An ambitious 15 year old needs your help!!!

[arpansingla]

Hello people,

I'm 15 years old, and since the age of 7 i have really want to become a commercial pilot. i have reserached on the net, and spoken to friends and family as regards to this topic, and now i have become confused as to what my first steps should be. Some say i should join the RAF, some say i should pay for my training privately, while others say i should apply for sponsorships. I would be really grateful to hear from people who are currently commerical pilots, or even ex-pilots, as to how they got their jobs, and the steps they took to achieve it.

Thanks
Arpan

[busz]

Work hard at school and get good grades at GCSE and A-level. At the moment, that is what you should be focussing on. Aim for the highest grades so that any future employer (whether it be the RAF or an airline) can see that you are a cut above the rest. Trust me, a decent education opens many, many doors for you.

Just my 2 cents,

Alex:O

[Valkyr]

I agree with busz. I am 17 and just finished my AS Levels. Focus on your GCSE and A-Level grades first, and it always helps to get some flying in whenever you can.

There are so many routes to take, that you need to look into all the options, and it depends on your finacial status. If your family are able to support you financially then paying your way into the business is a good option, but always keep a look out for any sponsorships. I would have a browse for sponsorships now over the net just to get a rough idea of whats out there.

Also start thinking about your PPL, because thats your first step towards becoming a commercial pilot. Look around for PPL sponsorships or schools that do PPL courses, if you can pay for it yourself.

Obviously I'm not a commercial pilot, but this is just one option for you which I think is quite a good one. Other people will have other routes to take, so don't just take my advice.

Good luck,

Val

[NW3]

arpansingla -

It's frustrating, as it seems's like you're going to have to wait for AAAGGEESSSSS, but the wait could be useful, as if you're still feeling the same in a few years time as you are today, you know it's definitely right for you. Having said that, it's been 8 years already... shut up NW3.

What I'd suggest is you get hold of the PPL books (
http://www.afeonline.com/afeshop/en-gb/dept_59.html kind of thing) and read up on them - assuming you haven't done so already.

From there, I agree totally with what the others have said - get good GCSEs and A-Levels (or whatever they're called now... I'm only 23 and they've changed since I took mine :)) - and if you can stand it, get Physics, Geography, and Maths under your belt at A-Level. You need a plan B just in case, so don't close tooo many doors just yet.

Apart from that, keep reading pprune - you're much more likely to get a good feeling of the state the industry's in from here than from a careers advisor, and you'll know what the deal is with sponsorship schemes. The CTC Mcalpine scheme is a good example of the kind of thing you may want to try and get on to, so have a read of that thread and you'll see what sort of thing is going to help.

Sorry about the ramble...

NW3

[scroggs]

Don't think of the RAF as a route to commercial flying; they want people who want primarily to do military flying and nothing else (and are prepared for the possibility of being killed as a consequence of that decision). It is only when their engagements are coming to an end that RAF pilots think about the commercial option. You will not get past the first CIO interview if you reveal that your ambition is to be a commercial pilot.

As for your actions now, your schoolwork must be your priority. During the long summer holidays, get yourself to a local flying club and offer to help out. You may find that they'll give you the occasional trip as well as a small amount of money for your efforts. When you can afford it, consider doing a PPL. However, research carefully what commercial sponsorships are around and what their terms are when you get to that stage, as some prefer their candidates not to have a PPL.

At some point you will need to consider the possibility that you may not be successful in your ambition (as many are not), and that therefore you'll have to earn a living another way. Consider carefully what other occupations might interest you, and make sure that you are in a position to go that way should the need arise.

Best of luck!

Scroggs

[waspie]

Many people will tell you all sorts of things (specially on forums!), but dont be put off if people say "its too difficult" or something like that. It is hard, however, if it wasnt then airline pilots wouldnt have the reputation they have would they.
The main thing to remember is that things change, ALL the time.
Sponsorship at the moment is a no no, non existent basically. You can get it, but have very little chance. However, pilot recruiting goes up and down like a yo-yo. In five years from now there may be a shortage. We just dont know. Therefore, it is vital you plan for anything that could happen. I am a fool, purely because I do not have a back-up plan. I am 17 and I cannot even imagine not becoming a pilot. I should have a back-up plan because the amount of trainee pilots who never get jobs is staggering. So always have a plan B!

