Westland. End of the line for British helicopters?

[Heliport]

BBC News report Helicopter firm may be bought out

Speculation is mounting that Britain's only helicopter-maker, AgustaWestland, could be sold to its Italian partner.

Investment bank Goldman Sachs says GKN, which owns the UK half, may be close to selling its 50% stake to Finmeccanica, which owns the other half.

Westland and Agusta merged in 2000, creating a company with an order book totalling £5.33bn.

The Westland factory, which is based in Yeovil, makes Lynx and Apache Helicopters.

In 2002, Westland's Weston-super-Mare plant closed, with the loss of 350 jobs.

In June last year, the company's fortunes turned around with Westland Helicopters landing a contract with the Japanese Defence Agency worth more than £300m.

[CRAN]

Westland is not the only helicopter manufacturer in the UK, but the other one is keeping a very low profile until it's products are ready for launch.

CRAN
:)

[High Wing Drifter]

The Westland factory, which is based in Yeovil, makes Lynx and Apache Helicopters.
And the EH101 Merlin.

[SEL]

I get the feeling that this may have been the plan all along.

Cran, I'm intrigued, who are you referring to?

[widgeon]

deja vu all over again .

Didnt brilliantine get axed that last time this happened ?.

Dya think Bliar maybe affected by this one , nah not a chance ...

[Flying Lawyer]

No.

Heseltine resigned as Defence Secretary (and from the Cabinet) as a matter of principle over the Westland affair.
He fought hard backing a rescue package by a European consortium; Thatcher and the majority of the Cabinet backed a Sikorsky deal.
Thatcher ordered that anything he proposed saying about Westland had to be checked/approved by officials first.
Heseltine thought that was unacceptable given that he was Secretary of State for Defence, felt he couldn't comply with the instruction with honour, and resigned.

People resigning as a matter of honour and principle?
Remember those days?

[Helipolarbear]

End of the Line????? When did it actually start? Is there an ' Original Designed and Built British Helicopter' besides the venerable Lynx. No Sikorsky copies, or joint national ventures......pure British...................................????????????:} :} :confused: :{

[Low Ball]

Now we are getting close to my favourite subject. The Westland Scout didn't have anybody else's hand in it. And for the Fish-head fans lets not forget the Westland Wasp as well.

Low Ball

[paco]

Ah, the Scout - pulling cows out of bogs - I can't remember the details, but with that ability (cows are heavy) , how does the panel think it would it stack up against today's machines?

Phil

[md 600 driver]

but the scout was not a westland design wasnt it a saunders roe
come to think about it the partnership of both westland and agusta is a partnership of two similar companys who make other peoples machines even agustas own designs have a fair likeness to bells and uses parts from other bell helis

steve

[[email protected]]

Yes, Tarzan cost the British Military the Blackhawk which would have replaced the Puma, Wessex and probably the Lynx as well and provided an excellent support helicopter with superb lifting capability, not to mention 150 kt cruise. Instead we still have the Puma (knackered) the Sea King (good for SAR but not a proper SH machine) and the Chinook (top piece of kit for SH and we should have more of them). Thanks to Wastelands we have the Merlin (grounded) and the Lynx (great for stunting and bunting but not a battlefield helicopter). Yeah Michael thanks a lot for standing on a matter of principle.... tw8t!

[Flying Lawyer]

BBC NEWS:

GKN confirms Westland sale talks

Engineering group GKN has confirmed it is in talks to sell its stake in helicopter-maker AgustaWestland to its Italian joint-venture partner.
Chairman Sir David Lees said the company was negotiating with Finmeccanica, which already owns 50%, to sell its half of the business.

The sale of the business, which includes Yeovil-based Westland, could fetch more than £800m.
"A further announcement will be made when appropriate," Sir David said.
His comments came in a statement to shareholders at GKN's annual general meeting.

Finmeccanica is due to hold its annual general meeting next week and there was speculation on Thursday that a further announcement could be made then.


Changing fortunes

Westland and Agusta merged in 2000, creating a company with an order book totalling £5.33bn.

The Westland factory in Yeovil, which employs more than 4,000 people, makes Lynx and Apache Helicopters.

In 2002, Westland's Weston-super-Mare plant closed, with the loss of 350 jobs

In June last year, the company's fortunes turned around with Westland Helicopters landing a contract with the Japanese Defence Agency worth more than £300m.

