Regulator fails Jetstar crew on safety

[Wirraway]

Mon "Melbourne Age"

Regulator fails Jetstar crew on safety
By Scott Rochfort
June 28, 2004

Jetstar may face delays with the launch of its fleet of Airbus 320s after the aviation safety regulator "failed" the Jetstar crew delivering the first of the aircraft from France.

Casting doubts on Jetstar's ability to bring its first A320 into service on July 20, Civil Aviation Safety Authority inspectors questioned the expertise of the budget airline's crew after it was flown from the Airbus factory to Melbourne on Monday.

"There were certain issues raised by us in relation to the operation of that flight which Jetstar are addressing," CASA spokesman Peter Gibson said.

CASA would not specify the problems, only to say they were not "show stoppers".

Despite Jetstar still being without the necessary air operators certificate (AOC) to put its A320s into commercial service, Mr Gibson said: "The process of upgrading the certificate to include the A320s is progressing satisfactorily."

Jetstar's present AOC only allows it to operate Boeing 717s.

Set to take delivery of 23 A320s by mid-2006, the 177-seat aircraft will gradually replace Jetstar's fleet of 14 125-seat Boeing 717s over the next two years and will form the backbone of the airline's plans to eventually expand beyond the east coast of Australia.

The airline's corporate relations manager, Simon Westaway, said he was confident the first Jetstar A320s would enter service by July 20.

When asked about the Jetstar crew being failed on the delivery flight, Mr Westaway said: "We think it's inappropriate to comment on matters between the regulator and the licence holder."

Jetstar is set to hold a series of "proving" flights for the aircraft out of Sydney this week. In order to obtain an AOC, Jetstar must prove it can carry out all the necessary procedures to safely operate a fleet of A320s; from flying, maintenance, keeping records and having adequately trained crew.

Virgin Blue encountered similar problems with its own launch four years ago, when it was forced to resubmit its AOC papers.

The first Jetstar A320 is slated for services from Sydney to the Sunshine Coast, and Sunshine Coast to Avalon airport near Geelong. Jetstar plans to add one A320 to its fleet each month, before using the aircraft to expand westward later in the year.

Already operating on 14 destinations along the east coast, Jetstar plans to use the A320 to open up new destinations such as Alice Springs, Ayers Rock, Darwin, Broome, Townsville and Adelaide after November.

There are suspicions Jetstar will eventually replace Qantas domestic services on lower yielding non-capital city routes dominated by holiday travellers. The launch of Jetstar one month ago has already seen Qantas pull out services to Hamilton Island, Proserpine and the Sunshine Coast.

Amid talk Qantas could one day just concentrate on routes with higher yielding business traffic (Sydney, Brisbane and Melbourne), the Centre for Asia Pacific Aviation's managing director, Peter Harbison, said: "Whether or not it comes [down to] capital city routes will be just a matter of playing it day by day."

But Mr Harbison predicted more cheap airfares, given Qantas's desire to claw back some of the 34 per cent market share Virgin has snared since the collapse of Ansett.

"I'm quite sure that Qantas has got the real intention to get their market share back to 80 per cent, or 75 per cent at least," he said.

Added to the huge amount of capacity coming into the market with the delivery of Jetstar's A320 fleet, Mr Harbison said there was no doubt the Qantas offshoot would need to offer discount fares to attract passengers.

==========================================

[Romeo Tango Alpha]

Interesting... VERY interesting!

Sort of corroborates a few things some have said PERHAPS.

I assume that the delivery flight of the inaugural A320 would HAVE to have been done by the A320 type specialist. Now, that'd be A.S would it not? :yuk:

[Kaptin M]

"[i]Jetstar may face delays with the launch of its fleet of Airbus 320s after the aviation safety regulator "failed" the Jetstar crew delivering the first of the aircraft from France.

Casting doubts on Jetstar's ability to bring its first A320 into service on July 20, Civil Aviation Safety Authority inspectors questioned the expertise of the budget airline's crew after it was flown from the Airbus factory to Melbourne on Monday.

"There were certain issues raised by us in relation to the operation of that flight which Jetstar are addressing," CASA spokesman Peter Gibson said.

CASA would not specify the problems,

[compressor stall]

WTF do journo's encourage that Harbison character.

What sort of informed intellectual comment is Whether or not it comes [down to] capital city routes will be just a matter of playing it day by day."

A self proclaimed consultant should ba able to offer predictive informed advice. Not some ar$e covering, bet hedging, wishy washy statement that a high school student could make up.

