Q-room

[Kaptin M]

Some startling accusations made there (which is the reason the thread was Deleted by the originator, or pulled by Woomera, I guess).

Not dis-similar to Abeles unfounded "broken arms and legs" accusations, that he stated on national tv, had been made against pilots, in 1989.

Are these statements - by CJ credible?

I understood that on Q-room everyone knows everyone else, so there's be no difficulty in ID'ing such "thugs".

Edit: I see it's still running, so I guess it's okay to quote Cactus Jack...it is impossible to post on qrewroom without some sort of comeback, ranging from vilification to death threats.

[Keg]

G'day Kap, a couple of the lads who posted views opposed to some of the more senior bretheren did in fact recieve some 'harassing' phone calls and messages. I don't recall the exactness of them but I do recall the member recieving them as being somewhat hacked off.

Of course, the moron and coward doing the harassing didn't work the issue on Qrewroom, they did it anonymously via a phone and so on.

Besides that, some have been known to get calls from various management people for comments made on Qrewroom too that have been deemed inappropriate. ;)

[amos2]

So, can all of us on Prune have access to Q Room?

Could be an interesting thread! :p

[bonvol]

The short answer is no. Some sort of affiliation with QF is necessary. You are not missing much though.

Its just the usual stuff pilots carry on about, bidding, jobs going offshore, trip swaps, DPA, MDC etc etc etc.

The bit that gets me with qrewroom is that the regionals etc can see the mainline stuff but not vice versa.

[Pinky the pilot]

Even death threats eh? I still remember when I worked with Simbu Aiviation for the late Richard Rowe (God rest his soul) and he once told us pilots that the company generally recieved at least one death threat for each pilot around once a week!:eek:
What really put that into it's proper perspective however was that we were also informed by a senior PNG Constabulary official at the time that the raskols (criminals) who really meant to kill you would'nt make a prior threat!
The ones that did issue a threat were only gutless windbags and should be treated with the utmost contempt!

You only live twice. Once when
you're born. Once when
you've looked death in the face.

[The_Cutest_of_Borg]

Q-room, due to it's non-anonymous nature remans generally pretty tame.

I'd like to see Smithy add an anonymous forum to it, then we'd have some fun, but I guess we have PPrune.

The amount of active coercion from management and AIPA is something to behold however. Calls from management, mainly to FO's and SO's but occasionally to Captains are common, as are calls from the AIPA executive when some slight is percieved.

Anyone aspiring to a management/training position is actively warned off posting on the forum, so unfortunately, many do.

The only time you get them out of the woodwork is when it looks as if an issue may actually affect them in a big way. We see it now as some courageous soul has raised the point that the rostering system was not fair in the first place and is getting less so on some fleets, so maybe we should do something about it????... fun to be had by all.

But generally, if you want interesting thread at the price of some occasional total cr@p.. stick to Pprune.

[Rind Skin]

Well I vented my spleen on the other thread, "heavy pilots" or whatever it was clled. Used a few expleteives but went back and edited them out in a fit of sensibility. Sorry to those tasked with maintaining the standards. I was pissed.........

Anyway I think this stinks, airline pilots makiNg death threats? Anyway I don't believe it. First of all , all the pilots I know are too piss-weak to follow through on a threat that requires them to get off their fat arses and lift a finger. I would laugh in their fat faces if I HEARD OF A DEATH THREAT.

wHAT A BUNCH POF PATHETIC maggots. oops caps lock....

I repeat ........ YOU LOSERS ARE A SACK OF S**T.

[Capt_CheeseDick]

Well said, Cutest.

Anonymity does afford some protection and provide a personal safety guard, when trying to get some folk to "wake up and smell the coffee" and see other sides of problems. Pity it's not on Qroom.

Captain CheesDick, signing out :ok:

[greybeard]

Death threats??

So what is new from the halls of Aviation?

In a previous millenium, life, late 80s to be precise, I and my family received them during a passage of "Industrial Disputation"

When you get a call suggesting you teenage children's horses may come back empty from their current outing, or your children get a call suggesting their Mother might not get home safely from shopping, identifying the car and centre, you change your outlook about the people who you feel or perceive make them.

As may be obvious, nothing was done in either case, most of the perps are as gutless as a carcase in the butchers, but your perception of the persons you feel, or know, made them, will forever be changed, as is your sense of freedom.

Maybe some of the like people of the time frame are still involved in Aviation, sort of "Modus Operandi" ?????

Still don't like them, still wont forget them to the 3rd Generation.

Rant over, back to the good life in Aust, still the best place even if the Industry is in a mees, turmoil, missmanaged, underpaid, insecure, BUT still the best fun you can have with your clothes on.

Sui Generus

The old Greybeard is still going strong, been here since we had less than 2000 members!!!!!

:ok:

[Rind Skin]

Well it says Oct 03 .............

childless horses? Wifeless shopping cars? This is bad???

Okay okay..... jokes..... listen I still say the typical gutless fat-arsed airline pilot is incapable of delivering on this sort of threat and wouldn't know what "trouble" is.

I laugh my head off at the notion......... they are pathetic.

[Cactus Jack]

Weeeellll, OK then Rind. You are a big tough guy who isn't afraid of those

typical gutless fat-arsed airline pilots.

So if this is the case, then I'm assuming that you won't have too much of a problem with telling us all who you are....

It's all very well acting tough and putting down the industry, but in the end it's a choice. Do I need the hassle of vilification on Qrewroom, or should I sit back and have a beer? The answer for most is pretty simple.

And whilst the death threats may not be too serious, and I would doubt that anyone does take them too seriously, the threat facing your career is far more serious. Remember, often the people who would deal out this villification are those above you in the food chain. They can and do threaten career advancement...

[Rind Skin]

yeah.............. WHAT-EVVVVVV-ERRRR....

And your real name is cactus Jack, is it? You twit.

if you run off, tail between legs, and have a beer then you're part of the problem, not the solution. Pretty obvious really :rolleyes:

If you're one of those theatening types scaring little girls in playgrounds then you should be ashamed of yourself.

[Cactus Jack]

I note with interest Rind, that you chose not to provide your true name. Rather hypocritical? Not so tough after all, are we?

And yes, after several margaritas, my name DOES become Cactus Jack Slade!

[Rind Skin]

Oh you noticed that? Rather sharper than I gave you credit for, then...... I shall have to review my strategies

Now stop frightening little girls with a bag on your head and meet me down at the coogee bay hotel beer garden and we'll sort it out.

Meanwhile I will continue to laugh about you and your fat-gutted flabby-arsed "union-goon" mates. We alll think you're a pathetic sack of cats' arses!!!

[Woomera]

Mr Rind Skin wont be playing with us any more, I have taken his sand pit rights away until he learns to play nicely.

No biting or gouging is allowed here.:rolleyes:

[Kaptin M]

Somehow Woomera, I think that R.S. was knew that he was r.s. from his conception - a kami-kazi player!!

There also seem, to me, to be some remarkable similarities between the psyches of R.S. and Winstun, imo :eek:

[amos2]

That's a pity. I was having quite a laugh at his comments on various threads. I mean, he's just a harmless, permanent drunk isn't he? :D

[Romeo Tango Alpha]

Greybeard,

I am not sure about your "loyalty" for want of a better word.

You talk as if you are a "Dispute returnee" (not using THAT word...), yet you quote the AFAP "Sui Generus" line about solidarity...:hmm:

You also mention that "Still don't like them, still wont forget them to the 3rd Generation.". Yes, it runs deep, does it not?

Even though we are from opposite sides of the argument (I assume), the feelings seem similar, but for slightly differing reasons!

As my most admired Captain (former TAA - NEVER call it Australian or QANTAS) once said "You walk through ghosts..."

This is NOT an attack at anyone, it is merely an observation of differing points of view, with a similar outcome.

[mo_gravy]

I think you're wrong there Mon Capitano. I really don't think Winstun has been back because Gatouli never changes and I'm sure I'd recognise his style.

Now I thought Mo' Gravy was dead but it seems he's still with us and back out of retirement out of necessity.

By the way, I got a pm from Rind Skin. He says he's sober and in a reflective mood. He seems sorry and hopes the ban isn't permanent. But if it is, can he at least get in to change his "location" to something funnier?

[greybeard]

RTA,

Just to clear up ANY MISCONCEPTION

I did not "Return" to my previous employer, never gave it a second look apart from giving them the "power" to say "not suitable" AFTER the AFAP had it's ability to represent Pilots returned.

Yes it is still TAA, as it was MMA, Ansett, ASA, ANSW and Butlers, Air Queensland, Bush Pilots etc. in many a senior citizen's view. They were days of good flying, generally a fair days pay for the task, track trips, good fun and "games", we even used to flash lights at the passing fellow aviators, pass on good/bad WX tips, had a Flight Service who did just that, service we Aviators with our needs.

The PRIDE and FELLOWSHIP (not religious) has gone from the industry in many places. The bottom line rules all things.

I have had the privilage of 43 years in this industry, still enjoy looking out the window at the world, even if at most times it is in a Simulator these days, teaching the "Trade" to the next generation.

I just made the comment ref threats as that some cats never change, the bad blood and Barst%$dry of previous times is still endemic in a lot of people in the surviving major airline of those times.

You may be interested to learn that the AFAP "motto" loosly translated is "can be seen to be different". I think we were, I feel I still am, and proud of it, sod the others.

Greybeard is still here

[Romeo Tango Alpha]

Greybeard,
Thank you for the clarification, and THANK GOD! :ok: It seems we ARE on the same team.

Your 1 in 60 computation put me back on track.

:p

The class has gone from airlines these days, with very few exceptions (SIA is one exception, as is BA and CX). $$$ makes the fans go round...

Your closing line is SO very suitable sir.

SUI GENERUS!!!!!!

[MoFo]

To those who don't have access to Qroom let me tell you it is mostly pretty weak stuff. Pussies! Because every one is using their own names and management read it daily any pilot without a wish to receive a phone call will make restrained comment. I mean if you are a F/O hoping to have a long and financially secure career with the big QF you don't want to p*ss off some of the shiny pants in management do you. They may get a little touchy shall we say.



No wonder Pprune is more to the point. However the personal slanging can get a bit rich at times.

[Romeo Tango Alpha]

I find it almost bemusing that the Q-Room is, for all intents and purposes, moderated by Management!

It is like they are trying to control what the employees think.

Freedom of speech? I don't think so!

PPRuNe, saviour, as always.

[Kaptin M]

So what sort of comments (in Q-room) would prompt a death threat, or any other sort of threat involving violence to be made?

You have to remember, grey beard and RTA, that those threats (and the "broken arms and legs") were made at a time of a serious, long-running industrial dispute, plus at least 2 of the key players had previous blue collar union experience, and/or Teamsters associates, where that sort of stuff was run-of-the-mill.
No prizes for guessing where they (or the skinned greyhound) originated! (As a matter of fact, I heard someone suggest that Fat Pete was HOPING that threats such as "broken arms and legs WOULD be made, to try to PREVENT people from scabbing/signing up, to get the whole sh!t fight finished quickly!!).

This Q-room "gangsterism" is occurring when things are humming along on "quiet days", and is not something I ever experienced, or heard of, in my pre-'89 airline days.
And if, as Cactus Jack says, "whilst the death threats may not be too serious..", I wonder what he DOES consider serious?:uhoh:

[Romeo Tango Alpha]

I remember them all too well Kap, all too well... The Hungarian Slug, and the Silver Haired Bodgie.

Strong always did look like a prissy **** sitting there in his oversized bow tie, and perpetually forlorn looking face. He was DEFINITELY overshadowed by Abeles and Hawke! (that is NOT a compliment BTW!)

Changing tack a little, but staying essentially on topic, what is the heirarchy like now in Qantas as regards those that contracted during the dispute? Do they progress up the ENTIRE Qantas fleet, or are they relegated to QANDOM alone?

I had been lead to believe that the contractees could solely remain within the parameters of their contracted aircraft (say 737) and had a HARD time changing, whereas Qantas "mainline" pilots progressed through the fleet, subject to bidding etc. For instance, a Qantas Mainline junior F/O would progress from 737, to A330, to 747 as F/O, then start again as 737 Captain etc. like in the old days pre-89. The contractees on the other hand, basically remained "stuck" in QANDOM for perpetuity.

I have also been informed that Qantas international (mainline) pilots are now doing the BNE-SYD-MEL A330 flights, and NOT QANDOM.

Probably incorrect, but inquiring minds want to know...

[gravy]

wow.. the original gravy is back... "Allll-ROIGHT.. time for a crime spree...."

I thought gravy ol buddy ol pal was also long dead but he seems fine to me.

When we get something interesting going here in DG rep Points I'll come back and give gravy a test run.

gravy

[Cactus Jack]

Death threats, if made, would likely be hollow, Kapt. Along the lines of a crank call if you like. I dont believe for an instant that they would folow through with any violence.

More serious is the threat to your career, because that they CAN impact.

[Keg]

RTA, with 'old' longhaul aircraft types, the 'A' drivers fit in behind all the longhaul pilots as at 15 Sep 92 in thier seniorority so if bidding for a 767 or 744 command then the 'A' seniorority numbers start at about 880. This means that the number 1 'A' driver is still a year to three away from a 767 command. Similarly, the number one 'Q' driver fits behind the 280(ish) 'A' piilots WRT bidding for a 737 command.

WRT new aircraft types, we're now in the realms of the 'integration' agreement. Basically, we do a quick look at the types of flying that the aircraft is supposed to do over the coming season and the slots are awarded proportional to that. IE, initially the A330 was 90% domestic so the 'A' pilots got 90% of the command slots (I'll explain why not F/O slots in a bit!). Now that the prediction is for it to be predominantly long haul, the balancing of numbers has to occur so about 90% of the slots allocated next year will go to 'Q' pilots. This should bring the fleet numbers up to about 60/40 on the 'Q' side (ball park figure!). As each year goes on, they look at the projected flying and sort it out accordingly. IE, if the A330 ends up as only international (unlikely but work with me here) then as an 'A' list pilot leaves the aircraft, he or she will be replaced by a 'Q' pilot to balance out the ratio of crew numbers from the respective lists relative to the flying the aircraft is doing. Presumably, the A380 will do less than 10% flying so I wouldn't expect too many 'A' list pilots on that aircraft.

OK, so why aren't F/Os caught up in this stuff. Basically, all the 'A' list folk have the seniorority for command- in fact, they must because a bunch of 'Q' list pilots have the seniorority for a 737 command and have been allocated. Quite simply, the 'A' list doesn't bid for F/O slots because the 'A' list doesn't exist for F/O slots at all. After 15 Sep 92, we're all on the same line of seniorority.

So, to answer you're original questional, the original 'QANDOM' pilots (as you put it) aren't 'restricted' to the 737 per se but it'll be a while before they can bid for another type command like the 767 (and then they'll be junior anyway unless Garry can get the squirrel cage up and going! ;) ) and certainly about another ten years before any of them get close to the 744. Eventually they'd probably be able to bid for the A380 in their own right as their seniorority got to that stage.