The're stealing our jobs type rant!

[MJR]

Frequently on Pprune there has been some kind of rant about our European cousins stealing UK pilot jobs. Well if that was not bad enough, last night on TV I quite clearly saw an airline captain serving behind the counter of McDonalds! This is disgraceful, and I dont care what nationality he is, it is a downright liberty.

McDonalds is often a natural career progression for many fATPL holders looking for that first job, many have strived hard to secure that 4-star rating only to be surpassed by some moron with 4 stripes. For those who take as much exception to this malpractice as me, write to BALPA and your local MP, this has got to stop now!


ps I'm a little bored at work today

:ok:

[Orion Man]

Was he a direct entry 4 starrer ? I hope seniority has not been abused here.

[redsnail]

I wonder what the grill type rating cost? Is he bonded?
I am sure the BASPA* would like to know.

Burger and side pilot association.

[Impressive_Wingspan]

The reason for him being a direct entry four starrer is because he had obviously read "Handling the Big Macs" and done his homework!!

[spiralklad]

Nobody is stealing anything. The job market is an open market or is becoming an open market.
A Brittish operator looks into the ratio (Quality+Experience)/cost.
Unfortunately that ratio doesn´t seem to be very favourable to The Locals.
People from around Europe seems to provide with that little extra tha makes the different. But it is just a mattter of working harder.

Just an opinion...

[redsnail]

Umm Spiralklad, it's a joke. :)

[Crosswind Limits]

The only thing our continental cousins can't understand is British humour but it's quite frightening what they can understand! :uhoh:

[Tubbs]

Mate, maybe you should be 'working harder' at lightening up a wee bit.

[PPRuNeUser0215]

I have written to Mc Donald's recruitment before... Never received a reply:* Is it another of this position for those who belong to the old boys club?

Anyway Burger King is better than Mac Donalds but of course I am bitter and twisted because I have obviously failed at the application stage;)

Reddo. Wrt to Grill Type rating not being provided by the company, I find this revolting. What's next? Asking the staffs to bring their own smile at work and make use of it?

[jd10k]

I did apply for a Mc Grilling job... I had even done a flame-grill rating... but was informed that that would not help and that I would still have to pay for a Mc Grill rating. £60000 on initial training, now two grill ratings at £25000 each + interest. Will I ever be able to recoup that in my career at the hot end?

JD

PS at my age I have a clear complexion, so may well be overlooked in the interview process.

[Northern Highflyer]

The market is slowly picking up for us burger grilling wannabes after some major setbacks in the industry, namely the drop in sales after the obesity outbreak.

However, when recruitment starts in earnest we will still be at the bottom of the list as there are many wanting to move from the loco sector, namely Burger King, and a few from Wimpy who are unhappy with their hours under the new GTL (Grilling Time Limitations).

I have even heard a rumour that there are a few looking to convert their KFC Chicken Frying Licence as they can factor the hours they already have.

Good luck to all. :} ;) :E

PS, bored at work also (well it's too warm to do anything constructive with my time)

[moku]

I hold a french fry endorsment on a JAR CPL and still can't get a job.

Actually a friend slipped a peice of paper into my license prior to an interview which stated that. Was good for conversation... still did not get the job though.

:p

[redsnail]

Amex, the reason you didn't get a reply is because you didn't pay the nonrefundable £50 or the 13 page life history application was lost by Royal Mail.
Also, it's bad enough that you have to pay to play, you're also expected to buy your uniforms (allowances) or if you go to McDownall's you rent your uniform.

These days with competition being so tough any grilling experience is valuable. I suggest to many younger flippers to help Dad out during the summer BBQ season. If you can get a small bbq plate you can offer some freelance work in the parks. If you're so inclined, you can offer to instruct on burger flipping.

If you like obtaining huge loans from banks with initials, there's an organisation darn sarf that uses some more initials (CFC? KFC?) that can offer a complete course from ab initio right through to the big burner industrial BBQs.

Have people thought about corporate cooking? Get Gordon Ramsay (C&T chef) to yell at you for a laugh.