It's about as useful as a meteorologist saying "it will rain" to a farmer. :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[/RANT]

CS on another midnight linguistic tirade. :hmm:

[airsupport]

How surprising, NOT............ ;)

[itchybum]

Standing by for beaucoup ranting and raving by all the experts who know all about operating a jet but nothing about operating a jet airline. :zzz:

Can't wait for someone to suggest it wouldn't have happened if they paid them more. :hmm:

[Yorik Hunt]

Not necessarily itchy. Many have suggested that these guys should heve held out for more money thus creating a better bargaining situation for all pilots in Oz. But that doesn't really have much to do with this little hiccup, does it?

Keg has suggested previously that the major problem that QF pilots have with the Impulse pilots, is that they are acceptable to the QF Group only on an income which is significantly below the going rate. Well, now it comes back to bite them. If indeed these guys and gals were rejected by QF, then there remains a possibility that it was for a reason.

So this really has nothing to do with pay, but everything to do with standards. I know my family won't be jumping on a Jetstar flight for the forseeable future.

[Pete Conrad]

Spot on Yorik, Where's our mate Chucky?

[Mr Seatback 2]

Slightly confused guys, so bear with me...

1) Impulse gets purchased by QF to operate as Qantaslink, and now, Jetstar.

2) Whilst I know of some pilots who have applied to Qantas (and some have got in, some haven't), I doubt ALL have applied, in particular the 89-er's who are with us (and please, let's not go down the 89 road with this thread...)

3) Does calling these pilots 'John West rejects' actually achieve anything? No. So why bother? It's done - true, I don't necessarily agree with the agreement they made, but it's done.

4) Would there be the debate that there is about the altered Agreement if these guys were NOT part of the QF Group? QF would have used the T&C reached by these pilots as the benchmark for large-narrow bodied a/c anyway...whether or not they were part of the QF Group.

5) Aren't they in the process of reaching a Career Progression-style agreement where for every 6-ish commands, there's one for someone from QF and vice versa? Last thing I heard about their IPC and AIPA.

Guys - it's done. You need to move on and try to do the best with what's provided. Calling each other names only demeans the point you're each trying to make.

[Flyspray]

For goodness sake grow up you lot and stop your back stabbing.
If anyone has information regarding why this occurred then let them say so. The reasons for failure may be a lesson to the aviation community.
Otherwise just go away

[Yorik Hunt]

Flyspray. Nice post. Plenty to contribute yourself, not. This is a rumour network, isn't it? Thats what the name says? Then how about you allow a little discussion, without your own brand of censorship?

The fact that CASA has found reason that these people aren't operating correctly makes a fairly profound statement, doesn't it?

[Wizofoz]

Yorik,

(And YES I know I'm repeating myself, but then so are these clowns!)

Didn't CASA have a little to say about your mob when you parked one on the fairway?

And YES, it DID make a profound statement, one that's been largely ignored by egos like yours.

[QFandlovinIT]

how in the world would some CASA looser know even the front end of a jet, let alone critise the safety. Personally I would like to know the facts. But when you get some looser who never got out of GA (refer to DJ loosers) saying these things, hmmmmmmmm welll????

bring it on you bitches and scabs!!!! sont forget the loosers who could only get out of GA to DJ by paying for a job....

bring it!!!

and if my spelling is wrong who gives a toss, flying a 747 doesnt need grammer, it needs ANC!!!!

go figure.

[ys120fz]

QF and wanking it,

This has to be a wind up. Nobody could be THAT stupid.

If it's not, then it's no wonder that your mob parked a 747 on a fairway in BGK.
It's been said before, and no doubt it will be again. Just because a pilot was rejected by an airline doesnt mean he was not good enough. He was just not good enough on the day, that is out of the group of interviewees, he wasn't one of the top, or what the panel saw as the top. In another group he might stand out and the position would be quite different.

As well as that he may have had an off day in the sim and didn't fly the NDB approach well or something similar. Of course, a QF typoe like you would never have a bad day. Maybe a bad hair day, but not a bad day.

Now I've seensome awfully bad pilots who did get in, and some very good ones who didn't, so your logic is cocked up.

With your attitude it surprises me that they didn't knock yoju back because of a lack of maturity.
Spelling? You're right in that you don't need to be able to spell well to fly a 747, or a kite for that matter, but you do need a degree of intelligence and I'm not sure you possess much of that commodity.

[Kaptin M]

ys120fz, there`s no need to try to explain what you have to jerk-offs like QFandlovinIT - whom I sincerely doubt IS a QANTAS pilot.
He`s a wind-up merchant, trying to put QF pilots in a bad light.

