Would you fly to Saudi Arabia?

[Crash1]

I just wanted to gauge everyones opinion on whether in light of recent events they think it is safe to fly and or nightstop in SA?

I for one am very unsure as to whether I would operate to any destination there.

Will be interesting to hear my managements opinion when I refuse to operate.

here is the summary of the foreign offices advice


We advise British nationals against all but essential travel to Saudi Arabia. On 29 May, terrorists attacked offices and residential compounds in Al Khobar, Eastern Province. A number of people are reported to have been killed. On 22 May a German national was shot dead in Riyadh. On 1 May terrorist attacks in the Red Sea town of Yanbu resulted in at least six deaths, including two British nationals. A truck bomb in Riyadh on 21 April killed five people. In Jeddah on 22 and 23 April five suspected terrorists were killed in exchanges of fire with the Saudi authorities. There were terrorist attacks in Riyadh in May and November 2003. We continue to believe that terrorists remain determined to carry out further attacks in Saudi Arabia, and that these may be in the final stages of preparation.

If you choose to travel to, or remain in, Saudi Arabia you should take all necessary steps to protect your safety and should make sure you have confidence in your individual security arrangements.

You should maintain a high level of vigilance, particularly in public places frequented by foreigners such as hotels, restaurants and shopping malls. You should adopt a low profile and avoid public gatherings, which could lead to disorder.

and here is the link to read the rest of the report

http://www.fco.gov.uk/servlet/Front?pagename=OpenMarket%2FXcelerate%2FShowPage&c=Page&cid=1007029390590&a=KCountryAdvice&aid=1013618387135 (http://http://www.fco.gov.uk/servlet/Front?pagename=OpenMarket%2FXcelerate%2FShowPage&c=Page&cid=1007029390590&a=KCountryAdvice&aid=1013618387135)

safe and happy flying

[fesmokie]

With that report, I for one would flat out refuse the trip to SA. We have a simular problem with our company as we fly freight to Kuwait and Bahrain frequently, as well as other un-secure locations. Several months ago Bahrain was put on a High Alert and we as crewmembers we were not advised and spent two days in a high profile hotel. Needless to say I was not pleased after finding this out later. I don't think any flying job is worth the risk. Some company's(especially freighters) out there could give a rats ass about the security of there employees and are more concerned about the end result and that's $$$$$$$. :mad:

[411A]

Crash 1.

Suspect should you refuse to operate, you may get a 'dont come Monday' letter.
The company will nearly always find someone to replace you.
Airlines have security procedures in place to cater for the problem....usually. :ooh:

[Devils Advocate]

Why don't you contact your life insurance / loss-of-license company and ask them ( in writing ) the following question: "Given the present situation in Saudi Arabia, bearing in mind the current government warnings, if I am required to go there by the airline for whom I work, during which I am attacked by 'terrorists' and maimed / killed, will you pay out in full on the insurance policy which I have with you” ?

For what follows the OED definition of 'essential' = absolutely necessary, indispensable.

The UK Foreign & Commonwealth Office (http://www.fco.gov.uk/servlet/Front?pagename=OpenMarket/Xcelerate/ShowPage&c=Page&cid=1007029390590) currently advises the following:Unless on essential business, the FCO advises against travel to Saudi ArabiaThe Australian Dept. Foreign Affairs & Trade (http://www.dfat.gov.au/zw-cgi/view/Advice/Saudi_Arabia) says: Australians should defer non-essential travel to Saudi Arabia.The USA Department of State (http://www.travel.state.gov/saudi_warning.html) says: The Department of State warns U.S. citizens to defer travel to Saudi Arabia. Private American citizens currently in Saudi Arabia are strongly urged to depart.

[Engineer]

My itinerary is

Get off aeroplane thro arrivals onto hotel transport get off at the hotel stay in hotel room until pick up. Get on hotel transport get off at departures thro crew immigration back on aeroplane.

It is safe but if you want to leave hotel then maybe your safety will decrease exponentially with time outside

Good luck

[CargoOne]

If you read and follow all what UK Foreign Office says, you should probably defer a visit to your favorite pub as well...