It's a tough market to crack. If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen. :ok:

[5150]

This is typical of the airline industry these days - I've always wanted to fly for McDonalds from a very early age, and now these adverts are just over glamourising the job, which will no doubt result in a flood of applications from foreigners who will get looked after long before any British applicants will.

I bet if I went into a Le McDonalds you wouldn't find any British Pilots flying for them.....

ps - it's not called a quarter pounder over there.
pps - they tend to take on low hours, straight from training (Capt and FO) - apply when you're my age and English and you'll get given the 'Overqualified' rant.......

Good luck all those that get in..

[Flypuppy]

You know it makes me so sad to see all these young people being overlooked for what is obviously the dream job of Burger flipping for one of the biggest and best in the world.

Why just look at the big boys though? You know there are plenty of smaller independant operators who still will give you the training needed to become a fully trained Burger God.

I must say though, I have noticed an increase in "Johnny Foriegner" types working the grill plates recently. With the number of people that OATS and Cabair are turning out every year you would have thought there was a ready supply of fATPL holders, errrm, I mean dedicated home grown talent.

[StudentInDebt]

If you think things here are bad think of our overseas cousins in McDonalds(Australia)! I understand that in order to even get a job on the deep fat fryer over there you need to have gained considerable time washing lettuce, slicing the buns and cleaning the milkshake machine. I've heard of people being stuck emptying the service area bins for years before they even got into the store! Since they only have a small population there are very few fast food joints to choose from, McDonalds being the largest and most prestigious, the smaller operators tend to go out of business quite quickly and the low cost "Express" places can only survive in the big cities.

Not only that but should you come to the UK your Ozzie grill and fryer ratings have to be converted to European Gold Stars, just dealing with the BCL (Burger Crew Licensing) dept requires you to be able to write in boxes on forms!

As for burger flipping opportunites on the continent, there are few. Due to the special types of product sold, for example in France the Big Horse(tm), Rabbit Nuggets and the ever popular McSnail, english burger flippers are not considered to be adequately trained, even if they do have a 4 Stars.

Another problem we lettuce washers face is that when 4 star holders and asssistant-deputy-vice-managers retire from McDonalds they can get burger flipping positions in smaller chains like Kentucky and Wimpy although I understand most prefer to go to Burger King due to the similar working practices and all their mates are there. There are also those burger wannabes who are prepared to pay not only for their stars but also to work flipping burgers for free til they have built up enough experience to either be hired by that restaurant or move on to another one.

Our biggest threat however is from flippers coming into this country and getting jobs in outfits like Dallas Chicken and Ribs who are prepared to use untrained flippers or foreign non JBA (Joint Burger Authority) flippers on extended validations. These restaurants work their employees to the full extent of BTL (burger time limitations) on long, 24 hour/7 days a week shift patterns to the extent that a serious accident on the chip fryer or the grill is imminent in my opinion.

nb this post is a joke. It does not reflect the views of the author or the PPRuNe management. All copyright and trademarks are acknowledged

[Checkboard]

You think that you are hard done by?!

I spent seven years at Hungry Jacks, in Australia - multi burner trained.

After wandering over the the yooKay, I try to get a Burger King job - exactly the same burners, made by exactly the same US company, in exactly the same environment. Nope - I have to apply to the UK burger franchise overseeing committee, sit their fourteen exams, hire my own grill, with a commercial chef, grill buddy and BAA (Burger Association Authority) overseer, just to grill the same meat on the same equipment wearing the same uniform as I did for seven years in Australia.







Only the beef was better there.

[JohnnyPharm]

I'm sick fed up with you wannabes who want to jump straight onto the Right Hand Side of a shiny new grill.

Has anyone ever thought of building your way up in the industry by either instructing or joining a smaller outfit such as Tacho Bell?

Yeah we all want to work for the majors with the better wages (£4.78 p/h) and final salary schemes but even these terms and conditions are getting squeezed just like their orange juice.

Stop getting yourselves into a McFlurry and try and make some contacts in the industry first, and remeber to keep current in case you get called in for a grill ride.

