aircrew clean own aircraft

[17 years, manandboy]

I have heard rumors that those dashing hero types from our search and rescue squadron at RAF Valley have been washing their own aircraft. Not only washing it, but scrubbing it, polishing it and sweeping it out afterwards as well.

I’ve been assured that this is only due to a temporary blip in the “Ground Crew Manning” to “how broke the aircraft is” ratio, and is not setting a precedent for the future.

If this is truly the case, then let us applaud their efforts. Not often enough do we lay down our cups of tea or slices of toast to help the oily chaps in their hours of need.
“Sorry mate I’ve only just landed” is an excuse we use just a bit too much….. Crew duty…………I’m tired……………etc...

If this is a temporary blip, caused by a temporary manning short-fall , then maybe my first ever entry into this forum should be erased, with a generous helping of dry your eyes, get a life, get out more often………… But is it?

In these days of cost cutting, is this the thin edge of a wedge? How long will it be before this becomes the norm? Is this the start of a slippery slope that we shall all tumble down ar** first!

Could we ask a GR4 Jockey to “fill her up, and give the windshield a wash” post mission?
Could we ask the GR5 mate to “sort your own dodgy HUD”, due to lack of manpower?
Could we get the Puma P1 to AF/BF the old girl, after a 14 hour eagle VCP serial, cause the gingers are busy…. Oops we do that don’t we…….
Could we ask the ………….you get my drift.

I read the thinning out of the Military is now all about WINNING, That’s all well and good until you realize the numbers of timed served personnel you will be inevitably LOSING, because they're getting sick to death with the way life in the forces seems to be going!

Rant over!

:mad:

[Pontius Navigator]

On the mighty hunter we used to create confetti by the bucket load and leave the servicing chappies to do the valetting.

Some bright spark decided to trial an airborne vacuum cleaner.

A huge length of 1 1/4 inch white poly tube, like on a vacuum cleaner, but lighter and equally unmanagebale was procured.

After Tac Checks inbound the unruly serpent would be released from its basket, an equally large canvas holdall several sizes larger than the issue types.

One end would be connected to the sextant mount and the other waved around the cabin. Dyson eat your heart out. Nothing sucks like a Nimrod at 240 kts. The cabin differential and airflow did the buiz. Not sure if the trial was ever used again. Certainly anythng less than one inch big was never seen again - unless it was a toffee with impact adherence to the tail fin :).

That was late 70s

[Vage Rot]

Looking at the News this morning, we'll all soon have spangley red fire engines again to hose down the jets!!

Wonder where Mr B.Liar is going to get his FRESCO crews when we're down to 37000 with Iraq and Afghanistan too!!??

[Blacksheep]

Speaking as a Ginger Beer, I never could work out why cleaning up the mess after a flight was 'engineering'. Emptying out aircrew piss tubes or thunder buckets didn't seem to have much to do with electronic engineering, somehow. I must have missed something at Tech College.

I suppose its all down to wartime conditions when groundcrew must often hose out bits and pieces of any crew members too buggered up to do it themselves.

[Si Clik]

In the jolly old RN Sea King crews always had to wash their own p$%* out of the tube if used. Never known it always used a bottle or the sonobuoy chute instead.

Washing the aircraft tended to be a team aircrew thing on a no flying day post an exercise or prep for a big port visit.

Those were the days.:cool:

[Flatus Veteranus]

Whats the big deal? Perhaps today's aircrew are getting too precious.

On 208 in the early fifties it was "all hands bull-up the aircraft" before a display or a visit by some dignatory. If a pilot was sufficiently senior on the squadron to have his name under the cockpit coaming his help with cleaning his own aircraft was mandatory. We used to leave the cordite stains around the cannon ports for effect.

At Waddo in the sixties it was quite routine for QRA crews to help remove snow from the Vulcans' wings and generally bull them up. Especially if the Soviet attaché was expected to drive by.

I presume these customs have lapsed since servicing was contracted out and bulling up aircraft became part of the contract.

[Fg Off Kite]

Shame the C17's only got 2 pilots, now that's a lot of overtime!