Read all you can to do with aviation. Get work experience wherever you can. I had 4 days work experience with GO Airlines, of which 2 days were in the flight deck (not bad!). Nowadays you cannot get into the flight deck. Now, this is a complicated story and so I will do my best to explain what I mean. As I have said, these days you will not get into the flight deck (unless your flying the plane!). I was told exactly the same thing when I phoned GO Airlines asking if it was possible for me to get into the flight deck with them. They said no way, absolutely impossible. I let it go at that, I told my dad there was no way. Anyway, he phones them up and asks who can go into the flight deck. They said employees only. So my dad then got onto the fleet manager at GO. Between them they worked out that I could get into the flight deck, because if I did work experience then I would be a temporary employee.
The meaning of this being; there is always a solution to the problem. DO NOT give up. I have nothing but respect for the airline pilots of today, this is what makes me want to become a pilot (among many other things!). Use what drives you to keep you interested. I dont enjoy reading "Navigation" books, but I do it because it increases my chances of becoming a pilot. Do the same and you will make it with a little luck!

One last point, employers do not think academics are everything. I am not implying that the person above meant this, nor am I implying that they dont matter. They matter a lot! But they arent everything, and so if you arent a strong academic (I'm certainly not, aiming for two B's and a C at A-level which isnt great) then dont be put of.
Sorry for going on a bit and I wish you all the best.
waspie
Mark Wilson

[scroggs]

Mark,

I welcome your contribution, but please do not assume that at 17 you have a good idea of what employers want - academically or in any other way. At your age and experience level you should be taking, not giving, advice.

Scroggs

[Mooney12]

Scroggs,

Don't knock wannabes for putting their views forward when another wannabe asks for advice. If someone asks for advice on a wannabes forum such as this he/she should expect to receive a mixture of advice, some good, some bad from a mixture of wannabes and professional pilots. In this case Marks views are perfectly sensible and he makes some good points.

If you continue to tell wannabes off for giving advice you will be defeating the point of these forums. I myself have read these forums for a few years now and I have read and taken onboard a multitude of advice and tips from "wannabes" which definately helped me get my sponsorship. These forums are designed for wannabes to pool all their experiences (few as they may be) and views. Don't keep knocking people for giving advice when it is asked.

[scroggs]

Mooney,

yes, perhaps I was a bit curt! My point is that it's quite difficult for a brand new wannabe to sort the wheat from the chaff when advice is offered, and they may not know how to weight the various posts they read.

Whilet Waspie's post isn't exactly incorrect, he has little or no experience to back his advice, and thus his post's value is moot. A sixth form student should be wary of offering advice to other sixth form students about the world of work; they do not have the necessary knowledge - though I understand it's tempting to see one's name in print! Better to sit back and read what the experienced people have to say, until they have some experiences of their own to share.

Scroggs

[waspie]

Except for the fact Scroggs that everything I have said is what other airline pilots have told me, thus its the airline pilots views that I know, not mine. Just trying to help him. And often when wannabees ask for advice on forums they get little or no response for pilots. From now on I will not advise people, nor will I continue to use this forum.

[scroggs]

Actually, they get a great deal of response from employed pilots, many of whom are extremely busy yet take the time out to give advice here because such advice was very difficult to come by when they were wannabes themselves.

I'm sorry you have taken offence at my post, but I will not withdraw anything I have said. If you wish to deny yourself the use of this forum, that is your prerogative.

Scroggs

[ali1]

Fair play to you waspie,

If i could have given advice like that at 17 I would have been proud.

[BitMoreRightRudder]

Have to agree with Scroggs guys.

There is plenty of advice on pprune for us wannebes. The tricky bit, as has been mentioned, is wading through the (well intentioned) misleading comment and recognising the good advice from those, such as Scroggs, who have extensive experience within the job.

There is some useful information offered by wannebes on pprune, but i would suggest this is mainly to be found in the sponsorship threads (sadly few and far between themselves). These threads usually contain information that gives the applicant a 'heads up' of the tests/scenarios/questions they are likely to face and really are nothing more than factual accounts. Advice on what the airlines find attractive in a potential recruit really is something that is best coming from those who have been there and done it.

