DEC's for Air New Zealand

[Morwheus]

Is it possible that Air New Zealand will require Direct Entry Captains for 777 and 7E7 as crewing will be limited. Apparently the present pilot contract doesn't allow for such a thing but this is going to change. Remember the 747-400's. watchout guys its a changing world and Air New Zealand is constantly changing. Wait for the euphoria to die and see whats next. New toys new conditions!

[max rate]

Yeah, right.:hmm:

[propaganda]

Morwheus,
Not whilst your backside is pointing south..:mad:

[Friendly Pelican]

Or mine.

:mad:

[R4+Z]

Hate to be pedantic but living in the southern hemisphere your backside actually points north.

:D :D :D

[Morwheus]

Didn't the unthinkable happen with the introduction of 747-400.....and didn't they split the pilot group because of the selfish, greedy attitudes of those very senior who had nothing to loose.

Ask yourselves this, is the industry the same now as it was 10yrs ago or even 5yrs ago! and is Air New Zealand ready to take on the the "big guns" and if so does ANZ have a profitable, cost effective work force. Look at the flight attendants...6month contracts ...short layovers. Can the pilots be more flexible or is it easier to bring qualified more flexible guys to get on with the job. This isn't new to the industry. Even on a temporary basis

You will be getting the 777 but as group it will cost you something. The competition is hotting up and there are bigger players with more bigger financial backing to be tackled.

I hope you are right when you say it wont. If there is even a hint of trouble I am sure a few wet leases on a rolling temporary basis could be considered

And of course there is always Freedom. Now there's a hungry cost effective pilot group. :ok:

[Sid Departure]

Only one problem with getting direct entry captains' for the 7E7,..............





there are none!:rolleyes:

[Morwheus]

I haven't mentioned the 7E7 , but now that someone has.... what do you think will happen with only 2 of them.

Please tell me you guys aren't that slow.

Morf

[Sid Departure]

Morf, if you go back and read your original post, I think you'll notice that you did mention the 7E7.

Cheers:ok:

[phat boy]

what do you think will happen with only 2 of them Hmmmm..... let me think. :zzz:

I think they'll spend their days taking off, flying somewhere else and landing...

Although with only TWO of them..... hmm.

Is this a trick question? :confused:

:rolleyes:

[Morwheus]

sorry Sid you are so right I did mention the 7E7 in my original post ...plse forgive me for this very small oversight! and hey "Phats" I just left you a note at A330 gear down posting which I am sure you will enjoy.

Look!.... the question is what is Air New Zealand doing with such a mixed fleet ...the 737 classic's will be replaced by the A320/321 or even 319's....the 767 will be replaced by the 777-200 as would some of the 747-400's with 777-300ER's. The 747-400 days are numbered. Cost too much to operate. They make great freighters.

surely with the short haul fleet. ie Regional ....ANZ Express/ domestic being Airbus and the Medium / longrange being 777 and 747-400 (747-400 being reviewed) it doesnt make sense to have just 2 7E7's...... does it.

You either announce a fleet replacement or have a start up with two new planes.

My guess is Freedom. They need to replace the the 737 classic as we all know they aren't getting the A320's and the 7E7 performance and fuel economy will be perfect for that kind of operation.

Its my guess and Time will tell. :cool:

[phat boy]

Read it.

Liked it.

Replied.

I think the hotdog actually meant to type ''really intelligent''.... didn't she?

Still can't see why some people get so upset over others butch-slapping airbus.

:confused:

[Chimbu chuckles]

From chatting to some ex ANZ pilots in recent times it seems their time to command is really long...I mean really, REALLY long.

If DECs were tried by the 'management' I would think there'd be a better than even chance of MASSIVE industrial action and MASSIVE resignations as peeps headed O/S were a command might be had in as little as 2 years in asia.

DECs are sometimes needed...in this case might cost ANZ lots more than they could afford.

Chuck.

[Morwheus]

You are probably right Chucks.....all I am saying if its tried ......is the pilot group close tight to handle it or as in the past when it comes to having something new with a new set of rules will some of them break away.