But you`ve just GOTTA love his classicand if my spelling is wrong who gives a toss, flying a 747 doesnt need grammer...You would HAVE to have 2 dicks, QFandlovinIT:p

[FPV]

There is no doubt about it pal, you have just lifted your skirt and shown the world what a half wit you are. I pity the skipper that has to put up with your crap, on a pond hop. O yes I know, how is it I can tell you are an S/O or at best a F/O that slipped through the filters. Go figure………………………Don’t think about it for to long though my little buddy, I don’t want to read about you.

Arrrr that feels better.
:E

[Hugh Jarse]

flying a 747 doesnt need grammer, it needs ANC!!!! What's the African National Congress got to do with this thread?:}

But when you get some looserAs opposed to "Tighter":}

Chill, Mo-Fo's:cool:

ys120fz wrote:It's been said before, and no doubt it will be again. Just because a pilot was rejected by an airline doesnt mean he was not good enough. He was just not good enough on the day, that is out of the group of interviewees, he wasn't one of the top, or what the panel saw as the top. In another group he might stand out and the position would be quite different. I've written before that every airline believes it's recruiting process is the best. It doesn't mean it actually is. Fortunately, other airlines around the world prefer the qualities that another may not.;) and are just as "safe":ok:

It's a big world out there. Enjoy!

[Woomera]

Thank you Mr Jarse.

You're quite right of course, timing is everything, although may I make the observation that what may slip through the airline filters very rarely gets past the denizens of PPRuNe unscathed.:} :ok:

Was it Oscar Wilde (he gets blamed for nearly everything), GBS, it might have even been Danny or Rob, who said "let no turn go unstoned":p

[carpe_jugulum]

YorikHunt and QFandtuggingitlotsIT - what a pathetic pair of gutter snipes.

I don't recall there being any questions on the QF employment assessment tests regarding ones ability to correlate safe operation of a motorplane with income.

How disgraceful to suggest that any professional pilot would operate his/her aircraft less safely simply because the pay scale is lower than his/her peers.

If so, could you please suggest how much more you would like to be paid to stop leaving your aircraft doors behind at the aeorbridge - pornstar are doing iut much cheaper, and I doubt you will be able to compete.

mmmmmm

[Feather #3]

Apart from the press 'data', can anyone say what the hell CASA didn't like about the J* operation? They were there for 6 or so sectors.

There's an argument to say if there was someting they picked up, they should've got off on the spot and grounded the show??:rolleyes:

G'day ;)

[Yorik Hunt]

Well, thats not a very nice post carpe. BTW, isn't that a fish?

I don't recall suggesting that Impulse pilots intentionally operate their aircraft less safely than Qantas simply because they are paid less. In fact, if you go back and read my original post you will see exactly the opposite is true. There is nothing INTENTIONAL about it.

I have simply stated that they operate less safely because many of these pilots (not all!) have been rejected, for one reason or another. That doesn't mean that they dont try their best. It just means that their best isn't good enough.

Now you can run down the QF selection process all you like, but if just one of these chaps was turned down for a valid reason, and is now operating with Jetstar, then that makes the Jetstar operation less safe. There can be NO argument about that.

And the fact that the guys are acceptable only on a lower pay scale really stinks to high heaven. Or QCC perhaps.

[compressor stall]

QF must have changed its selection then Yorik. Last I heard it was 45 mins in a sim with one person, a bit of IQ stuff to see if you are a stable extrovert and a face to face chat with the odd tech qu thrown in.

Not a single opportunity to show how to perform under pressure of emergency, how to interact with other crew, how much you study and can recall relevant stuff, etc.

You cannot deduce that a person who misses out on QF is a less safe flying pilot as no QF pilot is assessed on safe flying ability.

Get over it.

BTW. There are many pilots out there who missed out on Cathay and are now in QF. So by your reasoning that makes QF less safe than Cathay?

[Yorik Hunt]

YOU need to read what I said over again CS. QF may not get it right ALL the time. BUT if they got it right just once, JUST ONCE, then that person now flying for Jetstar makes that operation less safe, and is an accident waiting to happen. And I happen to know a couple of the guys flying for Jetstar. Good blokes, but one of 'em is simply dangerous in an aeroplane. Frightens the crap out of me, knowing what could happen.

But what do I know, right? I'm a product of the QF system. According to most on here, that makes me a freak, a product of a flawed recruiting system who's arrogance means that we should really place our aerobridges on golf courses, because 99.9% of the time, thats where we park 'em. Spare me.