[BEagle]

The only a/c I had with my name on the side was XX546, 'my' Bulldog. When I got back to the UAS from KKIA after having been sent away from the UAS to fly VC10s in Gulf War 1, I put a discreet Saudi flag sticker next to my name.

The miserable old $od who 'ran' the contract maintenance lot raised a job card for 'Non-standard marking to be removed from a/c fuselage'. He really was an utter trade union jobsworth and should have been fired - he was from the 'minimum effort' school.

However, two can play at that game. From then on I snagged any dirty mark, blemish or stain until the lazy fat ba$tard got the message!

[John Eacott]

Cleaning aircraft? Normal Friday job for aircrew, prior to early finish, ISTR: the really dirty Wessex 3 would be done in 20 minutes with numerous brooms, buckets of WD40, and rearranging of soot on the tailboom. The WD40 just made it look shiny: fooled the SP for ages, that one ;)

Sea King P tube was a great "relief" during 4 hour casex, although the ensuing A21 followed me around for a few years.......:rolleyes:

[Blacksheep]

Aw come off it Flatus! We poor erks on QRA were dragged out of our caravan as soon as it started snowing, to stop any build up in the first place. You lot only came out after breakfast to play snowballs while pretending to be useful ;)

Besides, there were only two of us per aircraft and there were five of you. Thats why you always won the snowball fights...

[Bill O'Average]

SOP's for the pongo's!! Brill in the summer, water fights etc. Not such fun after a winter ex, North German plain though.

We even do the tech standards cleans. Bulling rags at thirty paces with the duty grown up REME 'supervising' us from the uckers board.

Rite of passage IMHO. Except when I'm on engine bay cleaning duty (not a clean place on a Lynx!!)

[Pontius Navigator]

One thing that did piss me off as aircrew was cleaning the sodding oven liner. True it could be wiped down when cool but it could only be cleaned properly with oven cleaner.

Naturally we did not fly with oven cleaner and had to scrape the damn thing with dinghy knives and wipe with kim wipe.

Elsan's got very technical. Remember each linney got paid an extra 50p per day that he emptied the elsan but you could not just shove it down the drain.

Pee tubes in the Vs were pure bliss. By convention the aircrew used one end and we hoped the groundcrew used the other. By that I mean we simply poured the contents out the top and left it on the nose wheel to drain and cook in the sun <g>. Who knows what it did for the tyres?

[BEagle]

On our way back from Goose once in a Vulcan, the Nav Radar discovered that the milk he'd been given at Herb's Hall was off. Trouble was, it came in a polythene bag and there was nowhere to pour the rancid contents away - except into his pee tube! So upon arrival at Scampton, the Customers Officer was astonished to see the door open, a figure jump out and scamper over to the pan drain clutching a pee tube from which a most strange liquid was seen to pour!

We had a NATO exchnage with the German Navy once at Wattisham; compared to our dirty, oily and very scruffy F4s, their F-104s were immaculate and even the inside of every access panel gleamed. But then they had massive numbers of conscripts who attended to such matters.....

[The Cryptkeeper]

Bill O'Average,
Along with washing you forgot to include - pushing/pulling, daily flight servicing, blanking, polishing windscreens, ITDs, cleaning out skips (a personal favourite of mine), marching up and down the square, role stores, guards, running around fields with guns, helping the groundies clean landrovers, etc, etc. All in a days work for AAC "Aircrew"!!!!!!
We love it though!

Edited because I forgot about getting locking wire right up under your nails during standards washes!!!

[Flatus Veteranus]

Blacksheep

Touché! I was, of course, merely a "supervisor". :O

[EESDL]

It was SOP that the crew would carry out the AF/BF after a full day/night flying around the bogs of NI. Guess the powers that be never did get around to basing gingerbeers at the outstations.

The only worrying aspect was inspecting the head, offering the boys with the Barrett a golden shot to take down the Services' finest aviators (!).

