Redundancy payout to be announced in July?

[OKOC]

Rumour has it that the Powers That Be are working on the eighth working of the draft idea that we will see the RAF reduced to 42,000 in July with redundancy payoffs ranging from £100k-£250k (rank dependent of course).

Has anyone any more gen?:sad:

[JessTheDog]

I've heard 37,000 to be announced very soon. I've also heard there will be no redundancues for the already-announced minor basing unit study closures. The powers-that-be probably believe that if people are f:mad: ed around they will PVR anyway.

[Audax]

Redundancy payments? Don't think so; after all we are still paying people to stay in, can you see Blair et al also paying people to leave?

[November4]

Can't see it

Had a brief from the drafters on Fri.

Yes the RAF is going to get smaller but without reduncies as it is too expensive. If, as quoted above, £100k per man min then 15,000 reduction will be in the order of £1.5 BILLION+ ... and that is just for the RAF.

The MOD is how much over budget?

[sarboy w****r]

As far as I know, the end of the current parliamentary session is Jul 21. The traditional means of burying bad news is to announce it at the end of the summer session, so as not to have to discuss it until after the summer recess. Therefore, we should expect to see an announcement of the future structure of the British military at about this time (my money is on Jul 19-20, so as to ensure that there is sufficient parliamentary time to make the announcements).

I have heard (from someone who I believe to be a reasonably reliable source), that there is no money for redundancy payments at all. There certainly will be no payments of the kind made during the last round of redundancies (18 months' pay and immediate pension). Talk of £100k-250k is pure fantasy/wishful thinking (if you want that sort of money, go buy a scratchcard).

The source said that if there had to be forced redundancies, the absolute legal minimum would be paid (and if the RAF could give you 1 month's pay, it would). If one applies the Employment Rights Act 1996 (and in particular, sections 191-192 - Crown Servants/Military personnel), then it would suggest that as a minimum you would have to receive 1 month's pay for every year served. The issue is complicated/compounded by the fact that Officers (not NCOs, it's not the case for them) have no legal right to resign. Officers serve under the Royal Perogative, and when the Queen (read Blair) says you are no longer needed, then your time's up son, off you go. So there is no contract for the RAF to break by firing you. It does still offer the possibility of a legal challenge on the basis that if they want to get rid of you with 1 month's notice, why do we have to give 12 month's notice when we PVR...?

Personally, I think forced redundancies are unlikely, in the main. The RAF can hardly shrink to 37-38 000 overnight, so any planned restructuring will take several years to achieve (and I think we'll probably go to about 43 000). I reckon most of the downsizing could be achieved by:

a. Not re-engaging most personnel when they would normally be allowed to do so.

b. Not allowing transfer from Short Service Commissions to PCs.

c. Not assimilating people at their 38/16 point, and cutting most further additions to the PA spine to an absolute trickle. (And don't expect further offers of FRIs...)

d. Allowing people to leave under PVR without having to wait the normal waiting period.

As for who is likely to go? Anyone in a job that could possibly be contractorised or made Joint. So, Admin Sec (new Joint Personnel Agency coming in), Supply, many Eng personnel etc may go.

If Jaguar/Nimrod/Harrier/add-scare-story-here go, then there will be a large number of aircrew looking for cockpits. So rather than make them redundant, offer them staff/holding/desk jobs whilst they wait for an OCU place on different aircraft to become available (possibly several years). Most people will then PVR, so any redundancy money that would be paid on redundancy would no longer be necessary, and see sub para d above...

Call me a cynic, but I think that is how the cuts will be managed...

SBW

[JessTheDog]

This could have significant implications for terms and conditions of service.

If ERA 96 is used for setting a minimum redundancy payout, its applicability could be extended to PVR wait times through legal action and test cases. If the "F:mad:-around Factor" is used to force PVRs, then we could see many redresses and legal actions. Interestingly, complaints are now allowed to employment tribunals on the grounds of breaches of the Working Time Directive - latest QR amendment.

I think that relationships between MOD and us blue-suiters are going to become very strained over the next couple of years. Watch for people dumping their kit at the gate and walking, with the parting shot of "See you in Strasbourg" rather than endure the PVR wait time.

