Heli-laning over London / Helicopters buzzing around Heathrow (merged)

[The Nr Fairy]

All :

I'm taking an R44, with instructor, and two pax, over London next Saturday to see the sights, UK February weather permitting.

I've been leafing through the AIP and can't find anything official about the heli lanes. There's the CAA chart, which I'll peruse beforehand, and the instructor, who's done this sort of thing before, but that's it as far as I can see.

Two Q's arise. First, is there any source of info which is even remotely official ( I don't have a Pooley's or similar ) ? In Australia, the ERSA gives detailed info on the heliroutes around Sydney Harbour. Secondly, does this give official carte blanche to those inclined to blat up the heli lanes around London with no prior experience or information ? Doesn't sound too clever to me . . .

[This message has been edited by The Nr Fairy (edited 05 February 2001).]

[gokel]

In Spain It´s illegal flying over cities unless for twins helo´s. And you need an special autorization to do so.

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[hoverbover]

Nr Fairey
Heli Routes through London are pretty well explained/shown on the Helicopter Routes in the London Control Zone Chart.ie Min/Max heights. single/twin routes etc.And which routes may/may not be available due to Heathrow etc.

However the Pages (599 thru 612 I think)in Pooleys are almost a must if you haven't been through before these explain entry procedures into the London CTR and limitations on weather/vis etc.

They are usually helpful but expect you to be very accurate in your flying and when you have looked at the chart you'll realise why!

It also gets busy, As you are doing it with the instructor who has prior experience it shouldn't be a problem,but I wouldn't attempt it on my own for the first time(Being myself only a few hundred hour novice when it comes to the art of rotary wing flying)You'll be surprised how difficult it is to follow the chart on certain routes and the landmarks to fly to/from are also important to find to give you your route.

Im sure more experinced heli routers would have more to add, these are just my experiences.

Regards
hoverbover

PS
This is my first posting hope it works OK.

[Fortyodd]

Nr Fairy,
E-mail on it's way.

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Whilst all reasonable care has been taken, this product may contain traces of nuts.......

[A109]

Please don't fly around without at least a Pooleys it is, along with a relevant chart, the very minimum that a GA helicopter pilot ought to have with them in the cockpit. One of the many things that stops people blatting in to the Heathrow Zone, which is after all category A Airspace, without experience is the fact that the Special VFR position at Heathrow can see if you are within 25 yards of the blue line on the routes map and while they will be very understanding over minor transgressions will, if pushed, rightly tell you to turn towards the nearest boarder of the Zone and push off out of their airspace. To save any embarrassment like that, please study the Pooleys pages, carry the routes map and adhere strictly to the heights thereon. I even put the waypoints in a route on the GPS in case I suddenly need to use a route which I haven't used for a long while. This will help all the poor sods living under the routes as well as all the helicopter pilots who hope to have an industry in the future. There is a dreadful American saying " Fly Neighbourly" Of course, we prefer "Fly In A Neighbourly Fashion" but the idea is the same and knowing the routes well is part of that.

[eden]

It is very true to say that the routes are very closely monitored by Mr SVFR at Heathrow, it is IMPERATIVE that you are fully briefed by both the Instructor and yourself on the procedures. Pooleys is good and is an essential item in the prep' for entering the routes along with a current map. If as you say this is your first time, I suggest you either do the map work or fly, sharing the workload with ya instructor. If you try and do both first time, you aren't going to get much from it other than mayhem and a snide comment from ATC or worse.

Another little tip is if it is your first time in the routes give the SVFR controller at Heathrow a phone call and tell him your intended route. Ask him questions - if you aren't sure about the procedures you've read. He won't give you special treatment but he will take you seriously and you will have at least cleared up any confusion from the horses mouth.

Use GPS if you have it - but DON'T rely on it .....back it up with some approx timing marks on the 1:50,000 and 1:250,000 (for the big picture) - it will all help to give you that feeling of staying ahead of the game.

Excuse me if I'm stating the bleedin' obvious and I'm sure other pilots will feel differently, but this is how I might approach my first time all over again.

You'll be busy - but you're pax will get a great view of 'The Smoke'.

