Tour operator conspiracy against Luton?

[LTNman]

Every year it seems to get harder to book a holiday through Luton using a tour operator. Friends and neighbours who live less than a mile from Luton are being forced to travel down to Gatwick due to a lack of capacity. Even if a holiday is booked there is a good chance that the flight will be cancelled with passengers being switched to Gatwick to help fill the over capacity at that airport.

Next year it really looks grim for the airport as Thomson who are the largest operator through Luton appears to be cutting capacity by 50% yet Luton has the UK’s biggest catchment area for an airport that handles charter flights. What the hell is going on???:mad:

[682ft AMSL]

Sounds no different to many other areas of the country. I could just as easily write...

"Every year it seems to get harder to book a holiday through Leeds/Bradford using a tour operator. Friends and neighbours who live less than a mile from Leeds/Bradford are being forced to travel across to Manchester due to a lack of capacity. Even if a holiday is booked there is a good chance that the flight will be cancelled with passengers being switched to Manchester to help fill the over capacity at that airport".

as could people in Liverpool, Edinburgh, Teesside...

The simple fact is that the Tour Operators are under pressure from:

*The growth in low-cost flights from local airports
*The increasing use of the internet to self-package and tailor holidays to individual needs (and to save money)
* The growth in second home ownership, particularly on the Spanish Costa's
* The increase in popularity of medium/ longer haul destinations for the 'main' holiday

All of which is leading to a drop in demand for the traditional package holiday. What demand there is, is generally being booked later and at lower margins. Just about everyone I know who has taken a package holiday in the last 12 months has booked within a couple of months of departure and for most it is an extra break to supplement other holidays which they have arranged independantly.

With the tour operator market already fairly well consolidated, the natural response to these challenging conditions is to cut-capacity and costs and try and sell fewer holidays, departing from fewer UK airports.

The provisional data from the CAA for May show the effects of this quite clearly. 279,000 fewer passengers on charter flights to Spain & The Balearics than May 03 (a 18.6% drop). 117,000 fewer passengers to The Canaries (18.8%). 50,000 fewer to Portgual (23.4%). 73,000 fewer to Greece (11.3%). Turkey 77,000 higher (+52%). So, the best part of 450,000 fewer passengers on IT flights in May (assuming the CAA data is complete) - the equivalent of the best part of 2,500 empty A320 sectors. And intesting that the areas worst affected are those where the seat-only market is most developed.


I'd suggest that this isn't a conspiracy, it's a structural change in the industry.

682

[Buster the Bear]

I understand that Luton's passenger figures for May 2004 were down by around 2% year on year likely due to the contracting IT market. Overall movements were up probably due to the amount of Biz-Jets.
http://whipsnade.co.uk/picturelibrary/jpeg150/br/brown_bear_120_wide.jpg

[codpiece face]

You will probally find the the gatwick routes are protected as established operators do not want to lose slots. At the moment slots are not so much of a problem at LTN and STN but as LGW fills up as it was doing before when ba expanded at the airport then further charter expansion will be pushed out to the secondary airports.

I also think that the charters are starting to cut back in response to the loco's and this is across the uk not just in th SE or NW.

[MerchantVenturer]

Figures on the Bristol Airport website for May slightly contradict the general trend of this thread.

Charter pax were up 6.15% (at 140K) compared to May 2003, whilst sched pax were up over 20% (at 272K).

Part of the inccrease might be down to new weekly charter destinations this summer (new from BRS that is) to such destinations as Corsica, Sardinia, Croatia and more flights to Turkey and Bulgaria.

Perhaps that's one way for tour operators to go - provide more niche, out-of-the-way destinations not catered for by the locos.

[unwiseowl]

Twenty years ago Luton was probably as important as Gatwick in the charter market (CourtLine). Blame Lorraine Chase.

[LGS6753]

Unwise -

Actually that was thirty years ago!!!

Court Line went bust in August 1974 (I remember it well).