Interestingly, MOD is only employer to boast about the limits of the "duty of care" principle - see the MOD Legal Advisor's page! Bunch of gits but, until we can comment directly in public on our terms of service, they will continue to walk over us.

Final gripe is that this could cause problems with the reserves - if reservists are used at the tempo they are used at now in future, they will leave the reserve or refuse to answer call outs.

[Down 4 Reprogram]

SBW

Agree with most of the comments you make, however, where did you find the minimum payment to be one month's pay per year served? - I couldn't find anything in ERA96 Section 192-193 to suggest this. Section 162 gives the standard payments as:

half weeks pay per year upto age 22.

one weeks pay per year from 22 to 41.

one and a half weeks pay over 41.

(However, note that there is a maximum recompense for 20 years service - over this doesn't count)

D4R

[Impiger]

I met a bloke on the bus who assured me ze final solution would be circa 41,000 down 7,000 from the planned strength - yes there was already a graceful decay planned from today's 53,000ish to 48,000ish. He bet his bus-pass that there wouldn't be any redundancy scheme! He also said the RN would struggle to stay above 30,000. He was talking about trained strength of course.

:hmm:

[Bigtop]

The rumours abound on the streets that the reduction in nos in both RAF and RN (FAA) will not be funded by redundancy payouts, in management speak they will be a 'no cost initiative'.

To reduce nos at no cost follow these guidelines:

1. Reduce no of aircraft.
2. Produces surplus no of aircrew.
3. Surplus aircrew assume they will get to fly a desk until its their turn again.
4. Remove Flying Pay from equation (further cost savings measure) for those not in the cockpit.
5. Large nos get pissed off and leave.
6. No cost eduction in manpower achieved.

Is this a rumour or is there smoke with a fire about to erupt as the Parliament recesses for summer. Lets be realistic, for the RN, LSSB (Sea pay) is going and will only be paid when a unit is actually at sea and not when the ship is alongside in a port. So why not apply the same logic to Flying Pay. As for retention incentives, who says they will remain after the next round of the APPRB??

[sarboy w****r]

D4R

S191-193 (from memory) deal with Crown Servants and military personnel, and which parts of the ERA 1996 apply to them (not a lot really, hence why we have so few rights at employment tribunals etc).

I think the 1 month per year is somewhere in European law, but I'm not sure whether the UK has incorporated it into UK statute yet.

But as forced redundancies are pretty unlikely, I think the issue is of academic interest only.

SBW

[CatpainCaveman]

Down 4 Reprogram

If I recall, a friend of mine left the army last year to become a lawyer. They said exactly the same thing to her having already quoted her a minimum 12 month PVR wait.

Said person, planning to be a lawyer, got her head in the books and found some Euro ruling that siad you only had to give a period of notice that equated to the timescale you were paid over - ie paid monthly, give one months notice, paid weekly, give one weeks notice etc.

She challenged her 12 month pvr wait on these grounds, and funny old thing, their landships caved in; not quite an exit the following month, but not much longer than that.

[Down 4 Reprogram]

CC

I agree that the 'notice period = pay period' case would be very interesting for those who find a job and need to get out quickly. Rumour has it that it has been used as an escape tunnel before, and MOD don't want to see a test case brought in case they lose (then just watch the floodgates open!)

SBW

I can't see the Treasury beancounters using unadopted EU legislation when they have perfectly good UK legislation available in the form of ERA96 - especially as the UK rules give a quarter of the payout.

Although I agree that some of any reductions would be produced by what industry calls "natural wastage", i.e. not offering extensions of service etc, I think there will be a strong case for the beancounters to used redundancy for 2 reasons:

1. Applying ERA96 would mean that most people would only get £10-15k redundancy money (and many airmen much less). As a result the mass redundancy option is cheap - 3000 job losses for only £45M - or put it another way the cost of one Typhoon.

2. There will probably be a number of base closures involved in the future plans. When a base closes it releases a large block of personnel - admin, ATC, engineers, cooks bottle washers etc as well as aircrew - all in one go. Some of these people will be used to fill shortfalls at other units, but inevitably there won't be enough established posts around to fill - hence redundancy for some unfortunates.

D4R

[vega15m]

CC

Would be very interested to know just how the PVR reduction was achieved. Please check your PM's.