[Floppy Link]

Got to agree about accuracy - fly the route exactly as shown on the chart. That's why it's a 50,000 chart.
Got a rollocking from radar once for being about 200 m off the lane!
But the views are well worth the effort.
F L

[Flying Lawyer]

I agree with all that's been said about thorough pre-flight planning, and accurate flying.
Three additional tips:
(1) Your first radio call is very important; try to sound as professional as possible. Plan what you need to say, and be ready to read the clearance back accurately. You can anticipate the likely clearance, but watch for variations. eg You might not be cleared at that stage for the entire route you've requested.
Your first call will reveal whether or not you know what you are doing. If you appear to be struggling at the first "hurdle" you may find yourself being made to hold for a (suspiciously) long time!
(2) Check Heathrow ATIS for runway info before you call Heathrow Radar. H3 is usually closed if the Easterly runways are being used, and restricted if Rwy 23 is in use. If your route home is along H3, be prepared to request (and fly) an alternative route in case the runways change whilst you are airborne.
(3) Remember SVFR does not absolve you from complying with Rule 5(1)(e). eg The London Eye (on H4) is 464' amsl!

The London controllers are very professional and, provided your flying is equally professional, you'll enjoy wonderful views of London.
The Heathrow crossing (H9) is a spectacular experience, low level across the airport, but IMHO should definitely not be attempted unless you are with someone who's familiar with the route and the holding points.

Enjoy your flight!


[This message has been edited by Flying Lawyer (edited 06 February 2001).]

[Multp]

Details of SVFR clearances in the LHR CTZ can be found in the AIP AD Section, London Heathrow, page refs AD2-EGLL-1-24 through to -1-32. There's an A4 size chart on page -3-2.
BTW, if you have the AIP CD-Rom it's slightly easier to search than leafing through the massive books and you can do yourself a print out.
Agree with all the previous comments. Enjoy!

[Hoverman]

Flying Lawyer
If I can borrow (and adapt) a recent post of yours on another topic:
"It's bad enough non-professionals giving advice, but getting it right is going too far!" :)
Sound, practical advice.
Are you really only a PPL? :)

Nr Fairy
A slight note of caution.
F/L is obviously familiar with the Heathrow crossing and, from what I've heard, is not your "average" PPL.
You shouldn't even consider attempting it unless you are with someone like him, or an instructor who knows the crossing well - and not all instructors do.
IMHO the Heathrow crossing is the one part of the routes which should not be attempted just by looking at the charts and Pooley's. Heathrow Tower contollers have a phenomenally high workload and understandably expect you to react quickly and accurately to their instructions.
We face ever increasing restrictions, and we dread the thought of a PPL being thrown by the pressure and screwing things up. It wouldn't take much for the powers that be to decide that the crossing should be closed - one airliner being required to overshoot because of a PPL misunderstanding an instruction would probably do it!

Please don't think I'm getting at PPLs, I'm not, I'm just being practical.

[This message has been edited by Hoverman (edited 06 February 2001).]

[ANOrak]

Nr Fairy,

Good luck on Saturday and I hope you and your passengers enjoy the flight. There has to be a first time!

Two items of advice: Firstly fly at max route altitude at all times because it reduces the chances of upsetting the townies below. Secondly, if things go a bit wrong and you are losing the plot, tell ATC and ask the controller to put you back on the route. If he is worth his salt, and most of them are, he will be only too pleased to assist. They get hacked off with those who are too arogant (or stupid) to ask.

[Hoverman]

Forgot to say congratulations for starting a thread which hasn't turned into an anti-Robinson debate - although mentioning you were going to do the trip in an R44 was tempting fate!
This is a good illustration of the value of Rotorheads. A PPL asks a question, and is immediately helped by professionals and a more experienced PPL.
It's good to see the forum back on track after some turbulence which now seems to have subsided - for ever, I hope.

Thanks Lu - hope this is a good omen for the future.

[This message has been edited by Hoverman (edited 07 February 2001).]