For information the Grill Ride or Sim Fry as we know it consists of:

A precision fry

Some asymmetric frying

A visual fry in a Class G(rill) area

and the one that most people fail, frying with foggles on, I have seen a lot of nasty burns during this execise.

Keep at it, its determination that counts in this game and with the upturn predicted you'll soon be a proud owner of our company hair net.

[Snigs]

I don't know, :rolleyes: why do people want to jump into the big fryers straight away, guys and gals do an apprenticeship. :eek: Why not learn to fry on small fryers, then take a course on how to teach people to fry with the small frying machines, that way you can gain experience, perhaps working up to teaching on the twin fryers, controlling two burgers at a time. Once you can do that McDoonals will be snapping your hand off and willing to pay you to flip and turn.

You know it makes sense!!! :ok:

[Pointer]

Well i don't know about the Australian grill but i've been trying for several years to get a job as "swedish Cook", Have been training at home with those Self-improver-video's from the muppetshow.

But every time i try they say i don't speak the language, i have to be a natural Swedish cook in order to speak english to the people and to operate english kitchen machinery. Now that's what i call protectionisme.

And that's just besides the fact that i have to pay for my own "Swedish Cook" refresher course!

Pointer :E

[MJR]

More bad news, I believe the last course that went through OATS have all been offered jobs at McDonalds. One more reason to spend the money and go integrated.



PS Still bored:ok:

[Northern Highflyer]

Well I took the modular route and started small. I even bought a share in a chip pan which I get to use twice a week. It is good value at around £2 per hour wet (oily). I have to admit my first attempts were a disaster and it was a while before I went solo. I just couldn't master a smooth landing of fries into the little cardboard box thingy without a couple falling out.

I am now busy working on my night qualification so that I can work the evening shifts as well. I don't expect to go straight onto the shiny friers at the big boys just yet. I will be happy to start in the local chippy and spend a couple of years there to build up my experience.

[JohnnyPharm]

MJR

Your a sad man, causing all this mayhem, but its a great laff all the same!

[ACW 335]

I'm 19, a Floor Manager at McDONALDS and I have a PPL (ok, i know its not 4 stripes, but it will do!)
And no, i don't get to wear an air hostess uniform! (I'm a girl before i get any wierd comments) ;)


PS If anyone is after a grill rating, i can assure you it is a very cheap and easy rating to get and keep current.
The grill rating is also similar to the IMC/IR, having the REGULAR GRILL and also QUARTER GRILL ratings. The latter being the harder of the two, needing more time to complete. It enables you to make better approaches to your smokey grill, which i assure you can be tricky. You will feel much more competent with your spatula :\

Those who work after 2100 hours also qualify to apply for the night grill rating. This again is easy to keep current and does not require quite so many hours as the CAA version of the NIGHT RATING.
You can also upgrade your SINGLE grill to TWIN, possibly more if you so desire

(Im going to shut up now before the flaming starts....:mad::p)

JD10K, I can assure you that a clean complexion will not inhibit your initial application to the BAA (Burger Aviation Authority)

[Goldfinger]

I just want to flip burgers for the uniform.

Preferably a shiny orange uniform, red isn't too bad, but i'd never know if it was tomato sauce or I'd cut myself on the burger flipping tools.

What kind of uniform do you guys & girls get to wear......

However, it disappoints me that everyone wants to aspire to McDonalds and Burger King. What's wrong with the mobile kebab/chip/burger vans ehh.

Remember that even after years of washing lettuce and putting th bins out, people still get promoted to the RH of a nice shiny Mk5 Flamemaster Stainless steel grill and hob. I understand that they get designed with autogrill now....niceeeee

Goldfinger:ok:

[Flying Farmer]

Glad to see most still have a sense of humor, mine had just departed until this thred came along.
Now can anyone in the know tell me how to convert my ratings in to something usefull :{ and when does Mac whoever they r start the next conversion course :}

[ACW 335]

McDonalds are recruiting all the time so never fear!


Yes we have autogrills now, so it takes off the workload on long trips

[High Wing Drifter]

Burgers before Boeings? The phrase "Out of the frying pan and into the fire" springs to mind!