And further, I'm not allowed to say anything. Because if I stated this on qrewroom, I'd face vilification from anyone in management, because it highlights their incompetence, I'd face vilification from AIPA, because it highlights their incompetence, and I could kiss my otherwise satisfactory career goodbye. Problem is, I say my piece here and the lunatic fringe tell me that because I'm QF, I'm not worthy (somehow?).

So go ahead and ban me Woomera. Can't have people stating the truth here, can we?

[commander adama]

Yorik Hunt

You are a classic testament of a flawed system. You are an example of one who slipped through the net. I know your character and personality. Private School education (no offence to others I have it as well). Cadetship at a young age. Lived a sheltered life with no hard worn trail. Things came easy to you. So much so you developed your arrogance and you have deduced that you are somehow special to have had such an easy road.

You would not have the balls because you know you would be vilified and quite rightly so if you posted on Qrewroom. Do yourself and your collegues a favour and stop posting this garbage. I know a quite fair few ex Impulse drivers in your company who are average or the norm. Not outstanding but the norm and all are good blokes. You on the other hand, well I do not like your character and I am happy to know I do not even work with people that are like you.

And further, I'm not allowed to say anything. Because if I stated this on qrewroom, I'd face vilification from anyone in management, because it highlights their incompetence, I'd face vilification from AIPA, because it highlights their incompetence, and I could kiss my otherwise satisfactory career goodbye.

Well it isn't just management. Strange you admit everyone else is wrong but you are right.


Grow up and think before you post.

[Wizofoz]

QF may not get it right ALL the time. BUT if they got it right just once, JUST ONCE, then that person now flying for Jetstar makes that operation less safe,

And therefore if they got it wrong JUST ONCE, QF is therefore less safe, right?

(Actually, that explains a few things!! FORE!!)

[Yorik Hunt]

There's a perfect example of the lunatic fringe telling me how substandard I am - I must BE, because I would dare to critisise their organisation. Yet - here are those who would not have their own organisation logically critisised, doing their own critisising right back again. Hypocracy in the extreme.

adama. You are wrong there on every count of my background and heritage. You are correct though, I wouldn't have the balls to tell everyone on Qrewroom, because I wouldn't put my family through the sh1t that accompanies it. Thats logical and fair, right? So, if you think that, then you give us your name here, or even on Qrewroom if you think that is reasonable. No? Haven't got the balls, right? That makes it much worse that you would say such things of me, when you clearly haven't the character either.

Wiz? Your logic defeats comprehension, however because Jetstar is unfortunately part of the QF group, then Yes, QF is less safe. But I wouldn't have a problem with putting my family on QF mainline. Jetstar - NO WAY! And we are back to the golf course analogy? No wonder it is very hard to respect you lot.

[HANOI]

And Yorik

Your user name is offensive , how long did it take you to think that one up.
BTW...a spell checker might help you

[Yorik Hunt]

Thank you Hanoi. My brother Rex thanks you too. Blame my parents.

[FPV]

Yorik,
There is a common trend here. May I suggest you pull your head in a grow up.:yuk:

But what do I know, right? I'm a product of the QF system. According to most on here, that makes me a freak

No no little Yorik, that doesn’t make you a freak. But the rest of your bleating does.

[Watchdog]

'Your a'
I see you've created your new alias - now all of 8 posts. Which one of the banned ones are you?
Whoever you are, you are a whimp. You preach from a position of anonymity here but not game to repeat same when you are identified on qrewroom.
If "your family" (not that I think you'd have any offspring) are anything like you, I'm sure J* wouldn't want put up with them anyway
:p :p :p :p

[Angle of Attack]

Geez, come on don't waste your time being baited by this Yorker, he could be a QF guy he could not be, either way he just feeds on your bites. By the way he sounds I doubt he is in any airline, just wasting his time here, remember "As these are anonymous forums the origins of the contributions may be opposite to what may be apparent."

Anyway it was about a jetstar flight , any info on that?

[Flyspray]

Like I said before. All back stabbing and dribble.
Is there any one out there that can state,or rumour if you like, as to what occured to cause this embarassing failure.

[Yorik Hunt]

Actually, I couldn't give a rats about bites from clear lunatics. I am interested in making a point.

And that point is this - Jetstar (read IPG) is an organisation which has a clear intent of undermining pay and conditions in Australian aviation. But the side effect is that the airline is dangerous.

Watchdog, OK then my friend. You first. Who are you then? Or are you a 'whimp'?