[EESDL]

Here, Here!
Pooley's doesn't cover everything, view the AIP as already suggested. Try and get a copy of the Military HLS book (useful info re Heli-lanes and Heathrow in particular).
Enjoy your flight
I'm not due out of hibernation until March:-(

[[email protected]]

Once you've done it a few times and got the routes sorted, get yourself in a twin and try it at night. On a good night it makes the day stuff look rather routine and the LHR crossing is much easier because their traffic volume is much lower. H3 is easy at night cos you fly from dark bit to dark bit but H10 is a bit of a bugger!
Enjoy the trip and make full use of all the very good advice that has been posted.

[The Nr Fairy]

The pertinent and non-personal parts of Forty-odd's email concerned changes to H10 now following the new line of the A40, the fact that after 12:30 City CTR is closed, which makes things slightly easier, and a recommendation to buy my own copy of Pooleys !! All the above is in the public domain, it's just that a kind person wanted to make my life a bit easier.

Also, as other people have mentioned, if you know of ( or are provided by a kind PPRuNer ) a contact to get a copy of the Military HLS guide apparently there's a very good brief in it about the heli-lanes. My blagged copy is waiting for me at home !!

[The Nr Fairy]

For those of you in Southern England this weekend, it should come as no surprise that I got weathered off my trip. Sunday would have been doable, if it wasn't for passengers !!

For future reference, though, this is what I've collated from the thread. Note none of it is from personal experience, it's all from the posts made and info read.

1. First timer heli-laners ( or even guys who've done it before but haven't done the LHR crossing ) should do it with an experienced pilot who knows the wrinkles - in my case this would have been an instructor who's done it several times before.

2. Get a Pooleys, Military HLS guide, or the relevant pages from the EGLL AIP pages, AD2-EGLL-1-24 through to -1-32 with an A4 size chart on page -3-2. Read them, digest them, then ask your instructor questions.

3. Get relevant charts ( edition 9 of the heli-lanes chart is current as I write ) and the 1/4-mill of Southern England for the approaches.

4. Check LHR ATIS before arrival - if the 09 runways are in use, H3 will probably be closed, and if 23 is in use, then use of H3 may be restricted. You'll need to give an ETA for the CTR boundary, so timing marks on the charts will help here.

5. On first call, include your preferred routing, but expect something different if the controllers know something you don't.

6. Fly the routes as shown on the map ( deviation is allowed in this game, but not hesitation, for opposite direction traffic ) and keep rule 5(1)(e) - the 500' rule - in mind. If possible, fly at max route altitude.

7. If you're losing the plot tell ATC - they'll help you if you admit it, and will chuck you out of the CTR if you cause them problems.

All I have to do now is wait for the right weather. Unless of course there's a twin pilot out there who can find a spare right hand seat sometime - I'd love to see it at night but twins are out of my budget at the moment !!

[This message has been edited by The Nr Fairy (edited 12 February 2001).]

[Pac Rotors]

Sydney, Australia has put into place a very efficent lane system that seems to work well and allows all to get to various points with the least amount of hassle and inconvenience. Any comments from those that have used it would be appreciated.

[The Nr Fairy]

I actually converted to helicopters when I was working in Sydney for a year. For those who've not done it, if you imagine a trip from Bankstown airport, in the west of Sydney, north to the Paramatta river ( which is the official name for the river which ends up in Sydney Harbour ), then you fly at 500' from Ryde bridges, eastbound to the southern pylon of the Harbour Bridge, then climb to 1000' over the outer part of the harbour. That's to keep underneath the departures and arrivals from Sydney International ( Kingsford Smith ).

You speak to Bankstown on the way out, then change to the R405 assigned frequency and make blind calls to let other users know what's going on. You keep right ( as standard ) of the centreline of the river, clear of the houses on the land, and it's a really impressive trip. It's helicopters only between the bridges at 500'.

To exit the Sydney area northbound, and to enter southbound, there are also lanes of entry and exit, defined by lights on buildings which are visible from the air, with defined heights and frequencies. You only talk to a controller when in range of Bankstown.

There are also defined helicopter entry routes to Sydney international, dependent on the runway in use, but I never went that way.

Now the harbour trip is great fun, and it also works because people stick to it. I suspect the reason it isn't set up like that in the UK is that there's a tad more paranoia about the consequences.