[Devils Advocate]

Engineer – empirically, it is NOT safe, i.e. just ask 22 people ( or, more to the point, ask the relatives of those ) who were murdered within the 'secure compound' at al-Khobar on the 29th May.

The Control Risks Group (http://www.crg.com/html/service_level1.php?id=277) has the following to say: Control Risks continues to advise foreign personnel to exercise utmost caution in Saudi Arabia. Companies should proceed on the assumption that the terrorist threat will not diminish in the near future and take steps now to minimise their exposure. Business travel can continue provided that visitors are fully confident in their security arrangements, in particular those governing hotels, offices, work sites and local movement.

If companies are in any doubt about the adequacy of their arrangements, they should consider temporarily relocating dependents and non-essential staff to safer locations, inside or outside Saudi Arabia. As a separate measure, they may also wish to consider offering dependents and non-essential staff the option of withdrawal on a voluntary basis.

[fesmokie]

Oh yes, I did fail to mention the part about Life Insurance. Good Point Devils Advocate!!!!;)

[Comical Ali]

I wouldn't think there is any danger for ordinary aircrew while staying in Saudi Arabia or other Gulf states.
Ali

[GlueBall]

:ouch: Terrorism is a World wide phenomena, but it's small scale compared to major wars; and airline services into Europe did not stop during WWII, nor into Saigon nor into Hanoi during the Vietnam War...

There's been a war of terror in Colombia for the past 30 years (FARC) as there had been in Peru (Shining Path)...what can you do as an airline pilot? Are you really in a position to selectively refuse to fly into certain countries? If not, you might ease your paranoia by not walking near embassies, near government buildings, near tourist spots.... You know, common sense stuff. Get a hotel room far away from the lobby, but on a lower floor from where you could safely jump out of the window.

:{

[ijp]

I was flying in and out of Bagdad, just depends on how much money they (the operator) would be willing to pay! I hope to be operating the Haj in a few months.

[ETOPS]

Crash 1

Just a very minor point, I have never seen Saudi Arabia abbreviated they way you did in your initial post. "The Kingdom" maybe but SA is always South Africa.........

[Ranger One]

Would I fly into Saudi?

Yes. but only if I was trying to get out of somewhere worse... like Iraq!

Fortunately I won't be within 5,000NM of either dump in the forseeable...

R1

[Smeagol]

As a non 'professional pilot' and not being associated with the aviation industry I wonder if I should even post here? (See another thread in this forum)

However... having lived and worked in most of the Gulf States over the last 20 years I feel able to comment intelligently.

Crash

I suspect that your employers definition of "essential" would be that it IS to THEIR business. As a previous poster has said, refusal may result in termination!

Ali

I suspect that there is as much danger to aircrew as anyone else. Devil's Advocate has pointed out that some 22 unfortunate individuals have lost their lives so there IS a risk.



How great the risk TO EACH INDIVIDUAL is an interesting question and I do not have the background to even guess (any Risk Analysis specialists reading?). However, each of us indulges in activities that involve risk every day, from geting out of bed onwards.
Minimising those risks is a sensible course of action.

As an afterthought Crash, would you consider refusing to operate to Madrid because of the fairly recent bombings there?

[Smoketoomuch]

Earning a wage is not considered 'essential' and therefore in the eyes of our [UK] government you should not go. Ultimately however, the choice of whether to visit Saudi is yours and yours alone. Nobody is forcing you to go, not even your employer, they cannot force you to work for them.

All you can do is try to learn as much as you can about the situation, balance that with your financial and family commitments, and then decide whether the risks are worth the rewards -- if not then look for another job.
If you do decide to go, and God forbid anything untoward did happen, then sadly many people would say "Well, he knew the risks". Harsh, but true.
Ultimately everyones answer to this question will be different, and only you can decide.

[Chuck Ellsworth]

Another consideration would be are you a female?

That would skew your risk factor quite a bit.

I have lived in Jeddah for various periods of time and did not really feel threatened personally...........

But that was several years ago.

