bmi ballot (Pilots reject pay offer)

[Fuzzy112]

bmi mainline pilots are about to be balloted on the 1.5% corporate rise. Anyone care to speculate on the result ?

[M.Mouse]

Difficult one to call but I think it will either be endorsed or rejected.

[Fuzzy112]

Difficult one to call but I think it will either be endorsed or rejected.
I guess there is a good chance of this since there are only two choices !

[Count von Altibar]

I think the result is a foregone conclusion. The pay offer will be rejected because it's a complete insult to the pilots at bmi. Remember that 1.5% is a pay cut in real terms.

[Bezi l]

Count - I agree - it is a complete insult, and not just to the pilots - 1.5% is a decrease - but at least it is better than nothing.

The rest of your colleagues at Toad Hall (i.e. non operational) have also had a pay rise this year.... 1.5% or £300, which ever was the greater... and because we're not unionised, we have had to accept it.... no discussions.

bl

[Chalky]

and because we're not unionised, we have had to accept it.... no discussions.

So get yourselves a union!

[Dewdrop]

Yea BALPA will really help....not !

[Young Paul]

(Just for the sake of evenhandedness, it is worth pointing out that bmi pilots, like most others, also get an annual increment, which might take the overall increase for the year to close to RPI)

[Max Angle]

The increments only go up to year 13 so anyone beyond that will only get 1.5% which will be rejected out of hand.

[Chalky]

(Just for the sake of evenhandedness, it is worth pointing out that bmi pilots, like most others, also get an annual increment, which might take the overall increase for the year to close to RPI)

As Max Angle says, a significant number of pilots no longer benefit from annual increments. And while the overall increase might be close to RPI, don't forget there was a pay freeze last year. Over the last two years bmi mainline pilots' salaries have not only failed to keep up with the cost of living but have also fallen well below the level of pay of other comparable airlines.

[EPLS]

8 to 10% lower than camparable airlines [tracker types].
20% lower than BA shorthaul.
If bmi accepts 1.5% wait until next year and your wage will be on a par with flybe.

[lamina]

Just for the sake of evenhandedness, it is worth pointing out that bmi pilots, like most others, also get an annual increment, which might take the overall increase for the year to close to RPI

Incremental pay was in the contract when everyone signed up. To use it as a pay rise is disengeneous to say the least. Using that line of thinking you could join the airline and not expect a proper pay rise after 13 years!!! Its called taking the pish, albeit with ones tongue firmly in ones cheek, I'm sure!!!!!

Good try though:hmm:

[Red 69]

Maybe if management got their heads out of their a***s they would see how unhappy the majority of the workforce are. If we were treated to proper pay rises, at least in line with inflation, then people may feel a little more respected and valued and not look for pastures new. This would have the effect of cutting down on training costs (and keeping a much higher experience level) which would help fund the pay rises! Maybe the company just like an inexperienced workforce though because it only then has to pay a low incremental salary. What price safety? Difficult to cost all this, if not impossible, but I'm sure it'd help!:\

[Young Paul]

Well, I know what you are saying. On the other hand .....

.... in many jobs, you don't get an "increment" for doing the same job for longer - it might be in the contract, but that doesn't mean that it isn't an increase in pay ....

.... the proportion of pilots who don't get a pay rise because of seniority (bear in mind that 13 years isn't 13 years in the company, but 13 years command time - i.e. normally at least 16 years in the company) is not large - 10% at most? Surely the thinking ought to be to extend the scale, rather than saying it invalidates the concept for the other 90% of pilots ....

.... there are things I'd much rather have from my employer than an extra £1.50 a day. Oddly enough, they'd be in the employer's interest as well ....

[keyboard flier]

You could look at it this way, at least you are getting a rise!
1.5% or £300 whichever is the greater. To some of the pilots the 1.5% will be probably be more than quadruple the amount that some of the Donny Hall crew will get, and still you bleat. If you are that disgruntled - leave!!!!!!!!.
The mass exodus that featured on this forum some weeks ago doesn't seemed to have happened. There seem to be many who are brave in word but not in action.