At that time they had around 10 One-Elevens and the two Tri-Stars. Dan-Air had 2 or 3 One-Elevens based, Invicta had a Vanguard at Luton, Monarch were up to half a dozen Britannias and 4 B720s, and Britannia were running something like 6 - 8 out of Luton including one of the 707s. There were also regular visits from the likes of Air Spain, Inex-Adria and British Midland.

The sole scheduled service was three times on a Saturday to Jersey with BMA.

Now, where's that zimmer frame.......

[Flightmapping]

Spain & The Balearics than May 03 (a 18.6% drop). 117,000 fewer passengers to The Canaries (18.8%).

Surely MTL can't be picking up all that decline on their own?


50,000 fewer to Portgual (23.4%). 73,000 fewer to Greece (11.3%).

Where is the loco market to Greece, apart from EZ to ATH?

[bacardi walla]

LGS6753 ah, those were the days, and not forgetting those wonderful Spantax CV990's and Balkan TU154's that appeared most Saturdays and the JAT B727's every Friday :)

I'll get me coat.....

[newswatcher]

lgs6753 and bacardi walla those were the days
http://airlines.afriqonline.com/images/courtzeb.jpg

BAC One-Eleven 517 G-AZEB at Gerona in 1972 - copyright Caz Caswell

[Buster the Bear]

Luton Airport’s head of sales and marketing Mandy Round has been appointed director – Northern Europe for the Hong Kong Tourist Board.

She will report in to Kevin Welch, the board's EMEA director. Her northern Europe brief also includes the Middle East. He noted her 'excellent commercial, marketing and sales experience gained in several different sectors of the travel industry.'


Her CV includes stints at Eurotunnel, Lunn Poly, Stakis Hotels and Hogg Robinson.

A source close to TBI confirmed that a furry brown bear was being head hunted as her replacement! Blimey!!!!!
http://whipsnade.co.uk/picturelibrary/jpeg150/br/brown_bear_120_wide.jpg

[almost professional]

next thing you know Vintage Atco will be posting about those CV990's doing 1/2 mile SRA's and then diverting to Stansted!
All I remember is watching the Tristars do circuits from my junior school window!

[LGS6753]

Aaaaahh - The Pink One-Eleven.

I spent many a happy shift crawling into her cavities (if you see what I mean - I was a baggage handler of course).:O :ok:

[niknak]

Catchment area has f**k all to do with passenger numbers if the airport authority chooses to charge more than anyone else in the region.

Make it more expensive to fly locally than it is to travel to Stansted and park for a couple of weeks, and it's highly likely that operators and the passengers will go elsewhere.

Even a bear knows that.

[bacardi walla]

LGS6753 allegedly :mad:

[Buster the Bear]

nicnak. Yes I do, but £150 quid as a flight supp?

almost prof. CV990's, Vintage would not know one if he saw one, but ask him about Percivals and Autair and a Castle in Germany! Spotting in the class room eh, tut tut!
http://whipsnade.co.uk/picturelibrary/jpeg150/br/brown_bear_120_wide.jpg

[almost professional]

well I was going to suggest Autair Ambassadors but I was being kind!-my first flight was in one of Autairs new 1-11's to BPK and back on one of Lutons open days-remember those!

[kala87]

Gosh, all this nostalgia about the good ol' days at EGGW. What a great thread.

So who remembers the Sudflug DC7C's roaring out on a Sunday night, torching blue fire all over the wings?

While we're on the subject of Court Line 1-11's, while they looked pretty from the outside, I recall a vile night flight to Athens in 1972 on one of their lime green 1-11's. Four hours in a puke-green tube with absolutely no leg room and minimal catering wasn't nice. EZY is civilised by comparison!

As for inclusive tour flights, as has already been eloquently pointed out, it's a declining market and certainly not the future for LTN. It's why airlines like MON have been diversifying into low-cost scheduled flights. I think we can see another major bankruptcy before long in the IT sector - there are simply too many holidays available at too low a price.

[Powerjet1]

My first flight in a commercial aircraft from LTN was on a Monarch Britannia(the whispering giant) taking an early package to Majorca.It was a great flight & if my memory serves me correctly, it took about 4 hours & the whole package cost £29 for a week's hols.

Remember also, for £2 2s 6d, my father & I took a day trip from Luton to Southend (via STN) on a fully loaded Viscount known as the 'Scottish Flyer' which operated a bus stop service between Glasgow & Southend calling at about 11 airports on the way. Great fun!!!!!! Unfortunately, it only lasted about 4/5 months.

[bacardi walla]

.....then there was the Sunday when MAOF turned up with it's B720B on turnround for TLV only to be confronted by a MEA B720 on a divert from LHR. Needless to say MAOF's security guards jumped to attention even more......:ok:

[Standard Jet Dep]

Yep my personal view is that I think the falling numbers are certainly nothing to do with just LTN, but something that affects the IT industry everywhere.
MV points out the current status at BRS. BRS is certainly quite a good place for IT bookings. Also I dont think EZY from BRS is so cheap nothing like FR fares anyway BRS Always made money in the past when I was there, but dont know so much about that now as I dont work there anymore. I just think since the LOCOs came along the whole perception of IT holidays has changed and using FR for example and booking a cheap hotel is seen as a lot cheaper. I am employed by a large IT company and from looking at our loads up here in STN recently. It really does not look so good. Anyway time will tell and im sure the stats shoved in front of my face everyweek will tell me more as well.

[LGS6753]

Aaaah, de Havilland.........
The 'Scottish Flyer', operated by Channel Airways and known as 'The Haggis Basher'.
Twice daily Portsmouth-Southend-Stansted(?)-Luton-East Midlands-Leeds-Teesside-Newcastle-Edinburgh-Aberdeen.
The Portsmouth leg was suspended after 2 Channel Airways 748s skidded on the wet grass runway on the same day(!).
On arrival at Luton for a 10-minute turn-round (eat your heart out, Ryanair), stopped on stand 9, shut down the port engines only whilst pax boarded/left then re-started whilst taxying.

I must be older than I thought....

[LTNman]

I can see the day when many airports lose their IT flights as the tour operator’s concentrate on operating from just a handful of airports as they did in the late 60’s early 70’s. I seem to remember in the days of Clarkson holidays that the punters had a choice of either Court line from Luton using 1-11’s and Tristars or Dan-air using Comets from Teesside and maybe one or two other airports and that was it.

By 1972 Luton was knocking out some 3,500,000 passengers most of them on charter flights. 250,000 of those being shipped in and out via Court line coaches from their North London air terminal. Ahh those were the days.

For those of you into old photos of Luton airport have a look at

http://www.lutononline.co.uk/mk4custompages/CustomPage.aspx?PageID=39258

http://www.lutononline.co.uk/mk4custompages/CustomPage.aspx?PageID=26832

http://www.lutononline.co.uk/mk4custompages/CustomPage.aspx?PageID=41971

Index here http://www.lutononline.co.uk/mk4custompages/CustomPageSummary.aspx?SectionID=5645

[vintage ATCO]

Blimey, those photos are a blast from the past! Why aren't I in any of them?? ;)

And yes, AP, I did many a talk down with Spantax CV990s - very fast down the approach, you had to talk fast. :D :D :D

[MerchantVenturer]

Marvellous old photographs. Thanks for posting the links, LTNman.

BTW, was the 1951 arrivals 'hall' really a garden shed?

[LTNman]

There are lots more old photos of Luton like this old photo of a Constellation http://doug3658.fotopic.net/p2722638.html on the Luton dump at this excellent website http://doug3658.fotopic.net/ just look in the pre 2000 section.

[OLNEY 1 BRAVO]

Reading this thread has reminded of my days living on the western outskirts of Stevenage in the late '60's and early '70's. Why was it that the visiting Germanair, Bavaria and Panair 1-11's were always much noisier than the based examples? They really schreeched out on departure.

I also remember the Sterling Caravelles .. they always seemed to be very low on approach .... they must have been well below the glideslope .. unless it was one of Vintage ATCO's SRA's!

Not to mention the Aer Turas DC-4's on a Saturday night ... you could here them passing WOBUN let alone turning RHB for 26!

[LTNman]

Not to mention the Aer Turas DC-4's on a Saturday night ... you could here them passing WOBUN let alone turning RHB for 26

Didn't one of their DC7's go off the end of the runway while landing on 08 and break in two after going down the embankment? :confused:

[OLNEY 1 BRAVO]

Indeed it did .. just as the Jetstar did a few later when it landed half-way down "08" during foggy conditions.

[newswatcher]

LTNman and Olney details here (http://aviation-safety.net/database/1974/740303-0.htm)

[CAP670]

niknak,

Your comment about the 'airport authority' (at Luton) charging more than anyone else in the region fails to address the reason WHY Luton's more expensive than BAA's cross-subsidised STN and LGW. TBI at Luton is forced to pay the airport owners (Luton Borough Council) £3 per scheduled & charter passenger handled. With pax likely to exceed 7 million during 04/05 that's £21M to the local Council before any money can be reinvested.

True, TBI went into the Concession with its eyes open, but this albatros round its neck prevents it from being able to compete on a level playing field.

However, despite the handycap of having a crap local council run by bone-headed councillors who can't see the commercial benefit to their local economy, passenger numbers at Luton are reaching record levels, movements are breaking records, and biz jet movements are increasing week by week. If the tour operators can't sell enough seats to fill their planes at Luton, maybe its because there are increasing numbers of low-cost scheduled destinations (easyJet/Ryanair/Monarch/Volare/Wizz) which people can use in conjunction with their personally-arranged accommodation.

As for the changes to Luton Airport's Marketing Department - maybe this will bring some new dynamism into its sales team. But they will still have to contend with the handicap of Luton Borough Council (aka toilet town) creaming off £3 per passenger.

:hmm:

[LTNman]

As for the changes to Luton Airport's Marketing Department - maybe this will bring some new dynamism into its sales team. But they will still have to contend with the handicap of Luton Borough Council (aka toilet town) creaming off £3 per passenger.

I guess the council is just looking for some return for 60 years of investment in the airport even though they never did have much idea on how to run an airport. I will always remember the construction of what is now easyjet’s HQ. This was built as the airports domestic terminal which never did handle an airline passenger.

[G-AZUK]

fifth picture down of this link describes the comet landing on LTN's GRASS runway - did he not have anywhere better to divert???

http://www.lutononline.co.uk/mk4custompages/CustomPage.aspx?PageID=26832

[CAP670]

Quote:

"I guess the council is just looking for some return for 60 years of investment in the airport even though they never did have much idea on how to run an airport"

You're right about them not having any idea about how to run an arport, but 60 years of investment? Come on, in the last 10 years the Council's investment has been minimal, and what it has done is a botched-up "Dad's Army" effort that has transformed Luton into an industry laughing stock.

TBI has the right approach and the intent, but it is simply hamstrung by a totally naff Concession Agreement that isn't long enough to enable it to borrow sufficient funds to invest because the business case doesn't stack up, and at the same time takes away a big slice of income which prevents it being able to compete with the likes of BAA at Stansted and Gatwick, and even with toy-town airports such as Coventry!

If the set up at Luton's such a great idea, how come no other UK airport has followed suit?

Don't waste your sympathies on Luton Borough Council - they're all a bunch of incompetent clowns, and not very good clowns at that!

But with TBI rumoured to be raising cash by selling some of its South American interests, you might well see some further quite significant investment at Luton - more than the £20M already announced - over the next four years or-so.

Of course, the Council will probably not provide much political or PR support, but then why should its councillors change a habit of a lifetime...?