Airlines are constantly changing strategies and Air New Zealand is no exception:)

[topend3]

My guess is Freedom. They need to replace the the 737 classic as we all know they aren't getting the A320's and the 7E7 performance and fuel economy will be perfect for that kind of operation.

hmmm, i could never see the 7E7 working for Freedom, i think they may go the Airbus way as well with the 319/320.

the 7E7 will be used for long range routes out of AKL surely, like Japan, China etc, and open up new opportunities.

really the fleet won't be THAT mixed will it? 777,7E7, 747 for long haul, with 747 to be phased out eventually, and airbus for the short stuff.

they are doing a big revamp of the '74 interiors with the whole ife upgrade and the like so can see them being around a while yet.

[ZK-NSN]

Unless im missing something important, wouldnt they just take the guys from the 767/747-400 when they retire them and give them ratings?
I dont know what if any agreement the union has with the airline but that is the "dogs balls" solution to it. your right when you say that its a compeditive industry and airline management would sell their mothers if they thought they could get any money out of it but....there is'nt that many experienced pilots out there anymore.

[Big Kahuna]

I can't see ANZ having crewing problems on the 777 and 7E7, as most likely these 2 aircraft will be operated by the same crew.

Cross Crew Qualified(CCQ) just as it is on the 757/767 and A330/A340.

It's not that hard...

[halas]

Hasn't someone told the Air New Zealand aircraft buyers that Ansett is gone and there is no need for a fleet update any more?

Hope the New Zealand tax payers (As few as they are these days) don't mind forking out for these new aircraft.

But then again l don't think the ANZ management give a stuff what they think, as they have never given a stuff about what anyone thinks in the past anyway.

halas

[phat boy]

Some quality rancour there.

The sheep-molesters can issue a few more shares to pony up the dough.

And maybe make use of a few of the spares they ripped off the carcass as it died.

With Ansett gone who's paying ANZ's fuel bill??? Must be tuff.....

[CI300]

your a phat troll. I will say it agin..

[belowMDA]

The issue of there only being two 7E7's is not a significant one. First of all there is no way they will go to Freedom. Freedom are a budget carrier who, like Virgin Blue Jet* etc, squeeze as many people into an aircraft because people are prepared to put up with this for short periods of time. Would any of you sit in cattle class a la Virgin blue for 15 hours? not bloody likely.

Second of all you also need to factor in the 42 options. At least some of these will end up being 7E7's. Air NZ I am sure were persuaded to be a launch customer for the a/c as Boeing probably wants to get the ball rolling a bit and you will possibly see a few more orders for the aircraft seeing another airline has now opted for the long range 7E7. The first 7E7's will go to ANA so it could possibly be 2009 before ANZ receives their first aircraft. By that point ANZ will have a much clearer view of how the aircraft will fit into their fleet.

Because of the cabin upgrade on the -400 they will remain in service until 2008 whereupon they are likely to be replaced by 777-300ER's. This is again where the options comes into play. If ANZ are operating 777's 747's 7E7's and 767's all at once it will only be for a very short period of time.

As for DEC's: again, not bloody likely!!!!!

[montys ex teaboy]

ANZ DEC's??

Don't think so. Where would they get them from?? I have always been under the impression, to join ANZ you have to be as smart and as slick, as for eg., a NASA graduate, and nothing less.

Let's face it, they can't have rif raf within the ranks can they??

[Balding Eagle]

I have got $10,000 in any currency you like that I will gladly deposit into a lawyers trust account when matched by someone else who thinks that Air NZ will take direct entry captains. Air NZ has just introduced a fleet of A320's that took considerable flexibility by everyone to achieve. There was never any suggestion then of direct entry captains.

Bear in mind that the 777-200ER is going to replace the 767. There will be a small initial bulge but the 767s will depart as the 777s arrive. There will be no need nor suggestion of direct entry captains for the 777.

:rolleyes:

[Wizofoz]

DEC's into Mainline, very unlikely.

But what about them starting a subsidury (possibly Aus based), ala Australian, Jetstar, Freedom etc.

Seems to be the current trend.

[Andromeda]

I think that DECs will be most unlikely. The transition to the A320 has proven there is no need.

On a brighter note - one would think Air NZ F/Os would be up for command a little sooner perhaps over the next few years, with lots of retirements at the top end etc.

Will the re-organisation of the fleet affect this - better prospects or worse ?

Any idea how long it will now take for an Air NZ F/O to be eligible for upgrade ? It used to be years............

But that could change hopefully in the future.

Any ideas ?