I agree that the management don't seem to know or care how the workforce feel and until something happens to let them know nothing will happen. Who amongst you is prepared to put their words in action.

[Fuzzy112]

Who amongst you is prepared to put their words in action

Without a single reservation I am prepared to do just that. You should be aware of the fact that a number of people couldn't give a toss if this company went to the wall. Think about that for a min cos if it is true then they have nothing to loose.

What is happening now is the culmination of years of unbelievable indifference of senior management in the company towards its workforce. I would prefer it if we didn't bother with the pay ballot, lets just have a strike ballot.

[keyboard flier]

I have worked for places where some of the workforce couldn't give a toss about the company and what happened to it. But when push comes to shove they haven't had the bottle to make that step to risk losing their jobs, and I think this will be no different. These people always have plenty to say to anyone who will listen but when it comes down to it will do nothing to jeopardise their jobs and careers.

I do think it is time that the management took their heads out of the sand and realised what is going on. They are sitting comfortably at the top of their trees and seem to be far removed from the grass roots of the company and they won't see it coming until maybe its too late, and that goes for pilot management too.

[keepitlit]

With all respect, Pilots cannot be compared to other departments, they should be compared to other Airlines, as per the original agreement which the management backed out of.
I have seen a continuing descent of terms and payment conditions within a fairly short space of time.
I didn’t spend up to £60k to watch a job that I enjoy, progressively deteriorate to such a degree resulting in working harder for less money never mind the respect.
At the end of the day inflation is running at an average of 2.8%,take that over 2 years and in actual fact a pay loss of 3.1% has occurred , increments are not included as they are mere loyalty bonuses however if you want them involved then they haven’t changed in quite a few years so I think they will need a fairly hefty rise!
Compare Pilots with Pilots alike

Rgds

K.I.L.:ok:

[Count von Altibar]

Well said KIL! Young Paul you are obviously a management wannabe or actually already doing it. Don't underestimate the level of discontent in bmi at the moment. Things are picking up with the exception of the price of fuel and the pilots are getting ready for a fight. Roll out the ballot! I would be very worried if I was pilot management at the moment as Mr Bish will not be impressed when we start throwing our toys out of the cot!

[Young Paul]

I am neither a management wanabee nor a manager, I can assure you. I just want the airline to keep existing for the sake of the other employees - a strike is a very good way of avoiding that outcome. It's just that I really don't care that much about another few pounds, when there are such huge other issues that don't seem to be on the agenda.

[keyboard flier]

Why should pilots not be compared to other departments. Everyone is an employee of the company they work for whether they be the cleaner or the CEO. It seems to be some have the impression that they are more important than others in their company. The pilots may have task of transporting the company customers, but their are many more people that help them do it, without whom they couldn't perform their job at all.

I predict that there will be a lot of shouting, a lot of threats and very little action!!!!!

[Chalky]

Why should pilots not be compared to other departments
Comparing the pay levels of people doing different jobs within an organisation is pointless, because each group has their own particular skills which determine what level of remuneration they can command. Pilots should be compared with other pilots, in the same way that accountants should be compared with other accountants, and cleaners with other cleaners. There is a going rate for the job, and that is what the bmi pilots are looking for.

[keyboard flier]

I believe that this thread was started regarding the pay offer from the company, not a comparision of who earns what within the company because if that was the case the pilots would be very near the top.
In any profession some companies pay more than others, this is life, and I stand by my last statement on my previous post.

[keepitlit]

Keyboard, all we want is just above the average which is the going rate which the company agreed to then backed out of,as for compairing departments,I bet you didnt pay 60k to sit where you are so pull your neck in.Oh and yes I did it for the love of flying but if Id known how the industry was going to turn out I would have spent the money on some thing else

rgds K.I.L.:ok:

[keyboard flier]

KIL,
It seems that some want more than others. The company has made an offer and some have had to accept that whether they agreed or not. Others have the choice as the unions are involved, although if those sections of the company get a higher pay increase than others, then what?
You could look at it, that after no payrise last year, there is one this, albeit a woefully inadequate one.
I would like to bet that the higher echelons don't get 1.5%, but think that the rest of us would be happy with their pitiful offering of a payrise that is just over half of the RPI.

