Jump pilot tips

[Paul Alfred]

Hi guys/ ladies,

I would like some hints on how to be a good jump pilot as I may be getting some extra hours with a respectful company.

Please...no smart arse up and down, round and round comments.

Cheers for your time in responding.

PA.:ok:

[aerocom]

Paul

Good to see you have the chance of some hours. A few tips for you.

Dont be pushed into flying IMC to do a drop unless you and aircraft are endorsed, remember your licence was hard work to obtain.
Carry a good knife.
Do a jump or learn how to use the chute well.
If you are driving a 207 or sim dont let them hang around at the back to long.
If driving a 182 or sim and they wont let go relase the park brake and hit the power and they will normally go.
Get a spare set of a/c keys as some loopies think its a good joke with a new driver to pull the keys out and jump while you do a forced landing.
If they hook up your are pretty well had it so exit stage right.
Good luck and have fun.

[ROB-x38]

Get a spare set of a/c keys as some loopies think its a good joke with a new driver to pull the keys out and jump while you do a forced landing.

CRIKEY!! :uhoh: Has this happened to you aerocom? Anyone else experienced it??

[Paul Alfred]

Thanks for the response aerocom.

It may seem kind of strange asking the boss for my own set of keys but according to your story, he may understand why?

Cheers,

PA

[rearwhelsteer888]

Don't ever forget you are in command of all the decisions about when or weather you go,dont think that some operator who has nothing to loose is going to tell you or pressure you into anything,and if the cloud is broken they will say, oh we can go ,its crap ,even a good 206 with 6 meat bombs in it climds above 5 thousand at about 250 ft per min.Do not fly in cloud.after all the work we've put in dont let some **** screw it up for you.You'll see in probably a years time you will not have to worry about mixing with the real BOTTOM end of the industry to get ahead.Use them just like they are using you..Good luck you'll need some patience.RWS888:E

[john_tullamarine]

30 years or so since I last flew jump planes ... unless the jump fraternity has changed since then, they are an interesting and jovial mob ... good fun, needs to be disciplined flying and, if you try to do a good job in maximising reasonable profit for the operator, good training for a pilot in aircraft operation.

[Living End]

well most things seemed to be covered here. I must say sticking up for yourself and your choices and being confident in your descions (if it feels wrong, it genrally is) is very important in gaining there initial trust, confidence and respect in you. Once you have that its a breeze.
Once you have them onside, definately do a jump or two, not only will you have a ball but it will break down the whole pilot jumper barrier....

A couple of other poiinters that pulled me through were

1. Always shout the bar after doing something major for the first time (1st jump etc)

2. I lernt to pack parachutes... good extra money ( sometimes earnt more than flying) and something to do between loads.

Good luck and blue skies ....

[Ang737]

Hi Paul

Good to see the hours ticking over for you. I fly meatbombs at the moment and I must say its some of the most enjoyable flying you will do. I have attached a link to the jump pilots guide released by Al McVinish through the Australian Parachute Federation. Also there is a good site called Diver Driver (http://www.diverdriver.com) which details the correct way to handle various aircraft types.

Which DZ are you dropping at.

APF Jump Pilot Guide (http://www.apf.asn.au/apf_admin/downloads/jump_pilot2003.pdf)


Cheers

Ang ;)

[Paul Alfred]

Some great replies guys. Thank you so much. I just learnt that the potential (not guranteed yet) jump job had an accident yesterday. The Sunday Mail reported the 206 nose dived at the end of the runway after the pilot aborted take off.

Its great to see the company owner supporting the pilots decision in this case especially since its the first minor incident in 27 years - everyone was ok and the pilot was ambo trained so he got everyone out and checked them over.

The pilot wasnt confident with how the plane was handling prior to take off. Maybe someone may have time to track down the story for us - I have to get back to the real job now.

Cheers again folks.

PA:D

[Keg]

Paul, I had a couple of the guys joke about nicking off with the keys. I always responded without a smile that they had better free fall hard because I'd be doing my damndest to ram them on the way down if they did. They normally laughed until they worked that I wasn't and therefore wasn't kidding! :E

[0tter1]

Havent had anyone pinch my keys, but have heard stories..

One thing I havent really seen mentioned is fuel.. Some operators will try to tell you how much fuel to take. just remember, if you run out of fuel and have to land in a paddock the operator is not going to take the blame.. You take as much fuel as you think you need.. then maybe some more.. haha

For example in the 206, I use to carry at least 40-50L in the left and wouldnt touch it. And use the Right tank for loads. That way if you should be caught out you always have some up your sleeve.
Despite what some people might say, I dont think it is necessary to do a weight balance before each and every sorty. However familirise yourself with the weight and balance for the aircraft.

