Rescuer falls from helicopter (or harness)

[snaggletooth]

Here's hoping the Langdale-Ambleside/Kendal MRT member makes a full recovery. Reports are that his injuries aren't life threatening.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/3722943.stmRescuer falls out of helicopter

A mountain rescue worker has been taken to hospital after he fell out of a helicopter during attempts to rescue a walker in the Lake District.
The Royal Navy Sea King helicopter from Prestwick, Scotland, came to the aid of the man who had fallen 15ft into a crevice on Pike of Stickle, Langdale.

But the blades hit a rock and the rescuer came out of the helicopter's harness, falling 40ft.

Both men were being taken to hospital, the RAF rescue centre said.

The incident happened just after 1500 BST on Monday.

The mountain rescue worker, a member of a local civilian team, was said to be seriously injured.

The helicopter landed safely nearby and the three crew were described as shaken but unhurt.

An RAF Sea King from Boulmer, Northumberland, was scrambled along with the RAF Leeming Mountain Rescue Team.

Both casualties were then recovered and taken to Carlisle Hospital.

The original casualty, a 20-year-old man, is believed to have shoulder injuries.

An RAF spokesman said such an occurrence was "very rare".

He said: "It underlines the hazardous nature of flying rescue attempts in mountainous regions.

"In a way this worker was fortunate that he had very skilled colleagues there with him who rushed to help. Hopefully that will make a difference."

He said an investigation into the accident could take months.

"The RAF will want to know exactly what went wrong down to the last detail.

"Investigators will look at everything from the vehicle's history to the weather conditions.

"Once a helicopter's blades touch the rock face then obviously it can't fly and the pilot has to land as quickly as possible.

"In this case they managed to carry out the emergency drill and land safely."

[jayteeto]

Is the SOP nowadays to cut the cable? 'Fell out of his harness' sounds unusual. If it was a cable cut, this emphasises just how big those winchman's cahooners need to be.

[snaggletooth]

The MRT Member 'came out of the harness', either thru his own volition or due to the violent a/c manoeuvre.

TBC, duty rumour at the mo' is that apparently they attempted to cut the cable, but, for whatever reason, the system malfunctioned (shades of 'The Green Lilly' & Bill Deacon RIP).

[Flying Lawyer]

Press Association version Rescuer Hurt after Helicopter Strikes Rock Face

An emergency worker fell 40ft from a helicopter harness today when the aircraft hit a rock face during a rescue.

The injured mountain rescuer was part of a team trying to save a 20-year-old walker trapped 2,000ft up in the Lake District.

The blades of the Royal Navy Sea King, from the Gannet Search and Flight at Prestwick in Scotland, glanced the rock.

Though the helicopter managed to land safely, the mountain rescuer, a member of a local civilian team, fell from his harness.

A spokesman for the Royal Air Force said: “The man sustained back, neck and head injuries.

“The three crew were shaken but unhurt.

“A fourth colleague, the winchman, remained with the original casualty.”

The original casualty had been walking on the Pike of Stickle, in Langdale, when he fell 15ft into a crevice and knocked himself unconscious.

An RAF Sea King from Boulmer, Northumberland was scrambled along with a second rescue team.

They flew the two injured men to Carlisle Hospital. The walker is believed to be suffering from shoulder injuries.

A second Navy helicopter is now on its way to the scene from Prestwick.

An investigation into the accident was immediately launched.

[tecpilot]

Best wishes to the injured!

And sorry, but i don't understand the terms "...fell out of a helicopter..."and "...came out of the helicopter harness..."?

Any further informations available? Does it mean out of a personal harness clipped into the hook of the hoist cable? Or does it mean out of the helicopter door not wearing a personal harness? Or Kong seat, or... ?

Thanks

[snaggletooth]

The MRT member would have been on the end of the hoist-cable in a 'NATO Strop', which goes over the head & sits under the armpits. A toggle is then pulled down to provide a snug fit & prevent the wearer falling out. Unless one put ones arms straight up over ones head it is virtually impossible to 'fall out' of the device. I suspect it was a conscious decision to get out of the strop, although the individual concerned cannot remember much other than feeling a very rapid RoD.

[MaxNg]

Snaggletooth

I remember filming a similar incident some years for a popular TV series here in the UK called "999 rescue" which has remarkable simmularities to the one just reported, it also involved a seaking which had just lowered a doctor down onto a outcrop to a injured climber when it then made blade contact with the adjacent cliff wall, with rock fragments hitting the pilot and cutting his forehead, and to compound thier problems even more as the pilot (now restleing with a badly vibrating helicopter) rolled and dived the a/c away from the cliff face, the doctor on the winch bacame entangled around the tail wheel of the a/c. and as the crew had nowhere to go but into a clearing below and with only seconds to spare it was decided to pickle off the doctor in what would have been a high flare just prior to landing and then "land" just beyond! all this cool thinking whilst flying what must have been something feeling like a pneumatic breaker in a caravan. Thankfully thier (and the medics) luck began to change for the better, and as the crew began the flare the wire untangled from the tail wheel and the medic was winched onboard before the a/c landed.