Would I go there now?

Hmmmm

It depends on what for, if it meant losing my employment with a company and I had no other job avaliable I probably would go, while I was desperately looking for other work.

Chuck

[bugg smasher]

It’s probably time that the airline management types concerned start thinking about canceling night stops in the Kingdom, as I believe BA did at the start of the current war.

My particular concern is Riyadh, where much of the fanaticism that drives these acts of terror originates. That, coupled with the hour-long drive through empty desert to get downtown, makes it worrisome. For anyone who wants to avoid that particular risk, there is the Sahara Hotel at the airport. The joint is a dump, but it’s close enough to the tarmac to provide at least the possibility of a quick getaway.

[alapt]

Well Well Well, I should be in the Kingdom within the next few days or weeks to change the bosses second wife for his first wife!
The crew was actually talking about this and most of us do not feel very comfortable with the prospects! But what can we do?? The pink slips will come that's for sure if we do decide to do something. So the decision is already made due to the bad habits I have, feed the family, pay the rent etc.....At 8:33 AM, (Wed) just now Reuters just announced a shoot out in Riyadh after "expats" were shot at........
It might just be a "tech" stop if we can put the pressure on!
Good luck to all

[Paterbrat]

Would have to admit that after a long time residency in the Kingdom I will be slightly more wary than I have ever felt before when I go back this week. There are a lot of well intentioned and good people there but it only takes a few fruitcakes to spoil ones day, and they unfortunately are amongst us wherever we live. Some parts of the Kingdom could be considered higher risk areas, Gassim and Madina will certainly be on my do not visit list. And Dahran/Dammam and Riyadh probably more heads-up than Jeddah.

[Psittacine]

In regard to Devils A point on insurance: my life insurance company replied to the same question that unless war had been declared in the country as a pilot I would still be covered no matter what was happening on the streets or what government alerts were current. I proceeded to my Jeddah base and luckily saw no violence for the 2 month stint. One further point to help allay your fears, lightening follows it's rule as Bali and Madrid seem to demonstrate.

[apaddyinuk]

Tough one...
I was operating a number of relief flights out of Basra this time last year, mind you, the area was a lot less volatile as it is now!
But I also didnt get paid anymore to be there so fools on me!
:\

[Captain Mercurius]

Gentleman, Ladies,


I could not resist in replying to this interesting thread.

As other several pilots, I also did my share working in a Middle East country, and I want to state that always they treaded me with respect and kindness.

I never felt threatened or in danger (except when driving) anytime.

It seems that nowadays, the time some people spend in the road going to hotel and barricading themselves inside the room they believe that they are safe, and they are acting cleverly.

Unfortunately, reality proves that things are different, and the kind of hardware existent, can go trough walls, and windows, without mention a car.

TV and papers are full of pictures proving that.

I wonder why the region did not have these kinds of violent events, five or six years before; and I believe this is food for thought.


Safe Flying to all.


Mercurius

[M.Mouse]

As other several pilots, I also did my share working in a Middle East country, and I want to state that always they treaded me with respect and kindness.

With my experience in the Middle East, Northern Ireland, Africa, etc., it is a truism to say that 99% of the people you meet are decent honest people.

The evil people are in a minority but are often very dangerous.

[answer=42]

Not a flyer but have been to places with broadly comparable security situations.

The key phrase in the FCO advice that Crash1 quotes is:

make sure you have confidence in your individual security arrangements.
ie you need to be informed and to evaluate the information you have concerning your situation and actions both in the air and on the ground.

Your airlines should be giving you a security briefing and/or you should have a local contact in whom you can have reasonable confidence. If you do not receive a briefing and do not have a good contact, this is an indication that your carrier has not evaluated the risks.

If they then fire you on refusal to fly, you could have a good case in law. Even if not, this is a relatively benign type of fire.

[steamchicken]

I think it should also be remembered that danger doesn't necessarily come from people aiming for you! Terrorist/rebel activity directed at other targets could ruin your day, as could mob action. I wouldn't buy any real estate in Saudi at the moment!