[Watchdog]

Yorik, I know you cant respond anymore on pprune, but if you'd like to start a post on Qrewroom mainline titled YORIK...I will respond to you!

Flyspray,
quite right, this post is off at a tangent.

I think that what Simon Westaway has stated is fair in that J* shouldn't be commenting about what occurred between the licence holder (ie pilot) and the regulator. I find it a little inappropriate that CASA public relations even issues media statements on this....for example if Chief Flying Instructor Joe Bloggs busts an MDA on his CASA I/R renewal does this go to CASA media for publication? No! It could even be differing viewpoints or even a personality conflict between the officer and the candidate rather than a performance standard.
Different story if an operator, say, doesn't carry out service bulletins eg. B767 engine pylon crack inspections etc

[Time Bomb Ted]

Watchdog

You said "I find it a little inappropriate that CASA public relations even issues media statements on this."

Maybe CASA was getting in first before the J* spin doctors changed the story from J* ops not being up to snuff, to a delay by CASA.

I know which one looks worse for J*.

TBT

[Flyspray]

Alas poor Yorik etc.
Page one nearly gets it right re A. S. so I hear!! But now I also hear one and the same has gone to pick up the next delivery??
Am I right or am I right?
What was the problem??

[Taya]

I have it from good authority that it wasn't A.S. He passed his check yesterday with CASA.

[Obie]

Now, you blokes are flying airplanes, right?

But you can't spell wimp, right?

God help us all! :confused:

[radnav]

It is a matter of record that there are pilots working for QANTAS now who have in the past been found unacceptable by QANTAS.

These same pilots, who qualified for their long service leave not so long ago, have managed to do the job just fine as well as getting paid very handsomely.

Are their some who are really suggesting that it would now be dangerous to board a QF 737 just because the pilot was at one time rejected by QANTAS.

Utter rubbish!!

[Capt Claret]

Yorik,

With luck you'll be first out the door when the IPG guys take all the mainline jobs. :hmm:

[commander adama]

Damn

I should have realised Yorik is Chuck. This bloke aint in the profession. Well put he's a wind up. Ignore the twit.

[Wizofoz]

commander,

The sad and worrying thing is that Chuck=Yoric, and I think he IS in QF and believes the drivel he comes out with...

[Keg]

What I find paticularly interesting about watching these petty exchanges is that for the most part, some of the regular QF blokes (myself, Lancer, Johnny Utah, Cutest of Borg, etc) will at some stage tell the perpertrator that he or she is behaving like a moron and to grow up. Whichi is what I would normally post now to Yorik.

What is galling though is that Whiz, adama and a few others sink to the same low level and I'm yet to see any of the J* or IPG pilots pick them up on it! :(

Wiz, most QF drivers have acknowledged QF1 and made internal steps to work our guts out to ensure that it doesn't happen again. Perhaps it's time for you to let it go too. Only the 'idiots' keep bagging out J* and your responses such as 'fore' etc, put you in EXACTLY the same boat and you come across exactly the same way. Yorik is behaving like an idiot. Your and adama's responses are equally inane. Don't point the finger without taking a good hard look in the mirror.

Finally, you and adama ARE being hypocritical. You keep sinking the boot into QF drivers with references to doors and golf courses and yet I don't recall either of you posting your name on Qrewroom. You can't nail me with that one either. I'm well and truly out of the closet on that with a lot of people actually calling me 'Keg' on Qrewroom. Do a search for it if you have the access. I've got no secrets and I'm also a firm believe of not saying anything on here that I wouldn't say to someone's face. Alas, it looks like some of you don't follow suit.

As an aside, how easy would it be to go tit for tat as to each others recent incidents. You mention QF 1, I mention landing on a highway, you mention doors, I mention doors, you mention something else, I mention retracting flaps after t/o, you mention same thing, blah, blah, blah. It's crap and you guys contribute to it and I'm appalled that more of your own don't 'call' you on it. QF have some idiots, I don't ever remember you guys admitting the same thing about J*. Again, that long hard look in the mirror because it appears you guys have the superiority complex you generalise with an accuse ALL QF drivers of having.

Shame to see people who consider themselves professionals behaving as children.

[Wizofoz]

Hi Keg,

Point, to some extent, taken. I have never had issue with your attitude, and know the likes of Yorik are nothing but an embarrasment to you.