The crew and a/c were after repaires and I suspect a few whiskies returned to service and I hope are still doing a great job

:ok:

[The Nr Fairy]

snaggletooth:

Is G-BIMU's accident (http://www.dft.gov.uk/stellent/groups/dft_avsafety/documents/page/dft_avsafety_500864.hcsp) the one you were thinking of ?

[snaggletooth]

Nr Fairy,

No, although I was actually involved with clearing up after that accident.

I was referring to the cable-cutter on an aircraft not operating properly because the guillotine had been fitted in-line with the hoist cable, rather than across its length. If memory serves me right that occurred during the SAROp on the MV 'Green Lilly', but I might have confused 2 separate events.

Max Ng

Yes, they certainly had an action-packed day out! Can't remember who the whole crew was, but one of their number recently handed in his issue watch & has just started flying for the CivPol, good luck to him.

[tecpilot]

snaggletooth,

thanks for informations. But i'm a little bit surprised that a professionial rescue team doesn't wear a personal harness, especially a MRT and use a strope?!?! :sad:
I've made a lot of mountain rescues along europe, without UK :ugh: , but never seen a MRT without personal harness. They need the harness not only to hoist up, but self protecting is really important in mountainous area. The "NATO strop" is anything but safe! In the most european countrys you lost you insurance cover immediately if you use such systems. Have seen not long ago a video from the german AF made august 2002. A patient fell out of such a strop and died. Worldwide rotorheads have a wide experience with such extractions and missions. Germany, Austria and Switzerland alone have made in 2003 more than 3000 civil real-mission short haul or hoist extractions. I couldn't believe it, that we have countries in europe using an extraction system from the first days of the chopper time! It's allways possible to have a problem on a real rescue missions like the accident flight. Unfortunately the civ flight operators are much more up to time and missions than the gov flights. Such a personal harness costs round about 80-100€ and you have a black-out safe system.

PATIENT FELL FROM RESCUE STROP, GERMANY: While hoisting an unconscious
woman with a strop (horse collar), the patient fell through the collar. She was killed in
the fall. The German military doesn’t normally perform rescue operations, since there
are numerous civilian rescue helicopters available. However this incident involved a
large emergency response to a flood situation. This type of patient personnel carrying
device is used in a number of operations, and it requires the person to have the strength
to not allow their shoulders to slump through the collar. It is preferable to use a threepoint
diaper arrangement for uninjured patients.

Interested parties should check the IKAR informations like:
2002_Air-Rescue_report.pdf (http://www.ikar-cisa.org/ikar/images/2002_Air-Rescue_report.pdf) or
2003_Air-Rescue_Report.pdf (http://www.ikar-cisa.org/ikar/images/2003_Air-Rescue_Report.pdf)

[Wavewatcher]

Tecpilot:

Do you have any data on hoisting harness manufacturers?

[tecpilot]

I don't want to give special product commandations on such a public forum. Check out the net with the keywords "helicopter rescue, rescue bag, rescue harness", and you will find hundreds of rescue products from different manufacturers in Europe and US. Rescue harnesses, rescue bags, rescue seats. Inform you direct at the producer, insist of a free sample of the product (that's usual on all greater producers) and check it out on your ops and with your customers/partners like MRT and insurancies.
http://www.rescueresponse.com/media/products/rescue/harnesses/harnes5.jpg

[[email protected]]

Amazingly the cable cut won't work on any aircraft unless you hit the correct switch......never mind, at least they would have known what heading they were on in the dark...........ooooops!

Tecpilot - for the sort of lift you describe, a Nato strop is still OK but you should use a second one under the knees so the casualty comes up horizontal. How much time would it take to get every casualty into a 3 point harness (especially if they are unconcious) when a double strop lift can be done in 20 seconds?