[Paterbrat]

I believe as a non citizen you probably couldn't anyway.

[soddim]

If I had to return to Saudi, Allah forbid, I would ensure that I was not an easy target - no regular routine or company-booked hotel and not identifyable as a Brit or American airline employee.

However, no company offers enough money to persuade me to go.

[Ignition Override]

Just a note of irony here.

Two of our pilots were walking back to their hotel, very close to DCA. One guy noticed another guy walking towards him. As the pilot gradually curved away from the other guy's path, the stranger still headed towards him. The pilot (both were in their street clothes) was at arm's length and luckily saw the attacker raise a pistol from under his coat-but the pilot was very quick and used his hand to knock the gun down. The pistol fired and the bullet went into his foot-the pilot apparently recovered to flying status. The pilot was also the victim of terrorism by a home-grown 'bro". But not enough blood to make "good copy".

The attacker was a typical low-life gang member (gangsta) who planned to be "initiated", after he had shot a stranger in the stomach. This was a few years ago, about a mile from the city airport in the US capitol!

They achieved their results during the Spanish election, with just one terrible attack. It reminds me vaguely of the Munich Agreement of 1938, and quite a few politicians who prefered to be intimidated (or isolationist). Let the terrorists dictate to all of us how to live, what to eat, how to, ehhh--- vote.

And no kidding about any of this. We were in New York City on September 11, 2002, went to Germany last summer, and will travel a bit in southern England this summer-just got back.:)

[RoyHudd]

Having visited and worked in the Saudi Arabian royal dictatorship, I feel qualified to add a few words.

This year's Hajj was highlighted by the frequent presence of very drunk and garrulous young local men at breakfast in our Jeddah hotel, in the company of Russian/East European women of a certain profession. And yet the nation has the audacity to preach abstinence and jail Westerners for alcohol crimes.

Oft times, us flight crews were abused by passing motorists on the Corniche, who liked to yell "F... off, American B......s" at us. And we were delivering their pilgrims to their place of worship, safely and politely. Be sure, no reaction to their abuse was the only policy, painful though it felt.

I could continue, but hope my examples are evidence of a misfit country which poses great risks to civilized folks the world over.

I won't be going back to this dreadful place to work and fly, and many colleagues feel the same way.

[Robert Vesco]

This (http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0747520402/qid=1086429769/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_10_1/026-2035442-9118813) book revolves around the history of Saudi Arabia and the corruption of the royal family. According the author, Saudi Arabia is a fundementalist ticking timebomb and he believes that (just like during the Sjah of Iran era) the US/CIA can not keep this family in power forever.

Once the problems in Saudi Arabia get bigger and the situation grows out of hand, aviation can brace itself for the worst crisis in it's history, dwarfing the 1970's oilcrisis and the fallout of the Iraqi invasion of Kuwait in 1990.

I wonder how many solar panels it will take to power an A380? :uhoh:

[Chuck Ellsworth]

Another slant on this subject.

In 1999 I took my wife on a delivery flight out of J-Berg to North America via Europe and the north Atlantic route.

Jeddah was a planned fuel stop and my wife had a visa as a crew member.

We had an engine problem just after take off resulting in a return to Jeddah.

We spent five days in Jeddah and my wife has a whole new outlook on different cultures, would she return? Never.

I myself returned on two different occasions for about a month each.

Would I go back?

Not since the the area has become so unstable since 911.

But like everywhere else on earth there are good and bad, its the evil ones that I worry about.

Chuck

[akerosid]

The BBC (among others) is reporting that Al Qaeda has just issued a threat to "Western and American" airlines operating in Saudi Arabia. They are also issuing threats against westerners in Saudi, as well as compound guards. Looks like they're ratcheting up the tension level a bit more.

Since there are no US carriers, the remaining European carriers are BA, Lufthansa, Swiss, KLM and Turkish. Not sure if they're including airlines of moderate Arab and Asian countries (e.g. Emirates, Kuwait Airways etc.) as moderate. Something tells me they won't discriminate.

How effective they will be in this is anyone's guess, but it does of course raise more concerns about safety in Saudi.