As for pulling my neck in, I am entitled to my opinion as is my right, as you are entitled to yours. You may not like it and I my not like yours, but that is the price we pay for living in a society that allows free speech.

[Chalky]

....if those sections of the company get a higher pay increase than others, then what?
Why should everyone in the Company get the same pay increase? Individual groups are entitled to be paid the going rate for their particular function or skill.

I would like to bet that the higher echelons don't get 1.5%
the rest of us would be happy with their pitiful offering of a payrise that is just over half of the RPI.
Why should you be happy with a pay cut in real terms? According to the Sunday Times Rich List, the bmi Chairman's wealth increased by 12% in the last year.

[keyboard flier]

You have not read the post properly have you?
This thread is not whether a pilot should or should not be paid more than, say, an engineer. Various positions in a company are always paid differently form others.

I will try and spell it out for you.
t h i s t h r e a d i s w h e t h e r p i l o t s s h o u l d a c c e p t
a 1 . 5 % p a y d e a l .
Is that clear enough!!!!!!!!

The question is - how do you think that the rest of the company employees would feel if the pilots got a, say, 3% increase?
Most, if not all, would be fairly pi$$ed off about it, and what if they decided to strike, eh? Not a lot would go on if ops walked out, would it?

If you are not happy with what the company pays you, then find a job that does, simple as that.

[lamina]

Oh dear, keyboard has managed to become the 3rd member of my ignore list after the guvnor and 411A.

That is quite some company your keeping!!!!:sad:

[Fuzzy112]

The question of whether one employee group should be treated differently from another one has been done so many times on pprune that it really is a stuck record. Yes, the original question was whether the pilots would accept the 1.5% which is now being balloted.


Most, if not all, would be fairly pi$$ed off about it,

And there we have it, you are quite correct BUT the responsibility for this rests firmly with the company who have decided that a corporate pay rise should apply and that is at the root of all these problems - now I don't expect you to agree with that but most, if not all, would.

[bean_counter]

Go on strike and play right into his hands, you think SMB isn't smart enough to know that:

1. He needs a big pile of cash to invest in baby if it's going to survive

2. The long term future for a "Full Service"/High(er) cost operator at Heathrow flying exclusively on shorthaul is decades of struggling to break - even at best

3. There is a thriving and very lucrative market for slots at Heathrow, which will make the SE property boom look like the great depression if EU-USA open skies agreement arrives. (Why do you think Branson is gagging to get in first - it's not so he can fly to Paris and Brussels)


The only question remains is, how can he get bmi into a position where he can rip up his contractual obligations and start selling bits off to the highest bidder? Perhaps by triggering a strike and watching the company go under........... just my guess for what its worth, but of course, I'm not a pilot

[edited for incompetent use of keyboard 1st time round]

[Fuzzy112]

Perhaps by triggering a strike and watching the company go under...........

I really, really hope that this is what is about to happen. I look forward to a change of ownership. The sooner the better!


Why do you think Branson is gagging to get in first

I don't think he is gagging to get in first. If I was him I would be waiting to pick up the pieces- they will be MUCH cheaper then.

[keyboard flier]

Fuzzy,
Is not the same increase across the board the fairest way. What would happen if, for example, the pilots got 3%, the engineers got 5%, ground staff got 2% and others got 2.5%. All those that got a lower payrise would create merry hell, even if it meant that based on salary it was a comparable increase for all, far fetched I know.
I don't believe there is a completely fair way of implementing a pay increase like this, but if bean_counters right, what then.

And for being on laminas ingore list, so what, if they don't like what is written they don't have to read it.

[MaximumPete]

The 1.5% offer is what the management hope to get away with,
bearing in mind the state of the industry.

In the past we had a 29.5% yes 29.5% imposed on us over two years when things were a little different.

