AAC selection (e3)

[Dubford5]

Hi, i hope someone can help by passing on some advice on what i could/should be doing before applying for selection to the AAC.

I have served one year since my commissioning and so have another year to go before i am eligible to apply for the pilots cse.

I passed OASC and flying grading while at Sandhurst but did not get through the interview. I have a PPL and fly TMG regularly, although flying experience didn't seem to matter on my last interview.

Does anybody have any words of wisdom or recommend things i could be doing to increase my chances this time around.

All advice gratefully received.

[Jeep]

Dubford,

You should get in touch with your nearest AAC Regiment/Sqn/Flt and arrange to spend a week/few days with them. During that period you will find out whether a. you are still interested and b. more up to date information than you can by reading. The point of contact in each of the units will vary, but you can't go wrong with talking to the RQHI/SQHI/Flt QHI, they are normally approachable (normally). Before you do anything though, apply for the course and get dates for your selection. As someone who used to host those kinds of visits, I made it a priority that said chap was really interested, and not just after a quick jolly.

Hope that helps.

PS if you can't find the correct phone numbers, you need not apply for the course.

[Dubford5]

Thanks for that jeep.

Am out the country for 6 months or so but will try and arrange a visit to Dishforth on my return.
Have done the rest of the selection so assume my next hurrdle is an interview/board.
How much influence does the chap hosting the visits have on the overall selection?

I don't suppose you know the number of officers who are currently being selected from other cap badges?
Is there are quota? Are other cap badges getting Apache? What are the chances to transfer after a tour?


Thanks again.

[potcivvy]

I am an E3 officer in the AAC and have had an absolutely brilliant time, but I have been fortunate with postings!
The E3 system is about to change quite drastically. When you apply for the APC you will also be assessed for transfer to the AAC and only if you are deemed suitable on both counts will you be accepted for the course. Upon completing the APC you will then be offered a transfer to the AAC as well as receiving your wings, instead of waiting the 1 year at RD and then applying that is the system in place now. So if that is what your desired endstate is then the new system should be very beneficial to you. It would also mean that you would stand as much chance of flying AH as anybody else as you would be AAC anyway! Double bonus!
However, you must be aware of the limited flying opportunities as an officer in the AAC. I did not find out until half way through the course and it is this and only this that has forced me to leave army aviation. You will complete the APC and come out the other end as an AAC officer and very likely to go straight onto AH. You will be a relatively senior captain as an E3 officer and will therefore complete 1 flying tour (2-3 years) before being directed into a staff job. The flying opportunities are minimal and the focus for the AAC is to nurture it's officers in order to push them up the chain into influential positions within Bdes and Divs. If this is your bag then great but it is the cause of much debate and frustration within the captain fraternity at the moment. The spec aircrew are the SNCOs/WOs and they are very good at it, but if you really want to concentrate on flying as an officer then look to the other services. That is the situation at the moment, it may well change by the time you get in.

In a nutshell, flying jellywopters in the AAC is fantastic fun and I have absolutely no regrets. Great bunch of people and some good new kit coming into service. But just be aware of the limited flying opportunities. Good luck!

[Dubford5]

Thanks for that potcivvy.
I joined the army with the desire to fly helicopters although i know as an officer it will only be for a short period of time.

Am now 26 and OASC results rule out other services so this is my only chance to acheive my goal.

Was not aware of the new transfer rules, if that is the case when i apply then it is ideal.

Does anybody know how many officers the AAC are selecting this way as opposed to DE from Sandhurst?

[115%Tq]

No more Ruperts please, they are already messing things up.

[Eagle 270]

Am now 26 and OASC results rule out other services so this is my only chance to acheive my goal.

I was under the impression that pass results were the same for each service? Rotary world anyway. You almost make it sound as though it's a booby prize.

[Dubford5]

Is certainly not a booby prize!!
Have seen a bit more of army aviation in my year after commissioning and would love to be a part of it.

With regard to scores the Army does require a
lower pass score. The RAF require you to pass Fast jet standard regardless of any desire to go rotary.

Any more words of wisdom or advice on promotion prospects
in the AAC would be great.

[Mosspigs]

Dub,

I read your post very carefully and as an E3 myself, there are a few things that you need to be aware of.

Firstly, if this is what you want to do, don’t let anyone talk you out of it. Some E3 Officers, like me, pay for their wings with the sacrifice of their career, as life with the AAC either doesn’t turn out how they wanted or the drop in responsibility does not further their career. That said, knowing what I know, I’d do the same again!

Secondly, don’t wait until you are eligible before you put your papers in. The wording in the DCI actually states that you can’t start pilot trg until 2yrs RD. Doesn’t state you can’t apply!! Saves a bit of time.

Your age at the moment may not seem a factor, but should be taken into consideration. Assuming you are successful and you wait your year. There may be a hold before Barkston. Assuming all goes well you should expect a minimum of 64 trg weeks. Add on leave conversion etc, you’ll be looking at 2 yrs (29yrs old). Then you’ll be a gash pilot without portfolio for at least 6 months (consolidation period). For an Officer you at 29 yrs old, your OJAR will state you have less responsibility than a 21yr old Pl Comd. It may be 3 years before you get a descent level of responsibility.

The possibility of going straight to AH is limited once again due to age. Return of service is very important and therefore, the AAC will want to get a good 2-3years flying out of you. The AH conversion is about 6 months long (over and above pilots course), therefore it may not be in their interest. That said, both the Lynx and particularly the Gazelle will need pilots and the variety available to those platforms is immense.

The current requirement for E3 is about 3-4 a year. They are over subscribed of qualified applicants to a factor of 3. This means competition is going to be fierce. To stand out from the crowd you’ll have to understand the future of the AH. To best do this, you’ll need to speak the horse’s mouth. Get in touch with OC 653Sqn at MW and find out about the projection of the AH.