Vega15m

[Vage Rot]

Also by employment law - and I'll find the section again if it kills me!

Your employer is obliged to grant you reasonible time off for interviews when you are looking for another job. Interesting in Basra!!!

The law works 2 ways - I've never been a 'barrack room lawyer' but then the loyalty that has always been demanded does not seem to be a 2 way street.

- Sorry boss, cant go to war 'cos my ears won't go pop!

[Argus]

RN down to below 30,000. This is serious stuff!

In the halcyon days of the 60s, it was around 73,000 - and the cr*bs weighed in at close to 100,000.

I recollect a joke told by a comedian in a den of ill repute in Manchester, frequented by various aircrew members of HM Forces who had attended a particular grammar school on Merseyside. With acknowledgement to Les Dawson:

"Once England was a kingdom, ruled by kings. Then it became an empire, ruled by emperors. Now it's just a country ruled by Tony Blair"!

[Hueymeister]

From what we were told by the AFBLT there are no less than 8 separate working groups tasked to work in isolation from one another on this..should produce some interesting results....sometime in late June..I do hope the papers are reading this..esp if we are 'royally shafted'. i.e "Heroes of Basra come home to the Boot!"

[SlopJockey]

Well at least that keeps another 8 airships in a "job" for a while.

Fecking Oxygen thieves.

Slopjockey

[the_grand_dad]

You watch the little tikes will try this with the RAF next

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=%2Fnews%2F2002%2F07%2F29%2Fnsquad29.xml

A very cost effetive way for the MOD of making redundancys

http://pages.123-reg.co.uk/eve3-37327/exparachuteregimentwebsite/id118.html

[OKOC]

So, what next folks.

5000+ more Brits into IIIIraq (after the MEP O2 thieves election has finished naturally, we don't want to upset our European "friends" after all) and then in July 10,000, give or take a few either way, booted out of the RAF just before the Parliamentary recess (to avoid the ensuing Flak carrying over into the Commons).

What a bunch of c:mad: ts we work for. Rock on, fcuk me who is there to defend us the f?:mad: ing workers on the shop floor?

Does no-one above Wg Cdr realise just how bad this problem is, but hey, why should I give a shot, I'm off. But to be honest I am sad that our blokes who I know are the very best in the world, are just about to be shafted by HMG with the Min redundancy payout possible re-assured by a smile from blair naturally.

Bye Y'all, see ya in Oz, I've had enough of the lies.

[polyglory]

Very sad , but true OKOC,

Enjoy Oz and Good luck:D

[Argus]

What makes you think it's any different here?

[Ali Barber]

Heard about one of the options being considered last night. When they close the Jags down it will leave about 60 pilots that can't be put back in the system so they will be ofered the chance of re-roling to one of the branches that is short of manpower - like Admin.

The fact that I heard it in the pub may take away some of the credence to this story!

[TheWelshOne]

Will that be a single or a twin seat desk then..........

[JessTheDog]

And these are the chisellers that want us to sign up to the reserves when we leave?

B:mad: ks to that, I'm having nothing to do with this wretched lot ever again.

[Hueymeister]

The exodus from Colt has already started judging by the numbers of Jag mates pitching up to AFNORTH recently!

[QE4]

SBW, D4R

Just reading your discussion about whos rules to use to calculate redundancy payouts. Don't know if you guys are aware but if (and its a very big if) there are any redundancies then one would hope the RAF would use the QRs for the Royal Air Farce.

In said QRs there are very clear rates of payment for redundancy. Its a reducing scale, but if you still have 5 years to serve the payout is 1 1/2 years salery (plus any IPP already due of course).

Unfortunatly I cannot find any QRs to quote the number from but believe me its there. Will supply the reference and post a copy of it in due course if anyone is interested.

You aint seen me right.

Just found it.

Chapter 44

QR3170-3175

Here is an extract, the airmens rates are essesentially the same.

REDUNDANCY - COMPENSATION TERMS


SECTION 1 - GENERAL CONDITIONS



3170. Sponsor:SPP(Pens)

(1) Compensation for early retirement or redundancy will be payable in the circumstances specified in para 3170A.