The other problem is lack of funding for a larger pay rise in the event of industrial action. Here are three examples of where some of the money has gone:-

1. Anderson Consulting

2. Various automated computer crewing systems.

3. Quality Circles and all those free lunches at Donington Park

I reckon about £15million from these three alone.

Good luck with the negotiations.

Bezil

If you want to know how to start your own union drop me a private message

MP;)

[Fuzzy112]

Is not the same increase across the board the fairest way

It might seem to be the fairest way but it ignores the fact that written into the pilots afs is a clause which allows for 'negotiation' each year as part of a pay package - life is not fair afterall. Surely even you would agree that the company should keep their part of a contract of employment ? This company by using the 'corporate rise' philosophy have been abusing this contract of employment for years and they are about to reap the benefit of what they sow. This is not about greedy pilots or pilots wanting something different, it is about pilots who want their contract of employment honoured - not so much to ask for when you look at it that way.

[keyboard flier]

The way it stands at the moment is that only the managers have had the 1.5% increase, becase none of the unions have agreed to it. So it could be that everyone gets a different rate anyway as there are still talks with BALPA, AEEU, GMB, et al.
However I still think that everone will get 1.5% and the management will expect us all to be happy at their generosity and congratulate themselves with the usual remuneration.

[Leezyjet]

Slightly off topic but related non the less, and thought ypu might be interested to know whats happening on the ground.....

The Dispatch Dept at LHR has lost 1/2-3/4 of their experienced staff in the last 6-12 months.

At one time, you had to be in the company for at least 18 months to go into dispatch and proove yourself worthy, now they will take anyone who can string a sentance together, after 6 months or less.

Result:-
A lot of inexperienced dispatchers sending you on your way.

Reason :-
People are sick of all the crap from management, no payrise (well a £300/year insult - or £25/month before tax !!!) , no proper equipment to do the job, blagging your way through each day just to keep the operation running.......(this is how a normal day at Bmi LHR is run purely on blagging it). After a while people get sick of banging their heads against the wall, and leave.

What other option do you have when the Station managements attitude is that there are loads of people working in Tesco's that would love your job - if you don't like it leave. But they have to realise there isn't that queue of people at the door anymore.

I know people who do the recruitment for ground staff at LHR and they are shocked at the poor quality of staff that are coming into the company, and they are the best ones they can get !!!.

Dispatch is one of the few positions that get to speak with almost all departments in the company, so it's not just you guys who are p:mad: ed. It's everyone - You are not alone.

:)

[KAT TOO]

Results from the Regional ballot are due on Friday, the CC told crews that the increase (sic) was to be imposed from the 1st of June so you might as well vote for it!

Needless to say it didn’t take most long to realise that what it meant was you could vote NO and still get a pay rise (of sorts?). The company has added that if mainline or baby get more than 1.5% ,then regional will get the same (so you don’t need BALPA is the implied message!)

Again its seen for what it is, they think everyone is either happy or stupid, the current betting is that the pay offer will be rejected by 80%+ and the BALPA vote the following month will be 75%+ in favour….

Oh happy days…….
:ok:

[Fuzzy112]

and the BALPA vote the following month will be 75%+ in favour….

What do you mean by this?

[CarltonBrowne the FO]

Fuzzy, at bmi regional there is no BALPA recognition; after a ballot in favour this spring, the company decided to have an ACAS ballot held on the same subject- AFTER the current pay negotiation!

[flyingfrog]

It seems to me that salaries company wide don't seem to compare with the world outside of BMI.

Looking in the local rag's job section tonight a couple of comparisons:

accounts assistant £15000+, similar position within BMI £12500

internet bank tel agent £14500+, res agent BMI £12500 (these are basic salaries)

I for one am P****d off with what has been offered by the company for what they call a "pay rise", but can not afford to strike, as I have a house and family to provide for. The board know this and this is why they know they can offer £300 and get away with it.

I don't want the company to go bust in the hope of new owners etc as some people have stated, I just wish for the board to recognise the good job that all departments are doing and reward us for this!!

On another note, there was supposed to be a pc refresh scheduled for the company in the spring, money had apparently been set asside to pay for this. I have heard that this has been delayed, but am not aware of the reason.