:8

[JohnnyPharm]

Flying Farmer

Can't agree with you more. The great british sense of humour is not dead. Most of here are prepared to gamble the price of a house (well ex L.A. house) on our dream, with no guarantees, yet we can still have a good laugh at our self.

[gooneydog]

Are they considered a Friar or a chipmonk ???

[Tee]

Stop moaning and be grateful that you're getting any kind of frying! I might NEVER achieve my dream of frying for MacDonalds because I'm colour blind and I can't tell the difference between the lettuce and the tomatoes.

I know I would be good if they would just give me the chance.

[Global Pilot]

Very important to be able to tell the difference between lettuce and tomatoes by sight in McDs because you certainly can't rely on your taste buds!

[747 Downwind]

Great to see the notoriously dry British humour being displayed at times of intense hardship: quintacentially British trait that it is- keep it up boys:ok:

To those who clearly can't take the light hearted humour :mad: :mad: :mad: :*

p.s: my first post... yeah:O

[MAX]

I reflect back on the good old days when I used to fry for an independent Burger shop. Sure our burgers were smaller and more expensive but they were gourmet with a high class clientelle. They never worked me too hard and the manager on the left of the chip fryer was a good friend.

Having now made the move to one of the Major outlets I find I am having to fry up a storm like a one armed burger flipper. Its a 24 hour job now with many a night shift serving to the wee wee hours of the morning. I have found the quality of training to be excellent but the actual 'meal deal' we offer the customer certainly needs some improving. Sadly, being a large company, the voice of a lowly griller mostly remains unheard.

Please Ladies and Gents, enjoy your various frying moments as you progress up the ladder. Never take them for granted as sometimes the burger on the other side of the road looks a lot juicier. I can, however, guarantee nothing beats watching the sun rise over the cash register after a long night of frying. ;)

MAX:cool:

[covec]

Does anyone have any details about MacDonalds sim check and interview questions?

I ask because I failed a Big Mac interview once - I admitted to preferring a good Indian over a burger any day.

Any info much appreciated.

[-<M4v3r1ck>-]

I too would like some advice. I am fortunate enough to be in a position to apply to the McDonalds Sponsored Cadet Scheme and just wanted any feedback from those who have been through the assessment. I'm happy with the format of stages 1-3 (basic frying aptitude, personality profile, company knowledge, etc.) but it's Stage 4 (the sim check) I'm a little concerned about.

I understand it involves following precision grilling instructions from the instructor whilst s/he tests your "spare capacity" by getting you to tot up the cost of orders and the like? I've even heard horror stories of them simulating a blocked gas pipe or failing it all together on you? Obviously I'm a little concerned (my actual frying experience is limited: a couple of introductory fry-ups a few months back) so any info much appreciated.

Also, has anyone got demo questions for the technical interview at stage 2? I assume its pretty standard stuff e.g. rate of heating calcs, overbearing-4-star-supervisor who wants to push the limits of the grill etc.???

Cheers again,

Wannabe Mav

[Northern Highflyer]

Guys 'n' girls

Are you sure you want to do this ? Too many people live the dream and think this is a glamorous job. I would suggest you take off your rose tinted specs and see it for what it is. Do you really want to get up at 7 for the early start, spending all day on your feet and then being asked to do overtime, not getting home until way after dark ?

Management are undermining conditions all the time, the company have stopped providing free meals (ok admitted that's probably a good thing), and now they are insisting that you live within an hours drive of where you are based so that you aren't fatigued.

The job is tough on relationships, and many often go to the wall due to the fact you smell like a Big Mac all the time. If you do go into it make sure you have a VERY understanding partner.

Once the novelty wears off you will see what I mean. Better to get a job in the city and spend your weekends at a BBQ, grilling for fun.

Johnny

We have to laugh to stop us thinking too much about what we have spent/are spending, which would make us cry. :{

ACW

Being in charge of the floor (or ramp as we like to call it), do you get to direct the guy with the mop and bucket round the tables using a couple of table tennis bats ? :E


PS - I hear that French Company, Airburger are designing a new product, the A380 megaburger. It is so big they are having to extend all the grills to fit it in..........watch this space. :ok:

[-<M4v3r1ck>-]

Northern Highflyer,

I, and many like me, have wanted this for a loooooong time. We're not all naive to the downsides of the profession but we have frying in our blood and simply must do it.