(2) Compensation will take the form of a tax free lump sum payment known as a Special Capital Payment. The amount of the Special Capital Payment is to be calculated in accordance with paragraphs 3171 to 3174.

(3) Qualifying Service means full pay service from age 18. Reckonable Service means full pay service from age 18 for servicemen and age 21 for officers, whilst a member of the AFPS. Additionally, for the purposes of calculating the rate of pension and terminal grant, notional years of service which have been bought under the Purchase of Added Years Scheme and actual service brought into the AFPS by way of a Transfer Value may be included as reckonable, but not qualifying. Contracted out service means full pay service during which contracted out rates of National Insurance contributions were paid.

3170A

(1) An officer of the rank of Air Commodore or above may be awarded a special capital payment if on or after 18 July 2001 he is called upon to retire under paragraph 2905(4) before his normal retirement date. For these purposes, a person\'s normal retirement date is the date to which he was conditioned to serve immediately before he was called upon to retire under paragraph 2905(4).

(2) Without prejudice to clause (1), compensation will be payable in the form of a special capital payment where an officer or serviceman is made redundant under a redundancy programme declared by the Defence Council. Instructions will be issued as and when necessary on the scope of the redundancy programme, the selection procedures and the extent to which application may be made for premature release on redundancy terms.

SECTION 2 - OFFICERS SERVING ON PERMANENT COMMISSIONS



3171. Special Capital Payments. Sponsor:SPP(Pens)

(1) Subject to paragraph 3171A, the amount of the special capital payment will be equivalent to a number of months pay as follows:

(a) Officers with at least 13 years qualifying service:



Uncompleted portion of career Special capital payment (Note 1)

Years to normal retiring age / Months pay

5 or more / 18

4 / 15

3 / 11

2 / 7

1 / 3



Of course there are special arrangements for the 1150 Air Officers that we currently have in the RAF.

You aint seen me right

[polyglory]

A very bloated top cover of air officers, a fair chunk of them would not be missed I'm sure.:E

[Hueymeister]

Now That'll be basic pay, right? Or could I count my flying pay too? Me thinks two hopes..and they're both dead!

[Vage Rot]

PAS mate - so Flying Pay and Basic all one lump - Oh how he chortled with delight!

[Hueymeister]

Roight..that excludes you older farts from possible redundancy then?!?

[Down 4 Reprogram]

Aahhh, but try thinking like a treasury bod…..

1. Make 33 year old aircrew redundant:

Cost = 18 months pay at £35k pa = £52,500
Saving = £35k for 5 years (until IPP) = £175,000
Net saving = £122,500

2. Make 40 year old PAS aircrew redundant:

Cost = 18 months pay at £50k pa = £75,000
Saving = £50k for 15 years (ignoring pay increases) = £750,000
Net saving = £675,000

Now which to choose …. Oh bu@@er!

Bottom line is - it's the skills that you have (or don't) that will decide how useful (or not) you are.

D4R

[Vage Rot]

Now Now chaps, here we are talking about long term savings over 15 years when we can't even carry budget surplus over from one year to the next!

Don't forget that making post age 38 redundant incurs immediate pension and gratuity on top of the settlement - might make the short term costs prohibitive. On the other hand, 33 year old sprog gets nowt until he's 55.

Bu99er - indeed, with a size 12 cricket bat!

[Hueymeister]

Vage, not quite..those 33 yr old sprogs are entitled to the redundancy + pension..someone like moi would get 7/8ths of my pension at age 35, having done 14 years of my 'time' post 21.

HM

[SirToppamHat]

As a member of several of the OR Redundancy Boards last time round, you may be interested to know that ACRs were a key factor in determining who went.

Assuming aircrew boards will work in similar fashion this time round, I suggest the following:

1. Volunteers will go first. If there are 50 places and 100 volunteers, then there will be no involuntary redundancies.

2. Next, the board will first look for specialists with rare/important qualifications that make them more valuable. We were given a list of qualifications to look for, and the pile was divided accordingly. Some strange things came out of this ... the quals we looked for were directed by PMA; the Regiment, for example, wanted to retain Rapier FSB instructors because most of them had converted to FSC ... there were only a few FSC instructors left, so FSBs were retained because of the shortage (even though FSB was going out of service).