Of the 3-man crew, the one who could cook was excused so he could crack on with supper/breakfast/lunch blah.
I guess that's all been taken care off now there are girls flying SH!! Then the Puma lot have had girls flying them for years (well within 3 secs I thought)

Sorry, this is not another Banter thread, just a gently reminded to the new boy that certain aircrew actually like to help maintain the ac that they operate, especially when you see the conditions that they have to operate in.

Best part of the af/bf....running a book on how many rivet heads would fall out of the intake cover when you lifted it up this time......
Q. How many pilots does it take to tie-down the rotors?
A. 13, 1 to hold the cover and 12 to turn the aircaft round.

[SilsoeSid]

The aircraft wash, memories of Monday morning parades, shiny boots, pressed uniform, "smart as a carrot", inside for a quick brew and morning brief to be told;
"Standards wash/clean,(a fairly thorough clean complete with engineering inspection) which HAS to be done this morning".
"Sorry all our techs are too busy to assist" ;)

Excuses ranging from, sorting out cam nets to the COs conference. Funny how everything had to be done NOW! :ok:

Lynx engine bays and tail rotors are the pits, the a/c cleaning kit was always a pain to get hold of and the batteries on the ML handlers were always flat!

Nowadays though, Thursday mornings, aircraft wash. It's on the roster.
Open locker, cleaning kit out, fly to washdown point. Clean aircraft, fly back to parking. Sorted.
Engine/MRGB deckings kept clean during week(check A), no dirty tail rotor. (NOTAR!)

It's such a lovely evening I'm now going and give her a quick wax/polish. :cool:

[woptb]

Yes it is the thin end of the wedge !. Now poofta get that airframe sparkling:} !!.

[Big Cat Handler]

It would be the thin end of the wedge, but sadly Station Workshops have been too busy to sharpen the wedge recently. :*

[Pontius Navigator]

BCH, workshops? What is that?

My original sqn HQ at a major airbase in Lincs was ex-WWII and not a hangar annex. In its next life it became the carpenters shop now, as there are no carpenters, it is a hole in the ground.

To change a light bulb took 2 men, in 2 vans, each doing 2 25 mile round trips.

One trip to bring the bulb, the next to bring the ladder.

[you want what??]

Pardon me for even suggesting this, but are the aircrew too important to lend a hand cleaing their own Sh1t out of the Aircraft, or washing out some poor tw*ts blood?

"but thats not in our Job description?"

i dont remember that phase in any of my training courses either!

dont feel singled out here either, im a Airframe tech, and as such, we are left to do all that, cos the Leckies and Fairies dont want to get their overalls dirty, and the Sooties are away playing cards in the smokers cabin, where the supervisors dont think to look! to the point now where its just accepted to be a riggers job!

If i may suggest, why not go and volunteer to give a hand, the ground crew will then see you as perhaps a good guy who lends a hand, and will be more inclined to let the odd snag go, or fix/bodge something for you so you can get your couple of hours flying in. perhaps there will be more servicable aircraft to fly if you help out and let the Techies/riggers, get a few extra hours fixing stuff instead of cleaning up after you! Trust me, at the end of the day, they will be at work a hell of a lot longer than you will. Your niff naff and spuriuos 707 entries will see to that!

[Always_broken_in_wilts]

Sounds like someone now regrets not putting in that extra bit of work whilst at school :{

Last time I looked, and I was a techie for many years, windows, cabin floors etc were in fact all the domain of the Rigger........hence thats why you deal with it :ok:

Maybe next time I get back of route and leave a multitude of scoff on the bunk, not in the freight bay or the gypsy's will thieve it:E , I should label it for the consumption of hard working riggers only..........or maybe just give it to ALL the hard working guys who keep our aircraft flying.....despite all our niff naff 707 entries:yuk:

all spelling mistakes are "df" alcohol induced

[soddim]

Polishing the Lightnings on 19 squadron used to be the standard "punishment" for junior pilots who got caught in my day. However, after we spread the word about metal polish reducing the strength of the aircraft panels it was banned. Neat rumour that one!