Mav

[V- 5]

Burger Flipping studies : 100%
Sweeping studies : 100%
Saying "you got it!" studies :100%
Wearing hair net studies : 100%
Acne development studies :100%
Grease cleaning studies :100%
Slow movement studies :100%
Glazed look studies :100%
Saying "would yo like to go large?" studies :100%

Burger Test 1 : Grade 1
Burger Test 2 : Grade 1
Burger Test 3 : Grade 1
Burger Test 4 : Grade 1
Burger Test 5 : Grade 1

Burger Rating : FIRST TIME PASS


NOT ONE BLOODY PFO LETTER, WHERE'S THE JUSTICE I ASK YOU!!!



:mad:

[Northern Highflyer]

Mav

I accept it does have it's plus sides. The view out the window can be fantastic, especially when it's hot and sunny outside. :E :cool:

[Orion Man]

Once these Euro elections are over I am going to write to my MEP regarding CAP371 regulations on night frying. Its time we all dug in to stop this steady erosion of our quality of life.

[JohnnyPharm]

Hey great news, has anyone seen the cadet scheme offererd in this week's "Fry It International". click here (http://www.mcdonalds.co.uk/)

Its a great opportunity but no doubt will be over subscribed.

Entry requirements:

have a pulse

at least two facial piercings

any other number of body piercings

greater than two pimples per square centimetre

greasy hair

bad attitude

Any feed back on the last selection would be appreciated if you know how to use a computer.

[PPRuNeUser0215]

Does anyone knows the perks, salaries and time before you get a command on the till?


Northern Highflyer : Don't knock it, at least you have a Frying job! Many of us would kill to be where you are and if it's that bad, why don't you leave?
Now I ll address a question for those who still enjoy what they do and who still remember they were once wannabe fryers...

A friend of mine is nearly 18 but he wonders if he is now too old to start? I told him to go for it because he shouldn't be 23 (or worse 33) when he realises that he has missed out on his dream career. Of course it is a big gamble for him so he is very unsure about what to do. Any input?

[foghorn]

The problem is that the job just isn't what it used to be. Once upon a time all burger flippers were employed by the state via Big Burgers.

A standard shift would involve a few hours at the grill followed by days of layover in a hotel, endless parties, rogering the serving girls, then a few hours at the grill again before going home. You were given your golden burger at 44 and could look forward a cushy retirement on a civil service pension, enjoying your accrued rights of cheap burgers at any of the other outlets.

Then came the low-cost outfits like Easyburger which come with no salad or fries and only one sauce that has a distinct taste of taramasalata (for £1.50 extra), and now for fryers it's 899.9 hours at the grill a year and no layovers, no cheap burgers and fry till you drop.

The whole burger market has never the same since.

[JohnnyPharm]

Foghorn.

You are right, the big two ie British Burgers and British Midland Burgers terms and conditions have totally dropped. (Scroggs, excuse me for posting this here, if you want you can boot this post into the "Terms and Endearments" listing).

I remeber as a new recruit getting up at 4am for a 6am start, scraping the ice from my bicycle and happily riding to work knowing I had fulfilled my dream. Arriving at work I was met by the night freight boys dropping off the baps and lettuce, a good bunch of lads, but you just felt they hadn't made the grade to be where I was.

Then onto the right hand side of that flamemaster. You could not remove the grin from ear ear to ear across my face, yes and I was actually getting paid a decent wage to do this too. Women loved me, people always wanted to ask us questions and little Jimmy on his package holiday to Blackpool always enjoyed coming back to have a look at the business end of the operation.

Sadly after 9/11 little Jimmy cannot come look see anymore, we are locked in there til the last customer has left. I enjoyed showing them round explaining what all the knobs, dials, and buttons did. Its a shame now really as we cannot fire these kids' imagination and get them interested in flipping as a career or as a hobby

[Frank Furillo]

Anybody know where I can get a 7fri7 or a Airburger A 1/4 Pounder type rating, I know it's cheating, after all most fATPL's wash restrooms and sweep floors for many years before getting to Fry on a regular basis, but i am prepared to do it in the hope of getting a job with the big guys.