[Panama Jack]

These idiots are starting to get REALLY ANNOYING!!! :mad:

Western Airliners May Be al-Qaida Target (http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20040607/ap_on_re_mi_ea/al_qaida_airline_threat)

[HE SLAM!]

Almost half of all Saudis said in a poll conducted last year that they have a favorable view of Osama bin Laden's sermons and rhetoric, but fewer than 5 percent thought it was a good idea for bin Laden to rule the Arabian Peninsula.

The poll involved interviews with more than 15,000 Saudis and was overseen by Nawaf Obaid, a Saudi national security consultant.

It was conducted between August and November 2003, after simultaneous suicide attacks in May 2003 when 36 people were killed in Riyadh.

:\ :\ ....still having doubt about if it's time to go????:uhoh:

[Crash1]

Thanks to evryone for all their replies. It seems to have proved a more thought provoking subject than I first thought.

A couple of points:

Engineer, you said that going straight to the hotel was probably alright. However those who have recently been shot at whilst parked at traffic lights might disagree.

Comical Ali, your opinion that ordinary flight crew should be ok, I could have agreed with this until the statement made above that declares war (in a manner of speaking) on all things western, including transportation.

[bluesafrica]

I think that things are getting even worse in future. Sure some of the comments made are correct but it still is everyone´s own butt in the fire.
Unfortunately none of us are able to forecast what will happen next week or so. I would opt to stay out time being...
Blues

[thegirth]

BA will not be nightstopping their crews in Riyhad or Jeddah from today until further notice.

Flights will still operate but crews to slip in Kuwait.

Seems like a smart move.

[Pilocol]

My company is traying to get another pilot (For more than 3 months) to fly with me .... but so far no luck ... wonder why???
And guess ... would I stay longer????
Been here for more than 3 years now and I'm seriously considering other jobs in other countries ...
Most of the postings are correct, it is very close to hell.... specially in Summer ...:) The radical are taking over and there is nobody that can do a D@#* thing about it.
No more trips to downtown, no more trips to the Zuk, no more walking around even in big Supermarkets, the looks you get are terrifying...
Guy we will see the fall of the Kingdom pretty soon ...
Please Keep it safe.... Do your best not to come.... and to help a Ppruner friend get the H@$#% out of here ...:sad:

[4HolerPoler]

Gotta give some sense of life here in Saudi - sure folk are being killed - the journo this week and then the American followed into his own villa & blown away - tragic and very sad; unnecessary and to what end? Sure it's creating huge uncertainty among mainly the expat community but also the locals.

But terrifying looks in shops :E - that's BS. Call me mad but I'm still down at the souk a few times a week & have had no hassles. Schools out & there are many kids who aren't coming back but if it wasn't for what I read in the paper or see on the TV I wouldn't know about it. Please, I'm not suggesting that my viewpoint is a global one but life is the same for me as it was; apart from what is obviously going on. If I feel like a shwarama I go out & buy one. If I need a software I go to the souk, if I feel like Turkish tonight I hit my favorite Turkish eatery.

Things are changing, sure. But it hasn't affected me. Yet.

4HP

[Engineer]

Interesting is LA (http://www.lapdonline.org/general_information/crime_statistics/2004_crime_summary.htm) safer than Riyadh

[RoyHudd]

Yup, statistically Los Angeles is not so "safe" as Riyadh. And on the same basis, Torquay is even "safer" than Riyadh. Chalk and Cheese, mate.

[alexban]

just heard on the news: american aeronautical engineer kidnaped in Saudi Arabia,another one killed.It seems it's the first american kidnaped here.Things are getting worse,I guess will soon slip out of control.No place to be right now.Even on transit.
4holerpoler:i suggest you forget about your shawarma,or the souk.I'll do that,if I were there.

[Paterbrat]

Shawermers tasted pretty good after being away for a while but yes the atmosphere in town has changed. Friends who have been here for years are concerned and even other non local arabs are getting a little edgey. The sad part is all my local friends are worried for me and that bothered me a bit. Its a real shame but then there are the fruitcakes and odballs in a lot of other places as well. I always felt decidedly uneasy in Lagos having had an exciting start in that town once.
Still heading on down to Africa now so perhaps a good time to be out of town.

