Mbeki flies in opulence while people are starving

[Deanw]

From the Letters section of the Star:

Mbeki flies in opulence while people are starving
June 22, 2004

In President Thabo Mbeki's state of the nation address, he spoke of the fight against poverty.

He must have forgotten that 12 months ago he purchased a R500-million Boeing BBJ, so he could jet around in sumptuous luxury. Fitting out the interior alone cost R100-million.

This expenditure cannot be justified when millions live in informal settlements and 40% of the workforce are unemployed.

The reason for this indulgent purchase, we were told, was that existing aircraft operated by the SAAF's VIP Squadron were not up to requirements. Among others the fleet includes a Falcon 50 and Falcon 900 tri-jets which have intercontinental capability. These are some of the most expensive jets available to major corporations for worldwide operations, but apparently not good enough for our president.

A suitable alternative to the Falcons would have been one of the specially converted Boeing 727-Super 25s, which provide presidential comfort with intercontinental capability. These superb aircraft can be had for R30- to R60-million depending on specifications. This would have been a far less expensive alternative to the new BBJ.

With the present level of tax income of R300-million per annum, it is clear that Mbeki feels he has a mandate to spend taxpayers' money as he pleases, without consideration for those less fortunate members of our society who don't have income.

An even less expensive solution to the president's problem could have been found if he had the sense to use some of SAA's under-utilised equipment, one of the Boeing B747 SPs.

These are due to be sold off now, for little money in Jumbo terms - less than $2-million each.

The long range SP - it can fly from Joburg to Washington non stop - would have been the ideal aircraft for the president.

The upper deck could have been converted for his exclusive use and the balance of seats in luxurious business class on the main deck could have been retained for the use of his entourage.

The cost would have been less than R5-million and the aircraft could have stayed in service - there are still three available from SAA. This would have saved the taxpayer R495-million.

Anthony Howard
Aviation Consultants SA, Lanseria

[Engineer]

Another African president gains at the expense of others.

Can remember back in the late 90s when Rawlings of Ghana acquired a jet under dubious conditions.

Nice to see the 21st century has brought no changes to the continent. Would imagine that SA is on the same course as Zim went.

[George Tower]

With SAA retiring the 747 classics it would be damn sight cheaper to use of one those. But alas when you're an African president - being prudent with the finances doesn't come into it.

If Mbeki had one of the 300 series he could even boast that its bigger than Airforce One. May be the pi$$ing contest at the African Union meetings revolves around who wasted more of their countries' money.:yuk:

[prospector]

More to the point, some other countries money in the form of aid.

Prospector

[fireitup]

maybe he can lend it to his mate bob....

...so the poor wife doesn't have to nick air zims A/C???

maybe she can pick up the best seller "how to run an african nation" by Mobutu, at Harrods? if the mastercard still works??

Grin & bear it huh?:}

[NdekePilot]

Deanw,
You sound surprised?
They are all the same, mate.
Never let the starvation of your people or the ruination of a prosperous country get in the way of a good ol' African squander!!!
And guess what? It'll never change.
I guess the Mugabe Model of Economic Enlightenment really is the future!!

NP ducks below parapet to avoid hail of politically correct rhetoric and expletives............

:uhoh: :uhoh: :uhoh:

[Engineer]

NdekePilot

Mugabe Model of Economic Enlightenment should read Mugabe Economic Model of Enlightenment better know as that Africian acronym

ME ME :D

[Dogma]

B Sousa,

What a wonderful way to view the world! "Like it or lump it"

I for one would find it inspiring and refreshing if Mbeki did use an AN2 or chartered.

A very disappointing man. Zimbabwe Mk2 on the way but worse.

[matkat]

This thread interests me in that I was involved with the BBJ,I can tell you that the cost of the A/C was nowhere near the cost mentioned it was in fact roughly half the quoted price and incudes the interior.The other figure given to refurbish a B747-SP is so far out as you can make it,I know this also as I was involved in just such an aircraft being refurbished last year and if the agency could tell me exactly which facility it is I will guarantee to send work to it.

[Gimbal]

Matkat

Didn't you know that South Africa has the highest proportion of whingers per capita !

This is just another way of twisting facts to suit certain groups in order to discredit a democratically elected government. And I'm sure said group were quite content when they were ruled by a gang of bombastic idiots, who mind you quite frequently commandeered a B707 to transport friends and family down to Cape Town for the weekend, in good old fashionded Bob style!

