View Full Version : GB Pilots Reject Pay Offer

Miss Inform
30th May 2004, 11:55
I hear that GB Airways pilots have rejected the company's pay offer - apparently, a recent ballot returned 95% of pilots against the deal.

GB management appear to be refusing to honour an agreement whereby certain elements of the package are matched to a number of similar "tracked" airlines.

There also appear to be several other areas of the operation contributing to widespread dissatisfaction amongst the pilots.

It seems that both the MD (ex-BA) & the DFO (ex-Midland) are seeking a confrontation with their pilots.

Anyone know any more?

30th May 2004, 17:12
Miss Inform, your post sums up the current situation acurately.

Not much more to say really but the next few weeks should be very interesting.

31st May 2004, 11:05
The management are trying to renegue on the Tracker Agreement, so it's no great surprise that the vast majority of the BALPA members in the pilot workforce rejected the current offer. It seems they want to work us harder and harder for less and less. Morale among the pilots is lower than I've ever known it.:(

1st Jun 2004, 09:20
Quite a number of us, both aircrew and groundstaff, have either 'left' or been 'shown the door' because of the DFO (and who knows about the MD). Perhaps the DFO has more of his ex BMI buddies trying to find a way in !!!! Who knows.

Good luck to all the GB pilot community - you're a far better bunch than those two like to admit. Far more loyal to each other, and dare I say it - to previous Management, than these two are to you.

1st Jun 2004, 17:23
Thanks SFG - kind words. You're right, GB pilots do seem to be pretty loyal to eachother (probably because of the fairly small size of the company). Hopefully this loyalty will lead to us mounting a strong, cohesive challenge to the Management over the current pay offer. We have some excellent chaps on the BALPA CC who put an enormous amount of time and effort into fighting our corner and I think we owe them our 100% support.

2nd Jun 2004, 10:18
The problem is quite simple. The pilots and the company have an established agreement to have 'tracker' (ie the average of 6 similar airlines) terms of service. This includes pay, pension, allowances etc. This is a very good and very fair system for the company and for individuals.
Each year there does not need to be any negotiation - it should simply be a mathematical exercise to collate the info from the other companies to establish the tracker average to be paid.

The company has readily agreed to 2.8% tracker increase in basic pay but baulked at paying the tracker 13.5% for pensions (against last years 10% pension contribution).

It's either tracker or it's not. There isn't supposed to be a negotiated settlement - the negotiation was done a number of years ago. The result - a stand-off. Damaging for the pilots and damaging for the company.

Sadly Cynical
2nd Jun 2004, 11:32
GB is facing stiff competition from all areas of the industry. Although it has the protective blanket of the BA franchise it is quite rightly looking at ways combat this threat. Sadly the measures GB are taking leave the company without any positive direction. The management do not know if it is using a Low Cost, Charter or Conventional model. As such the company is directionless. What is known is that to implement these changes the company needs the goodwill of the pilot workforce. So how does the management seek this goodwill? It reneges on the Tracker agreement.

The Tracker agreement demanded that the Company Pension contribution went up significantly and this was pointed out to the Company. What the CC put to the Company should not even be seen as a pay claim, but simply a continuation of what was agreed 3 years ago. In fact, if the pilot workforce wished to follow the Tracker to the letter, this increased Pension contribution should be backdated!

The pilot workforce was told that if this Pension increase was to be agreed, then it would have to become more productive. This was a real slap in the face for all GB pilots as we already work more hours than any other Airline included in the Tracker agreement. All pilots who work for GB know that any inefficiency is in the Rostering Department.

So where do we stand at the moment? The MD and DOH have succeeded in uniting the pilots. There is even co-operation between BALPA and the IPA. We have achieved a 95 percent NO vote to the pay offer. We are not a militant bunch, but we now feel that we are a strong group of pilots with a CC that has the proven backing of its members.

If I were the Chairman of the Bland Group, I would be having a serious chat with Mr Vegas and Slippery.

2nd Jun 2004, 11:47
This is just a contuing saga of Slippery and Johnny Vegas trying to wreck the company before they leave the company soon with their fat pay-offs.

Just another example of Slippery's "Management" (if you can call it that) style.... lies, lies, and more lies. It was the reason he was sacked out of British Midland and hopefully our chairman will be alerted sooner rather than later of the bullsheet he is being fed by these two incompetents.

Slippery's comments that our Chairman "should take up farming" should warrant his expeditious and necessary departure from GB.

2nd Jun 2004, 12:32
Whilst a skirmish over pay and conditions is possibly justified, there is a more serious issue looming for BA Franchisees, especially now BA Shorthaul is profitable: what happens at the next franchise renewal.

These appear to be the possible scenarios:


If the franchise is renewed are the franchises just left doing the same things they are now?

Is more of the same enough?

Will they be allowed to grow the business beyond the present size?

If they cannot grow the business and if they are struggling now, how will they compete with the expanding no frills airlines?


New Franchise with another major carrier.

I cannot help but think that any 'major' airline will have industrial relations issues if a new bunch of pilots turned up and started operating in that airlines colours.

For example would Virgin co-pilots be happy to see Virgin flights captained by less senior people, I think not. I suspect most major european airlines already have SCOPE agreements.

'Go-it alone': If the franchise is not renewed do the franchise airlines have the clout to muscle in on the no-frills airlines in terms of sales and marketing etc. Is this what Duo tried to do?

In short the real question for GB pilots is 'what's the plan Johnny?' Can you afford to hang around and find out? Who cares the most and has most to loose: The Shareholders, the Directors or you?

Miss Inform
2nd Jun 2004, 16:02
My thanks to everyone who has contributed so far...

Sadly, your contributions confirm the suspicion that GB is a very troubled company at present, a situation which is not being helped by the actions/attitude of the current management.

Clearly, the pensions issue is one which has been brewing for some time & the pilots have thus far been generous enough to forego their due payments.

The management's response, far from rewarding the pilots for their generosity & patience, see fit to continue to deny them what is due to them & continue to test the limits of their goodwill & co-operation.

I believe that the GB management have fatally underestimated the strength of feeling amongst the pilots, due to the following:-

I understand that, apart from the pay offer, the pilots are continually being provoked in such areas as questionable rostering & flight scheduling practices, which have implications in such areas as duty/rest periods & the use of discretion, fuel calculations & punctuality etc. & I continue to be amazed why the Regulators allow such questionable practices to continue.

In the long term, it would seem that GB's future is in some doubt, with many people making individual or collective "escape" plans.

In the short term, it remains to be seen how the GB management will respond to the rejection of the pay offer- will they see the light & give the pilots their due reward, or will they test them further by forcing a ballot for industrial action?

Good luck , guys, I think you're gonna need it!

3rd Jun 2004, 11:42
Sadly Cynical you say....... "All pilots who work for GB know that any inefficiency is in the Rostering Department."

You may notice from my profile that I am a Crew Scheduler. I am also ex GB (work it out !!!). Perhaps you should investigate fully before you make statements such as above. You probably don't even know where the Rostering department is. As I said in my previous post - I think you guys/girls at GB are a great bunch but perhaps you should consider that the reason for this 'so called' bad rostering is because the Rostering department never ever, in GB at least, have the right number of crewmembers to do the job. Remember that the rostering staff are only the messengers, they don't invent the flight schedule or recruit the crews to operate it.

Miss Inform your second posting says........."I understand that, apart from the pay offer, the pilots are continually being provoked in such areas as questionable rostering & flight scheduling practices..................."

As I have said to Sadly Cynical - don't shoot the messenger (Rostering) your complaints should be aimed at the senior management not the troops at the frontline.

For once could the Rostering department be left out of gripes, valid or not, about pay and conditions, remember those Conditions and Scheduling rules are yours through your union they are not designed by the Crewing department and, in fact, the Crewing department hardly ever has any input until those rules are agreed with company management.

Anyway, enough for now just keep up the fight against the Slippery one. You'll be at the company longer than he will. thankfully.

Sadly Cynical
3rd Jun 2004, 14:57
This thread is about the rejection of the pay offer. I mentioned the inefficiency of the Rostering Department simply because the implication by our management is that lack of productivity is down to the Flight Crew. I mentioned it as a fact, without exploring the reasons why. Undoubtedly they have to deal with the pressures of poor Commercial Planning and the quite obvious problem of under crewing. However, I am sure most pilots at GB believe the rostering could be better despite this. It is a fact that there are some very questionable rostering practices going on.

As I have already said, this thread is about the rejection of the GB pay offer, so let us not divert it. What is important is that the GB pilot workforce have given their backing to the CC and sent a clear message to the management. We must all thank Slippery for giving us the opportunity to display this degree of unity.

Miss Inform
4th Jun 2004, 15:18
Meeting between GB management & BALPA scheduled for Tuesday 8 June.

Watch this space...