BBMF - fantasy aircraft acquisition - what would you choose?

[airborne_artist]

The BBMF only operate a Lanc, a Dak, Hurris and Spits, yet plenty more types were operated by the RAF from 1939-45, many with distinction.

You have unlimited budget, but can only choose one type.

What would you choose and why?

The only limitation is that it must have flown in RAF colours in WWII.

[Danza]

No question, it's got to be a Bristol Beaufighter (especially if it could have the invasion stripes paint job). Not the best looking of aircraft, but one that did so much and is oft overlooked in the history books.

[treadigraph]

Sabre powered Tempest or Tiffie... I would that Kermit's Tempest V would do the airshow rounds in the UK when the rebuild's finished but I 've heard it might not fly...

[Genghis the Engineer]

Given that BBMF is the RAF's only historic flight, I'd say the two greatest fighters of WW1 - the Sopwith Camel and SE5a.

Choosing between the two - the Camel, because Biggles flew one.

G

[Vick Van Guard]

I don't know about letting them operate any other aircraft, I understand that all the single seaters are currently grounded :ooh:

[Saab Dastard]

Short Sunderland, because it helped to win the battle of the Atlantic.

Otherwise the Fairey Battle, as it epitomises the incredible bravery of the pilots who flew it in 1940 against insurmountable odds.

I was going to say the Stringbag, but there is one flying.

SD

[treadigraph]

Think the RNHF's got three airworthy Stringbags now. think of it: a vic of upstanding, outstanding, saluting crew!

Are the BBMF's fighters really grounded VVG?

[Vick Van Guard]

Are the BBMF's fighters really grounded VVG?

That's what I was told this morning, although I have just checked through a list of what's on strength at the BBMF and the only aircraft I was not told about was the MK V. So this might be serviceable.

The IIa, 9 and both 19's as well as the 'other' Hurricane all have engine problems. :{
In addition the damage to '363' is a lot worse than first thought (damage to the wing apparently).

The mk 19 which had the oil leak looks to be out for sometime as they don't have a spare engine. There is one in the 'shop' which hasn't been started I understand. :(

(Sorry to hijack the thread, maybe start a separate one?)

[noisy]

Mosquitoes, six of 'em :E

I feel sorry for anyone who hasn't seen one flying.

[airborne_artist]

Mosquitoes, six of 'em

Was wondering when someone would come up with the Mossie - for me it's the only one - a stunningly beautiful a/c, had significant impact in combat, and was the fastest operational a/c in the world for 2.5 years to 1944, when innovation in aircraft design was running at perhaps the greatest rate ever in aviation history.

Very sadthat 7,500 plus were built and we haven't got one flying in the UK.

[You want it when?]

Seeing as the "Mossie" has been picked (my no1 choice as well) how about a Lysander?

[No comment]

Typhoon please! And seeing as noisy was allowed six Mossies, I want six too.

[airborne_artist]

Free Man

You can vote for a Mossie if you think it merits the slot - it's not first come gets the only vote.

I think six is a little OTT, but I agree entirely with the sentiment - after all it's less than 0.1% of the number built.

Noisy, what mark of Mossie had you in mind?

As an aside a friend video'd the sadly lamented RR Mossie as it flew very low several times over Salisbury Hall - you can hear squealing brakes from amazed drivers on the M25!

[Tempsford]

It would have to be a bomber (or two)

Stirling, Halifax and Wellington please

Spitfire, Hurricane etc are great to see, but just imagine the above formating with the BBMF Lancaster!

Ah well, back to reality

Temps

[Gainesy]

BoB so, lets rescue the B-P Defiant from Hendon.

[Genghis the Engineer]

Visited Hendon this week as part of a "VIP" Test Pilots outing. Found myself standing next to Duncan Simpson looking at the Hawker Hind, who decided to spend 10 minutes talking about what it was like to fly (not the type, the specific airframe:cool: ). Another of our number recognised the Sunderland as one that his Dad had in his wartime logbook, and Jimmy Doolittle III (a 3rd generation TP, is that unique I wonder?) found his Grandad's uniform in a display case.

Not really on topic, but what the hell. Could we make a case for putting a runway back in at Hendon and starting to fly these beasts again do you think, I'm sure we could find one or two volunteers to fly them - I'd love to have a go at the Sopwith Camel.

G

[PPRuNe Pop]

Saab.

Fairey Battle.............brave pilots...................insurmountable odds. You must mean that the aircraft was a death trap and few pilots came home after a raid. Garland VC was an exception I fancy but the RAF soon relegated it - to where I don't know. I know it did a bit of target towing.

Genghis. They would have to knock down a lot of the new buildings to put a runway back! But I did fly out of Hendon in 1952/3 in Auster 7's as part of 1953 Flight / 661 AOP Squadron based at Kenley.

You probably would have enjoyed the Camel. I flew the replica which is now installed at the FAA museum as I think you know.

[BeauMan]

I understand the BAe Mosquito was due to be donated to the BBMF at the end of it's final, and sadly fatal, season...

BBMF is probably now a misnomer; Royal Air Force Historic Flight would probably be more accurate. In which case, I'd suggest the Flight currently homours the following:

Fighter Command - Spitfires and Hurricanes
Bomber Command - Lancaster
Transport Command - Dakota
Training Command - Chipmunks (okay, they're post war, but still fit)
Coastal Command - nothing...

I'd certainly be tempted to go for the Beaufighter, as my PPRuNe name dictates... ;)

But then we must also not forget the purpose of the Flight is to remember ALL who served - Lest We Forget.