[NdekePilot]

Bwana Engineer,
You are absolutely right!!!
Hee Hee!!!!
NP.:cool:

[matkat]

Gimbal thanks for telling me that and no i did not know that.Really infuriating when I read rubbish like this and really I don"t know where these figures came from,on the BBJ I saw the actual invoice so I can tell you the figure I quoted is as near as I can estimate due to $-Rand ex rate.By my estimates for a 74 SP to be "D" checked and reconfigured would be substantially more expensive than the quoted figure,also take into account the much higher maintenance and running cost of the 747 V BBJ the best option is undoubtedly the BBJ.
BRGDS
matkat

[V1 Rotate]

BSousa,

I don't quite see the hungry people in the USA. Am I missing something??

V1 Rotate:confused: :confused:

[4HolerPoler]

Guys could we get this thread back on track before it falls over the edge.

Thanks

4HP

[126,7]

ZS-TJS Learjet 45-083 ex OY-LJG Premier of Gauteng Province

So its not just the Prez, but the Premier of Gauteng too!!

Edited to add the following info which I found on a different website.



Owner changed
30/04/2004


So the Premier only got this baby recently!

[George Tower]

The Prime Minister of the UK uses a chartered BA 777 for many overseas trips, John Howard the Australian PM often flies on Qantas. I'm going to get into hot water here but I will say this anyway - I believe that most African leaders are interested in their own personal vanity rather than in furthering progress in their countries.


It is against a background of corruption and nepotism that pervades most of the continent that we look at Mbeki's latest purchase and then not unreasonably take a cynical view.

Perhaps "matkat" could produce the evidence for his claims about the BBJ. I'm all for fair play and so if there is a clar cut case for Mbeki having his BBJ then great lets have it made.

I don't know exactly how much life the classic 747s have left in them but one would assume a few more years at least. Remeber also that the president isn't supposed to be doing LHR-JNB on a daily basis, so whilst a 747 classic might be more to operate, just how much flying is Mbeki planning on doing.....or may be there are those State visits to Harrods.....I forgot about those
:yuk:

[springbok702]

from caa register


ZS-TJS
Make LEARJET 45

Last register update 08/06/2004

Serial Number 083

Year of manufacture 2000

Mass 0 kg

Owner DUNROSE TRADING 180 (PTY) LTD

Address PO BOX 5472 TYGERVALLEY 7536

Telephone 021-915-6300

Register 05/05/2004

Owner changed 30/04/2004

Status
Registered

[126,7]

I got the info on ZS-TJS from this website. (http://www.buchairshop.com/bizjetupdate_000.txt)

Dont know where they get their gen from but I did check the CAA site too. Anybody know who uses this aerie ? Is it indeed the Premier ?

[springbok702]

what is interesting is that there are no details anywhere for the company DUNROSE TRADING 180 (PTY) LTD ,various other DUNROSE TRADING companies with a different number and none of them have heard of this particular company

and the contact number given is an ABSA branch in the cape

[Deanw]

The registered office of Dunrose Trading 180 (Pty) Ltd is in Tygervalley, Cape Town.

And the directors I hear you ask?

Why, it's TOKYO MOSIMA GABRIEL SEXWALE and EDWIN FRIER SCHMIDT :oh:

Recognise at least one of the names :E

[Sir Cumference]

I am aware that Tokyo Sexwale was in the process of acquiring a Lear 45. This must be it. This is in his role as businessman and not for any political reasons.

[Invictus]

It must suck being the leader of the majority eh ?

[4HolerPoler]

Latest:
Mbeki's jet needs extra R20m

President Thabo Mbeki's jet - named the Inkwazi - is set to require nearly R20m more than the R58m budgeted for running costs by the defence department over the next three years. The aircraft falls under the defence department vote. Although it is a small budget item within the department, rising costs of the aircraft have been noted in parliament. Its joint budget committee this week reported that the department of defence (DoD) had expressed a concern "that the expectations contained in Finance Minister Trevor Manuel's Medium Term Budget Policy Statement (MTBPS) did not reflect the projected allocations to the department." Manuel presented the MTBPS late last month.

This, in layman's language, is that MPs were concerned that the department was not getting enough money to carry out its required functions. The higher-than-expected costs of the Inkwazi, which is Zulu for fish eagle, is listed under a report on the MTBPS released by the budget committee which is responsible for oversight on the budgeting process. It is chaired by African National Congress MP Nhlanhla Nene. The jet is mentioned under an item expressing concern that the role of the DoD in Africa "has continued to grow," but was still under-funded. A larger amount of R126m was needed under that item, but under air defence it notes: "increased flying hours for the presidential business jet requires an additional R19m."

