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Brain Potter
23rd Jun 2004, 00:20
I am looking forward to a (thankfully) short holiday charter flight at the weekend and as I am quite tall was thinking about phoning the airline to try to get an emergency exit seat with some extra legroom. However their website is offering such seats as an "upgrade" - at a price obviously. I know the airline needs every last pound but it doesn't seem right to offer these seats as a different class. I thought that only certain categories of pax were supposed to be put next to the exit ie capable of opening it and not likely to hang around trying to get kids/granny out. Any thoughts on the legality of this practice?

Jerricho
23rd Jun 2004, 02:07
Hi B.P.

Been discussed before here (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=130181&highlight=emergency+exit+seats) and here (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=121923&highlight=emergency+exit+seats) . Sorry, but it really boils my piss.

flybywire
27th Jun 2004, 02:15
ABP: "A phisically and mentally fit person, not old, possibly travelling on their own, ideally a dead-heading cabin crew. Must be over 14 and able to operate an emergency exit in case of an evacuation. Passengers requiring an ESB cannot occupy such seats in any circumstances."
...
"In case the passenger who has purchased the emergency seat does not fulfil the requirements for the occupation of such seat, they will be relocated to another seat and the fare paid will not be refunded."

This comes from FCA's cabin crew SEP manual and Cabin Services manual.

FCA charge 15 for an "extra legroom" seat (emergency exit on the short-haul fleet) when the pax books it over the phone they are asked specific questions. The contract they then receive states clearly that if in the opinion of the cabin crew they do not fulfil those specific requirements they will be moved and they won't get a refund.

I, personally, have moved lots of people... Old people or simply people who were chatting and joking during the emergency demonstration or didn't pay any attention to my
ABP specific briefing.
I don't want to be offensive but I take these things very seriously and, having experienced an emergency landing in the past, I am glad that the person sitting in front of me knew what he was doing, was neither drunk, nor so overweight to need an ESB.

You can buy these seats for 15 OW but I know many airlines (like FCA) offer ABP seats as part of special packages like the wedding one, which also has an upgraded meal and champagne.

I personally disagree with this practice. As much as I disagree with ground agents giving these seats to pregnant women (in need of space) people with young kids (believe me, it happens all the time) or leaving them last, so to be filled by the last people who check-in.

You want an emergency seat? just check-in early and ask for it...and prove you can help me if I need you!!! :):):)

Cheers!!!;)

FBW.


**ten minutes to landing**

speedbird_heavy
27th Jun 2004, 09:44
As much as I disagree with ground agents giving these seats to pregnant women (in need of space) people with young kids (believe me, it happens all the time) or leaving them last, so to be filled by the last people who check-in.

9 times out of 10 you will find that the pax will request these seats via their travel agents. As travel agents are on commision, they dont care who they sell the seats to. The airline will then allocate these seats to the pax. So if one or two do slip through at the desk then yes we are to blame but please remember to shout at your airline aswell for allocating those seats in the first place.

radeng
28th Jun 2004, 13:31
It's true that travel agents are often to blame. I was booked on internal American Airlines flight recently in an exit row window seat by the agent: I didn't know it was exit row, but the check in agent fully agreed that I shouldn't have that seat - I walk with a stick! - but needed an aisle seat elsewhere. But if I wonder if in all the fuss of loading, I could have ended up in a exit row window? But the agent thought theywere doing me a favour.....

St Helens
29th Jun 2004, 09:29
As a frequent flyer I find myself in agreement with Flybywire on this. Despite the number of times I travel and as aircraft are becoming almost identical inside I still listen to the safety briefing and always look for the exit nearest my seat as I board. Mentally I always plan how I am going to reach it if required to.
I have sat next to the over wing exit on many a flight and I have found that the cabin crew have ALWAYS made a point of explaining how it operates which I found very comforting. I even had one young lady ask if I was ok with her explanation to which she added 'Please don't open it for extra ventilation - you have a control in the panel above your head'

These exits exist to evacuate the passengers should the need arise and to clear the a/c in a given time for the numbers carried and are not there as some marketing tool or as a sop to fatty who wants all the room he/she can get The final say on who sits there must be down to the cabin crew and not a travel agent trying to make a sale or a check in person bowing to a moaning pax.