3. Next, the non-specialists will be placed in strict order of ability based on their last 4 ACRs. In essence, we conducted a promotions board, except that, on completion, the list was reversed, so that the 'worst' candidates would be the first to go!

4. Finally, we went through both piles to examine personal circumstances, based mainly on letters of application, occasionally with support from commanders, and referring back to ACRs where appropriate. Special cases (including some with special quals) were then slotted into the pile according to their merits.

At the end of the day, I felt the process was extremely fair but mainly done to the best interests of the Service. The way personal circumstances were taken into account was very welcome.

The other thing to remember of course, is that when your mate gets it and you don't, it's probably because the Service thinks less of you than him/her, so crack on with appropriate banter!!

[Down 4 Reprogram]

Vage Rot

"Don't forget that making post age 38 redundant incurs immediate pension and gratuity on top of the settlement - might make the short term costs prohibitive. On the other hand, 33 year old sprog gets nowt until he's 55."

Immediate pension I can understand (although I'm not sure how PAS affects this). However, out of interest where did you get the gratuity bit from?

Also I'm not trying to point fingers at different ages, it's just that in previous redundancy pushes it has been the more senior of us that have been targeted. This time I can see that the axe could also fall on the mid-30's bulge (in Binnsworth speak) as well. As I said in my last post, IMHO it will be what you can offer the Service in terms of useable skills that will determine how likely a target you are rather than just seniority.

STH

Was writing this post at the same time as yours, and agree your comments completely. Although I seem to remember last time that it felt guiling to see some of the worst paid large amounts of money to leave, whilst those who remained had to work even harder.


D4R

[SirToppamHat]

D4R

Whichever of us remain will have to work even harder ... whoever goes!

Also, I want to reiterate the point that I was dealing with other ranks, and not aircrew. Although the same principles should apply, I think it is probably true to say that the range of remuneration is much greater within a particular aircrew specialisation than within a trade group. This makes use of cost an attractive discriminator from a bean counter perspective.

Also, the comments made by previous posters do not take into account things like BSA. As this is worth as much as £36,180 PA to someone with 3 teenagers, you have to wonder whether such things become a factor if the bean counters get involved.

That said, I suspect the methods used to select people for redundancy may well be laid down in regs.

Ho hum!

STH

[Vage Rot]

D4R

O's qualify for immediate pension and gratuity (3 x Pension) at the 16/38 point if on a Permanent Commission. Hence they have already qualified fo pension and gratuity become payable on discharge.

Good to see STH post on how it's done but as you say, those left just have to work harder. That said - we carry some people anyway!

[Always_broken_in_wilts]

Bearing in mind how thin on the ground we are I can't see NCA featuring in this equation:} ...........which is feckin sad as with the right package most of us would be off tomorrow:ok:...........apart from the malingering long term sick feckers who are causing no end of heartache at the coal face :mad: :mad: who are bound to stay as it's EASY MONEY!!


all spelling mistakes are "df" alcohol induced

[Dukeyboy]

Chaps,
Looking for a little advice here. Just chopped from Linton, staring down the barrel of re-selection. What do you think the chances are of getting a pat on the back followed by a boot up the ar$e?
Cynicism, Rumour and pure conjecture more than welcome!

Thanks

[Biggus]

High

The RAF doesn't owe anyone a living, and never has! In previous times of pilot surplus some guys who have been chopped off fast jet OCUs have become 'Mr' quite quickly afterwards. The RAF has been wasting talent (and taxpayers money) for years, I see no reason why it should change now!

[rej]

STH

Sorry to be so pickey but ....

"Also, I want to reiterate the point that I was dealing with other ranks, and not aircrew."

So when is a Wg Cdr, Sqn Ldr, Flt Lt etc not a Wg Cdr, Sqn Ldr, Flt Lt ect - obviously when they don't wear a brevet.

[SirToppamHat]

Rej

I was dealing with non-aircrew of the rank up to and including (if memory serves) the rank of sgt.

I think you may have misconstrued what I said. I was not trying to make any point whatsoever in terms of aircrew vs non-aircrew.