You seem to be suggesting, however, that the likes of dear Yorik should simply go unchallenged and be ignored. I don't agree. It is possible we are sometimes being sucked in by a troll, but, as I said, I actually think Chuck/Yorik IS a serving line QF guy spouting carp about J* as he sees himself as a superior being having gotten into QF, and any one who hasn't as "Unsafe". YOU know that's c*** I know that's c*** and I don't think it is inappropriate to point out to idiots like this that even QF guys are mortal and capable of error.

As to Qroom, I thought it was only available to QF drivers? I fly for a well known LCC in Britain!

In any case, my identity is quite widely known here, though I have no idea who you are. Does anonimity make my points any less valid?

As for "Letting QF1 go", isn't the whole point to keep it firmly in mind and make sure that the kinds of attitudes that led to it (and, in my opinion are being shown by the likes of Yorik) are challenged at every opertunity?

[Yorik Hunt]

Well, I'm having fun! How 'bout you blokes?

IPG guys take all the mainline jobs

Claret's hit the nail on the head here. This is the problem. The company clearly has this in mind. QF domestic will be gone soon enough. Replaced by Jetstar. Pay and conditions reduced to rubble. And the Jetstar pilots are running around like company lap dogs encouraging the process. Safety is out the door.

The other problem is that guys like Keg, (no disrespect meant here Keg) will appease the Jetstar guys because it's poltically correct. Sorry Keg, politically correct is fine, but at some stage you gotta have your say. And this is mine.

[commander adama]

Keg

Shame shame shame

I have never had a dig at QF pilots. Go check my posts. I am careful not to label them and sink to the level of the 2 forementioned imbeciles.

[Yorik Hunt]

Not having a dig at QF pilots? Try this on for size. Not only a hypocrit but a liar too!

classic testament of a flawed system

And thats just from this thread! You are telling ALL QF pilots their system is flawed, and therefore they are too! Try doing a search of all of your posts. You are by far the most abusive, abrasive and obnoxious person to post on Pprune.

[commander adama]

And that is an atatck on the pilots???

You are by far the most abusive, abrasive and obnoxious person to post on Pprune.

You are kidding me. Coming from you.

You are telling ALL QF pilots their system is flawed, and therefore they are too!

That is your deduction not mine.

Look at life. Every system has a flaw. Just look at yourself. Where in hell did you come from? You are the product of an upbringing gone totally wrong.

[Pete Conrad]

Yorik, your on a no win battle mate, probably should just let assdama and his bunch of merry men find out the hard way. The transition from 717 to A320 will not be as easy as those pecker heads think.

Keg, I see where your coming from, but at the end of the day, management does not give a rats.Yeah, they know who you are, most of us do, so what. Had a 767 captain in the jumpseat yesterday, by and large the guys have alot of misgivings about our ex Impulse monkeys.

It's not whether someone runs an aeroplane off a runway, retracts flap, nearly lands on a highway etc, its whether the systemic problems that caused that to happen and the culture which operates there can be changed as a result.

Have to say it, and I know it's going to come across wrong to the likes of commander assdama et al, but QF introduced the Boeing 737-800 and recently the A330 with minimal problems, this I believe is testament to QF, I don't see QF as a flawed system.

[commander adama]

And then you woke up. Second row of a Gruman Tiger don't count as a jump seat Pete.

[Watchdog]

Pete Conrad:
Why would the transition from a 717 to an A320 be a difficult transition? Both are glass, fadec, fms machines. It would be easier than from a Fokker 50 to an A320 like we used to do?
No "8 year boy" old answers please!
:ok:

[Pete Conrad]

Ahh, here we go, assdama and his PPL fantasies, and of course watchdog, the only man on Pprune that has nothing better to do than sit back and wait to target people that get under his old wrinkly skin.

Watchdog, are you that individual that left Impulse to go to AN, then somehow ended up back at Impulse? If you are, then that really does explain alot.

Oh and assdama, your spelling is attrocious man. I think your little bum hole is chapped coz you didn't get into QF isn't it? You fail the verbal reasoning section did you?

[Romeo Tango Alpha]

It seems par for this course to be perfectly honest. Same tiring people continually attack the minute someone has a thought different to what they are brainwashed into thinking. There is a BIG chip on a lot of posters shoulders here - the continual ATTACK ATTACK, your'e wrong, ATTACK mode.

Let's put this plainly. I'll call a scab a scab - always will. No amount of censuring from a moderator, or banning me will change that. I'll call an Opportunist an Opportunist. I'll say that standards here have dropped significantly, and that is known around the world.

