jobs downunder

[Sinik]

Can anyone tell me if it is easier/harder to get employed in Australia than the UK once I get an fATPL?

I'm yet to start training, am a British citizen living in the UK, but am shortly marrying an Australian. Our plan is to return to live in Australia in 2-3 years time, so am wondering if my chances of employment there will be even more limited?
I'm already 35yrs old, so realize I'm starting from a difficult base.


Many thanks,
Sinik

[Poontang Luva]

Your chances are EXTREMELY limited......

At your age Qantas wont touch you. Virgin Blue might but u gotta get a few thousand hours up on multi's. (I'm not sure but they might require Aussie citizenship, not just the right to live and work there - i might be wrong)

To build time in Oz you have to go bush (ie out in the sticks somewhere) where you will be treated like crap from most but not all operators and payed jack! Unless you are extremely lucky you will have to do one or two seasons on a single, like a C210 then they will put you on a light twin.

Thats why all us Skips try our luck here.

If a career as a flying instructor is appealing, then give that a go.

[redsnail]

Sinik,
I wish I could give you good news but I am afraid Poontang Luva has summed it up.
I'm afraid to say that your age is definitely going to be against you. Unlike in the UK, for most people to get a crack at a turbine you'll need ~+2000 hours with at least 500 hours on piston twins. This might get you a crack at a Bandit or something.
In reality you'll be looking at 3000 hours and 1500 hours twins.
Most of the folk get work out in the GAFA*. Instructing is another way however, unless you're really lucky it will take a while to get the hours.
There are some "cadet schemes" running around. No, not like here whereby you're paid to do them, you pay to do them.
Qantas do one, it's extremely competitive but obviously, if you crack it, you're laughing. I would see if Mac air/jet Craft still run one. (Biggest hassle with Mac air's is you don't get command time as far as I can see. For low capacity airline ops, the person must have 500 hours in command of multi engine aircraft - this isn't the same as P1 U/S). Have a look around.
If you crack on with it and score some good jobs then you may be able to get on with the regional airlines and the like. However, you don't have much time to spare.
You generally don't need citizenship, permanent right of abode is fine.
*Great Australian Fark All.
Good luck.

[VRThomas]

All right then,

What about a 40+ yr old Canadian ATPL with crap-loads of time on turboprops and jets?

Any chance of gaining a decent job flying in Oz?

VRT

[redsnail]

Define decent :D
It just depends on exactly what you call decent and what experience you do have.
Assuming you have residency in Oz and not ultra fussy which city/town you live in then you can have a bit of fun. The primary juggle is fun flying versus good lifestyle.
RFDS is considered a great GA job however, you'll be living in some pretty remote areas.
Coastwatch (Islanders, F406's, Dash 8's) is great fun. Live in remotish areas. Cairns is the go!
Plenty of regional turboprop work, Dash 8's being the main beasty. Qantaslink, Rex, Skippers (There are others of course).
Bigger toys. NJS for Bae146's, JetStar, new QF loco (formerly Impulse), Virgin Blue and of course Qantas.
Not that much in the Bizjet world I am afraid.
You might get a more detailed answer in D&G.

[Honest Fr@nk]

Get a job in Oz.

As one of the great ozzies herself once quoted "You should be so lucky, lucky, lucky, lucky." Minogue I think her name was.

When you see all the ozzies coming to the UK to get their experience so they can then bugger off back down under-You have to ask yourself whether you stand any chance in the UK as well as Oz.

Feel better now I've said that.

[Pin Head]

What about my chances of getting a job there,

27yrs old
3800hrs TT
1300hrs Jet (145)
1000hrs Dash?????????????

[redsnail]

Pin head, you'd be in with a good shot at the Qantaslink Dash 8's for sure. You'd have to get the immigration thing and lic conversion sorted out though.
Just a thought, do you have +500 hours of LHS time in your log book? (Reason why I ask is that Australia will not recognise P1 U/S time.)
Note, don't view a job with Qantaslink as a means of getting into Qantas mainline. It won't happen in 99.9% of the time.

[Pin Head]

1300hrs P1 all single cessna time though

[redsnail]

Right, your problem believe it or not is the lack of P1 time on multi engine aircraft. You may have a problem with Virgin Blue and NJS. Qantaslink may not look at you. Most of the 2nd/3rd tier low capacity guys can put you in the RHS but untill you get the 500 hours in command, you can't go to the LHS if carrying passengers in airline ops.
Qantas won't worry.