Earlier this week Derek Simpson, the general secretary of Amicus, visited the Yeovil site and stressed the future of the company depended on continued orders from the UK Government.

"Westland is exactly the kind of high tech and high skilled employer that we need to retain in the UK," he said.

[Heliport]

Financial Times report GKN close to helicopter sale

GKN, the engineering group, is expected as early as next week to reach agreement on selling its AgustaWestland helicopter joint venture to Finmeccanica, its Italian partner.

The two companies are understood to be in advanced negotiations over the sale in which Finmeccanica is expected pay about £1.1bn for its UK partner's 50 per cent stake in one of the world's two largest helicopter makers.

The sale is expected to be approved by the British government if it obtains guarantees that Finmeccanica will retain a strategic helicopter manufacturing capability in the UK.
However, such approval could open the government to charges that it is allowing the country's defence industrial base to be taken over by foreign companies.

AgustaWestland manufactures almost all the UK's military helicopters but the order stream from the Ministry of Defence has all but dried up.

Final deliveries of the Apache attack helicopter, built under licence from the US, are due this year and the MoD has delayed a decision on two large helicopter contracts.

The Finmeccanica talks were confirmed yesterday by Sir David Lees, GKN chairman, after months of speculation. As late as last week, GKN denied it had plans to sell its stake in the joint venture, which was created four years ago.

[widgeon]

Sad to see , they were all that remained of a once proud industry. Saunders Roe , Fairey and Bristol .

http://www.helicoptermuseum.co.uk/westland.htm

now the Wg33 seems like a good idea , why was it never persued ?.

[Cyclic Hotline]

Just ask anyone that ever operated/flew/maintained them.

Then ask them if they would ever buy another Westland product?

This is the only helicopter that comes to mind, where the manufacturer actually cancelled the Type Certificate!

Designed in secret to meet a perceived market, that when it was unveiled, nobody wanted it.

For political reasons British Airways Helicopters and the Indian government operated them. All the ships in North America were returned to the leasing company, stored in the desert until the leases expired (10 years or so, later) and were then chopped up for scrap - a fitting end to the aircraft according to a good friend of mine - who worked for Westland!

Definitely eligible for a position in the worlds worst aircraft list.

However - when this topic was discussed some years ago, one satisfied customer stepped forward to defend it! :8

WG 30 testimonial (with some caveats) (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=19673&highlight=WG30) :8

[widgeon]

i was referring to the WG33 an entirely different beast. See the last entry on the link , a 2 seater coaxial light helicopter. I was in Yeovil during the WG30 era .

[Benet]

From The Economist (http://www.economist.com) - I felt this article puts a lot of background detail into the takeover (and I hope they don't mind me posting it here!)..

Hovering higher

May 27th 2004
From The Economist print edition

Finmeccanica's plans to fly high in America get off the ground

WHEN Pierfrancesco Guarguaglini took over as boss of Finmeccanica two years ago, Italy's biggest defence group—in which the Italian state has a 32% stake—was a hopeless jumble of assets. So he set about beefing up the firm's military side while cutting the number of non-core businesses and joint-ventures. On May 26th, another big step in this direction was announced, with Finmeccanica taking full control of AgustaWestland, a helicopter joint-venture which it had set up in 2001 with GKN, a British defence group. Mr Guarguaglini is now determined to become the world's top helicopter-maker.

The speed with which the deal was completed took rivals by surprise. EADS, a Franco-German aerospace and defence group that owns Eurocopter, its big European rival, reportedly tried to scupper the deal at the last minute. GKN is keen to get out of helicopters in order to concentrate on automotive and aerospace equipment. Finmeccanica can easily finance the euro1.5 billion ($1.8 billion) purchase of GKN's 50% stake by selling about half of its 17% stake in STMicroelectronics, a Geneva-based microchip-maker.

The price is high, but helicopters can be a relatively lucrative niche in the tricky defence market. Last year, AgustaWestland's 10.6% profit margin was higher than the average of Finmeccanica businesses. The firm already has its order book full for the next two and a half years. AgustaWestland and Eurocopter were neck and neck in the helicopter business last year with sales of euro2.6 billion each, ahead even of America's Sikorsky (a subsidiary of United Technologies), Textron's Bell and Boeing, the three other big players in the market. Analysts predict that total civilian and military helicopter sales, $12 billion last year, will double by the end of the decade.

To turn AgustaWestland into the market leader, Mr Guarguaglini must sell more helicopters in America. “Any firm with global ambitions has to be strong in America,” says Richard Holloway, a consultant to Finmeccanica. But as most countries like to give defence orders to home-grown firms, the Italian firm has to bolster its American credentials. It has formed a consortium with Bell and Lockheed, another American defence contractor, to pitch for the renewal of the American president's helicopter fleet. Finmeccanica is offering an American version of its flagship helicopter, the EH101. A team led by Sikorsky is bidding too. The winner, perhaps announced as soon as November, would be well placed to pitch for the 200 other helicopters which America intends to buy for its military over the next few years.

If it gets the contract for the 23 helicopters that will form the presidential and VIP fleet, AgustaWestland plans to extend a site in Amarillo, Texas, George Bush's home state. The firm also points out that it already has a joint-venture with Bell that sources 65% of its materials in America. Mr Guarguaglini hopes that good relations between the Italian and American governments will help clinch the deal. But even so, he is still a long way from landing his helicopters on the White House lawn.

On a slightly-related note, I just got my PPL(H) (http://forums.flyer.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=6395) :D

Benet

[Straight Up Again]

I haven't seen any mention of this on here (I trawled back a few days worth of topics to check), though I have heard rumours. (If it's been done, I'll delete)

Seems Wastelands is about to be fully owned by Finmeccanica.

Finmeccanica Press Release (http://www.finmeccanica.it/Finmeccanica/export/english/Comunicati/urlfile_id_1082966651262_Com%20Fin%20-%20AWpressUK,0.pdf) dated 26/05/04

Will this make much difference to them? Apart from all the new letterheads, signs, vehicle repainting, changing to preferred travel companies, remembering to use the correct name etc (we had memo sent out reminding us to say "GKN Westlands" not just "Westlands" when I was there), or has most of the changing around been done when they became AgustaWestland?

[CRAN]

IMHO all of the technical work will eventually be transferred to Italy, and the Yeovil plant will be nothing more than a manufacturing plant. Kept open soley for the purpose of securing UK MOD contracts in the future.

It's sad news but somewhat predictable.

CRAN
:(

[Heliport]

Daily Telegraph report Whitehall probes GKN's £1bn helicopter sale

The Government is investigating GKN's £1billion sale of its 50% stake in helicopter company Agusta Westland on grounds of national security.

The inquiry is the second time that the ministers have issued a European Intervention Notice in a takeover under the 2002 Enterprise Act.

Jacqui Smith, trade and industry minister, yesterday said she was asking the Office of Fair Trading to investigate the sale to Italy's Finmeccanica.

The notice will require the OFT to report back to Ms Smith on any national security concerns raised by the deal by October 4, after which ministers will decide whether to approve it.

The proposed £1.06billion acquisition is already being examined on competition grounds by the European Commission.

GKN's shares closed down 4.75 at 217p. A spokesman said: "This is a part of the regulatory approvals process which we said the deal would have to go through at the time we made the announcement."

GKN announced in May that it was planning to sell its 50% stake in Agusta Westland to Italy's Finmeccanica, the holder of the remaining 50% share.

The news signalled the end of Britain's direct involvement in the world helicopter industry.

The only other such notice was issued in April after the United States' General Dynamics offered to buy British tank-maker Alvis for £309m. The deal was eventually trumped by a £355m cash counter-bid from BAE Systems.

[Vfrpilotpb]

The sale of any private company is often taken to help the company survive in troubled trading time's.

Sadly as has been seen by many observers the current Labour (New Tory) Government of Toni Blair and his gormless cronies would rather see a company go bust, than sell out and allow some sort of survival, the idiots in our Government are even trying to be a World Power Militarialy having chopped and carrying on chopping the numbers to that of a fairly large Boy Scout troop!!

:mad: :}

Peter R-B

Vfr

[Leftpedal]

Hang on a minute mate, but wasn't it Margaret Thatcher' Tory government that disposed of Westland Helicopters in the first place? As I recall, Michael Heseltine resigned over the issue.