How many companies of this size are still using Windows 95 today?

One last thing for all to ponder:

Aviance may strike over there 2.5% pay rise offer, are the BMI board expecting BMI employees to cover the ramp staff if they do strike, as happened a few years back in DUB? I can't see BMI staff being to happy to cover for people who are striking over wanting a higher pay rise figure than we have been offered.

This summer could turn out to be very interesting.

[spannerhead]

An input from the engineers. I've read this post with great interest and I now know that everyone employed by bmi are totally pissed off with the managements offer of a so called pay rise. We stuck with them through the 911 crises (which i believe to be an excuse for all airlines not to give a decent rise) and now they can't use that excuse, I find it hard to believe that they are still only in a position to offer 1.5%. The engineers at all stations are really backing themselves because we're just as disgruntled with what's been offered. We don't need to strike at all. We'll just refuse to use the orange boxes they provide to reach the tops of engines etc and the out of date equipment that is the only equipment available to us. In other words, a bit of a work to rule. Believe me, if we only withdrew a slight bit of our (only too much) flexibility, you guys wouldn't have anything to fly. It really is that bad. It's a damn shame because I enjoy the working environment and the guys I work with. By the way, have you heard that there are 2 330's with bmi fins on the production line at Tolouse. You won't hear anything official till eveyone has settled.

[buzzlitebeer]

there are 2 330's with bmi fins on the production line at Tolouse

Spannerhead, I've heard similar rumours. The question is, with the possiblility of strike action this summer and a load of pilots leaving for BA/Virgin, who's going to fly them?

[keyboard flier]

a load of pilots leaving for BA/Virgin, who's going to fly them?

If you asked for a show of hands on who is going to leave, I reckon there would be quite a few. In 6 months time you asked again I say that most of those hands would still be there.

A lot of people have said that they want a decent salary and if that is all they are being offered they'll leave. Saying they'll leave is one thing, doing it a completely different I don't think that many will do. Beside for some being miserable about their job keeps them happy.

[Std Speed]

FACT - Ba have been flooded with applications from Airbus
rated BMI pilots. Some have passed selection, some have not. First contracts to be offered early July.

People ARE going to leave. !!!

[Suggs]

Heard from our boys that approx 2/3rds of BMI drivers had applied to BA.

Not surprised

[normal_nigel]

God

Must be bad at Pink Air.

NN

[keepitlit]

Ive heard that the V pool is around 27,any more bids

rgds
K.I.L.

[Best foot forward]

Hi Guys and Gals

i don't log on here very often and have just registered. I think the regional ballot is counted tomorrow and we have been told that whether it is yeah woopi we like our pay rise or neah can't you do better than that we are going to get the rise implemented in July. I guess our management could go work for Britannia and feel at home. I voted against as i'm sure did most of my colleagues mainly to show some solidarity with our mainline brothers who are pushing hard for a more realistic deal. Now our management have said that if mainline get more than 1.5% then they give us the hire figure, I only wish that all the departments within the bmi group are trated the same.

[keyboard flier]

Some will leave, it happens in a company of this size, there is always a turnover of staff, to go elsewhere. And some may go to BA or Virgin, but it is implied that lots will go. No way, there will be no mass exodus from bmi, it has been rumoured before and it didn't happen, because there are many who are stick in the mud employees, plodding along in their job. And that goes for all department including pilots.

[Going Around]

Confirmed, half the 330 FO's in the V pool

[keyboard flier]

If the aforementioned pilots do leave the fold, who's going to fly the new planes.
http://www.airbus.com/doc/media/ordersndeliveries/orders_n_deliveries.xls[/URL]

This says that Airbus have delivered one A330 and another is on order.
Come on management is there something you're not telling us.

[Best foot forward]

For what its worth regional pilots have voted against the pay deal so we will see where taht takes us.

As far as a mass exodus from mainline, you will find that those on a final salary pension which is probably still a majourity of crew certainly anyone who has been there more than five years, will stay those on the money purchase scheme have nothing much to lose. The only question is how many will the other companies take.