Yet, there will be the vocal minority that will get offended, whinge and moan, and then whoop it up like little children when the person who had the brains and guts to think for himself, outside the box, get's banned. The Usual Suspects here that whinge and bitch until the poster is banned are JUST as offensive, just as obnoxious, yet it seems they stay in the sand pit, like spoilt children. "This is our sand box, complete with all the cat crap, so piss off". Well, have it your way, but be willing to accept a DIFFERING OPINION!

You all berate others as children - I think it high time a LOT of you looked in the mirror, got the shock you deserve, and learn some decency!

Moderator, ban me, delete me, whatever. At this stage, I just couldn't give a flying fig. If this is what professional pilots have resorted to in Australia, all I can say is the twats can have it!

Like I said, par for the course, and what we have come to expect from a lot of them...

[bombshell]

Watchdog

I will not say that they all will fail the transition, but most people I know who have gone Boeing/MD to Airbus, have found the course difficult. The main reason seems to be that the way of "thinking" in Airbus with regards systems and procedures etc, is a lot different from Boeing/MD. (No slanging off of which is better).
I dare say that a lot of the Jet* boys will find the same.

[LetsGoRated]

Pete

The transition from 717 to A320 will not be as easy as those pecker heads think.

What the hell are you going on about?? Dont know anyone who has had problems with this "transition." YOU are the only one who seems to consider it difficult. Maybe the fact that you look at the A320 as an extreme array of complex wizardry, says something about you.....you know, like you are incompetent yourself!! Like you find flying aeroplanes difficult!! Like you are NOT a pilot!!!
BTW do you have any idea of the technology up the front of the little 717?? Why dont you ask a JQ pilot to to enlighten you to the realm of REAL modern aircraft........you would obviously be amazed how far aviation has come in recent years. :ok:

[commander adama]

LetsGoRated

You have hit the nail on his stupid head. He is not a profesional pilot. He has no idea.


Had a 767 captain in the jumpseat yesterday, by and large the guys have alot of misgivings about our ex Impulse monkeys.

He is a dreamer. He makes up this dribble. Pete. Go get some PPL lessons. You are not qualified to comment on flying a jet.

[Yorik Hunt]

Given that this thread has degenerated into nothing more than a squabble, I might as well continue it!

Adama, why is it that anyone who disagrees with you, or has the tumerity to harbour a different opinion, is automatically 'not a pilot', or at least not one who fly's the big jets, like you?

Your arrogance is astounding, almost as astounding as your ignorance.

Believe me, adama, Pete fly's a bigger jet than you and his pay cheque is certainly much bigger. And same with most on these forum's. So please cease the crap about whether someone couldn't be a pilot simply because their opinion is different to yours.

I guess you are right, Pete. They won't learn. They won't admit to contributing to the ruination of domestic flying in Oz. But it gets it off my chest.

[commander adama]

Yorik

Your intellect and integrity are displayed in your user name. You and ya silly little mates do not contribute facts but attack the professional ability of a group of pilots who do a fantastic job of operating an airline. To even comprehend that you and your little mates pilot a jet would be like letting a couple of children run a lolly shop. You would make a mess of it.

So do yourself a favour go and reading Handling the Big Jets, get a Jet Job then come back and then maybe just maybe you could contribute instead of ill informed vitriol.

[Pete Conrad]

It's better to let them believe what they want to believe. For a group of individuals that went from sleeping in 717's on Hobart overnights to where they are now, it's no wonder that they have attitude problems.

assdama, ol buddy ol pal, I progressed past PPL many moons ago little man, you however haven't progressed past watching Battlestar Galactaga.

It's a bit like the QF mainline guy walking up to the QFlink building at Mascot copping the "usual" diatribe you get off these morons about the QF culture being too much for them to handle, it's a bit rich coming from a group of pecker heads that come from an airline that didn't have a seniority system, you got promoted on the 1900 depending on how far, in assdama's case anyway, his tongue was up the bottom of the senior guys.

There is nothing too technically challenging about the A320 that I was aware of, I can refer to the Airbus FCTM and operating manuals vol 1 and 2 that I have here if you need clarification LGR and assdama.

assdama - retard, retard, retard.

[Yorik Hunt]

You can't read, can you adama? Go find someone who can explain my above post to you, then try to post an intelligent reply.

Fantastic job? Must display incredible dedication, because you certainly don't do it for the pay.

Better tell QF that children are in their lolly shop, eh? In fact the chief pilot's office is located on QCC3. Want his telephone number?

Now adama. A straight question to you. Have YOU been rejected under the QF recruiting process. YES or NO?