[Tempsford]

Well said Beauman

The name BBMF currently limits the a/c in to types operated in the Battle of Britain only. RAF Historic Flight is more apt.
It is a shame that we did not follow the example of the USA where they did put at least one aside of the major types operated. It would have saved the effort of having to scour Lakes, Lochs, Fjords and Scrap Yards and also to build hybrids to allow us in the UK to glimpse a lost part of our Aviation Heritage.
And by the way I have the greatest respect for those who do recreate our Aviation Heritage.
Perhaps we should start now. We could have had Phantom, Brick, etc. still flying. I accept that costs are high and skills are required, but unless we adopt an attitude of saving at least one of each type, (two would be good, one for the RAF Museum and one to fly), in twenty years time people will be asking the same questions as we are now. Finally, a lot of lists supplied for a/c for the BBMF end at WW2. With the RAF Historic Flight, that limitation would be lifted.

Just a thought

Gets quietly off soap box

Temps

[Dr Jekyll]

I'd really like to see a Westland Whirlwind in the air, or at least on the ground.

And I don't mean the helicopter!

[BEagle]

Well, the RAF used to have both a Vampire and a Meteor as the Vintage Pair heritage team. Sadly both collided performing what they had earlier been advised not to (as I was told with some emotion by an ex-Vintage Pair member) - and another Meteor T7 which had survived years of towing targets for novice Hunter pilots like me to shoot at was also lost in an accident resulting from a well-known Meteor T7 design deficiency...

But why no Gnat, Jet Provost, Hunter etc? It would be very expensive to operate a Lightning or a Phantom - but surely even our impoverished air force could afford to keep some historics flying?


As for dream BBMF aircraft? Mosquito, certainly. Plus Beaufighter and Typhoon or Tempest.

Boulton Paul Defiant - yup, that as well.


Oh - and a Me 109 and Fw 190 as counterpoints?

PS - What's a 'Brick'? Never heard the term used in the RAF; the Buccaneer was always the 'Bucc'. 'Brick', like 'Phantom F3' was a term dreamed up by those with little aluminium stepladders and waistcoats covered in 'I once saw a Tomcat' badges.....

[Tempsford]

Beagle

You do have to be careful what you say in here! Obviously I was wrong with the name ' Brick' used in my post and thank you for correcting me.

I can categorically state that I do not have an aluminium step ladder or a jacket with Tomcat Badges on it.
I do however have over 30 years in Heavy Civil Aircraft Maintenance and what I hope is a 'healthy' interest in aviation. Perhaps my choice of aircraft for the RAF Historic Flight reflects the fact that although I like little aeroplanes, bigger ones are better!
I have seen the people you mean at Airshows and my opinion is that if that is what they want to do then let em get on with it. Such folk do contribute a lot of revenue and they sure as heck don't bother me.
I am sure that they also have badges on their waistcoats that say 'support the BBMF', 'bring back the Vulcan' etc etc. So lets not scoff at such folk. Their money is just as good as a persons who perhaps has been fortunate enough, like yourself, to fly aircraft for a living.

Gets quietly off soapbox again

Temps

[Dr Illitout]

Why not a helicopter Whirwind? and you have got to have a Wessex in there too!!
On the subject of the BBMF, my old Dad went to their H.Q. the other week for a guided tour. The first thing that he saw was a Spitfire with it's engine in bits. What struck him was that NONE of the disconnected pipes were blanked off and all of the bits taken off the aircraft were not labeled or put into bags, just dumped on racks and on the floor around the aircraft!.
Now when the "Any questions" bit came he asked why the basic rules of aircraft maintenance house keeping were not being followed. There was a stunned silence followed by a " you'r right sir, right away sir!" and some very embarised RAF chaps came out and started to blank, cove and lable things!!
Good old Dad!!!

[Kolibear]

money no object?? :O :O

De Havilland Hornet

[airborne_artist]

DH Hornet - lovely a/c, but significant contribution to RAF in WWII?

Whirly/Wessex - do not qualify - have to be active in WWII for this fantasy thread.

Defiant - not quite as heavy losses as the Battle, but didn't last long into the war.

Bombers - solid contribution from Stirling, Halifax and Wellington, so very worthy.

Beaufighter and Mosquito - both highly successful fighter/bombers, and Mossie also strong in PR role.

Typhoon/Tempest - successful in the 44/45 turkey shoots of German armour/trains, but not as strong a contribution as Stirling, Halifax, Wellington, Beaufighter or Mosquito IMHO.

The BBMF already operate the Lancaster - so there is a representative of the medium/heavy bombers.

BBMF also operates two fighters, so the gap is in the middle.

It's a straight fight between the Beaufighter and the Mosquito.

I'm sticking with my original choice - the Mosquito - fastest operational aircraft in the world for 18 months of WW2, over 7,500 built (2,000 more than the Beaufighter), major contribution in fighter, PR and precision bombing roles, and very sadly missed over UK skies at the moment.

[noisy]

What about the Curtiss P-40, which made a significant contribution to allied success in north Africa and other theatres.

It was apparently a horrible aircraft to fly in air to air combat, with large control forces. I guess it would make you or break you.

Plus the shark mouth paintjob is really smart. :D

[DragonflyDH90]

noisy - You may want to have a chat with Ray Hanna about the P-40 being a horrible aircraft to fly or as you put it heavy in the controls.
He seems to enjoy it a lot (being the prefered mount), and with all those other wonderful machines to choose from.

The aircraft is sometimes described as being badly harmonised, light in the ailerons but heavy in the elevator, but with a great roll rate.

All in all a great aircraft, but for some reason people seem to give it a bit of a hard time.

Sorry for deviating from the thread a bit.

[fradu]

Ray Hanna's not a bad P-40 pilot either!

For me, a Typhoon or Tempest for the BBMF :)