It would be a shame to turn your back on pprune waspie, the good information I found on here I can safely say played a significant part in preparing me for various interviews and ultimately in helping me gain a sponsorship.

The wannebes forum mods give freely of their time to offer sound, neutral advice that will cost you nothing.

Good luck to you all


[:ok:

[simonp]

I am looking at this debate with interest. Yes the advice from seasoned pilots would probably be the best, but then advice from peers possibly trying to do the same thing may also carry some weight.
Time scale also comes into it....what held true 10 years ago may no longer be the case. I saw somebody post up that one should go and offer their services to a local flying school or similar. That may have worked some time ago, but try that now. I have trying to get my daughter a weeks worth of "work experience" at flying inststitutions as opposed to the local dentist. She already has time in the Grob and gliding through ATC but the replies are all the same " No can do due to safety and insurance" considerations. I am really beginning to think the litigatious society that we are developing sucks. I used to spend my holidays working at a local service station dispensing petrol, cleaning battery terminals, greasing bearings, 12 hours a day for a piyttance and there was no hassles of health and safety, parents signing indemnity. I think a lot of kids are being denied these days.

[Global Pilot]

Scroggs, please bear in mind who will be reading your replys. I have been in this industry for some time and am well beyond 17 but I found your posts curt and annoying. As a moderator I find it almost irresonsible of you.

While young wannabees may not have the wisdom and knowledge that the rest of us have, they come to this site for just that and it is up to us to pass it on to them. It needs to be passed on in a way that is fully informative and encouraging at the same time. Advice from other wannabees should be welcomed, we always need to listen to our peers.

Waspie I hope you have returned to the forum and you will continue to make contributions. They are welcomed and necessary for us all to move forward.

Arpansingle: Finish your work at school, consider college! Work part time and during the summer at your local airport. Try to get into some side of an airline's operations. When you complete college you will have greater working knowlege of airlines and airports, be able to study properly and possibly have some money put aside to start funding your own training. During this time research sponsorship schemes just to make sure you don't miss something but they will be there when your college course is complete.

Wannabees...keep asking questions?
Pilots...keep offering advice
Moderators...keep doing the good work you do to protect the forum...

[AIRWAY]

Hello,

Not to create a bad vibe here, i respect everyone and their opinions.

I am still a student pilot and starting university soon. but when i started my flying training i read a really informative book ( 02FO ) that taught me to keep this 4 types of aviation personnel in mind, they call it the " Four Friends":

- Sceptics
- Sharks
- Know all or Hangar Pilots
- Government Bureaucrats

You will find them along your career.

Just to finnish i agree to a certain extent with everyone's point of view.

Like Scroggs said and it is true we should listen to the professionals, but as wannabes we should also be asking questions, this is one of the ways where we will be gaining knowledge and apply that information gained when necessary, regardless your age.

This is a forum, we exchange information, we learn from each other, we discuss.

Happy Flying
AIRWAY

[pancho]

Excellent post Global, I fully agree with you. Advice can come from all ages to all ages. I’ve been in this business for a long time and am regularly accompanied in my high velocity aluminium office by people almost half my age and there are times when their advice or suggestions to me have been welcome and helpful. Without question, experience gives you more knowledge to advise but the young people in question are perfectly entitled to offer their advice on the grounds of their experience to date, the “golden oldies” do not have an exclusive right to passing on “the knowledge”.

Arpan, here’s a possible plan: Imperative…..use your second level education to get you to college, get a degree in something you would enjoy as a career if flying does not work out OR if at some time in the future you get bored with regular commercial flying or can no longer do it (it happens), deciding on a flying career does not rule out other studies and go for the highest grades you can. In the meantime start studying for the PPL, begin chipping away at the old block. If you see airline sponsorship schemes being offered later on apply for them (that’s the best way if are lucky enough), if you fancy a military career think carefully about the implications.

Above all, always stay focused on your target and always give yourself options, both are compatible and necessary, infact that’s the way I approach my daily flying routine.

And that was good advice Waspie, they only thing is you will have to keep reading those “Navigation” books (and more) even years after you’ve become a pilot, it’s part of the job I’m afraid!! :) :ok:

[arpansingla]

I would just like to say a big thank you to everyone who took the time to give me such good advice:D