The committee noted that DoD is under budget distress and viewed its declining budget allocations "as indicative of a decline in government priority." According to a document submitted to the National Assembly defence committee, operational spending on the presidential aircraft was projected to be R11m in the current financial year, rising to R23m next year and just over R24m in 2006/07. The jet - long a bone of contention with opposition parties - hit the headlines earlier this year when the DoD released figures to parliament showing that Mbeki took ANC officials - including national spokesperson Smuts Ngonyama - with him abroad the R600m Boeing 737 during the election period. Figures released then indicated that the average of the 81 flights taken in the year to June was about R270 000. Total operating cost for the period was nearly R22m.

The defence vote remains virtually stagnant - when accounting for inflation - in the three-year period with the budget projected to be R22.2bn this year, rising to R24.7bn next year and to R25.3bn in 2006/07, but falling to R25.2bn in 2007/08. The average annual growth in defence spending in this period is 4.3%, according to the MTBPS.

[B Sousa]

Seems there is another thread on this forum from which he can obtain the proper pilots of his presuasion. Bet that wont happen anytime soon.

[Life'sShort-FlyFast]

Bert, Hear Hear:ok:

It has been said on one of the forums before, that we wonder if Mbeki had to have a vasectomy, would he insist that the surgeon be locally trained!?

Methinks NOT!!!:E :E

[BAKELA]

Heard the Prez is not going to Abuja (AU meeting on the Ivory Coast) on Sunday due to a trip to Brussles for an EU meeting (Mon-Wed). Considering the Abidjan and Cairo flights the last few days and the SAAF's rumoured cockpit crew Prezjet compliment, just wondering if the SAAF has FDP restrictions as well?

FDP = Flight & Duty Periods, or;
FDP = Fiscal & Defence Problems?

Just asking...

[126,7]

FDP = Fiscal & Defence Problems?
Ha ha ha thats a nice one Bakela. I did see the BBJ on CNN and it does look nice with the big "SAAF" label on the side. Pity about the bucks though. Why is Thabo going to the EU meeting? Since when is SA part of the EU? Ahh maybe they need some donour money to keep the BBJ in the air........

[124.8]

Well,well,well, the numbers might differ a little on the various items : so much for the BBJ and so much for the interior. Both added was R 600 million.
If the aircraft cost was half of that, the other half was definitely the interior. Now, I was in Jet Aviaition in Basel (Switzerland) where the machine was furnished with all the gold taps etc, with mr XYZ and have seen the documents regarding total cost : R600 million in 2002, even have the photograghs of the machine with ZS.... Does the interior justify R300 million ?? NO!!!!
Some more facts : flight to Cape Town from FAWK. Cost for 14 passengers meals on a two hour flight :R 27000-00 !!!!! Come on mr Mbeki, how do you or ANYBODY justify that kind of expenditure ? O, of course, some funds could have been diverted to some ex state president's children fund, especially if his childrens fund paid for his daughters marriage and the full entourage accomodation in a luxurious Sandton hotel....
Sorry, I am of the point, but is it about extreme expenditures ???:ugh: :E :yuk:

[B Sousa]

124.8
Chill a bit. Im sure past Presidents have done the same thing. Hes the Head whatever now and will do as he sees fit.
I think the power to change things is gone. What you have to do now is either get a piece of the pie yourself or find another place to live.
As I said before, as soon as the tax base leaves he will be flying in his luxurious Antonov.......wont be tomorrow, but its gonna happen.

[Evanelpus]

Having been involved in the sale of biz jets to overseas clients, it never ceased to amaze me how much they spent to travel in luxury whilst their subjects were living in poverty.

Two of the biggest culprits were Nigeria and Tanzania but I doubt that this will shock many of you.

[maxrated]

STOP WHINING ALL OF YOU,

I think its bloody great that our government wants to invest tax payers money into aircraft as opposed to any other completely usless money pits that exist in our countries fiscus.

Airoplanes and helicopters need pilots to fly them, (thats us remember), more polititians in planes means more jobs for pilots, its about time that sefrican pilots jumbed onto the gravy train as well, so stop the bloody whining !!

Lets encourage our polititians to buy as many planes and helicopters as they can, we should even encourage fierce competition amongs them, "my planes bigger faster / more expensive than yours. " that will encourage them to buy bigger and better aeries for us to fly.

so what if the whole damn country is half starving while the president gets a 500 million buck aerie, those starving masses are the ones who democratically voted for this govenment, so they should not b1tch and moan about the way the president spends their money, or am I missing something about democracy here??