[commander adama]

Pete

No need to pull out vol 1 and 2 of the idiots giude to flying an a/c. Let it rest and leave it up to the big boys. Once again Pete ill informed rubbish.

There is nothing too technically challenging about the A320 that I was aware of, I can refer to the Airbus FCTM and operating manuals vol 1 and 2 that I have here if you need clarification LGR and assdama.

Wake up son. You have been dreaming ofr far too long. You make me laugh.

Better tell QF that children are in their lolly shop, eh? In fact the chief pilot's office is located on QCC3. Want his telephone number?

Read my post. What are you on about.

[Pete Conrad]

assdama - you thickhead, you quote.

No need to pull out vol 1 and 2 of the idiots giude to flying an a/c. Let it rest and leave it up to the big boys. Once again Pete ill informed rubbish.

I guess that means, that YOU as an idiot, will have no problem learning about the A320. Can't wait to see the training bill for a moron like you. LOL!!!!!

Sorry assrama - I mean assdama, I was just saying there is nothing too challenging bout the A320,didn't expect you to get your panties in a knot over it. Your a lot dumber than you sound.

When you say leave it to the big boys, I presume that you mean leave it to the big boys at Impulse do you? LOL!!! Now that is very very funny!!

Poor M.W....he has his work cut out with spadgers like you assrama.

[HANOI]

Woomera

Can't you do something about these fools

[commander adama]

keep it going Pete

Flightsim is becoming more interactive. It will be like the real thing. Not the Piper Arrow you dream about. Volumes volumes I can bloody quote made up volumes or sourced volumes.

[Pete Conrad]

aww, come on thumpa, I mean assrama, I mean assdama - you have enough difficulty quoting the english language, let alone quoting a manual.

Heres a thought assdama - lay off the cough medicine man, really dude, I'm worried about you.

Your comments AND reactions are like your lower intestine assdama - stinking and loaded with danger.

[Flyspray]

Helloooooo!!
Dribble dribble dribble.
I say again does anyone know why Casa failed Jetstar?

[slice]

If only I could sell tickets to this thread !!!:}

[commander adama]

Peat you stink

Just try a little harder. But you may have to change your attitude. Flying Flightsim 2000 is not the same as the big stuff. However handling the big jets could be exciting reading for you. Grab some manuals and pretend your flying the big stuff. But hey not all of us end up flying a nice shiny jet.

[Yorik Hunt]

To be honest, adama, I really don't think you have been rejected by qf. You wouldn't have got your foot in the door to begin with. By the childish way you write, I think it's pretty clear that you dont even work for jetscab.

You clearly can't read, or you are just plain ignorant. If indeed you are in the cockpit of an aeroplane, well, then I'm very frightened. I thought our industry is going down the crapper - and YOU are living proof.

Flyspray - Yes I know why CASA failed Jetscab. It's simple. They are dangerous, both in the air and on the ground. It's just a matter of time before something bad happens.

[commander adama]

Yorik

You are an amazing person. My attacks are directed at you and Peat only. You wish such ill feeling and vitriol towards a group of nearly 200 pilots. Ok then all 200 have a problem but you and your little mate are normal.

Come on.

You and your little mate are revolting. You 2 have obviously failed miserably to get anywhere in your chosen field. That must be the only reason why you harbour such hate and jealousy. Rember they fly the jets and will get new A320's. You 2 well you fly flightsim and dream on. I know who the winners are.

Have a lovely evening. And remember you do not fly the jets. No!

LMAO

[carpe_jugulum]

This is riveting stuff. Wonderful to see such scintillating repartee.

Conceited creatures such as Yorik will never see reason, but for those of you who do, please don't forget that a lot of so called QF 'rejects' are flying around in QF coloured aircraft.

As far as the fare paying public are concerned, they are buying the same safety standard regardless of how the crew were selected for their job.

[Yorik Hunt]

Adama. Thats a nice post mate. I mean really. Thats good. Thats the first time yet where you haven't called someone a childish name, or thrown a bit of a tanty and told the big W to close the thread!

But I gotta tell ya mate. Most mainline pilots have serious reservations about Jetstar pilots. Thats 2200 pilots all together. Even if only half are worried about you, thats 1100 pilots. I guess that the truth will come out in the future vote. I can almost guarantee you that it will be voted down. I will be most satisfied.

You stay on your 320 (read 717) on your sad pay. Try and stay out of the trees. Have a nice evening too!

[Woomera]

Okay Ladies,

I can see a few prospective banees here.

Mellow out, or you'll all find youselves in the sin bin.

This thread is finished.:mad: