US Military - What have they got up their Sleeve??

[Beer Can Dreaming]

Spoke to a few friends that participated in military exercises some years back in the USA.
They claimed to have witnessed extremely fast controlled military aircraft in their region whilst cruising at a very leisurely Mach 2.0 or thereabouts.

This thing apparently went higher, must faster and these individuals were debriefed by a US Intelligence Officer (oxymoron?) afterwards about the possibility of having seen something.

Just what do the Americans have under their hat that we are not privy to and has anyone else seen/heard anything else about the possibility of them having hypersonic aircraft?

Its been a while since the F117A was made public so there must be something else in the makings.

[Huck]

You didn't get this (http://www.fas.org/irp/mystery/aurora.htm) from me....

[TATprobe]

Ohhhh Super!! Just makes me wonder which war the Americans think they are fighting. Sounds just the thing for kickin ass in Fallujah!

Maybe all this cash would be better spent on nanotech, like intelligent smart dust to see who is creeping over the Afghan border.

But silly me! How would the US aviation industry get all those military backhand subsidies from that!!:confused:

[Chillwinston]

Seem to remember a satellite weather picture some time ago, showing vapour trails shaped like "doughnuts" including a hole in the centre.

Pulse Jet?

[BigHitDH]

They claimed to have witnessed extremely fast controlled military aircraft in their region whilst cruising at a very leisurely Mach 2.0 or thereabouts.

This thing apparently went higher, must faster and these individuals were debriefed by a US Intelligence Officer (oxymoron?) afterwards about the possibility of having seen something.


Yep, it was called Concorde. Please contact your local air museum.

[A10 Thundybox]

Its almost certainly real, there have been huge numbers of sightings from salisbury plain to scotland, it was most notably sighted around machrihanish for long spells throughout 1992 and was also sighted by trawler crews in the north sea and north atlantic. it flew fast and noislessly and was powered by EMPDW. its a new (ish) way of charging ionised air down a quantum switching linear tube with a narrowing aperture (as in magnetic linear action) so the engine has no moving parts other than "thrust"

Its supposed to be secret.

Shhhh.

You ain't seen me right?

[CatpainCaveman]

As a bod with connections to the AD community, the Aurora is not a new phenomena.

It was reported in open press a good few years ago, albeit open press meaning scientific journals.

It was reported that the Uncle Sam had come up with the jet of all time, something that could go round the globe in a few hours, putting Quantas to shame for getting to Aus from CONUS.

Only snag being that its stealth concept was useless due to various issues which I'm not going to describe here showing up really easily.

[Magoodotcom]

There's some pretty conclusive evidence that 'Aurora' or whatever it was called DID exist, however the story is that it was retired in 1994 due to ongoing problems with the engines. Maybe it will be resurrected once engine technology has caught up?

As for now, there's evidence of a fast stealthy strike platform operating out of Tonopah with a cover unit comprised of F-16s for daytime flying - similar to what they did with the F-117/A-7 combination in the mid 80s.

There's also talk of an advanced development of the Lockheed Darkstar Recon UAV being flown out of Groom Lake, and that it has even seen action over Iraq much to the chagrin of the U-2 drivers over there.

Cheers

Magoo :ok:

[pr00ne]

A10Thundybox,

Of course, if the Americans wanted to test a super duper top secret new jet, with all their research airfields to choose from, of course they'd choose to operate it from CAMPBELLTOWN AIRPORT with it's regular civilian flights, terminal building and easily observed approaches.

[CarltonBrowne the FO]

Pr00ne, the reference to RAF Machrihanish refers to 1992- before the RAF base was closed. I flew there a lot during the 1980s, and I saw aircraft there I'd never even heard of before... it also had just enough hangar space to allow visiting aircraft to spend the day there out of sight. Add the base's ease of air access, but remoteness by surface transport (140 miles of A-road from the nearest city, still almost all single-carriageway), small local population, the ease with which it is still possible to monitor who comes onto Kintyre.... quite a useful place after all!

[Human Factor]

Only snag being that its stealth concept was useless due to various issues which I'm not going to describe here showing up really easily.

Does something which blasts around at Mach 5 really need to be stealthy? By the time you hear it coming, it's long gone .... ultimate stealth!

[pr00ne]

Claridgesorange, the PO,

In 1992 RAF Macrihanish was still also Campbelltown airport. I've flown in and out frequently and am well aware of what used to go on there. Yes it had a large Gaydon type hangar but it is still not the place you'd choose to operate a stealthy secret wonder jet, all kinds of maritime related SF stuff maybe, but not a stealthy secret wonder jet!

[S.Potter Returns]

Magoo

Do you mean this?

http://www.air-attack.com/page.php?pid=9

[rivetjoint]

I remember reading somewhere that the US will be glad once they've got rid of the B-1 and their last swing wing aircraft, apparently the costs of having a VG platform make it too expensive for them to have in large numbers now.

I also can't see what use the "Switchblade" would have in today's battlefield. That article talks about it being a replacement for the F-111?! Well they've just had two intense wars and they don't seem to have a capability gap as far as I could see. The F/A-22 and JSF will meet the requirements for the next 20 years.

[Archimedes]

And don't forget that the 'Bird of Prey' is now hanging from the roof of a museum somewhere, having been declassified some time ago (as the bit at the bottom of the weblink says (although a Bird of Pray is something a little different - a religious budgie, perhaps?....)

The patent definitely exists:

Patent application (http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&d=PALL&p=1&u=/netahtml/srchnum.htm&r=1&f=G&l=50&s1=5,984,231.WKU.&OS=PN/5,984,231&RS=PN/5,984,231) , but I'm not so sure that it proves what the journalist is saying.

Also, I don't recall anyone mentioning that the patents for the F-117 and B-2 had been filed in the public domain...

[Magoodotcom]

"Magoo - Do you mean this? Switchblade"

S.Potter...not sure of its config, although I'm not sure how practical the Switchblade forward sweeping wing concept really is. :confused:

There's nothing really wrong with the swing wing concept as long as you design the thing right. The RAAF is very comfortable with its F-111s now that it has the Boeing-operated cold proof load facility to properly test and validate the integrity of the wing carry through box etc. :ok:

The USAF have themselves admitted there is a capability gap in between the F-15E and the B-1B, and that they've never really been able to replace the F-111, something I think the RAAF is going to discover rather painfully in about six or seven years! :{

The USAF issued an RFT earlier this year for a 'theatre' or regional bomber, and all the the range and loadout specs sound just like an F-111! Boeing responded with a reworked B-1R fitted with P&W F119 engines for supercruise, and a larger version of the X-45C UCAV. LockMart submitted a couple of FB-22 style concepts.

Now, just where the platform operating out of TTR fits in is anyone's guess. Perhaps it's such an exclusive or capable aircraft that the USAF can't hope to field it in the numbers they require, hence the RFT, or perhaps its just a concept or technology demonstrator. I guess well find out...eventually! :suspect:

Cheers :ok:

Magoo

[A10 Thundybox]

carlton brown thanks for batting for me,

Pr00ne maybe just maybe that little tiny runway in Scotland wasn't a FOB, maybe whatever it was was just popping in and out occasionally because those skunkworks boys get tired of flying circuits at edwards, michael or dugway as they can't land anywhere there isn't a sign saying "welcome to Topsecretville"

Maybe the locals at Mac don't congregate in their hundreds everyday to get a glimpse of the latest concept.

Here's another one for you, F117A at St Angelo? surely not. (popped in for tea and buns see?).

Anyone seen pics of the Ruski switchbladed SU37 now that thing kicks the &rse out of evolution.

Thundy;)

[mbga9pgf]

Although there has been plenty of speculation, I find it very difficult to believe the Yanks have a Mach 5 Spyplane... When you do the math for the skin temperarature (Stagnation at the nose cone and leading edges), its well above the melting point of Titanium.And well into weakening many modern metals including Nimonics and steel. Not that they could be used, simply far too heavy. Plus, the bl**dy thing would be visable for miles, the IR signal would be enormous, similar to that of an incoming Ballistic missile. Although it would not really matter, flying far faster and higher than any (current) Air defence system, other than Directed Energy. Ben Rich, designer of the SR-71 air inlets and Director of Skunk Works when it built the F-117 stated that Regan's dreams of a Mach 5 Spy plane were unreallistic, as the limits of the materials they were using were at their limits. And thats with using the fuel as a heat sink.

Besides, who needs a mach 5 spyplane when you have plenty of Synthetic apature radar UAV's and such like? Plus all the satilites you could dream of?

[West Coast]

Human factor posted:

"Does something which blasts around at Mach 5 really need to be stealthy? By the time you hear it coming, it's long gone .... ultimate stealth!"

That was much the same mindset that the US military and the CIA had with the U2 in its nacent operational stages. It flies so high, nothing can touch it it was the thought of the day. At the time the USSR didn't have anything to touch it. Didn't take them long to counter though.

[LowObservable]

Ain't nothing to see here, folks. Move along, gotta keep the traffic flowing.
TTR? Nothing there, we just use the place as a photo target. Need a few people and bit of construction to do that.
The other place? Didn't you read Popular Mechanics? It's been closed for years. Some people say that the journo involved took one wrong turn and a whole bunch of wrong conclusions, but what can ya say? Look at the good stuff in PM - the Moller SkyCar and all that - and tell me they don't know what's goin on.
Hey, maybe you're out here lookin for aliens. Jes make sure you see them before they see you, ya don't wanna end up like Cartman on South Park with a sixty-foot satellite dish up your ***.
And thanks for visiting the rathole end of the Silver State.

[Constable Clipcock]

US Intelligence Officer (oxymoron?)
Possibly. However, be assured that there'll always be an even bigger contradiction of terminology in anyone's fighting force:

LIGHT INFANTRY !!!

(i.e.: "You carry all the latest lightweight kit: all 200 pounds of it!")