I say we should encourage every provincial premier to get a premier ! or citation or lear, the more expensive the better, and sod the starving masses who voted for this government, because as a white sefrican male, there arnt that many good carreer breaks around for us anymore and because i enjoy flying jets for a living and this would increase my chances of playing with, and getting paid to fly, these lekker aeries enormously !!

As pilots we should be trying to encourage the government into spending as much money as they can into cash streams that support and enhance our chosen carreer/proffessional line. This means aircraft and aviation support structures.

If every provincial premier got issued with a private jet, ( I can hear the DA party's parlimentary winging session already !), that would be 9 aircraft plus mabey a spare or two, say 11 planes at 3 pilots per aircraft (average crewing requirement per corporate jet), that would mean that there would be 33 new pilot jobs in the industry. Now imagine the highlife that those pilots would live. I have flown ministerial flights before and lets just say that you would not be accomodated at the holiday in , no sir this would be five star treatment we are talking Mount Nelson and Polana hotel stuff here plus expense accounts and crew entertainment allowances that go hand in hand with the job, wouldnt this be a great job ???

[Solid Rust Twotter]

...Except that the vast majority who voted these rectums in are not the ones footing most of the tax bill. Stings my ring having little or no say in how MY money is wasted.

[B Sousa]

Maxrated will be singing a different tune after someone can get one of the NEW pilots trained or at least sell him a Pilots license.

[Skylion]

Its not just the 3rd World which raises the question of the use of Presidential jets. How can the US justify, in terms of an election fought on equal terms , the use by the incumbent of Air Force One and the Presidential helicopters while the contender has to charter whatever he can find and afford. Wonderful role model for less developed countries,-just like hanging chads etc.
These problems are not just African,- lets not forget what happens in the rest of the world, which makes misbehaviour here far from unique or indeed surprising. Where are the role models? President Tone of what is effectively a one party parliament in the UK?

[B Sousa]

Skylion, firstly the U.S. can afford it. Second its part of the deal. As Sitting president he may be campaigning but is also acting as President and receives the security and tools required to do his work.
Its non political, in that it goes with any President in office.
The challenger(s) get the same security, it thier particular party has to find transporation.
I certainly have no problem with Imbecki having a nice jet. He represents South Africa.

[Skylion]

B Souza,- all very well if one sees it that way, but in UK the roles of the Prime Minister for a) the Government and b ) his party are entirely separate. Hence any expenses of the election campaign are entirely down to ther party and he can not fly around on the RAF or anyone else at taxpayers expense. In this way , he and the challenger(s) are as nearly as is possible on equal footing. One would think thats more like true democracy.
Whether the contry is rich or poor makes no difference. Freebies for its leaders at hard pressed taxpayers expense are simply wrong, so saying its OK in the USA but not in SA doesnt hold water.

[maxrated]

Solid rust twotter

Our tax money is being wasted anyway, might as well have it wasted in our direction.

B Sousa

I am not partcularly concerned about unqualifeid PD pilots getting into ministerial pilot positions (even though this entire scenario in hyperthetical at the moment) , although suitably qualified PD pilots should be no problem.

The present government may be corrupt but the're not stupid, not even Thabo m'Beki would not let a newly qualified PD BEE doctor perform his vasectomy.
While the government is keen to punt affirmative action all around many of the high level ministers and PD bussinessmen appear to be loath to take on poorly qualified AA pilots themselves when they know that there own arse is on the line.

One thing that one notices about high level government flights is that the cockpit crew are largely composed of lighter coloured south africans, even other african leaders presidential jets usually have at least one lightly coloured pilot up front. Even old Bob Mugabe had honkey pilots for years before taking indigineous Zimbabwean pilots to fly the presidential jet/s

I remember an incident where Jay Naidoo, remeber him the minister without portfolio, refused to board an airforce plane piloted by 2 newly qualified PD chaps, because as he put it, " the cockpit crew did not fully represent the south african demographic" in other words he wanted an experienced white guy in the cockpit somewhere as opposed to the 2 qualified but inexperienced AA chaps.

Even SAA appears to have dropped the whole AA pilot thing for the time being.



:D

[V1 Rotate]

It's hard enough to find work in our industry as it is. Most other industries get some kind of subsidy. So instead of throwing tax-payers money down the drain on social nonsense, spend it on loads of nice new aireys! Create jobs for pilots.......That's what I say!
More 74s, more BBJs, lots of G4s & G5s a few Hawkers and RJs.

The more the merryer!

V1:ok: :ok:

[Solid Rust Twotter]

Problem is the okes who have to cough up to keep it flying aren't going to get those jobs unless the AAs gooi a wobbly and get Mbeki to kak in his rods in which case they won't be able to get enough of us.:E