But mainly enjoy it, can be fun.. Dont get pushed into doing anything you dont feel comfortable doing.
Make sure at the end of the day you take the time to have a beer with the others, some good stories and not all jumpers are d@#$heads..

[ginjockey]

I would advise you to steer clear of all the usual drop zone politics and club committee back biting. This goes on at many clubs and should be left for the jumpers to enjoy. Concentrate on flying safe and accurate loads, ask advice when you have a concern and feel your way into it slowly. Many jumpers regard pilots as easy to replace but the smarter jumpers know the value of a reliable and savvy jump pilot. Be prepared to hear all sorts of random weird and obviously wrong advice as well as helpful tips from the better jumpers. I also suggest that you discipline yourself to avoid joining in with their occasional adrelaine (and other stimulant) soaked activities and fly safe regular loads. Be professional and safe but not uptight and they will love you. Most of all, enjoy yourself and you will learn lots about what light aeroplanes can actually do when treated right. You will certainly be a better pilot for the experience.

cheers :ok:

[amos2]

Well, I'm obviously a bit out of touch!...

In my day , flying jump seat was sitting in the cockpit in whatever seat was available and observing what the crew did!

Are you guys with it here? Or do you come from a strange planet?

Yeah!..I think you do!

[Hugh Jarse]

Jeez Amos, If I didn't know differently I'd swear you were a cadet.:}
Sorry Keg, the Devil made me do it:E
____________________________
It's better to die on your feet than to live on your knees:ok:

[Keg]

Nah Hugh, fair call! ;) Truth be known I've seen a few things over the last couple of years (both here and 'elsewhere') that explains what everyone was complaining about with respect to cadets four or five years ago when I first logged onto PPRUNE! :eek: :E

[Paul Alfred]

Thanks ginjockey, I appreciate your response.

amos2......I'm not sure where you are coming. We are talking about sky diving pilots..not the jump seat of an aircraft.

Maybe I just missed the joke...who knows!!!

I've just started a new thred on bird scaring advice and stories if any of you guys have done that!

PA:D

[Willie Nelson]

Another thing you can do is get the winds for them on the way up. Work out your TAS, plug it into the GPS, read off the winds and let them know for several different levels.

They will love you for it especially if you start noticing a consistent change in direction.

Don't forget to make it VERY clear when you are not cleared to jump due either traffic or ATC clearance.

The advice about carrying a nice sharp knife is sound. Around 2 years ago or so a young female pilot was put in the position of having to cut a Tandem free from her aircraft which got caught up and were unable to free themselves. All ended well, however it could have become very ugly indeed were they to stuck to the aircraft (especially given the limited reserves you are often required to take)

Jump flying if done correctly, can be a great way to reinforce and practice what you were trained to do without the pressure of an instructor watching you. Don't bother spending too much time in the caper though as you are unlikely to get paid enough, progress on to twins or gain the charter experience that you will no doubt need on your way to bigger any shinier aircraft.

Have fun.

[Ibol]

G'day Paul,

I had the jokers take my keys and leave.

Funny men! Very funny. I laughed lots and lots and lots. NOT!

The lucky thing for me, it being an ageing 182, was that he didn't (in his haste) actually turn the mags to 'off'. He just pulled the keys directly out with the mags in 'both' and I was able to conduct a normal descent.

It just happened I'd been offered a job at a neighbouring flying school and was planning to resign that weekend.. so when I landed I calmly strolled up and quit and informed the chief jump instructor I would be contacting the police regarding attempted murder. ( a little over the top I know - but considering what the consequences could have been..)

The jumper in question was banned from the club.
I wanted to knock his block off but that would have made me the bad person.

Turns out all the other jumpers were horrified at his actions and were quite pleased to see him gone.

99% of them are good fellas/ladies.
cheers Ibol

[ginjockey]

The stealing the of keys deal was always a chance among some of the more hard core and acid trippin' skydiver types. I actually made a casual mention over the bar that if it ever happened to me and I found myself trolling along without a functioning engine that I would simply point the old bird out towards the deserted area south of the field and jump out myself (wearing a jump pilot rig of course). That would leave me with a good long skydive to talk about and the bonus would be that the club would be without a jump aircraft forever more. Naturally the insurance company would receive a full report from me informing them of the events leading up to the crash. In all honesty, there was no way I would ever risk trying to force land a crapped out old cessna when I could have a comfy parachute ride back to earth.
Never heard any further mention of that trick for some reason.

cheers

Gin

[cjam]

geees Gin,
I would much rather land the plane than trust the pilots rig I had....or any other pilots rig for that matter. They are only going to pull the keys when you're at height surely, you'd probably have ten minutes to think about the approach!