[Hoverman]

The Nr Fairey raises an interesting issue.
There is paranoia about being prosecuted for some infringement of the Regs. But, it's justified - just because we're paranoid doesn't mean the CAA Enforcement Branch doesn't exist!
What is it that makes people in the UK look for a reason to complain if they see a helicopter at close range? Americans don't rush to phone the police if they see a helicopter passing their window.
Americans who buy a house near an airfield accept that they have bought a house near an airfield. Brits buy the house, then try to close down the airfield.
ANOrak advised flying at maximum permitted altitude on the routes to avoid complaints. Very good advice. But helipilots don't seem to worry to the same extent in the States.
Why do Brits complain so quickly?
Is it the green-eyed monster?

[ANOrak]

Hoverman, you make a very good point yourself but this should not be under this topic. May I suggest that you start a new one because there is plenty more to say?

The British Helicopter Advisory Board has a Members' Day on 27th February which is to be attended by several representitives of the CAA (allegedly). It would be a good opportunity to ask their views.

[DOC.400]

mULTP -what do you mean, 'only a PPL'?!

Jeppesons also v clear on heli routes, incl reporting points, co-ordinates and description.

Have fun!

Nearest I can get in a single fix wing is a few SVFR cutting corners!

[sheenboy]

who 'polices' helicopters around the approaches to Heathrow? I regularly see them flying across / between / alongside aircraft coming into Heathrow, closer than I would think is safe. Who looks after this / what are the rules??

[Mr_Grubby]

Sheenboy.

The helicopters will be under the control of Heathrow Special VFR. When they need to cross the runways at Heathrow they will talk to the Tower. The rules about height and routings are very strict and safe. You need to speak to the Heathrow Director who is the expert on these maters.
I will PM him.

Clint.

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

Hi Sheenboy. Mr ex-colleague Mr Grubby suggested i take a look at your post.

Helicopter operations within the London area are strictly controlled and, with one or two exceptions, take place on accurately defined routes. Those you see under the approaches to Heathrow will be vertically separated from the commercial jets above with never less than 1,000 feet between them. Over central London the Heathrow inbounds will be around 3,000 ft and the helicopters down around 1,000 ft so there is plenty of room between them.

The rules for helicopter operations within the London Control Zone are laid down the in the AIP.

Hope this helps but email me direct at [email protected] if I can answer any more queries.

[GOLF-INDIA BRAVO]

Hi Heathrow Director and all

I understand from what sheenboy has said to be the crossing of the airport by helicopters at the thresholds ( am I correct sheenboy) , I was at the visitors centre last weekend and watches a precession of helicopters during the day
which I found facinating

From that a couple of questions

1 can any helicopter pilot with a PPL use this route? as it seems to me that a very high standard of airmanship is required

2 what is the prefered crossing procedure
as I presume a TCAS warning will be caused on each crossing

Golf -India Bravo

[Squadgy]

can any helicopter pilot with a PPL use this route? as it seems to me that a very high standard of airmanship is required

Your suggestion being that PPL(H)'s airmanship aren't of a very high standard ??:hmm:

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

I misunderstood; thought he meant a bit further out! Helicopter crossings are under the control of Heathrow Tower and are usually carried out in good visibility to enable the controller to apply visual separation between traffic. All the info is in the UK AIP, which is readily available on-line. I'll try and copy the relevant paragraphs and post them on here in the next day or two..

[Gonzo]

Regarding helicopters at LHR.....

Every so often we have police helicopters flying along the northern and southern perimeters. Yes, they appear close, but we only do this under certain cloud and visibility limits. We pass traffic information to every a/c, telling them where the helicopter is, and at all times we make sure the controller has the helicopter in sight.

Other helicopters crossing the airfield follow a procedure laid down in the AIP. Again, this is a 'good weather' procedure. The helicopter will be talking to the person controlling the landing runway, and he/she will identify a gap where it will be safest to cross the helicopter. He'll tell the helicopter to report when he is visual with the a/c that he is planning to cross behind, that done, the ATCO will warn the next landing a/c that a helicopter is crossing in front of him.

If the weather is not good, and the helicopter HAS to cross the airfield, rather than route around, then we need a big gap in the landing traffic.