Also anybody know anything about Eagle-Burgers 1000 burgers and 5000 Burgers and fries programs??

[sullyd]

Im wondering if anybody has heard any news on the above, im trying to secure a job with a charter chipper, but my contract would be up in october, although i would have some griller in command time to help me try and secure a permenant position, whats the best grill rating, will ctc guarantee you a job with easySweat burgers, any help would be grrrrrrrrrrrreat,

id love a bowl of frosties now.

[Harvester]

I admit the fast food market's pretty bad at the moment guys but you've all just got to keep your chins up and stop uising this forum as an excuse for moaning about not getting that first frying job.
I decided the best way in was to merely start off in the industry with any job - sweeping or tills, even wiping the tables is better than doing something unrelated. I'm now on the tills for a major outlet and learning every step of the way. Making new contacts in the industry is easy from this position and my company say they will try to get me rated on the deep fryer - ok it's not burgers yet but at least it's a start on the frying side of things and I only have to pay for 75% of the rating cost.
Best advice I can give is to use your fast food contacts wisely and keep hammering out cv's. Keep visiting any local outlets and hang aoround - eat as miuch as poss and put on some weight to show your interested. all though it's a slim chance now with security as it is try to sit in on some quality frying and flipping time behind the counter - they can only say no.

Hope advice helps.

Cheers - Harvester

[what who me?]

I should know, I am one of them! To help all the Brits out there I have now resigned from McD and taken up a post as F/O with a British airline. My position as four star flipper is now available for home grown British talent. Good luck with the application!

Ps: did someone say foreigners don't understand British humour?

A few corrections on your collective grammar:

Foghorn: The whole burger market has never the same since.

...has never been the same...

sullyd: i

...I...

MJR: The're stealing our jobs type rant!

They're....

I hope you are putting a bit more effort into your cover letters. No wonder McD doesn't look at you!

[JohnnyPharm]

Just a thought, but have any of you guys/girls got a back up plan in case the arse falls out the burger industry.

Airline pilot springs to mind, pay and conditions are crap but you can pick up a position pretty easy, and it can be a stop gap until the fryers are running at full throttle again.

[MJR]

Thanks WWM, I'll correct it right away. Naturally it was a diliferate mistale, to see if there wur any inteligunt PPruners out there.

[boeingbus2002]

**WARNING**
BALPA (British American Lamb Patties Association) has issued a scam warning about companies pretending to be genuine food outlets. KFC (Krunchy Fried Chicken) use the guise of another successful Chicken outlet and lure potential fryers to pay for their own fryer ratings. However they fail to even provide that, leaving many hopefulls in huge debts and still no jobs.

[PPRuNeUser0215]

Guys, Fryanair is recruiting!!! I hear they charge for they application, is it true?

[JohnnyPharm]

Has anyone thought outside of the civilian route ie th RAF (Royal Air Friers)

Or else the lo-co friers

Easy Fry, BFryBaby, FryBE.com

[IRRenewal]

Funny thing happened when FryEurope was recruiting: plenty of applications received from British wannabee fryers willing to go and work there for very little money.

Double standards? Discuss.

[stellair]

I feel for you all I really do but take a leaf out of my book. Before you fork out for another grill rating, take a quarter of the cash and spend it on the salad station class rating,....ok, I know I know it's not where we wish to finish our careers but I't is good fun and you can at least still have a nibble while waiting for that grill to get hot??? :=

[jsf]

stellair

The problem is that you can easily get into a situation where you have just too many salad station hours. You may enjoy that onion munching and pickle dipping now but the novelty will wear off after a couple of years.

Far more relevant to your career aspirations, the Tea class rating is the one to have, especiallty if you have differences training with milk and sugar on type.

jsf

PS there is no point getting the lemon conversion, you'll just never use it in todays marketplace.

[OfficeCloset]

It seems to be a hard burger to swallow in the current climate.