Avionic licence??

[noisy]

Hello All,

I am developing my electronic skills. This is career I would never have considered as a kid, but now I have to make the best of it.

This means I am completely ignorant of what goes on in the avionics maintenance world. I know that when the maintenance shop at my local airfield have a sick radio to deal with they subcontract to a specialist.

What do you have to do to repair avionics, what exams etc.

Thanks,

Noisy

[Lear_doctor]

Sounds from your post about a 'local airfield' that you are talking about light aircraft work. In qualification terms there is a difference.

'Small' Aircraft radio work.

You need three things to repair light aircraft radio equipment on your own.

1. Some ability.

It may seem strange, but fixing light aircraft radio systems can be a challenge. There are several different types of radio equipment from several different manufacturers. If you have never had any guidance from somebody with experience in the job, starting from scratch would be an uphill struggle.

2. Test equipment and books

This is not cheap. Major pieces are (but not limited to) NAV401/2L and ATC600A minimum. Even some of the very lightest aircraft are having mode S transponders fitted which means your ATC600A will not be enough. Also you need all the books from the manufacturers for repair work and installations, with the update service of course.

3. A licence

'Light aircraft' work can still be certified using a CAA issued BCAR licence. Refer to the CAA website and look for BCAR section L. It's the 'R' licence you interested in. CAA Airworthiness Notice 3 also has relevant information. You will note an experience requirement, which may cause you some trouble. You will also need a type rating to the basic licence, paragraph 12.2 and 12.3 of CAA Airworthiness Notice 10 if you intend to work alone.

With the above three things in place you can be the 'specialised' subcontractor you referred to in your original post.

Large aircraft radio work.

Different game altogether this. You need to be working for an approved company to certify work on large (>5700kg) commercial aircraft. There is some complexity I won’t go into as it does not appear relevant in this case (existing CAA licence holders), but for this type of work you need a JAA (now EASA) JAR66 B2 licence. This is a big task. If you want details of how to achieve this please send me a private message and I will talk you though it on the phone.

Hope the above helps


Regards


The Doc

[noisy]

Lear Doctor,

Thanks for your thorough reply, I think that with the increasing use of shiny new avionic equipment in light a/c, this could be a field which is worth getting interested in, albeit that most of the new kit we are seeing is likely not to be serviceable in the field.

The larger aircraft field is not something that grabs me. Maybe this is the wrong attitude to hold, but if you maladjust a pot or do some bad soldering (and hey, we all make mistakes) then people can die in large numbers.

1 Yes, I have never even seen a King radio in bits. Funnily enough I saw a scrap one for sale on ebay but at the time I hadn’t a thought in my head of obtaining it.
I also imagine that all of the wiring which supports the radio and nav kit is complicated, prone to damage and difficult to get at.

2 The ATC600A looks rather specialised and reassuringly expensive. I imagine the manual for this piece of kit is a hundred pages long.
Publications with an update service are going to be prohibitively expensive.
Can you really make this job pay?

3 Oh, the unbridled joy of the CAA!
I suspect that the BCAR-R will vanish in the coming years. The politics demand it. Whether or not this will go into a simplified JAR 66 B2 I do not know, but it seems the logical route.

Noisy

[Lear_doctor]

To develop some of the good points you made, and to clarify at least one issue.

The 'big' V 'small' aircraft issue. Yep more people die if you make a mistake, but I'm not sure that would make you feel any better. Also pay. The lads (and ladies) that work aircraft > 5700kg get paid more than light aircraft workers. It's the way it's always been in my 20 years experience. There are exceptions I'm sure, but take a large representative number for each side and you will see a marked difference in average take home pay.

To clarify one point on small aircraft radio work, your licence allows you to install and repair radio installations. It does not give you the right to open the unit's and repair them. For that you need an approved shop. More books and lots more test equipment, and associated procedure manuals etc etc.

Wiring in small aircraft is strange. New installations are getting easier, as more and more equipment 'talks' to each other using data busses. So the total 'wire count' is decreasing. But, you will encounter many aircraft with old wiring and in some cases 'home made' installations. That can be pretty tricky, as a wiring diagram is not always available.

To the key question you asked could you make this pay?? - From the position you appear to be in, my honest answer would be no. The set up costs is high. The continued running costs are a factor. Gaining enough experience and qualifications will be time consuming and expensive.

I think your right, the CAA licence will come to an end. Replaced by some EASA equivalent over the next few years. Plans are already afoot as I understand it.

Finally a suggestion. The above seems hugely negative as I read it back. All problems!! Maybe the way forward is to try to get some time with an avionics firm. Even if you worked free for a week you could see first hand the work they do and more importantly whether you think you could make a go of a career in the avionics industry

All the best mate


Regards

The Doc

[noisy]

Big v small. You are unlikely to get called out to urgently fix a snag on a Cessna 150 at three in the morning :) The heavy maintenance people earn their money at all hours of the day & night. Ok, I take your point about the body count after a big mishap. I was actually thinking about the Korean cargo accident at Stansted. I really had a job fathoming the accident report.

So I can pull a radio out, but I can’t replace a duff switch or a broken board even if I have the parts? So, what you are saying is that I would be confined to looking after wiring, breakers and antennae and things? As an aside, I take it that light aircraft are wired positive earth?

I am prepared to believe that I couldn’t make it pay. I currently work in the broadcast industry fixing commercial video recorders and cameras. I could only do a fraction of the work without the spares support and manuals.

I think your suggestion to do work experience is a good one. I am not sure now that this line of work is for me, but it is certainly food for thought. Many thanks Lear Doctor.

[moo]

I'm an Avionic Tech on the BA 747 & 777 fleet noisy, PM me if you have any specific questions :ok:

[avoman]

That's correct noisy, even if you had the correct circuit board generally you could not repair that radio. Internal unit rectification is for a workshop approved by the manufacturers, usually themselves. It could be you of course, but that is unlikely if you were also a licenced engineer.
What we on this forum, licenced engineers, the only people able to certify repairs, scheduled maintenance etc on aircraft, are are systems engineers. This sounds rather grand for much of what we do which may consist of little more than switching on and seeing if it works. True nevertheless. However even 'mere' wiring , circuit breakers and so on can be surprisingly absorbing when working to aviation standards.
If you repaired radios etc in an approved workshop that of course might be lucrative, satisfying and certainly necessary. However it would not be working on aircraft but at a bench. Most of us prefer working on the aircraft because strangely we like aircraft and keep our own bench time to a minimum.
Good luck with whatever you go with. I am sure there is money to be made in providing decent avionic services in a number of ways to the light and heavy aircraft maintenance industry.
All aircraft are negative earth by the way!

[noisy]

Ok, I have a much better picture now.

Apparently, lots of boat electrics are +ve earth, I don't know what the advantages are.

Thanks,

Noisy

[avoman]

Decades ago, British cars and motorcycles were positive earth when the rest were negative. Allegedly body corrosion was reduced with positive earth. Sounds good, I suspect the effect was demonstrable at laboratory level only if at all and irrelevant in practice. Standardisation is preferable and occurred in the Sixties I think.

[Bus429]

Don't forget that some vintage aircraft (still flying) have "two-wire" systems. I remember trying to figure out a problem on a "modern" VOR RX/ indicator (needle hard over right irrespective of signal input) which was as result of blown fuse in the negative line. Positive supplies were also fused. VOR RX/indicator was a NARCO, the case of which was grounded - earth seeking was probably the cause.