[Engineer]

RH

Do many people fly to Torquay come to think of it where is Torquay :D

As for me off to RUH tonight in town for a night stop will not be venturing out of the hotel. Apart from going to the disco :cool:

Like must things paranoia can take control if you let it.

[mutt]

I'm delighted to see that BA have decided not to night stop in the Kingdom, its an extremely sensible decision. However, I'm interested in knowing they they picked Kuwait this time and not Larnaca, any ideas?

For the first time in my memory, the UK Foreign Office are sending lower level diplomats and their families home from the kingdom.

I would strongly suggest that any other airline crews approach their own management to remove night stops.

Mutt :(

[Min Drag]

This in today's Telegraph may help:

"BA said it was eliminating its eight direct flights per week from London to Riyadh and Jeddah and re-routing them via Kuwait City. Staff would spend the night in Kuwait to avoid the journey from a Saudi airport to a hotel.

Fresh crews would board aircraft in Kuwait for the short flight to Saudi Arabia, where they will stop briefly before returning to London on the carrier's direct flights from Riyadh and Jeddah."


Looks like things are happening pretty fast out there, I left Riyadh 3 years ago when the bombings started and the anti-Western feeling was just gaining momentum and becoming noticeable - dread to think what it's like now.

4HP - I'm sure life was quite normal for all of the Yanks in the papers right now - up to the moment they were gunned down!!

MD

[Old Smokey]

Regretably, Crash 1, flying to, transiting in, and departing from "Risky" locations are part and parcel of our profession. Sadly, for a large number of our colleagues, 'War Zones R Us'.

There always have been, and always will be 'Hot Spots' around the globe, and every aviator knows that sooner or later he/she will have to venture there, it's part of the job.

I live in a stable country, and work for a stable international airline but operate to danger areas such as Saudi Arabia, Bali, New York, Madrid et al.....If my company ceased operations to such danger areas, we might as well all go home.

If you have sufficient personal industrial insulation to stand your ground and refuse to operate to Saudie Arabia, you would, by your own evaluation of the risks there, be sending other substitute crews to their doom. Can you live with that?

Perhaps a solution may be to institute a voulenteer system for those crews who would willingly go to coutries categorised by the British Foreign Office as unsafe - for suitable remuneration of course!

Might I suggest that since 9/11 the cockpit of an aeroplane may be a more dangerous location than the comparative safety of your hotel room in Saudie Arabia.

If you can't stand the heat - get out of the kitchen!

[bugg smasher]

Wise words, Old Smokey, although I doubt very much that most aircrew have the ‘sufficient personal industrial insulation’ to refuse rosters allocated to them by an uncompromising management. I suspect many aircrew will simply ‘go sick’.

I think many of us have operated in the proximity of hot zones before, the major hazard has been that of the stray bullet. The difference with this one, however, is that the passports we carry now automatically award us combatant status in the eyes of the insurgents.

I sincerely hope that it does not take a catastrophic hull loss to persuade management that this time, all necessary precautions must be taken, immediately and aggressively. Collective heads in the desert sand will only lead to disaster.

A wise first step, as BA has done, should be the cancellation of Kingdom night stops.

[Stratocaster]

I wonder how many EU/US operators will line up their airliners at the Hajj Terminal in JED next year...
:cool:

[Howlowcanugo]

Sure enough, Air Atlanta will be there.
They could care less about the crews.
Spinger telling lies aleady about the Hajjah.

[LightTwin Driver]

They could care less about the crews.


They might well then !!

[matching]

I for one won’t have to go there any more I have just taken a job with EUjet at Shannon, based in Kent but working with some of my old TransAer friends.

I was at Shannon recently and they are rely nice and building a team in advance of introducing scheduled services later this year.

They have a great office and lots of vacancies for experienced office based people

[RoyHudd]

TransAer...now there was an airline..mind you they operated in and out of some dodgy places so. When will they be flying A320's again?