[woptb]

Don't wish to micturate on your strawberry patch , 'always broken',but whats the minimum qualification level for a winch weight these days ?. DING ! DING ! - Going down !.:}

[you want what??]

Always_broken,

i am MORE than qualified to do any aircrew job, however it was never my passion. i do my job because its what i enjoy, and whilst i do conceed, that windscreens etc are our domain, im certainly not cleaning any Aircrew Piss tubes or your of your sh*t you leave behind, purely in the basis that im a rigger and its just been left to me! but as you seem to have adopted Aircrew way of thinking, you're not really willing to give anyone a hand! as for your "Scoff", well, thats something thats not really going to happen, lynham couldnt make snack pack if their lives depended on it! only the sealed goods they havent touched are palletable, and only cos you have no choice in there a 30000 ft.

and one more thing! Riggers are ALL hard working, when did you hear at a shift handover that the riggers had nothing to doo and everyone else was busy? thats happens as often as brigadoon appears!

i personally dont see whats wrong with a loady sweeping out his own cargo bay/passenger cabin. remember as a techie it was instilled in you as imperitive to keep your own workplace tidy. you dont go out to a servicable jet and find Kimwipe and drissett pads everywhere, or oil cans and tools lying about do you? not unless they have just finished. they dont go off shift and think, "to hell with it, let the aircrew deal with it, makes no odds to me"

i guess i'll just have to wait longer to find aircrew who treat us like human beings, they must be out there somewhere, surely! c'mon someone proove to me my quest is not fruitless!

funny how soddim, (not having a go at you soddim) echos what most other pilots say, that cleaning the aircraft was a punishment or a sh*t duty no-one wanted! what makes you think we want that mind numbing task anymore than you do? and for us it not punnishment, its dad to day work!

[Always_broken_in_wilts]

Wop:rolleyes: Not a single A level, GCSE, CSE or any other qualification to me name but it's amazin' what fantastic job satisfaction and substantial financial rewards a bit of hard work can bring:p

Unhappy rigger:rolleyes:

"i do my job because its what i enjoy"......not the picture your painting here fella:confused:

"as for your "Scoff", well, thats something thats not really going to happen, lynham couldnt make snack pack if their lives depended on it!".......that maybe so but ask the shift who had the 3 big boxes of sarnies, pax meals, choc bars etc etc that I left on the bunk this week if they enjoyed their "supper":ok:

"personally dont see whats wrong with a loady sweeping out his own cargo bay/passenger cabin"..... most of us do! and we have a quick tidy round on arrival back at Lyneham but after a long and often very busy route it's not surprising things get missed:(

"you dont go out to a servicable jet and find Kimwipe and drissett pads everywhere, or oil cans and tools lying about do you?"..... maybe not but we regulalry find the ladder lying around, the PMA not put away, the PMA carry bag not secured, seats incorrectly fitted, seat backs not tensioned, life jackets not distributed evenly, loose rolls of kimwipe, detritus from previous trips etc etc..........come watch next time any of us do our pre flight and take note of the crap we continually have to put right:}

"i guess i'll just have to wait longer to find aircrew who treat us like human beings"... not one of us asks you to do ANYTHING that is not in your job spec so go whinge at your trade managers/sponsors as they are the ones who have put you in the unhappy sitch you currently find yourself in:ok:

all spelling mistakes are "df" alcohol induced

[Krystal n chips]

yww? Just a bit of advice sunshine :mad: Wind the proverbial in please. As you are so clearly pi$$ed off on the Line, why not ask for a transfer to a nice, quiet, structures / hyd / tyre / role bay------bet you would be killed in the rush by the guys who WANT to work on the Line and away from the tedium of a bay. Some helpful advice for the future. How much c$$p does a Herc generate ? How much do you think an IT Airbus / Boeing etc generates? Think about it carefully. Now, as an engineer, you will encounter a nasty shock called ATA Chapt 25. True, you won't have to clean the aircraft, but you will have to clean and rectify the galleys, toilets, trim, carpets, furnishings and fittings etc. Plus the average cleaner doesn't give a rats about the condition of the F/D or cabin, so you will invariably find you have to continue their efforts as well.
As an engineer, it goes with the territory so either get used to it or change direction now. Simplistic enough ? :confused:
Before you ask, no, never cleaned a Herc when working for Aunty Betty, merely a pax on numerous tedious excursions. Plenty of experience in the IT / Corporate and Scheduled worlds however.
Nothing personal in this post :D just that you don't have a valid point or credible argument--simply a full scale whinge :ok: Have a nice day :hmm:

