The posting of JAA questions

[Aim High]

Will the posting of JAA questions be discouraged? Or is this the world we live in now? 10 years ago students practiced past papers closer to their exams. It was not called feedback then but now we have feedback hysteria. With students now actively being encouraged to remember questions. Certain schools stand outside exam centres to collect questions as students leave exams (got any questions guv!).
Quality Training should be pivotal in the aviation industry not this sorry state that it has slipped to.

The answer is for the JAA to change the system. Test papers SHOULD be released after the exams for students to take home with them and consult with their instructors. How can some member states allow students to discuss papers but not others?

But if papers are released you then create the need to produce new questions. On monthly sittings the workload is great.
If the same questions come up again - some exam!

To enable this less papers should be sat each year. Instead of monthly sittings let's go to biannual sittings. Yes two sets of sittings only per year only. This will enable quality exams to be constructed.

The pass mark could be changed to reflect the difficulty of the paper, rather like degrees or A levels.

The pass rules are out-dated. You should be allowed any number of attempts over any length of time. The caveat that I put in is that if you take 20 attempts to pass meteorology then this will be shown in your final pass certificate (plus it will you have taken you ten years!). If you pass all 14 at first attempt you get an average of 1.0. Employers would soon learn that 1.0 was excellent and higher averages (= more attempts required) could then be set as joining criteria. The same goes for the Instrument rating and CPL!

What about airline demand. Would this slow the production of trained pilots and cause two sets of pilot bulges flowing through the training system. - Maybe.

What about logistics. Well we already sit a large number of exams on the same day in universities and schools.

What about CAA revenue. I think it could remain the same.

The last academic... Aim High

[Alex Whittingham]

Oh come on Stuart. It might be alright for you because CATS have a relatively small number of students but how would organisations like Oxford cope with 250 students all having to be prepared for exams at the same time and all being ready for the flying phase on June 1st? How many questions can you make up about the definition of Dry Operating Mass anyway? You would just end up with same old theory questions and the numbers changed in the calculation questions.

Posting at 00:45? Late night?

[Ropey Pilot]

Don't know if the workload on producing new question would be so high - look at the FAA CPL / ATPL 's. Every question (and answer - many times I cannot select correct answer in JAA papers with the books open in front of me because ALL options are wrong:ugh: ) is published. The book is over an inch thick and if you read it all you will have seen every question before (and you can take the exam by computer whenever you want.)

Is this system percieved as easier than JAA - I believe so (Tin hat on... :D ). Is the flight safety on FAA flight comprimised due to this - I severely doubt it. JAA just likes the hoops you must jump through to be higher :zzz:

As for your take on resists - don't know if that would be the best option, it is certainly an option though - the current system sucks.

Aside from the ridiculous price per exam for a computer marked paper in the first place (for more on this rant use the search engine), the resit rule cannot be anything more than a money maker.:suspect:

If you believe that 4 fails in a certain subject means you are not safe/capable to fly commercially fine. But follow it up will a ban on retaking or impose a two year cool off or mandatory extended groundschool course or something.

If you think that you should be allowed as many goes as possible and if you finally scrape through on attempt 15 but eventually make the grade - progress to CPL, also fine.

But to enforce resits on papers you may have flown through first time and proved more than capable in (comms - 2 papers, £104, 6 minutes to finish both :mad: - sorry said I wouldn't go there) has got to be a money maker. Go one way or the other or just be honest and charge £500 to reatake an exam you have failed 4 times (OK I don't think that is a good idea, but at least it would be more honest)

[Alex Whittingham]

Yes the FAA ATP exams can be passed by learning the questions and answers but the FAA system has a safeguard in the shape of the IR oral. You have to understand the syllabus to be able to pass this test. The JAA IR has no oral exam.

How about waiting for six months for your re-sit? That'll be popular.

[Ropey Pilot]

Fair point Alex, well presented. However I was not suggesting that the FAA system is nothing more than learning a list of questions (or if I implied it I didn't mean to), but it is surely easier to get near 100% on questions you have seen before.

As for the oral, I have never taken one but unless your examiner is a special kind of b@stard he/she would surely try and get the correct answer from you by rephrasing the question if possible etc. It takes a hard man/woman to ask a difficult question and simply sit and watch you sweat in silence. You will still have to know the subject though but I am sure there are less 74% failures due to non-sensical questions which are badly worded and are impossible to answer even if you know the answer, yet are still consisered "Safe" by auntie CAA.

Having said that, after getting through the JAA papers I am glad that I could reduce my sweating before the IR simply to my flying and not a huge amount of tech etc which I braindumped the night after I sat the exams (and am now re-learning months later in prep for any interviews which may come my way - although that airline Capt position working in Maccy D's adverts is looking more like an option).

[Charlie Zulu]

Hi RopeyPilot,

Agreed with what you say in regards to the FAA designated examiners.

They are human after all and want to see you pass.

For instance the only thing I stumbled upon was the minimum altitudes that are within brackets on the approach charts. He said we would come back to that later...

Whilst we were going through questions on the low altitude en-route charts he asked me what one of the lines meant and I replied "military training route".

Examiner: "Ah, so going back to the approach chart, what does this figure within brackets indicate?".

Me: "Oh I got it, its the military minimum descent altitude / decision altitude (as applicable)".

Examiner: "Yes, thats right".

However that was the only question I stumbled upon in my FAA IR oral if I were to stumble across many more then I probably would have failed but in the end the rest of the oral went swimmingly well.

Learning the questions for the FAA Written test does not get you through the FAA IR Oral, you have to know the syllabus inside and out.

The same goes for every other FAA Oral exam. Be it for the PPL, CPL, ATP, etc.

Best wishes,

Charlie Zulu.

[redsnail]

From my perspective, Oz licensing seems to be a mix between the UK style exams with the USA style flight tests.
You aren't as restricted in Oz regarding number of resits and time limits (I'd have to check though).
I am pretty familiar with the JAR system and the Oz system, I haven't undertaken an FAA ATPL....

If however, you cannot answer enough questions correctly in your PPL, CPL, IR or renewal check flights, you'll fail. Another part of the check is that you have current documents, eg AIP, DAPS (or the equivalent, Jepps) on hand. CAO's and CAR's as well but fortunately you don't have to carry them! :D