747 Question

[Sonic Zepplin]

A quick question regarding the 747 if I may;

With all the old airframes moving cargo around the world and the abundance of 400's (airframes) sitting idle, why aren't these airframes being picked up and utilized.

I would guess that they are less expensive to operate due to 1 less crew member being required and a bit better on fuel flow.

Any thoughts,

[Taikonaut]

747-400F $100 - $150 million per copy.

747 Classics Freighters - $2 - $5 million each.

F/Es in the US earn about - $80 - $100K/ year.

Do the math...

Boxes don't care what they fly in.
;)

[Dan Winterland]

A 747-400 freighter conversion does not exist at the moment. The first ones will roll out of TAECO in Xiamen next year - probably for Cathay Pacific. Elbit in Israel and Singapore engineering will follow suit soon after.

However, the conversion will stiil be pricey, over 50 million U$ I estimate. The benefits will be lower fuel burns of about 2 tonne an hour, lower maintenance costs, about 10 tonnes extra payload. The reduced crew may not be a factor as any flights of over say about ten hours will require an extra pilot due to flight time limitations.

The economics of the conversions are only just starting to look attractive when you weigh up the costs of keeping older airframes running with required updates such as for the new RNP rules in Europe coming in to force.

[IBTheseus]

It is interesting pricing the value of reliability and flexibility (RNP, RVSM).

Some companies (CAL, AF etc) seem to be able buy B744F new off the production line to improve dispatch reliablity over older airframes.

I would also suggest if the price of oil remains at current levels, this also will add to the impetus for more efficient engines.

It also seems at the moment that there is more profit from cargo than pax. Adds to the demand for B744F. I expect quite a demand for B744f freighter conversion, especially in Asia.

[Sonic Zepplin]

I suspect the you are both correct.

The airframe time on the 100 & 200 have got to be enormously high, as well as the maintenance cost of maintaining these aircraft.

I would think if you can buy an airframe from the desert for pennies on the dollar of new aircraft, it would be an attractive deal for carriers that operate this type.

No wait for aircraft off of production line and better bet while waiting for A380 to get certified, if all fail your hedged for results.

No offense against Airbus, great product at great prices, but for LH what will fill the void of the 747, 777, A340?

[Phil Squares]

The US$50 million price tag on the -400 conversion also includes a D check. The mod also resolves the upperdeck problem that hurt the -300 conversion. The 744F has the 100/200 upperdeck and has a minimum number of height restricted positions on the main deck, where as the -300 has several restrictions due to the ceiling under the upper deck. On the 400 conversion, the upper deck will be modified to allow higher pallet sizes.

Just as a note, the 380F only has a 20 tonne increase in payload, no nose door. Outsize cargo that is loaded on the 400F through the nose door will not be able to be carried on the 380F. In fact, the engines for the 380 will not fit through the side door.