sponsorship

[deadheading duck]

hi all

have been very successfully running my own company for about 2 and a bit yrs now, and this year we are going to turn in a very healthy looking profit.... my boffin-accountant has suggested doing some charitable donations of some sort to write down against tax. As someone who struggled for a long time being able to afford to train, I am considering offering an ATPL scholarship for a wannabe, and if it works out, making this an annual thing. Now before you all start emailing me CVs and stuff ...I only want to get an idea of how many would be interested, whether one ATPL scholarship or several offers of 100hr training bursaries or something like that would be better, any pointers as to how I should run it from those who have been through something similar etc.

thanks all to those who make helpful comments on this, and i really hope I can make it happen.

chris.

[Megaton]

No time to be cynical and all that but just before Christmas you were working for someone else: http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=1094662#post1094662

[deadheading duck]

Nothing wrong with being cynical, it's a boring Weds afternoon. That was a brief consultancy job, which I should never have taken in the first place (was being greedy for more money!!!), and left soon after that discussion. For those that know me, I still work pt. time for a public body in Wales, and most of the rest of my time running an IT company. If you are that worried about it, I can send you the accounts, but I was only trying to gauge the interest and level of work i would have to put in to make this happen!!!!

[oz01]

i'd be very interested!!!

[Megaton]

Good luck and a great idea. Hope it works. One thought for you: many aspiring pilots complete their frozen atpl and then run out of money. Left with 200-300 hrs they are unattractive to the airlines who seem to be looking for at least 500 hrs before they will consider you. You might wish to consider partial hr building arrangements for say 50 hr blocks. These could hopefully be arranged at some discounted rate?

[deadheading duck]

Thanks for that Ham - that was the sort of constructive help I was looking for to make this work. Having fallen at the financial hurdle before doing an ATPL, I don't know first hand what its like, but reading other posts on here etc, that sounds like a good idea. I'm not trying to work miracles with this, but hopefully I can help a few people achieve what I never managed.:D

[hasell]

Hi,
Yes a great idea.
Training bursuries to help hour build would be very useful.
Or perhaps awards to help partially fund ATPL studies.
ie I guess what I'm getting at is partial help to a few as opposed to helping one individual.

Just my 2p worth.

Regards.

Has.

[YYZ]

The more people willing to assist people in obtaining the licences the better, it is a huge financial undertaking by an individual.

I am a buyer by trade and I spend more in one hour than I need to fund my entire training, which is really depressing when I look at my financial affairs and realise I will be around 10,000 short.

Mr Bank manager will be getting a visit sometime soon:(

Unless of course the offer of sponsorship is open to the older wannabes?

As for suggestions, allot of people seem to manage up to the CPL & then stress over the cost of the IR, they scrape this together only to realise that they need to build more hours either on there own back or via an FI rating, either way more money is required, step in the knight in shining amour deadheading duck:}

I wish I could suggest a really good method for sponsorship but I can't, you money your decision.

Would not want to be the one ploughing through the applications of 1000's of wannabe's begging, it would be to upsetting turning down the majority.

Glad you have decided to give it a go though:ok:

[deadheading duck]

Thanks for the supportive comments... I want anything that goes ahead to be worthwhile - there's no point in giving 50hrs training towards an ATPL to somebody with a PPL, as although they'd be a step closer, they wouldn't actually have achieved any real goal. Stumping up the money for a full ATPL would only help one person, but it would be a big step forward for that person. Its a difficult decision!

If going down the ATPL route (which is what I've thought about) I would probably only invite applications from people who have done a PPL, and a GAPAN (or equivalent) aptitude test..... do people think this is a fair point of view???

[deadheading duck]

Ok....thanks to those who have contributed so far.

I have (and apologies for the quality, I have spent about 25mins on this in total!!!) put together a quick website for people to register their expressions of interest in receiving support.

If you wish, please fill the form in and email it to me, and around 15th August I'll start getting in touch with people who I want to do a full application & interview...

You can get at the site at www.atplfin.flyer.co.uk (http://www.atplfin.flyer.co.uk) .

If you have any queries, please let me know via the email listed on there, or post on here.

I won't be advertising this too much, as I think plenty of people will see it over the next few weeks, but please spread the word if you know of suitable people who would really benefit from this.

Thanks all, and good luck.

Chris.

[Danny]

I have been made aware of this thread and I'm concerned by the notion that someone is getting something for nothing.