[captmicka]

get this. a mate of mine has just relocated to another state. given false information about the jump a/c by the owner. gets there, and VSI U/S, flap indicator U/S, fuel gauge U/S, oil guages shonky U/S. the owner has only got a ppl(no offence to any ppl, my father has held one for many, many years), yet he knows everything of course. the first check flight, mate asks wat alt would u like to level off at, gets to toc then the owner turns the xpndr to off and continues to climb. bl00dy nuts. now he wants my mate to do night ops in an a/c that isnt even servicable by day.
granted there some great operators out there. but this owner knows wat hes doing. if the sh@t hits the fan, the old PIC takes the blame.
moral of the story(true story, only happen less than two days ago), never let anyone tell u wat to do , your in command. plus youve paid or your parents have paid a cr@p load for your liscence and youve studied your proverbial backside off to get this far, you dont need some obnoxious money hungry person telling u wat to do.

cheers cheers

[cjam]

That info on getting the winds is good.
I never worried about entering it into the gps though, I just got TAS using the old 2% per 1000ft rule and compared that to the groundspeed.
If there is a lot of wind, ie 15kts on the ground the jumpers appreciate getting an accurate 1000ft wind which helps a lot with their spot, this often requires an early turn into the wind direction, if that is possible then do it, much less chance of an off dz landing.
If the jumpers like to decide the spot themselves, work out what you think it should be in your head first, every now and then they will be way off, and a mention that you thought it might be "deeper and more to the north" for example will either make them re-think it or make you look better when they all land in a paddock!(very satisfying when they turn up for the seconmd load and adjust it to close (never exactly the same) to what you said.
Another interesting thing is that I only ever came across a couple of jumpers who adjust for height when working out the winds, that means that most of them will look at a ground speed of 90kts and an indicated of 90kts at 10,000ft and think that there is no wind when really there is close to 20kts on the nose.
Like the others said it is a great way to get to know the plane before doing other jobs, you can do whatever sort of approaches you like and in one day practice flapless, min dist, crosswind....whatever then try again the next, great fun.
One point though, some operators pay well, they never get a mention tho, I was lucky and got payed very well when I was doing it. Just ask around to find out who pays what.
Have fun. cjam

[Travelair]

I carried a knife, bottle of water, and a flat blade small screwdriver. A funny one decided to take the keys one sunny windless day...then i poked the screwdriver into the key hole and bang, engine loved it!!!

The best bit was that since I had plenty of fuel, I went to another strip where I left the plane, and went home, a bit irritated. Left and SMS message saying I was OK, but left it to them to organise the pickup.

That was the last time that sort of bull was pulled on me...and I had a ball flying professional PJE! Might be better just to take a spare key...they can be cut anywhere!

Be responsible and enjoy!

[TIMMEEEE]

Lots of good advice on here.

My own experience (some 20 years ago now) was that parachute aircraft were quite often buckets of ****e mechanically.
Lots of unserviceabilities typically and things like dodgy magnetos (dont worry mate - our other pilot reackons its ok!) made me ground the aircraft and walk away.
My replacement at that place tried to take off one day with less than full power (same dodgy mag) and crashed off the end with 5 meat bombs on board.Minor injuries and bloody lucky.
When will people learn.

My experience with parachute jumpers at that time were that they were brain dead when it came to commons sense and airmanship and didnt give a rats about the aircraft condition, weight and balance or impending last light - as long as they can get their high !!!

Use your brains, dont run out of fuel and dont be afraid to tell them where to go if they want you to do something you dont want to.
Just remember these guys will point the finger at yourself and hang you out to dry if there is an accident.

[Going Nowhere]

Captnicka,

Is the DZ you're talking about in SE QLD?

PM me if you wish, as I'm looking at doing some jump flying in the near future.

[skygeezer]

Funny old bunch are'nt they??

I've had three hanging off the left strut on the 182......not really funny when youre a low time jump pilot at low speed even if it was at 10 grand. They thought it was funny though.......oh how we laughed..........

I've got over 2000 jumps myself but the moving CofG in the back does make me twitch sometimes.......now I know why some jump pilots are either (a) mad or (b) very snappy!

Seriously though......I think you'll find that a lot has changed from the crazy old days of the 60's and 70's and skydivers know a lot more now about the aircraft, the pilot and the limitations of both.

its a great way for someone to build a lot of hours quickly......but the pay is crap.

happy skydiver driving!

[bushy]

Three hanging fro tme LEFT strut?? Were you flying from the right hand seat?

[Cypher]

Paul, all good advice on this thread.

I'm not sure what the Australian industry is like, but I can tell you I have had an absolute BLAST with working within the New Zealand Parachute industry.

Some tips;

1/ NEVER get forced into IMC. No matter WHAT! When the cloud is 8/8s overcast, educate the jumpers WHY you can't go through it. They will say they don't care because they are out of the plane and don't have to land, but point out to them that they will have NO more jumping for the rest of day is the plane is in a million pieces.