[Maxfli]

Mr Keyboard,

Not quite right...............

Ordered 1
Delivered 1
Operating 3

= 1 ordered (which has been delivered)
Operating 3 (means other 2 are leased)

Search GECAS & ILFC.

The ironic aspect about people who vote with their feet is that they never benefit from the fallout. I believe the BMI management have an attitude which says "well if they haven't left they're going to stay so why pay them more."

Bishop himself regarded BMI as a training airline for longhaul carriers. (Many years ago at a BALPA jobs day out)

[Fuzzy112]

Result...

"The result has been an Overwhelming NO vote and rejection to the Pay Offer of 1.5% as Balloted."

As I think has also been the case in bmi baby.

Interesting times.

[Lizzie]

There may not be a flood, but the first trickle is oozing from the A330 fleet. 8 more to go from there, and many more to follow.

Final Salary Pension? Excellent, one less to pay out.

6 Years of increments v Year One Oxo? More savings.

Training costs? We have the Trg Capts and Sims - use them.


They don't care. ('Let them go' was the quote from ##).

What's BA/Virgin's telephone number - I don't want to be left behind in the rush..........!!!

[Double Entry]

I have it on good authority that despite a lot of BM interviews taking place at BA (more than 70), only about 7 considered suitable, and those not actually offered jobs anyway due to the pension fiasco going on at BA.

A more cynical person might suspect that the two companies have an informal agreement not to screw each other too much, one with fares and the other with recruitment.

If I were MB I wouldn't be losing any sleep over pilot departures.

[Count von Altibar]

Apparently the pilots at bmi have rejected the company 1.5% pay offer by a resounding 95% vote against it. From what I hear a ballot for industrial action will follow shortly.

[Chalky]

I didn't realise that 5% of bmi BALPA members were management pilots......;)

[Young Paul]

I seriously doubt that BA has any interest in looking after bmi. However, bmi training is considered of very high quality, and their Airbus pilots are as good as any - I think BA recruitment is still missing the point. Either that, or bmi pilots have too much character :E .

[keyboard flier]

So the pilots reject the pay offer. whoopeedo, what a surprise. So the negotiations go on a while longer, in the meantime they don't get their payrise yet. The question is, who will drag it out longer? the company to avoid paying out more money, or the union who have to justify their subscriptions to the members.
The company has already made the offer of a payrise. So who are the greedy ones? The pilots wanting a bigger payrise than their fellow employees or the unions who feel it is their duty to delay talks as long as possible.

[Max Angle]

I don't think anyones being greedy, virtually none of the union groups at bmi mainline and baby have accepted the offer nor are they likely too. 1.5% represents a cut in real terms and there was no rise at all last year, someone is being greedy but it's not the employees.

[Fuzzy112]

So the negotiations go on a while longer, in the meantime they don't get their payrise yet.

A pay rise is not on offer here. It is a pay cut. Have you heard of inflation!

You are going to have to eat your words and much sooner than you think.

[Bezi l]

and the ret of the toads in the offices at toad hall HAVE HAD to accept the 1.5% pay offer.

Now who is being greedy?

[Max Angle]

HAVE HAD to accept the 1.5% pay offer. Well get some union recognition, it's your legal right to be represented by one and you are in the minority within the bmi group if you are not in one.

[keyboard flier]

The only one who have had the pay increase are the managers. Everybody else is has to wait for the unions, even those staff that are not in the union still have to wait for the GMB to agree.

So wat is it that you all want? More pay, better working conditions?
If that's the case go somewhere else if you're not happy.
Where's the mass exodus?
Who has left? Not applied for another post, or even been for an interview, but actually left?
And retirement doesn't count!

[Chalky]

Keyboard,

What you don't seem to understand is that most bmi pilots enjoy the work they do, like and respect the people they work with and don't necessarily want to go and work somewhere else. What they don't enjoy is being s****ed around by management who think they can employ professional aircrew for slave wages.