[tecpilot]

Sorry, crab

it's absolutely unsafe ! And it's still impossible with an unconcious patient. We have seen the result!
How much time would it take to get every casualty into a 3 point harness (especially if they are unconcious) when a double strop lift can be done in 20 seconds?
I recommend to inform about rescue equipment. A lot of different really safe products are available. It needs not more than 10s to strap a also unconcious patient in a triangle rescue nappy. You have to close only one plug.
http://www.kong.it/products/a873.jpg

a Nato strop is still OK but you should use a second one under the knees so the casualty comes up horizontal
Could it be that we have a new century? Such improvisations be good for nothing for a professional rescue team. And if you maintain that a unconcious patient could be lifted up safe with your "method", i'm irritated, thinking about if you are an experienced rescuer? :confused: What if your patient have broken legs or arms or shoulders? What if he is wet, slipping trough the strope? :bored:

[frankburns]

Techpilot- Mlitary SAR in the Uk have saved thousands of lives by this method. The scenario you speak of, ie: broken bones ecetera is not the way we would recover a casualty. We would use a stretcher and a highline to stabilise the strecher as it was winched to the aircraft. The NATO strop is a very good piece of rescue equipment when used by properly trained crew, which in this case would be the helicopter winchman. The MRT are not involved in placing strops around casualties, it is the responsibity of the winchman. The NATO strop is also well designed for sea rescue where minimum time is spent in the water. I suspect as well as CRAB was trying to say is that the MRT did not accidently fall out of the strop. It is very difficult to do that, unless you want to. I have been in involved in mountain rescue for 25 years, so I am confident of the NATO strop and have never had a problem, and Im not aware of the concerns you have mention in Europe.

[tecpilot]

No problem guys,

it's up to you. You have "have saved thousands of lives by this method". But you have lost some. The others have never lost one. (with that kind of slip off)

At last i couldn't understand why you don't want to see the advantages of the safe systems. Why you would use a system with safety problems if safe systems are available? That kind of equipment doesn't cost the world.

To the german accident. The patient become unconcious and saggy during the 70ft up winch. She was wet. After that the rescuer was able to hold the patient approx. 10s inside the strop with light spinning how usual on hoist ops. Than he lost she. Without rescuer such persons slip immediately out of the strop.

I have seen the military evacuating civil persons in flooding situations with nato strop. Without better equipment they winched up kids 5-8 years in the strop without rescuer. :yuk:

[[email protected]]

Thanks Frank....spot on. Imagine trying to get a cliff-sticker into a 3-point nappy harness!

Tec pilot - I take your point that we are in a new century but why change equipment that works well? If the strop is used properly you can't lose the casualty and, as Frank says, if there are injuries that prevent the use of the strop then we use a stretcher. We have been after a better system for lifting children for years but we still haven't lost any.

[John Eacott]

One observation, the NATO strop is not always standard between operators/nations. The old one that was from early 60's, used to had a loop around the loose ends of the strop, which can/could be pulled down to secure the strop (as described by snaggletooth). Similar strops down here don't always have the loop, leaving the strop quite loose around the survivor. I've given up trying to point out the "simple" solution, but one day someone will find out the hard way.

I also remember the Norwegians raised the issue of having an oversized strop available, for those "large" survivors. Around 1972 they lost a survivor from hypothermia, when it took them too long to get him out of the water because the standard strop was too short for his bulk. Slightly OT, but what the heck.

[Obs cop]

Sad that such a tragic incident can lead to such an interesting thread.

In any case, I find the whole "Nato Strop" arugment slightly bemusing. Members of the Mountain Rescue Teams are highly skilled individuals, but more over have considerable experience with regards to helicopter winching. The likelyhood of one "falling out" of a Nato Strop I find quite laughable frankly as this is a massive slur to their abilities and knowledge. At this time, we do not know enough about the events to draw conclusions, but a cable cut or concious act by the rescuer seem reasonable possibilities. Certainly I would not want to be attached to 21000 lb of whirling metal and fuel which was in an emergency situation.

Tecpilot,

You mentioned problems with the casualty being wet and slipping through the strop. The nato strop does not rely on friction between it and the occupant and so on the occasions I was winched out of the sea, I felt perfectly safe. I never noticed any change in performance of the strop whether I was wet or dry.

Just my thoughts

Obs cop

[keepin it in trim]

Tec pilot

You have made some fairly insulting insinuations about other peoples professional abilities and experience and the equipment they use based only on some fairly sketchy details of one incident.

As has already been mentioned NATO strops come in a variety of forms. Additionally, SAR helicopters in the UK do not only do mountain rescue, around 40% of the task involves over water work, often a considerable distance offshore. The Nato strop in its UK form works well in these circumstances. Indeed it is also used by the Civil SAR operators in the UK, I presume you regard them as professional enough.

There are several thousand SAR missions of all types flown safely each year in the UK using this strop system and a rescue hoist, by highly professional civilian and military crews.

I can only presume you are not familiar with the operating environment, equipment or task in the UK, it would be rather like me passing critical comment on using fixed lines for rescue in the mountains in europe, a system which I am not conversant with but which obviously has its own benefits and risks.