PS I am a nice person really, my mum says so and so does my financial controller :ok:

[StiffNose]

As a co-pilot on 32 Sqn VIP Andovers in the 70's it was standard practice to keep a can of Brasso in the headset bag to polish the brass static vent plate and the chrome engine exhausts between sorties. Not to mention topping up the engine oil at the top of a ladder in No 1 uniform which was our standard "flying kit". Even on VIP Pembrokes in the 80's as Captains we polished the static vents, wiped off the oil (lots) from the engines, hoovered the carpets and cleaned the tables before each flight. It was about pride in the job, a quality which seems to be in short supply nowadays.

[Beeayeate]

What a sad little thread. :hmm:

Aircraft cleaning was in the domain of the rigger in my day, didn't expect any help from the zobbits, they'd just get in the way! :rolleyes: As did anybody else who could be press-ganged, they just didn't do it properly. Anyway, cleaning the exterior of aircraft was only a real p.i.t.a. if some lazy gits hadn't done it for yonks previously. An external "cleaning" was just about the only time that the whole skin of the kite would be gone over, often revealing small or incipient problems. And it was always easier to spot potential snags, (hyd weeps, u/s fasteners, loose rivets, panel fits, stuff like that) on clean kites, that was the whole point really I reckon. Biggest problem was trying to get others to keep them in a clean state! But using that manky MoD issue Wadpol, what a waste of time - Tepol and water did the job better (especially if you promised a drink to the fire section).

As for internal cleaning, clean as you go whatever trade, only a matter of sense I reckon, think FOD, aircrew would do this as well. The pi$$ tubes were, I admit, never easy to deal with, always felt uncomfortable doing that. But they needed doing and handling with care as urine, next to mecury, is one of the most corrosive substances you can have in aircraft (all those tales of pi$$ing down the Vulcan entrance door, no thought for the riggers). So it was in the interests of riggers to ensure these "relief" gadgets were carefully retrieved from the kite and emptied and cleaned out properly - it prevented a lot of "corrosion" hassle in the long run. The bogs on VickyTens, Brits, etc were no real problem either with a sh1t-wagon (but Racasan filling could be fun - blue hands job).

No, "cleaning" the kite was all part of the job for a rigger, moaned about yes (like everything else), but never left to, or expected to be done by, others, especially zobbits. But StiffNose has it about right - "It was about pride in the job, a quality which seems to be in short supply nowadays."

:ok:

[soddim]

Bit worrying this enmity twixt ground and aircrew - never existed in my day because we all got on and did our own jobs and respected others who did likewise. Hope these quarrels don't go on today at the sharp end or it'll soon be getting blunt.

[Always_broken_in_wilts]

Soddim,

What you read here is not a true reflection of the co-existence of air and ground crew here in Wilts. I have yet to fly with an SVC from the line, or most other work places come to that, who has not had a top time and enjoyed the "mucking in" that is the day to day life when operating Albert :ok:

One person is not happy with his/her lot and has chosen the wrong forum to expect any sympathy and you only have to look at the variety of backgrounds of those responding to confirm that:ok:

Whilst never "sweetness and light" I believe a feeling of grudging admiration for what each of us achieve with the limited resources available is prevalant on both sides of the air/ground crew fence:ok:

all spelling mistakes are "df" alcohol induced

[Bill O'Average]

But youre just honoury aircrew, ABIW. Smallest vote, biggest gob by the look of it.

[Always_broken_in_wilts]

Oh dear:rolleyes:

It's late and someones been at the sauce again:( All that booze is gonna kill you fella:p Best drink some coffee and try and get some sleep and maybe you will feel better about yourself in the morning:ok:

all spelling mistakes are "df" alcohol induced

PS Should I check me Pm's again for the usual punchy repsonse:rolleyes:

[Bill O'Average]

Not at all, dullard. Im actually night flying tomorrow so Ive been allowed to stay up a bit late by me mum. (You know, night flying, from the front, hands on the controls). Of course, you wouldnt know would you. Do you pretend to be a pilot when you go to airshows?

Go on, you can tell us.


Youre paranoid ref threatening PMs bloke. :ouch:

I like to think that we still have that bridge in the ditch dwellers. We wouldnt dream of leaving the cab in cack state after a sortie. After exercise, its always the aircrews job to de gunge the inside and outside. Land on, de kit cab, drag it to washdown, de gunge.

If we are doing a PSI (VIP) job, its down to the crew to make sure its shiny.

There is still a requirement for the Flight Commander to sign the job card of each cab each month stating that the cabs are clean too! Not sure if its ever done though!

[SilsoeSid]

BOA,
Im actually night flying tomorrow so Ive been allowed to stay up a bit late by me mum. (You know, night flying, from the front, hands on the controls). Of course, you wouldnt know would you.
One day Bill, when you get older, you'll be put in charge and the other guy flies the aircraft and you tell him what to do! None of that dirty hands on stuff, unless of course you're single pilot. :=
We wouldnt dream of leaving the cab in cack state after a sortie. After exercise, its always the aircrews job to de gunge the inside and outside. Land on, de kit cab, drag it to washdown, de gunge.
..... find excuse to go to mess, NAAFI, pay office, or if all else fails either be in charge of high pressure hose or get to tail rotor first.:ok:
If we are doing a PSI (VIP) job, its down to the crew to make sure its shiny.
I always found asking for help was a good idea. Never be afraid to ask for help. While you panicked over planning the fuel, route, timings, clearances, HLSs, hotels etc, others would offer to help out. Teamwork is a great thing.....if you have friends that is. :ooh:

It's been a while Bill, and you still live up to your username here. :suspect:

[Always_broken_in_wilts]

"Youre paranoid ref threatening PMs bloke."

So you can't recall the one you sent me entitled

"Kick your Steward sh!tbox":rolleyes:

Which contained the following terms of endearment

"Bratton, 0800, Sunday Morning. Best you sign up to BUPA. *** rash":rolleyes:

All those late nights boozing have started to take affect me old Overage chum but it's a comfort to find from your lates PM that I am "irritating" you:ok:

all spelling mistakes are "df" alcohol induced

[Bill O'Average]

Do you two do a double act? Can we expect to see you both at Rhyl this Summer? Which one is the funny one?

ABIW, youre dillusional mate. I thnk you write yourself PMs just to feel wanted.

[Always_broken_in_wilts]

So of course you will not be able to recall that other timeless classic PM containing this well educated oneliner:rolleyes: ..................

"You really are an insecure childish pr**k. Grow the **** up, to@@er."

Or did I make this one up as well:confused:

Bearing in mind the comment above and those from my previous post are just "cut and paste" I am not sure why you are denying sending them. Maybe others have some of your gems they would like to share :E

all spelling mistakes are "df" alcohol induced

[Echo 5]

ABIW,

I've been sat on the sidelines just enjoying this thread.
Such eloquence and remarkable turn of phrase from the "cammed up" one.

"Nob Rash " ....................... Don't you just love it (hee hee).

E5.:)

[PPRuNe Pop]

Cut out the real term swearing guys. You butch's aint the only ones who read it!

[Always_broken_in_wilts]

Apologies POP but as I said they were direct "cut and paste" from PM's recieved.

I have now gone back to the posts and edited them properly, as I should have done in the first place. Apologies to anyone my error may have caused offence to.

all spelling mistakes are "df" alcohol induced

[Bill O'Average]

Back in your pram ABIW. Stop being so disruptive.

Basher oops, I mean Silsoe, done the single pilot stuff thanks. I take it you used to make the excuses why you couldnt clean the cabs?

On the whole, the aircrew/groundcrew relationship isnt too bad in the Corps. There are a few who let the side down but they tend to leave and end up flying in the North of England for some such org.

[SilsoeSid]

Bill,
Basher oops, I mean Silsoe, done the single pilot stuff thanks. I take it you used to make the excuses why you couldnt clean the cabs?
On the whole, the aircrew/groundcrew relationship isnt too bad in the Corps. There are a few who let the side down but they tend to leave and end up flying in the North of England for some such org
You don't know how silly you have just made yourself.

I had to quote you on this, because it would be so easy for you to delete your post and then deny it.

However I shall pass on your regards to those concerned.

In the meantime, looking at your past posts, you seem to be the pprune parasite, jumping from thread to thread having a one liner here and there and disappearing again. Nothing constructive, just pityful.

SilsoeSids identity is no great secret, I don't feel the need to hide, but obviously some do, Eh Bill!!

[SilsoeSid]

Bill,
On the whole, the aircrew/groundcrew relationship isnt too bad in the Corps.
I didn't think you had been with a 'front line unit' for a while now. :confused:
Anyway where you are, aren't the groundcrew civvies? :ooh:
Just a thought on your authorative statement. :hmm:

Never had a problem with groundcrew, because I never forgot that I was one myself once. :ok:

[17 years, manandboy]

I started this discussion a few weeks back now, and basically I’ve seen it degenerate because of a few obviously bitter and twisted individuals.
Let me state a few facts.

1 I used to be an engineer, although to my detriment, I was only a fairy, not one of you hero rigger types…………

2 I worked with fast jet mates for the first 8 years of my career, so a “lets all help each other out” attitude was not high on the agenda.

3 I worked on a front line support helicopter squadron for 4 years, where a “lets all help each other” attitude was actually necessary for the squadron to function.

4 I do not think that all engineers sit around all day watching TV, nervously waiting the return of their previously fully serviceable aircraft.

5 I know for a fact that aircrew do not take your perfectly serviceable aircraft and break them for fun.

6 I don’t expect ground crew to pick up all the ****ty jobs on the squadron whilst we swan off home to drink beer and tell war stories.

7 But I also don’t expect to see a single one of you whilst I’m over a border getting shot at by the very unhappy local people, or while I’m watching hydraulic oil run down the side of the aircraft into the sea while we’re 150 miles from land or when I’m on a hill side scraping up the bits of someone who’s fallen 3 million feet down a cliff onto sharp rocks.

We all have a job to do, and we all need to help each other when we can, but we also need to realize that if one person does every job that needs to be done on the squadrons then the powers that be will think that they can cut thousands of jobs from the military, and we’ll still be able to fulfill all of our commitments…………………

Bugger!! They beat me to it!

[Always_broken_in_wilts]

Nothing wrong with being a fairy:ok:

Cosford 74 as a Nav Inst Mechanic and back again 77-79 to become L tech FS:ok:

Concur with all your points...especially the last one:sad:

all spelling mistakes are "df" alcohol induced

[TheNightOwl]

A_B_I_W: It seems we have something in common - I started as an Inst Fitt(Nav) in 1961, then went on to become an LTech(ST) in 1968 until I left in 1983. You're correct, "...nothing wrong with being a fairy... ".

Kind regards, from one fairy to another!

TheNightOwl.:ok:

[sex it up]

What do the precious aircrew master race do between sorties? Other than stalk the bar in flying suits. There should be a lot more utilisation of 'between sortie' aircrew perhaps with some of the additional duties that the good old EngOs get up to. Is there any reason that they can't look after the Sqn MT, or take over some t-bar duties, let them loose interacting with the ground crew......steady on.

I once heard a fine chap complaining that the Sqn boss wanted all the crews to attend the Sqn during the hours 8-5 rather than turning up in civvies a couple of hours before a sortie. Bless.

[BEagle]

Grow up, you idiot.

An appreciation of the tasks faced by non-shift workers (such as aircrew) might be in order before you post such puerile drivel.

Or was you post spawned purely by jealousy?