2/ Never force the jumpers to leave the aircraft if they are not ready over the drop point. Let them make their own informed decision when to jump. Point this out to them and say I won't force you to jump. You will jump when YOU are ready. Let them dirt dive to they are happy. I always said to them before flying, do you guys want a dirt dive first. More often than not... they'd say yes.

3/Consider going for a jump yourself. My employer required that I complete a static line course before employement. I did, five times. I loved it. And it gives you alot of crediability with the skydivers when you say you've jumped. They don't see you as 'just another pilot'.... They see you as someone who sees them for what they are. People out to have fun and push their own limits, safely...

4/ Get to know your meatballs, I mean mates. I got to know the people that jumped out of my plane as mates, not as meatballs. There is a hard core group of people at each dropzone that will keep the zone running. They are a great group of people. They are not crazy. They are just pushing their own limits, without really wanting to push anyone elses.

5/ Check that park brake like crazy. Some guys will want to go out rear float, as in last to leave and will ask you to put the park brake on to prevent them doing a impersonation of a mouse on a wheel. Check like buggerary before you land that the damn thing is OFF!!!!

6/ Take care of that engine of yours! Lean it properly. When descending, leave it lean. Riching too early will force more fuel in to the engine, cooling it quickly. I often landed with a leaned out mixture, only going to full rich if I had to do a go around.
Take about an inch off per minute roughly, depending what aircraft you have. I flew a C206 and descended carefully at full power below 130 knots, VNE door off. Then powered off slowly at about an inch a minute passing 6000 ft to prepare for circuit entry. I used to enter the circuit at about 130 knots, 2000 ft AGL. Then zoom climbed at about 18" to slow down to 90 odd knots to go full flap and full fine. I NEVER did a wingover onto finals, just a straight ahead zoom climbed to loose the speed. I turned base when I was configured and stable at full flap, full fine and ready to land. I modified my circuit to suit, cause I knew I'd be high, but with full flap and full fine, the thing descended nicely if you judged it right, within a normal circuit.

7/ Talk on the radio like a DJ on speed. I was at a unattended aerodrome and used to make every sort of call on the jump run. Everyone knew where I was, how many canopies and where I was descending and what my intentions where to rejoin.

I managed to change the attitude on my dropzone. When I first started, they wanted me to fly in cloud and all sorts of dangerous s#it.
I managed not to only avoid that rule bending activity, BUT I also managed to educate them WHY it was dangerous in the first place and if they lost their jump aircraft, no more jumping for them.

I'm in jets now, but I still count my boss on the dropzone as a good mate, as well as the PEOPLE I dropped out of the plane. They weren't just meatballs to me, but my mates. That just spured me on to keep a close eye out for them and stop them from being a danger to themselves...

Some of them will be ar$eholes, most jumpers you meet will be the nicest people you ever meet, and we as pilots don't give these people enough respect and credit.

Cypher...

[skygeezer]

Now i know why the tower got so miffed when they said take the next left.................

I meant right :-))

[haughtney1]

some tips Ive picked up over the years...flown jumpers in C172,182,206,208...and a clapped out PA-31.

Know your A/C..from the point of view of its performance (real world..not book)
Utilize technology...most DZ A/C now have GPS..I invested in a moving map, best move i ever made, was able to set up run-in lines, way points for reference, and also a good get out of jail when you end up inadvertantly IMC...(if you fly jumpers for a while its gonna happen)
Make sure you know what the jump master is after....dont be afraid to ask if your not certain.
Fly conservatively...most skydivers are poor passengers....be smooth, accurate, and considerate.
Dont be scared to say no.....if the weather is iffy..the A/C unservicable...or there is anything else your not happy with...you have to speak.
Do a jump if you're keen..(I did a tandem after losing a bet at the bar....nearly S@%T my pants!)...but if not..try to understand that others enjoy this madness. (I think one day Im gonna have to do another jump....but Im working on my 5 iron for now)
:ok:
Finally have fun.....I still go Paradropping whenever I can....it can be a hell of a lot of fun.


Cheers

H

[zac21]

You said,,,,,,,,,

(I've just started a new thred on bird scaring advice and stories if any of you guys have done that!)

Where :ooh: ?????/

[elemenohpee]

After my first jump i found out the colour of fear....it's brown.

[Reverseflowkeroburna]

Don't ever feel obliged to do that "One last load!"

They'll try to talk you into that last load as the sun sits on the horizon..............as was stated earlier.........."If you aint comfortable with it, DON'T DO IT!" :ok:

[vic0_67]

Yep, I had a mate who started in this line of work. The jumpers pulled the key on him, resulting in a forced landing. He always took an extra set of keys from then on. Don't know if anyone would be stupid enough these days to do it...