[Climb Limited]

Keyboard Flier,

You miss the point. This is not about a 1.5% pay rise which let's face it is hardly worth argiung about. This is about an improvement to T&Cs and the right to have some sort of life outside of the cockpit. Why should any of us have to go and look for another job simply because of the company's conscious decision to administer a totally awful rostering policy to the troops. Surely it's better to try and change the system from within - unfortunately formal industrial action is the only language that those with the power seem to understand. I predict a period of some rather unsettled weather ahead.:ok:

[keyboard flier]

Chalky.
The pilots aren't the only ones that are being "s****ed around by the management", most of the workforce are. It's just that the pilots attitude is that they are the most hard done to group in the company.

Climb ltd
Yes it is better to change the system from within, but industrial action will just pi55 the management off even more and at the end of the day you will get probably nowhere apart from getting even more 5hit from the company.
You need to get into a position where you can change the system from within. However your biggest problem will be having to get by the pilot management, some of which got their posts by hard work and some got it by brown nosing.
The choice is yours, but don't go cutting off your nose to spite your face.

[Man Flex]

BMI are not the only airline that are in dispute with their employees over a pay offer.

A sign of the times?

[KAT TOO]

Regional, having rejected the `pay offer` in a secret ballot conducted by the company are now to conduct a telephone ballot of the same employees, in order to get a more democratic outcome! how does that work then.

This will be done next Thursday and Friday from the Aberdeen office.

It will still be secret though and management will not know who voted yes & who voted No............honest

time the crew council got it s**t together and stopped acting like lackies, in fact it time they packed in all together and hand the job over to BALPA still that the next vote that regional pilots face in a couple of weeks, we are voting more often than the Italians at the minute, that democracy for you

[keyboard flier]

Kat too,

How will they have a secret phone vote?
Who's going to conduct it? an independant, or are the management going to do it. Could be fun!!!!!
:uhoh:

I have heard from a very good source that the new allowances system regional have got is not altogether popular. would anyone care to shed any light?

[energiser]

Who has left? Not applied for another post, or even been for an interview, but actually left?

Me :)

Too young to retire at 35, but looking forward to pastures new... ;)

There are 7 other 330 drivers in the Virgin pool, plus a few (5-6) shorthaul drivers. Add those to the successful BA applicants, and various others who have recently gone to Easy, plus a few working their notice going to various other airlines (Cathay etc), and I reckon about 30 pilots in total leaving.

Not a mass exodus by any means, but a significant amount given that the rate of leavers over the last 6 years has been very low?

[Fuzzy112]

Me
Good luck energiser, I hope the grass is really greener on the other side !
keyboard flier
Your record is getting rather worn! Give it a rest for a while !

[keyboard flier]

Fuzzy,
What's your beef? Are you a pilot that is unhappy with his lot, you know the solution to that.
I am entitled to my opinion on what I see is happening and on what people say will be happening. It is my right.
There are many who have left who have come back obviously discovering the grass insn't greener. Even some of those that were laid off are back. Now would that point to the company not actually being a bad place to work?

[Fuzzy112]

I never said you were not entitled to your opinion KF so keep your hair on. Its just that every opinion of yours is the same one and you have expressed it a number of times, so as I said, Your record is getting rather worn! Give it a rest for a while !

[Absorbant With Wings]

Dear All at bmi,

I personally believe that you should be brought into line with BA in terms of Pay & Conditions. After all, the glorious CEO, AR is paid the same as Rod Eddington, £540,000 p.a. What is good for the goose is good for the gander?? Or maybe AR can set an example and bring himself into line with bmi and "Award" himself a 20% pay cut. (Perhaps not when the pension needs that extra top up)

AWW

[keyboard flier]

Fuzzy,
If you read back you will see that not all are the same and they are in reponse to the common theme running through this thread of the disgruntlement of the flying staff. It's just that some moan and groan about going but do nothing about it.
Having a whinge about the company you work for seems to be a national pastime, who doesn't do it, if you have an employee have is perfectly happy with every aspect of their employment, they should be cloned and could be sold for a great deal.

And as for keeping my hair on....... are you prepared to lend me some as I'm as bald as a badgers chuff.:ok: