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NW3
17th Jun 2004, 20:42
Hi all.

Absolutely no idea why this hit me today, but on a flight from MAN to LHR this afternoon, and the cabin crew came through to do all the checks on seat belts etc. I was just wondering if anyone had any comments on having a little switch inside each seat belt which would mean the cabin crew could instantly see whether anyone had their seatbelt undone after the light has gone on.

Combined with a sensor in the chair to see if anyone was sitting in it (means the seatbelt wouldn't have to be done up on these seats), it might save a lot of time.

This isn't supposed to be a hugely clever contraption - I can hardly see it costing more than a couple of (literally) per seat, and with all the wiring going to individual lights, etc. etc., it's probably feasible.

Then again, I probably have too much time on my hands :)

NW3

Wannabe Flyboy
17th Jun 2004, 21:31
Personally I can't see it working... if passengers don't want to wear their seatbelt or hide it from the CC then that's their problem; you can't blame the company if you crash but weren't wearing a seatbelt.

The lights and wiring would make the already complex wiring system even harder... it's somthing else that can break. It'll add more weight too - perhaps not a lot but we've all heard the flying peanut story.

Just my 2p.

HKPAX
18th Jun 2004, 05:34
Two issues come to mind. First, the cabin crew are doing more than just check whether pax have done their belts up - for example checking if they have left stuff blocking the way etc etc., so they have to check over each seat anyway. Second, a similar device has been tried in cars with an electronic voice saying over and over "fasten your seat belt". People who get fed up with the racket simply click the belt together and sit on it.

under_exposed
18th Jun 2004, 08:00
I think Qinetq and lufthansa technik have done a similar type of system (but with much more beond) for exec jets.

BOAC
18th Jun 2004, 09:17
Wannabe -if passengers don't want to wear their seatbelt or hide it from the CC then that's their problem; you can't blame the company if you crash but weren't wearing a seatbelt. - if only it were that simple!

It is difficult with some of the 'know-it-alls' we have to carry to make them understand that the belt is as much for the protection of those in front of them should they become projectiles in a rapid deceleration. Even in an aborted take-off it is possible an 'average' pax could 'weigh' the equivalent of anything from 400 lbs upwards and if that hits you in the back of the neck while you are sitting strapped in like a good boy........................................

In severe turbulence the same weight could float serenely around the roof of the cabin before coming crashing down on said unsuspecting pax.

It should also be remembered that refusal to obey the 'fasten seat-belt' instruction is a breach of law and punishable as such and that anyone disobeying same would not only be liable in law for their own injuries but also for any they caused to others.

NW3 - a good idea but HKPAX has shown how the above would circumvent it!

PAXboy
18th Jun 2004, 15:10
I agree that the technicalities are both simple and complex but I can see how the pax might react ... Let's suppose that the CC are told that they do not have to check for luggage in the wrong place, laptops running etc and can just look at the readout of the seat belts.

"I'm not going to fly with Awful Airways again - the waiters [;) ] don't even come and check that everything is OK before we depart." :rolleyes:

--------------------
"I tell you, we are here on Earth to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you any different." Kurt Vonnegut, Jr.

apaddyinuk
21st Jun 2004, 23:53
Actually,
the new emirates first class cabins have a little light outside the door which informs the crew if the pax has their seatbelt on or not so they dont get disturbed during turbulence, of course, whether the pax do actually have to be wearing the seatbelt or of they have simply fastened it and stuffed it under them while sleeping is another matter!

B Sousa
22nd Jun 2004, 04:13
Wannabe:"you can't blame the company if you crash but weren't wearing a seatbelt"

In todays world if you crash or go flying in turbulence without your seat belt, odds are you wont be around to blame anyone.
Cars have the light about belts, so it is feasable. Big loser is expense. When Airlines are now charging for Emergency Row seating, they certainly are not going to spend to retrofit airline seats when they have humans already on the payroll.

NW3
22nd Jun 2004, 12:34
Wasn't really intending it to be a retrofit - just something that could be incorporated in to future aircraft.

Anyone got any ideas along the same lines - little things that would make things better for cabin crew and pax alike? Personally I had a couple of ideas:

1) More people broadcasting the flight deck radio on the inflight ents system - United did it and for someone who was a bit interested in what was gonig on, a fantastic idea! If anything dodgy happened the captain could pull the switch, but for run of the mill stuff it can't be a security risk.

2) Abolishing the no smoking sign (or at least have it painted on or something) and replace it with a mobile phone sign (some companies allow you to use them on the ground until the doors are closed etc.), and possibly an electronic devices sign (who knows in the future!)

3) For the crew, how about making all the meal service stuff disposable (inc cups, glasses, trays), then you could just tip everything in to one of the big boxes, and not have to worry about putting things on shelves etc. You could then have a thing to compress it all down back in the galley and take up loads less space - this should mean a much faster serice and easier for the crew.

4) For aircraft with screens in the back of the seats, you could have the pax name displayed as tha a/c is boarding. This would simply need a message sent from the booking system, which should be manageable, and a bit of software tweaking.

5) On a similar theme, something I think would be very cool would be a map that zooms in from 'global' scale down to 'city' scale as you're watching it, as opposed to doing it screen by screen. (I know I'm taking this to some quite silly extremes but this is quite fun!)

(Ooh - gotta go. Sitting at work and my boss is about to come over!)

NW3

Globaliser
22nd Jun 2004, 13:17
NW3: Wasn't really intending it to be a retrofit - just something that could be incorporated in to future aircraft.But can you imagine the reliability/certification/maintenance issues involved with this? The Mark I eyeball, when used properly, would seem to be the best device for this job.

However:-

2) Abolishing the no smoking sign (or at least have it painted on or something) and replace it with a mobile phone sign (some companies allow you to use them on the ground until the doors are closed etc.), and possibly an electronic devices sign (who knows in the future!)Agreed. This would definitely be a good idea.3) For the crew, how about making all the meal service stuff disposable (inc cups, glasses, trays), then you could just tip everything in to one of the big boxes, and not have to worry about putting things on shelves etc. You could then have a thing to compress it all down back in the galley and take up loads less space - this should mean a much faster serice and easier for the crew.Have you flown from London to Paris or Amsterdam? This is already done - and has been for a long time - on routes like that.

PAXboy
22nd Jun 2004, 14:03
4) For aircraft with screens in the back of the seats, you could have the pax name displayed as tha a/c is boarding. This would simply need a message sent from the booking system, which should be manageable, and a bit of software tweaking. I think that this is a VERY good idea but would need to wait for future systems. The reason being (I deduce) that the central system does not 'know' about each screen. There is a cable carrying all channels of sound and vision to each seat and the selection is made there, with no direct connection between the seat and the central system.

Consequently, to get a unique meassage to an individual screen, would probably require addtional hardware - albeit it tiny - to identify the screen/seat. The method of getting the information then becomes easier and conventional network systems could do so. When LAN type connections are provided at every seat, it would be a doddle.

I expect that we shall see this sort of thing in 1st and Club fairly soon, linked to an interactive touch screen to request drinks, snacks, food. This would enable the cabin staff to bring the correct drink in one visit, rather than be called over to take the order and then go back to get it.

The idea of having your name on the seat screen, to help ensure that people actually get into the seat they were allocated, sounds good to me!!

On the above technical deduction, I sit to be corrected and perhaps someone could bring me a brandy??
--------------------
"I tell you, we are here on Earth to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you any different." Kurt Vonnegut, Jr.

Jerricho
23rd Jun 2004, 02:13
NW3 excellent idea. It's a pity though there are those of the shallower end of the intelligence pool that actually require direction and "policing" of something so simple as wearing a seatbelt.