;)

[Buster the Bear]

One of CAP670's so called 'Dad's Army' at Luton Borough Council is to become one of Blair's Lords. Lord Bill McKenzie has been rewarded for years of his loyalty to his party with a seat in the new House of Lords.

Bill was in the 'HOT-SEAT' when LBC put Luton airport out to a unique concession and represents Farley ward. Not too sure if he still does.
http://www.luton.gov.uk/db_media/00101965.jpg

[CAP670]

Well, he certainly can't be getting a peerage for services to Luton Airport, nor indeed to Toilet Town (Luton).

Someone really ought to ask him just what exactly Luton Borough Council does with the £20M or-so it creams off from TBI each year.

Returning to the original topic of this post, does anyone know if ThompsonFly is likely to operate any schedules out of Luton later this year or from Spring 2005.

Heard a rumour that it might be looking at a couple of Italian destinations (big Italian population in mid-Bedfordshire) but so far, any deal on offer from TBI is seen as being too expensive.

:{

[egnxema]

Hey Buster - is that a picture of Bill - or a picture of you ;-)

[Avro Arrow]

Not only are little brown bears applying for the Marketing Job at Luton, I hear a number of tour operator staff who have been looking over their shoulders are also interested. Watch out Buster! I'm not surprised that Mandy Round has left but if she did jump she got a pearler of a job to go to - Champagne, hot towels and Egg Foo Yong all the way to HKG!

I don't think there is conspriracy against Luton but there is definitely a structural change in the market occuring. CAA stats indicate Medium to Long haul charter/IT is on the rise and short haul on the wain. Herein lies Luton's problem - size matters. Ok so you can get an A330 off their runway to the US with 350 pax and you can operate Jumbos to Iceland but when it comes to mixing routes short to long with B767s etc, Luton's 2160m of concrete isn't in the game.

In terms of population, the 10m charter pax at LGW don't all live round there, they come from across the UK. Same at MAN too (8m).

Luton has had to fight for market share against the monopolistic BAA. What we need is competition in the South East. Although on tough market, Luton has moved its market share from 5% to neraly 6%. It may not seem much but they have had to lower their prices to get the traffic.

AA

[CAP670]

A well placed source tells me that at Southampton (runway length just 1732 metres), BAA (which owns and operates the Airport) is subsidising many of the IT/charter flights to the Med's hot spots by covering the cost of the seats that have to remain unfilled because of payload/weight limitations operating off Southampton's short runway.

Don't know what load factor BAA pays the operators involved to achieve, but maybe TBI at Luton should do likewise with some of the long-haul charter operators.

They might then operate a few medium to long-haul charter services out of Luton with a payload restriction but without a loss of revenue.

But if TBI still has to pay the Council its slice of the cake, an arrangement like this might not stack up as a sound business proposition from TBI's perspective.

Then again, there'd be all that terminal retail spend, and a big hike in Luton's pax figures might do wonders for TBI's share price!


:ok:

[LTNman]

CAA stats indicate Medium to Long haul charter/IT is on the rise and short haul on the wain. Herein lies Luton's problem - size matters. Ok so you can get an A330 off their runway to the US with 350 pax and you can operate Jumbos to Iceland but when it comes to mixing routes short to long with B767s etc, Luton's 2160m of concrete isn't in the game.

Britannia used to operate 767’s from Luton to Australia via Bahrain so is it really a problem?

The following is a link to a couple of maps of possible stand, taxiway and extended runway layouts which is on TBI’s wish list. Warning this is a 5Meg file so a broadband connection is advisable.
http://www.london-luton.co.uk/pdf/download/SERAS2-Diagrams.PDF The 7 page
PDF document shows 2 layouts. The first layout gives Luton an extra 18
stands but the central area short term car park and easyjet buildings
disappear. This would give Luton an extra 6 stands while two aprons of 6
stands each are shown to the east of taxiway delta.

The second layout is the same as the first but with a second runway and
a further 105 stands. Both maps show Luton with 3000m runways. It's just a shame that they haven’t got any dosh to pay for it.