I can't remember if the oz CAO's are online. You'd need to look at CAO 82.3 and 82.5 to see what I am talking about.

Good luck.

[34R]

www.casa.gov.au

Follow the link for rules and regulations and you will find what you need.

Redsnail is right. You could have umpteen hrs PIC but if its all single it counts for little. 500 multi command or bust!! (as far as the RPT's are concerned)
I had some poor buggar with about 1500 multi turbine experience, (all RHS) knock on the door looking for a job on 210's doing scenic flights in the middle of the Northern Territory due to his cadet programme affording him very little PIC time, single or multi.

Qantas require 500 PIC only, and that gets your name on the end of a very, very, very long list.

[fiddlair]

What about me pals? (I think I know the answer)
42 years, 8500 comm jet hrs, 6000 PIC, recent on 737, Australian ATPL 737 type rated, EU citizen, no right of abode (and no chance to get over 40). Any chance for any job DU?????

[redsnail]

From what I can see it's the right of abode thing. The points do drop off a fair bit as you get older. The cut off is 44 (ie be under 45 years) if you're going out on a skills based visa. So I would crack on with the application.
If you have a close relo that will sponsor you then it isn't as much of a problem.
You'd have to scratch around the Dept of Immigration (http://www.immi.gov.au/facts/) to get all the facts.
You've got the licence so that is one hurdle sorted.
Good luck.
I believe Virgin Blue and possibly Pacific Blue (NZ based) are recruiting.

[Chilli Muscle]

The important thing at 35 if you are serious is to get on with it.
You have to get the ball rolling!.
I knew of a couple of English blokes who were working in remote areas 10 years ago and as far as I know they returned to the UK with a couple of thousand hours.
Australia has a lot of opportunity but you must make it happen yourself and expect competition to be stiff. If you get amongst it and don't stand whining on the sidelines chances are it will be OK. You will spend a lot of your career listening to how hard things are and how it will be impossible to get a job, how you are too old for this and do not have enough hours for that.
How tough the exams are Blah! Blah Blah!.
Every single jet jockey out there was an inexperienced junior pilot at some stage. Go for it!.
:ok:

[fiddlair]

Thanks redsnail! As I don't have any relatives, I cannot collect 120 points in the system (cause I'm over 40). Pacific Wings need right of abode, and Virgin Blue takes people only with recommendation of another Virgin pilot - is it true anyway?

[redsnail]

Virgin Blue also requires right of abode too. (Australian and New Zealand have practically invisible borders these days).
VB, it helps but it isn't essential. I haven't filled out an application for them, I believe it is done through pilotcv any way.
So for the first part it is basicly automated.
However, without right of abode, not much can be done.
DId you have a good look around the Immigration site? There are often ways and means of working around things.

[fiddlair]

I think so. They've just corrected the point limits from 115 to 120! With a job offer it would be much easyer, but no one wants to make any effort to help... And that's the end!

[triplespool]

So just clarify one point if I am an experienced 737 F/O (Three years on type) But I have only 200 multi command in piston twins, and the right to work in oz. I would have no chance at Virgin blue or similar? Is it really that bad..

[redsnail]

Low Capacity RPT (CAO 82.3) operations require the PIC (captain) to have a minimum of 2000 hours with 500 hours PIC (or PICUS - note, this is not the same as the UK's P1 u/s) on multi-engine aeroplanes under the IFR, plus 50 hours PIC or PICUS on the aeroplane type as well as 100 hours night. (Which you need for an ATPL any way)
RPT = regular public transport, ie an airline ops carrying passengers.
Low capacity refers to an aircraft with 38 seats or less and a payload of 4200kg or less.
Naturally, High Capacity RPT (CAO 82.5) operations means greater than the above.
I have had a brief look at the regs for High Capacity RPT ops and there's nothing specified regarding hours. (This was done to keep Qantas happy a few years ago)
CAO 82.0, 82.3, 82.5 (http://www.casa.gov.au/avreg/rules/orders/4392.htm#part82)
However, if Virgin Blue or any one else decides to put in their Operations Manual that they require 500 hours in command on multi engine aircraft then that is their right. I am not knocking your experience nor am I saying that they're right. Virgin Blue just prefer more experience in the LHS than what is stipulated in the regs. Also, the flying in Australia isn't SID-ILS as is more commonly found in Europe. (yes, I know there are exceptions).

Since you'd be able to get command reasonably quickly in the UK then the lack of command time becomes a moot point. :D