[handysnaks]

Sorry Leftpedal, you're mixing up your facts. It wasn't the tory governments company to sell, but being the UK's last Helicopter manufacturer and a defence contractor, Government approval was required for any partnership deals. Westland needed a partner to ensure their survival. They wanted to go with Sikorski. Michael Hestletine (a keen europhile) wanted them to join forces with a european company (Agusta, I think). When the Sikorski deal was approved at Cabinet level, Hestletine resigned.

[Leftpedal]

I stand corrected, thanks Handysnaks.

[Flying Lawyer]

PA News report Helicopter Firm Sale Set for Green Light

The Government today signalled the go-ahead for the £1.06 billion sale of helicopter maker AgustaWestland.

Competition Minister Gerry Sutcliffe said he had decided not to ask the Competition Commission to probe GKN’s disposal of its 50% stake in Yeovil-based Agusta to Italian firm Finmeccanica.

The move will end British ownership in the helicopter industry, which is now dominated by North American and continental European players such as Sikorsky, Boeing, Bell and Eurocopter, owned by European aerospace group EADS.

However, Mr Sutcliffe said he would only allow the deal if Finmeccanica and GKN pledged to protect sensitive data and ensure military helicopter production for the UK stays under control of a British-registered company.

It means Finmeccanica will have to seek Government approval before selling off or winding up significant defence-related assets of AgustaWestland.

Mr Sutcliffe said he had made his decision after the Ministry of Defence told him the merger raised national security issues.

“I am proposing to accept from Finmeccanica certain behavioural undertakings to ensure the protection of classified technology and information and the maintenance of a UK military helicopter capability,” he said.

Redditch-based engineering group GKN has said the sale will allow it to cut its debt and to make acquisitions to boost its automotive business and its other aerospace activities.

Agusta was formed as a joint venture in February 2001 from the merger of GKN and Finmeccanica’s respective helicopter businesses.

It produces commercial and military helicopters, including the light single-engine A119 Koala, the three-engine multi-role EH101, the Super Lynx 300 and the Apache AH MK1.

The helicopter maker was at the centre of the so-called Westland Affair in the mid-1980s, which led to the resignation from the Thatcher Government of former Defence Secretary Michael Heseltine.

[unhappyhamster]

Westland is not the only helicopter manufacturer in the UK, but the other one is keeping a very low profile until it's products are ready for launch.
CRAN
:)

I was looking for info on the Wg30, when I came across this comment by Cran - did he mean anything by this ??:confused:

Anyone ?

While I'm on the Westland subject, did anyone fly the 30 and what was it like ? How successful was it and how many were made ? Thanks guys.

[quichemech]

There are a few sat rotting in india, the only company I know of that operated them in the uK was BIH at beccles.

[SASless]

Parked next to some Comets and Concordes no doubt.

[The Nr Fairy]

If you want to see some WG30s, go to the International Helicopter Museum at Weston-super-Mare - one or two in reasonable condition, lots of hulks down the back rotting to pieces.

[MightyGem]

Orders were also placed by PanAm and Airspur in the USA. Don't know how many were delivered, but I seem to recall a t/r problem on one in the States. Westlands (http://www.whl.co.uk/history_overview3.cfm)

[outhouse]

WG30 was not bad but lacking in range and engine support from Rolls R. Upgraded to hold more fuel and the more powerful Gem engine would have helped. I seem to remember engine mount airframe cracking problems and oil leakage from the Nf aft oil seal into the exhaust, not surprising I suppose as the engine was mounted nose up. Time may have dulled the memory regarding comments.:ok:
outhouse

[Head Turner]

The SCOUT and WASP were products of Yeovil and so was the S K E E T E R, the little Saunders Roe Skeeter was also flown by the German military and the Portugese. Skeeter Mk12 was the first Army helicopter, then along came the Scout.

[unhappyhamster]

Thanks Gem - I haven't seen that Westland history site before - good call !:)

[Halfwayback]

HT
The Wasp was certainly a good helicopter in its day and never let me down in the 1,800+ hours I had in it. However having flown the Lynx and then returned to fly the Wasp again the deficiencies were very obvious - there was an engine missing for a start! The lack of doors when flying over the sea was another major deficiency - especially in the colder climes.

That said I still go out to see the one based near Exeter when I hear it coming past Yeovilton.

HWB :)