[matching]

They have three senior captains in the office all with Airbus experience! I can’t see the F100 having a long life: although it is a fine aircraft and probably the best available for building the business:

[Sonic Zepplin]

Spreading like wild fire in this part of the world.

Saudi is only the begining. Who's next Quatar, UAE? This area is a hot bed of activity that will keep the professionals away in droves.

The Saudi's will be looking for a lot of qualified individuals very shortly, as most of the 60,000 or so are going to leave.

Good luck to all.
:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: terorrist

[Max Angle]

Might I suggest that since 9/11 the cockpit of an aeroplane may be a more dangerous location than the comparative safety of your hotel room in Saudie Arabia. It's getting to and from your Hotel room thats the problem I think. My flightdeck or nightstopping in Jeddah?, I know where I would feel safer right now.

[Engineer]

Max Angle

since the threat is now to target Western airlines then maybe the cockpit on takeoff, landing or approach is not as safe as your hotel room

[Yo767]

As professional as I can usually be, let me tell you that the only problem that could have grounded my aircraft in RUH this afternoon would have been a double flameout while taxiing.

Now enjoying a cold Carlsberg in AUH after a very quick turn in the ****hole

Yoyo Disco

[mutt]

Verbal reports this evening from people who tried to make reservations on BA revealed that BA has stopped services to Saudi Arabia until further notice.



Mutt.

[Mark Lewis]

BA are re-routing outbound flights to Saudi via Kuwait for crew changes.

ba.com still accepting reservations...

[Slasher]

Month ago we we ofered a lucrative 1 month charter to and intra Sand pit.

Knocked it back citing that pilots dont want there heads cut off by the locals.

Boring bloodey backward ****hole of a place anyway. :hmm:

[Charlie_Fox]

I've just come back from 6 nights in Jeddah. I walked around the town for hours. I didn't feel any hostility; nobody yelled abuse at me; I wasn't harassed in any way. Most Saudis are apologetic about the extremists. With some reasonable precautions e.g. avoiding places associated with the USA such as McDonalds / Hilton / Sheraton you'll be perfectly safe. Who said 'the only thing we have to fear is fear itself"?

[6000PIC]

Charlie Fox , you either must be among the most daring of expats or the most foolish to wander around Jeddah in todays climate of anti - Western feelings in the Kingdom. There is such a thing as asking for trouble , and that`s what you are doing.... quick question , are you white ?
I`ve got a lot to say about the Kingdom and none of it is good. They`ve earned it by their racist , arrogant , selfish , bury - their - head in - the sand attitude. I can`t wait for the house of Saud to implode.
Name another country in the world named from a dictatorial " family "
The world will see this scourge of mankind evaporate forever , just as the Nazis did.....`cept these guys are worse , have more $$ , are more evil , and well instead of just hating the Jews , these guys hate everyone , you silly infidel.

[OFBSLF]

I can`t wait for the house of Saud to implode. I, too, have no love for the house of Saud. But if they do implode, the impact on the world economy could be horrific.

[Kato747]

What in Hades is BA thinking???? KU is just as bad as Saudi Arabia, just hasn't been hit yet!

With Crown Prince Abdullah giving the "anii" 30 days to give themselves up and return to the true teachings of Moe (PBUH) we can foresee some more activity south of Baghdad.

I "escaped" KU mid-2002, but not before some 17yr old Kuwaiti got into Fintas Towers with 7kg of Semtex and some AAA batteries. Luckilly, one of the Bangla cleaners saw him fiddling around the plant room and called his sisters boyfreind, a KU cop.

IJP, did you hear any more about his "future".?

[Smoketoomuch]

The whole area is going to hell. Iran is well on the way to building nukes, which no way in a million years will Israel allow, expect an attack within six months, followed by massive outrage across the Muslim world. Saudi will descend into chaos and the neighbouring states will probably erupt too. I suspect the only one that might retain 'some' sort of stability will be (ironically) Iraq. Prepare yourself for very "interesting" times ahead.