Oh and before you question my professional qualification to comment, as you have with some others, I have been winched many times using this system as a training survivor in both overland and overwater operations. I have also flown several thousand hours as an SAR Captain, both day and night, on SAR operations over the UK and its surrounding waters.

I apologise if my comments seem rather forceful but I believe you are commenting unfairly and without sufficient understanding of the operating environment or task in the UK.

[tecpilot]

Don't sweet keepin it in trim,

couldn't read "fairly insulting insinuations about other peoples professional abilities and experience".

This thread is developing inbound equipment.

for the sort of lift you describe, a Nato strop is still OK but you should use a second one under the knees so the casualty comes up horizontal

in the described case it wasn't "OK". That's without a question if you look at the result. It's easy to say "we have made thousends of missions with the strope, but in this case, it was only misfortune". That's not the way to step forward.
The likelyhood of one "falling out" of a Nato Strop I find quite laughable frankly as this is a massive slur to their abilities and knowledge.
That's absolutely right, but... if a MRT becomes unconcious, due to a strike during the hoist ops with trees or rocks, (rockfall induced by the downwash), or the helicopters takes a strong movement and reaction due to weather or technical problems, it could be possible to lost the MRT with a strop, not with other equipment.
I have no great experience in sea rescue but it wasn't part of the thread ("a MRT falls from a helicopter"). But i'm experienced in use of the NATO-strope both pilot and "load". And i'm in deep respect to all the SAR Crews and their daily work and experience.

[snaggletooth]

TecPilot,

The incident you describe with the unconscious lady falling from the strop simply wouldn't happen here due to the way we operate.

You stated that she lost consciousness on the way up to the a/c & was wet. I suspect that she lost consciousness due to Post Immersion Collapse, something we prevent by placing a second strop under the knees, thereby lifting the casualty in a horizontal position & avoiding the problem altogether.

Furthermore, unlike the scenario you describe, the casualty would be placed in the strops by a winchman/aircrewman. He would then accompany the casualty during the lift to the aircraft. Were any problem to develop the winchman can easily tighten the strops around the casualty, or use a physical grip. After 9 years as a Winchman and thousands of lifts, from both mountainous & maritime environments, I have not experienced even ONE problem with this tried, tested & reliable piece of equipment. Believe me, if we found a problem we would amend our SOPs.

Your comments are unfounded Sir, though I accept well intentioned. It is always useful to see how other agencies & nationalities operate to achieve the same end. However one only has to look at the huge diversity of SOPs adopted to realize there are many ways to 'skin the cat'


No one can know for sure yet, but it is likely that the injured MRT member was either only partially in the strop (i.e. on the ground taking the strop off) and was pulled off the side of the hill by the a/cs unscheduled & sporty departure, or he made a conscious decision to get out of the strop & accept a fall rather than accompany the a/c and suffer even more serious injuries.

Anyone know how the injured party is doing? Last I heard he'd been transferred to Manchester.

I have the Honour to be, Sir,

Yadayadayadayada...

[Obs cop]

Well put Snaggletooth.:cool:

[tecpilot]

Were any problem to develop the winchman can easily tighten the strops around the casualty, or use a physical grip
That's the problem in the described german accident. Unexperienced crewman tried to catch the unconscious and slipping lady by her arms, instead putting her arms down securing the strop. A human error of course, but may be avoidable with a rescue nappy.

[Obs cop]

Bringing human error into the circumstances opens a whole new arena. No piece of equipment is idiot-proof as no matter what piece of kit is on the end of the winch cable, it will only ever be as good as the person working it.

Any means of attaching a person to a cable and winching them to an aircraft is hazardous. Granted, different methods have different advantages and disadvantages, but no matter how well you design something, someone somewhere will get it wrong. That does not always mean the equipment is the link in the chain that was at fault.

IMHO the more complicated you make things, the greater the likelyhood something will ruin the day. The biggest single advantage of the Nato Strop is its simplicity of use.

Obs cop

[snaggletooth]

Obs cop,

You sound like a fellow advocate of the KISS principle :)

I know I can foook up in spades, so I like 'simple'.

But you're right; someone, someday, somewhere, somehow will make a porcine aural organ of even the simplest thing...

[Obs cop]

Snaggletooth,

I believe in 2 main things;

1. KISS
2. If something bads gonna happen, it's gonna happen when I'm doing it:{

Just my opinion but there we are.

Obs cop

[sargod]

To put the story straight the MRT member was on top of the rock outcrop as the tip strike occured, he attempted to get out of the strop but was pulled/lost his balance and fell 40ft, the cab then auto'd 1500ft to the valley floor.