Deadheading Duck, I'm sure your 'boffin accountant' would have explained to you that if you can legitimately claim a deduction as a business expense it merely reduces the amount of profit you make that would in turn be subject to tax. On the other hand, anybody can give away what they like provided it is not being done for the purpose of tax evasion. Please note the bold text.

The advice I have received, whilst not conclusive, would indicate that your 'sponsorship' would not be a legitimate tax deduction in the UK. Your 'donation' must be either a legitimate business expense (e.g. in staff training) or a donation to a registered charity.

Tax departments are not renown for philanthropic philosophies, especially if they can hook someone for tax evasion. The only thing you can be sure of is death and taxes. Sponsorship to help offset someone else's tax liability is a very iffy idea. Then of course, I'm not an accountant but I know a man who is!

[deadheading duck]

Danny - I have responded in a PM to you, which I hope clears the situation up.


Apologies to any who have been confused or worried by the tax situation I have described.... I have explained at length to Danny and nearly fallen asleep writing about tax, suffice to say it will be a charity which is set up to handle all the finances, and it is all above board and legal. I failed to describe the situation fully, and I should have known that would get people worried, and for that I am sorry.

If Danny & the management wish this thread to continue then so be it, otherwise maybe look out for some adverts in Flight & the like soon!

This is an opportunity I wish had been there for me years ago, and now that I am in the position of being able to offer it, I hope that I am able to.

Chris.

[la-knet]

"" there's no point in giving 50hrs training towards an ATPL to somebody with a PPL, as although they'd be a step closer, they wouldn't actually have achieved any real goal. Stumping up the money for a full ATPL would only help one person, but it would be a big step forward for that person. Its a difficult decision!""


Of course I wish I was sponsored for a full ATPL but I think it would be more interesting to help many peoples.
Because to be a step closer could be very important if you want to have a lend from your bank.
Did you never heard this: "You have no qualification, no experience, no licences..... why should we give you so much money for a project that you might be enable to achieve?"

When you have something like a CPL or even the ATPL theory, your bank becomes more friendly.

la-knet

[alexroberts]

Having just completed a Fr ATPL, I find like many others that there isn't much work easily available. Again constructive hr building seems to be the key.
All charity should look to create a self sustaining system, or else it will be continually required.
If there was a way to set up a system where people could hr build whilst actually achieving a purpose, ie air taxi, delivery etc.. as a non profit making organisation (charity) it would be able to compete for business very competitively.
I know this is not a complete solution, but with the many people here, we could easily come up with something. People getting experience in the operations side and organisation, would all be useful experience for us newbies.

[Obs cop]

Deadheading Duck,

A fantastic chance for Prooners to help in the establishment of a sponsorship scheme for which I think you should be supported.

I have to say that if you are looking to make it different there is one key area where burseries and sponsorships are missing. All of the current sponsorships have an upper age limit of 28 to 30 years of age, but this website is littered with people over 30 desperate for their last chance to get into aviation. Even in the current lean times, the youth of today have numereous schemes they can apply for, but even then they have time on their side to wait, be patient and keep applying.

Once you have reached your 30's the help dries up and not all of us are wealthy enough to re-mortgage of raise £35k or more to train.

IMHO a single scheme providing the scope for one over 30 to achieve a lifelong dream of an fATPL would be fresh and would seperate itself from the crowd.

Obs cop

[deadheading duck]

Thanks to all of those who have responded here, and made me aware via the website of their interest.

I am very intentionally not basing this around a particular age group... I want the ideal candidate to be the one who can get the most out of the training (the key I think has to be the ability to stand a good chance of securing a job at the end of it!).

I am also very willing to offer this opportunity to anybody across the world, it is not limited to the UK (I've had a few enquiries about this).

For those initially worried by all the talk about tax, the paperwork for establishing a charity to administer this is going to be filed this week.

In the meantime, please keep applying and make this worth my effort!!

Chris.

[sywell-flyer]

Has anyone had any feedback on this yet or been asked to go for an interview?

Thanks,

Sywell-Flyer

[Straightandlevel80kt]

I'm sorry. I've just had a look at the website, and this whole thing looks totally unprofessional.

What kind of a sentence is this to put into a proposal?:

"Any future offer is subject to contract, and the availability of finances to provide support (all i'm saying is, if the IT market crashes and the company goes bankrupt, don't expect to pay for your flying training as well!!!)."

--------------

We are not here to solve your tax problems or ease your conscience, so please don't go public raising people's hopes with half-hearted, ham fisted and frankly empty gestures of salvation, until you have something firm, transparent and secure in terms of a well presented, coherent and realistic business plan.

---------------
If you are genuine - and I suspect you are not - then I wish you well, but in this case I have the following thoughts to offer.

The reason many people are facing debt problems is because they didn't think things through properly before embarking on a loan/self-funded frozen ATPL. Easily done, and I nearly did it myself. It is not going to help the situation if you create yet another 'lure' to make people think someone will bail them out if they get stuck without a job after they qualify.

If you are going to make a difference, you need to focus your efforts. It is a complete waste of time and money to give lots of people a few hours, if you could fund one person from zero to FO. Follow the model of GAPAN scholarships.

I totally agree that candidates over the age of 28 need help. I am biased because I am 28 now, but certainly financial assistance at the lower end of the market would help, such as funding towards a CPL/ IR or Instructor Rating, from which you would have a foundation to hours build. You have not made it clear what career aspirations your candidates are likely to have. Are you trying to help people to get into the commercial airlines?

Finally, don't do this as one of several whimsical options to offset your tax. Do it because it is your passion and you really want to do this more than running your IT company. There are enough people p*ssing about with people's lives in this industry. We don't need more.

S&L

[bawbag]

Why set up a charity, when infact you could just give the money to GAPAN for them to do professional selection and you can go to the annual dinner for free champagne?

[BoraBora007]

Whats the name of your IT company?

[ATP_Al]

If this is genuine, then it's a great idea!

Most wannabes will have applied to several schemes which only sponsor one or two individuals, and some, myself included, will have narrowly missed out on one or more of the schemes and decided to go down the HSBC route instead.

I think helping several people is the way to go, providing that each successful applicant gets enough to achieve something productive. Perhaps it could be based on the Air League's Flying bursary scheme - you can apply for money to do whatever you want, but you have to explain what you want it for and why you should be selected.

Regards,

Al

[willow_79]

i'd be very interested

[Sweeney]

Has anybody received feedback regarding their application? deadheading duck wrote in an earlier post that he/she would be sifting through applications and contacting those chosen for full applications and interviews from 15 August.

Would be interested to hear from anyone with information as this sponsorship opportunity post seems to have gone very quiet ...

Sweeney

[sywell-flyer]

I still haven't heard anything either. I'm starting to get the feeling that it may not be all it seems :(

I have a couple of worried in that:

1. Someone I know has said that this kind of thing has been tried in the past whereby someone who wants to go through ATPL's sets up a charity to do so, receives a number of applications, including one of a friend, family member etc and then awards the sponsorship to the said friend or family member. Apparently this means that money can be saved in terms of tax either to the peron footing the bill or receiving the sponsorship (I'm not an accountant so I'm not sure how this would actually work!).

2. He also states that "As someone who struggled for a long time being able to afford to train, I am considering offering an ATPL scholarship for a wannabe, and if it works out, making this an annual thing." and also "I'm not trying to work miracles with this, but hopefully I can help a few people achieve what I never managed.". If you do a search for his tag name you will find a post stating "Hi everyone I'm a little bit pished today, cos its my 21st! If only you all worked in my office, there's cakes and donuts being shared around!!". That was in April this year. He seems to be contradicting himself by saying he has struggled for a long time to be able to afford to train yet says it is something he has never managed to achieve...at 21 why can't he do it now he has the money???

If it is legitimate then I apologise as this as an excellent opportunity but I'm starting to feel that something doesn't quite add up!

Thanks,

Sywell-Flyer

[BoraBora007]

Im afraid you have all been taken in by someone who was simply bored and had nothing better to do with his time.

Deadheading duck is talking rubbish.

If you look at his posts and put them together. He was 18 when he started his own IT company. He took a "brief consultancy" job on when he was 20 (I doubt they would hire consultants at that age) and he also works part-time in a "public body in Wales". All the while doing really well with his own IT firm, enough so to give money away to wannabe pilots".

Im sorry you guys wasted your time on this. I also think deadheading duck should have his IP banned from prrune forever.

I think the moderator should take note of this.

[philltowns]

Maybe he was trying to get an idea of what others put on their application forms. Not that that's an excuse by any standard.