PPL(H)s can cross Heathrow. However, I would advise that they know the AIP procedure inside and out. We find a great diversity of apparent ability in following the procedure, and it has been known for ATCOs to turn helicopters away if they have any doubts as to the pilot's ability to get it right. I would recommend any PPL(H), or anyone, who hasn't done the crossing procedure before to tell ATC, so then maybe we'll go for a bigger gap!
:ok:

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

<<PPL(H)s can cross Heathrow. However, I would advise that they know the AIP procedure inside and out. We find a great diversity of apparent ability in following the procedure, and it has been known for ATCOs to turn helicopters away if they have any doubts as to the pilot's ability to get it right. >>

Hear hear! I don't know who you are Gonzo but were you there when this one happened: PPL in a Strimmer (R22) was told "After departing xxx cross 27L, etc" and we lost sight of him.. The Lighting Op suddenly hollered "He's on 05 by the southern dual". When we told him to cross 27L he thought he had to land and air-taxi across!!!!

[Gonzo]

Nope, I arrived in 99....still wet behind the ears!

Never heard of that one. It is fascinating seeing how the geographical location of Sipson, Bedfont etc changes from day to day!

Ugh, R22 crossing the field with a strong headwind....... you start to imagine you can see it tacking against the wind!

[GOLF-INDIA BRAVO]

Squadgey

No I`m not saying that PPL`s are not of a high standard, but i`m sure I would not attempt to fly that until I had plenty of experience of working in a tight area with a lot of traffic around

Golf India Bravo

[sheenboy]

I originally meant the approaches to Heathrow but the replies here spark another question - why would a 'copter HAVE to cross Heathrow as opposed to route around it?

[Robbo Jock]

Sheenboy: it's not so much HAVE to. Crossing Heathrow is actually a very interesting and exciting experience, and one of the reasons I chose the 'routes when I used to take my mates up.

You need to have your wits about you.
As a PPL, it's a damn' good idea to 'do the heliroutes' with an instructor, to get the routes and radio sorted before trying it yourself. It's also a good idea to phone Heathrow ATC before launch: "I'm thinking of coming through at <time>, routing <whatever>, is there anything I should know?" and you'll get a briefing on your route, with the advantage that when you call them for zone entry, they'll have an idea of who you are and what you want to do, so they'll be ready for you.

My old favourite, when I used to fly out of Redhill, was West along the M25, zone entry at Oxshot, North over Sunbury Lock to hold at Bedfont (or Dual Taxiways, depending on clearance), over the top past Sipson to Notrtholt, East along Hanger Lane to the Gyratory, then South to join the Thames at Kew (down to 750 feet by here), then East along the Thames to the Dartford Crossing ('cos it's hard to miss :D ) and then right to follow the M25 back round to Redhill. Interesting for the passenger, busy on the radio, a challenge to fly accurately, but essentially easy - the only difficult bit was remembering when to leave the security of the M25 and strike off across country to Redhill ! :O

[Whirlybird]

I flew the heli-routes with an instructor as a fairly new PPL(H), and we did the Heathrow Crossing. When we called the Tower, the first thing they asked was whether we had done it before, and my instructor said he had. I rather got the feeling they might have turned us away if we hadn't. Anyway, we approached on the specified route, and were then told to hold. This is very easy in a helicopter, which can go at almost any speed, so we watched the landing aircraft, and were then asked if we were visual with the 747 on final. We said we were, and were then cleared to cross after he landed.

It was all absolutely clear what was required, and it wasn't difficult in terms of either flying or airmanship. Any PPL(H) should be able to do it, although going with someone else for the first time is obviously a good idea, in a fairly high workload environment where you need to follow instructions that closely and make sure you don't make a mistake. Having said that, it's a great experience, doing it for the first time. I'm sure it looks scary to onlookers, and as though the aircraft are very close together...it isn't and they aren't.

[Hover Bovver]

Sheenboy,

I think you will find it is safer for them to route the helicopters across the thresholds, as although it seems close it is a definite gate, were you know were to oppsing aircraft will be , because a; the planes have to land and take off from the runway! B; Even the most short sited of helicopter pilots should be able to see the thresholds and the fuel farm. Wereas if they were routed away from the field you would have to go miles away to get adequate safe separation.