Once all of the above is considered – fill out ANNEX J TO CHAPTER 43 AGAIS Vol 2 and stay in balance.

Happy to talk further outside of the forum if needed.

Good luck

p.s. If you joined the Army to fly, why not try the RAF again. That is their primary business after all. You should be a Officer first, pilot second in the AAC.

[I_stood_in_the_door]

Dubford,

Grow some chebs and flowing blonde locks. Chow down on the QFI and your in.

lfogootfw

isitd

:mad:

Sadly I didn't do any of the above, hence a failed chickenhawk man. Damn teeny weeny airways!

:}

[potcivvy]

Dubs

Do not contact OC 653 Sqn, he will not be too impressed! 653 Sqn is a Lynx Sqn at Wattisham and a damn fine one too. Pink skin where it counts.

[CatpainCaveman]

Mosspigs If you joined the Army to fly, why not try the RAF again. That is their primary business after all. You should be a Officer first, pilot second in the AAC

Erm, how can I put this - all the pilots and navs in the RAF are also officers. It's not like we let the junior airmen go flying just because they've got a PPL.

When I signed on for the Queen's shilling I also looked at AAC as well as RAF and I was told that if I failed the aptitude tests then the AAC would have a look at me, but if I failed the Officer selection board then my chances of passing the RCB would be slim.

Whatever service you are, the selection boards look for leadership and officer potential. Don't think that just because we aren't green and don't shout a lot that leadership isn't important in the RAF, we are all still officers first and foremost. And if you don't like that, then that's what the airlines are for!

Edited for being a biff first time round!

[Mosspigs]

Capt Caveman,

So let me get this right. You walked into the Careers Office and said, "Hi I would like to be an Officer in the RAF" And not, " I want to be a pilot." The differences between the 2 services are massive! One similarity though is that despite what your post says, AAC selection requires you to pass aptitude tests. :\

I don’t even think you believe your own argument. :ugh:

Dubs,

Potcivvy is right, I apologise. I meant 673 Sqn at MW. 50 knees to chest for me.

[Dubford5]

Thanks again for the help guys.
I believed my OASC score had ruled me out for the other services, but will certainly get that confirmed.

Mosspigs don't get me wrong i love being an Army officer, i just wish i could get to fly as well!

I will get the paperwork in as soon as i can.

Cheers for all the help and hope i haven't started a topic that will degenerate into too much banter!:ok:

[CatpainCaveman]

So let me get this right. You walked into the Careers Office and said, "Hi I would like to be an Officer in the RAF" And not, " I want to be a pilot."

No Mosspig, I along with many others did walk into the AFCO and ask to be a pilot.

However I was under no illusions that to make it as a pilot I would first have to get my commission. One of the best pilots I had ever seen at the time, and still have ever seen, who would fly rings round almost anybody here without breaking sweat whilst managing to finish the Times crossword on short finals, wasn't accepted because he lacked the pre-requisite officer qualities. Hence I'm here sitting in RAF Lincolnshire and he's now flying for an airline earning twice as much for half the stress!

As for the rest of your argument ...... did you actually bother to research the aptitude tests at Cranditz befire you applied??? If you did, you will realise that the point I made is valid.

The RAF and AAC both put their candidates through the aptitude tests, but the individual test scores are weighted differently for each service, as per the different role requirements. Which means if you failed the aptitude for the RAF there is still a chance of flying with the army. But fail to meet the RAF officer selection criteria and you will probably also fail the RCB. Therefore, you still need to be an officer first and a pilot second to get anywhere close to the top of the career ladder in the RAF, which contradicts your original statement.

Oh and there we are back at the beginning of a very simple statement. But in case you still don't understand it, in very simple terms, no commission in the RAF means no driving in the RAF. Do I need to explain any further Mosspig? :ugh:

Dubford - Why not think about a transfer if you want to spend more time flying a cab than a desk? Could get some interesting flying and certainly more time in the cockpit than in the Army where you might expect to be booted upto Head Office or Regt HQ as the Adjt after a tour (or 2 if you're lucky). And with the way things are looking - mobile, expeditionary forces etc etc, SH/rotary looks like the way ahead for the next few years. If you've got your commission there's no reason not to at least look at it.

Alternatively, if you're set on the Army way of life why not push for an exchange tour with the RAF? See what we are like for a couple of years, get some exra hours under your belt and then make a decision. Have seen plenty of your chaps around the bazaars do just that.

[Leprechaun]

When being a Pongo get's you down and the crabs are doing their usual! There's always that sweetest of options!



FLY NAVY :ok:

[potcivvy]

Dubs, just another observation after watching some of the usual inter-service chest beating that so often gets in the way of a reasonable query!
If you do decide to go AAC as an E3 you will have absolutely no hope of doing one of the exchange tours, they are usually for the direct entry AAC young guns so do not get your hopes up about that. That applies to RAF, Navy, Long Look, etc.

It sounds like you are keen so why not go for it. Get qualified as a rotary pilot and enjoy your first flying tour. Once you are in the club and done some flying then your priorities may change and you may be ready to skip flying for a desk job. If not then the options are there to continue flying in the AAC (QHI, ETPS), however, they are very difficult to get on. Or you could look elsewhere to fly, i.e. the RAF, RN or elsewhere in the commonwealth. It is all alot easier once you are a qualified service pilot. I speak from experience, I have completed 2 flying tours as an E3 and am about to go elsewhere to fly. It can be done.

Good luck.

[Dubford5]

Thanks again everyone for some really useful information.

Have just been watching AAC and RAF RW kicking up some sand.

One day!

Cheers.;)