Just my observation for what it worth, but if you are like me next time you board don't just look for the exit but see who is sitting next to it because you may need to climb over them.;)

OFBSLF
29th Jun 2004, 16:36
As a frequent flyer I find myself in agreement with Flybywire on this. Despite the number of times I travel and as aircraft are becoming almost identical inside I still listen to the safety briefing and always look for the exit nearest my seat as I board. Mentally I always plan how I am going to reach it if required to.It's been several years since I did the road-warrior thing (thank goodness I'm out of that business). One year I did 125,000+ miles, travelling 50 weeks out of 52.

On every flight, I located the nearest exit and an alternate. On every flight, I review the seat-pocket evacuation card and try to memorize how the nearest exit operates. If I'm sitting in an exit row, I compare the evacuation instructions on the card to the exit, to make very sure that I know how to operate the exit. I also check to see if the aircraft has floor lighting that would guide me to an exit. If I'm close to an exit, I count the number of seatbacks that I would pass to get to the exit, so that hopefully I could find it in poor visibility.

But no, I did not listen to the safety briefing. I know how to fasten and remove the seat belt. I know how to put on the O2 mask. I know where the evacuation briefing card is -- I've already read it.

I do my checks long before the safety briefing -- as soon as I sit down and get settled.

OFBSLF

WHBM
29th Jun 2004, 17:37
These exits exist to evacuate the passengers should the need arise and to clear the a/c in a given time for the numbers carried and are not there as some marketing tool or as a sop to fatty who wants all the room he/she can get :ok: :ok:

Mk 9 Lives
6th Jul 2004, 17:25
Genuine exit seat story:

Having endured a 9 hr flight across the pond, sitting next to an elderly couple handing out Werther's Originals to me every 5 mins and neither of them being able to operate the in-flight movie screen; just watching the world map and seeing the a/c inch its way across the screen, I sympathise with all people who are genuine occupiers of these important seats. I quote:

"Oh look, we're now over Greenland." (points at screen)
"What's that, my dear?" (adjusts earpiece)
"We're over Greenland." (louder)
"Mmm, looks a long way down." (leans toward window)
"Werther's Original, young man?" (smiles)

As a military pilot, I might have some extra influence / leverage on getting an exit seat, but alas, no - this was a lucky placing. Selling the seats appears to contravene CAA guidelines (?), but one thing's for certain - airlines beware: litigation from passengers if the exit lane is blocked by the infirm or incompetent! Is this too harsh?

Any top tips from cabin crew?! I'm off on hols at the end of July...wish me luck.

MonarchA330
6th Jul 2004, 18:18
Having worked as cabin crew and now check in staff, it is good to see that the check in staff are told only to allow people who do fit the ABP description to purchase such seats. Anyone who asks for an exit seat as they have a broken leg or bad back are told the reason why they can't have that seat.

As crew, the efficiency of the check in staff in this matter is much appreciated as it saves a lot of problems once the pax have boarded.

As for selling them, I don't see a problem with this, so long as the person buying the seat is told of the responsibilities that go with the seats and does indeed fit the description of and ABP.

Plus, it will encourage people to check in early to try and get these seats, minimising the risk of last minute pax delaying the A/C!

jonathang
7th Jul 2004, 13:57
Check-in staff are not always to blame with these mistakes.

When the airline requires that they charge for Emergency Exit seats and nobody is interested the last passengers often get them for free.

Problems mainly arise when the last 20 passengers are 5 families of 4 travelling with your children.

At this late stage seat changes at the gate and on board are required.

The passenger is often allowed their boarding card with the incorrect seat until they get to the gate so that they can complete the security process etc.

It does not take a genius to see why these seats are sometimes mis-allocated. Bad communication to the gate can result in the passengers making it onboard. Cabin crew checks usually pick this up.

Elvis21
7th Jul 2004, 15:30
I too have tried in vein to get these seats but to no avail (even posted a thread on this last year). At 6ft3 and able bodied every inch makes a difference. I am flying to Thailand with BA next week.
Any tips?

Jerricho
7th Jul 2004, 17:27
Elvis, I had a rant and a rave about this not that long ago.

On more than one occasion I turned up to check in VERY early (and I'm talking like 6 hours before..........great when you live near the airport ;) ), and have been told on more than one occasion the seats had been reserved or already taken (this has happened with more than one carrier in more than one country). Lo and behold, get on the jet and the punters sitting in emergency exits could be described as a very loose interpretation of able bodied pax. It makes my urine boil.................