Movers - please say a prayer.

[Mr C Hinecap]

Say a few quiet words for our civvy colleagues out there. Ouch.

Go here to the story.... (http://www.presstelegram.com/Stories/0,1413,204%257E24654%257E2176415,00.html#)

[Gainesy]

It appears that the fire service spokesman doesn't quite grasp weight & balance either.:confused:

[Echo 5]

I note that at this moment ABIW and J Bloke are logged in. Is a post imminent from either I wonder ?

Rgds

E5:D

[Always_broken_in_wilts]

Sorry for the late response but took Mrs L out for a romantic evening followed by a little passion:E

Movers let loose and unsupervised on a valuable airframe..........and anyone is surprised:rolleyes:

all spelling mistakes are "df" alcohol induced

[Guido]

Happened at Brize to a VC10 about 5 years ago!

[November4]

Except that was due to the Techies getting the de-fuel wrong

Nothing to do with the Movers

[BEagle]

Yes - and the aircraft was written off and scrapped as a result. Destroyed by utterly incompetent engineers.

[Always_broken_in_wilts]

That's why the J model is so successful.................no crew position for engineers:E

all spelling mistakes are "df" alcohol induced

[Snakecharmer]

Bit of a generalization, Beagle.

Always best to analyse the system within which these people work and, if it's flawless (!), make the sort of statement you made. Otherwise, suggest that, if anyone's serious about preventing such events occurring again, they concentrate on improving the whole picture rather than the people who work within it.

That said, I'm sure your comments made you feel better.

[Mr C Hinecap]

:ok: BEagle. Unintentional, but worthy catch there.

Hook. Line. Sinker. Copy of Angling Times. ;)

[ZH875]

Yes - and the aircraft was written off and scrapped as a result. Destroyed by utterly incompetent engineers.Unlike the Pilot who lost his Harrier in the sea due to moving the Flaps instead of Nozzles, Chinooks with damaged rear heads due to excessive flare on landing, Hawk lost because incorrect engine recovery drill carried out. Aircraft damaged in heavy landings, aircraft leaving runway after double high speed brake checks without leaving sufficient time to cool brakes, etc etc

Basically BEagle, there are more military aircraft lost/Damaged due to AIRCREW error than by utterly incompetent engineers.

The ball is back in your court.

[Always_broken_in_wilts]

Warming up nicely:ok:

Bloody well done Mr C:E

all spelling mistakes are "df" alcohol induced

[Krystal n chips]

Ok, my financial controller is away until tommorow, so with nothing better to do, other than work my way through non PC units of alcohol:ok: a few contributions to our Angling Times correspondent's definitive commentary.

1. The rather unfortunate demise of a Jag c/o an F-4 over sunny Wildenrath.

2. The wrinkled u/c doors on a Gnat--attempting to land with the gear still set in the air brake position as I recall--or just a "bit low" on the overshoot ?

:rolleyes:

3 A certain Tritanic attempting the unauthorised use of the autoland system at a secret airbase in Oxon ?

Anyway, need some clarification here please. Does the comment apply to :

Engineers per se
Engineers ( the troops )
Engineers ( Leaders of men and erstwhile superior ) :yuk:

With regard to the latter, I recall a certain Lightning at Gut landing overweight with a spurious fire warning. Left leg sheared on landing but otherwise no problems. A very experienced SNCO on the Sqdn, with "crash n bash" experience takes over the recovery and all proceeds well. Enter the Leader. Arrives and decided he, obviously !--knows best. Repositions trac-jacks , air bags etc and then orders "All ahead full" so to speak. Hate to get academic on this thread, but does the term "parallelogram of forces" ring any distant bells ?. If so, then the impact of the left aileron will come as no surprise----the damage to which added another 5 months to the repair. What a star ! :\
Nothing like being human however, and therefore fallible. :ok: which we all are and sure makes for good reading at times. And absolutely nothing to do with the original post of course :p

[Guido]

Wish now that I'd kept quiet!!!

[Duncan McCoughina]

Beags,

Whilst I respect your usually witty and and accurate comment on such matters, the gingers performing the defuel at BZN can not be held totally to blame for the defuel incident.

As I recall the Fin tank tank gauge ( for those who do not know the fin holds 5 tons of fuel) was u/s and not recorded properly in the 700, and was indicating empty, so the consequent defuel conducted in accordance with the AP resulted in a tragic upending.

JT Scroggins leading the operation therefore could not have known of the catastrophic C of G prob thus created.

Luckily a foggy day and prompt response prevented Mr Morgan et al getting hold of the pictures and making our lives more difficult than they are already.

I of course was not on type at the time so will bow to your superior knowledge.

Dunc

[Captain Gadget]

Assuming that all you say is true...

J/T Scroggins could have been standing under the tail when said 'tragic upending' occurred.

Mrs Scroggins and the little Scrogginses would probably not have been impressed.

Teamwork?

'Aviation is not inherently dangerous; but, to an even greater extent than the sea, it is terribly unforgiving of carelessness, incapacity or neglect.'

Eliminate f*ck ups and live longer.

Gadget :ok:

[Hydraulic Palm Tree]

ZH875

Not sure the Chinook accident you refer to was actually atrributed to aircrew error, but I stand by to be corrected.

HPT

[ZH875]

HPT

Maybe not that particular accident or even that particular aircraft type, merely pointing out to BEagle that Destroyed by utterly incompetent engineers can quite easily be amended to read "Destroyed by utterly incompetent aircrew" on more occaisions than he would wish to recount.

[Vage Rot]

The VC10- Fin Guage was indeed U/S. If they'd bothered to check the F700 it was there - I had the jet for a trial the week before!! The bu99er delayed the rest of the trial!

Still, whether a Ginger Beer or an Aircrew Mate, we are all accountable for our mistakes - unlike the bluntie b45t4rds who mucked up my pay by £600 in their favour this month - still, Cpl i/c PSF might just find himself on a Fizzer if it isn't sorted by the 10th!

[4fitter]

Vage Rot - sorry to hear about your pay. I too have been haveing a mare for the last 9 months. Was told by v efficient RAF clerk that my Dec 31 pay would be £1k short because there was a screw up at Glasgow. He had told them there was a mistake but Glasgow were too busy to sort it out before pay day.

A call to civvy clerk in Glasgow from myself and after getting her personal details I told her that if my pay was short on 31 Dec I would be ringing the Glasgow Constabulary and having her arrested for theft. Intake of breath then passed to supervisor. Same conversation to a potential accompliss. They soon realised that I was serious and guess what - pay was sorted (ish)

However, bottom line is that you have to persevere but maybe I am in a better posn to sound stern whereas SAC Snooks isn't. I make sure that all my troops now where I stand and they all know that I will personally intervene on their behalf. Hate to say it but JPA fills me with little joy and demise of military clerks will be a loss to good service.

Rant over and sorry for detracting from thread.

[Vage Rot]

Not detracting at all old chap!

BTW - pay sorted without resort to threat. No apology though!

Perhaps they read Prune!!