I would also never hear a bad word said about the controllers at Heathrow, I have been in and out of LHR many times and they have always been superb. (It is actually easier and quicker than going in and out of Southampton in a Heli.)

[Flying Lawyer]

http://img48.photobucket.com/albums/v146/FlyingLawyer/Heliroutes_Tower_Bridge.jpg

[Pat Malone]

On May 15th members of the Helicopter Club of Great Britain flew Heathrow ATCOs on the London Heliroutes - a regular event which helps both sides understand the imperatives of the other.
There were 16 controllers (they draw lots) in seven helicopters, including EC120s, 44s, a 206, an AS350 and a Gazelle. The ATCOs get a great deal from it, especially an understanding of the workload on a single-pilot helicopter. And it gives them a whole new persperctive on their place of work.
It's also excellent public relations, not only for the HCGB but for all helicopter pilots.

[Three Blades]

I am concidering my first trip through London (with suitably qualified instructor) and have a question regarding H10.

Between Guteridge and Kew bridge, the route seems to pass over some heavily populated areas especially further east.
Now I appreciate that single engined helis are permitted on H4 on the basis that you ditch in the river in case of engine failure but what is the plan on H10 ? Is it really as built up as it looks ?

The other routes all seem to pass closer to parks/playing fields etc.

Thanks

[headsethair]

H10 is not as congested as you may think. It follows the A40 in with some good greenspace along the south side. Then it follows the west side of the North Circular to Kew Bridge - again with greenspace beneath you. And then you're onto the river - which isn't part of R160 (The Specified Area) so you are permitted to "alight" in the river.
There is no specific rule banning single engine heli flights over R160 - but ALL helicopters have to be able to alight clear of R160 in the event of a power failure.
Look in the EGLL listing of the UK AIP "Aerodromes" website for the full rules.

[Three Blades]

headsethair,

Thanks for the clarification on H10, I'm pleased to hear that there is a tad of green nearby.
I have taken a good look at the AIP stuff and read a lot of what is on this forum; hence my plan to take the instructor.

'alight' certainly looks better than 'ditch' !

Thanks

[Oogle]

Wow, by the sounds of it all you are in big trouble if you don't do the right thing.

I'm scared of trying it myself after hearing all this.

"Don't do this, don't do that, make sure you do this, if you don't sound professional they won't like you......"

PPL pilots take note - ATC is not a big bad monster. They are here to help and assist - as YOU must do when given a direction.

I have always found UK ATC extremely helpful.:eek:

[DBChopper]

PPL pilots take note - ATC is not a big bad monster. They are here to help and assist - as YOU must do when given a direction.

And they are fantastic! Ok, maybe a little scary, but the guys and gals you speak to when flying the heliroutes and in particular crossing LHR are some of the busiest in the country and are unlikely to want to divert 300-odd pax in a Boeing because I'm numptying around in me R22 ;)

I think it also bears remembering the privelege of being able to operate over London as we do, and not risk throwing it all away by bad airmanship, a fact recognised by the controllers and clearly by many posters on this subject.

That said, if you fellow PPLs have not done it, get yourself an instructor and a helicopter and go for it - the experience is unforgettable!
:ok:

[Heliport]

London City airspace changes


The CAA has approved an airspace change to establish a new Class D Control Area (CTA) in the vicinity of London City Airport.

The CTA is additional to the existing London City Control Zone and is intended to enhance the containment of existing London City flight procedures within controlled airspace whilst minimising the overall impact on other airspace users.

The new airspace arrangements will take effect on 13 April 2006.

Advance details of the changes will be published in AlC 19/2006 (Yellow 194) dated 2 March 2006.

The airspace change will be incorporated in the 1:500,000 Aeronautical Chart 'Southern England' Edition 32 that will be published on 16 March 2006 with a note to indicate that the airspace change does not come into effect until 13 April 2006.

The change will also be incorporated in the 1:250,000 Aeronautical Chart ‘England South' (Sheet 8) Edition 10, to be published on 13 April 2006.




Heliport