However, now that you mention it, it is clear that different terms of service apply to many aircrew when compared with non-aircrew at all ranks. It may be (I don't know) that any redundancy boards which do sit, work to a different set of guidelines than we were faced with.

STH

[HOODED]

STH.... I think you'll find it went up at least to Chf Tech level as in the place where I worked all 8 Chf Techs applied to go but not one got it! They all got nice letters telling them how invaluable they were! If I remember right a year later 5 of the 8 had gone anyway! So here's where they win every time - p*ss the blokes off enough for a few years then offer em a non existant redundancy package and they'll go anyway! Don't get your hopes up theres no cash to pay for it!

[desert_ranger]

Its a sad fact, but with all the pressures the govt. are puttin on us and the threat of more deployment and Fresco II, most NCA would walk tomorrow. a lot of us are becomming increasingly dissolutioned with the hierachy and have no faith in them, so it would appear the policy of "piss them off and they will f**k off" seems to be working. A sad day, as we all love our work, but we never signed up to be exploited.

[the_grand_dad]

The Pongos was having the same problem, until it was exposed that the policy was being abused to cut costs

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=%2Fnews%2F2002%2F07%2F29%2Fnsquad29.xml

Comments welcome on the site

http://www.dream-tool.com/tools/messages.mv?index+brownenvelope


Mark Doyle, 40, from Buckley, north Wales, was a vehicle mechanic in the Royal Electrical and Mechanical Engineers based at Aldershot, Hants.



He joined the Army in 1987 and three years later was sent to Saudi Arabia to take part in the 1991 Gulf war. After his unit returned to the UK he failed his fitness test.

"I had always run the test very easily, but this time I collapsed with breathing difficulties," he said. "The instructor thought I had had a heart attack."

He was taken to hospitals for tests and diagnosed with chronic sinusitis. "I was put on light duties and two years later I was discharged. They brown enveloped me."

The expression "brown enveloped" refers to the process whereby soldiers learn that they are to be manning controlled when they are handed a letter warning them that they are to be discharged.

Despite the diagnosis, and the MoD's denial that Gulf War Syndrome exists, it was given as the reason for his discharge papers. He developed brain damage, arthritis and chronic fatigue. Hospital tests showed he had frontal lobe damage caused by neuro-toxin damage.

For a while, Mr Doyle attempted to fight for compensation but now lives as quietly as possible with his wife in north Wales. "At the end of the day I decided to give up and go home and die in my own time."

[fin1012]

Any update for those of us OOA on when things are going to be announced?

[JessTheDog]

I have heard that a number between 37K-41K will be announced some time before the summer recess - probably just before, in true weasel political style. Apparently most of the reductions will be TG1 and 2, with a lot of admin going when JPA happens. Also heard that Jag will definitely go.

[OKOC]

What do you reckon then chaps--another 2 weeks I reckon before the redundancy s:mad: t hit the streets! Don't forget to turn out the lights Gordon. Vote UKIP!

[allan907]

As someone who left in May 93 after 30 years this thread - and others in a similar vein - depress me enormously. I just hope that those that are left in this New Labour utopian dream (nightmare?) world are still able to instil a sense of national pride in the rest of us. While we 'old and crusty' may rant on about the declining personal standards etc etc - when it comes to the crunch the young men and women still manage to step up to the crease.

How much of that ethos will be knocked into touch with the latest morale busting tactics?

[TAC2]

I know we are speculating about possible numbers here but the USAF are looking to reduce their manning by 22500 by 2005. If they are reducing numbers by this amount then what can we expect?
Look forward to any announcement, whether they will announce anything in July or just continue to delay and get people more p***ed off so that they leave anyway.:uhoh:

[JessTheDog]

If the USAF are reducing their numbers, I wonder which way the "special relationship" will work in future? The White Paper states that there is little likelihood of UK PLC fighting independently of the Americans. Another decade of being Dubya's (and his successor's) bitch with no reciprocation!

[Down 4 Reprogram]

Gordon has just said that the results of the Spending Review will be announced on 12 July - so standby for the battering to begin shortly afterward.

D4R

[OKOC]

Alan,

If this thread "depresses you enormously", my top tip is not to bother reading it.

It clearly is of topical interest (look at the number of hits and replies).

PS Loyalty WAS a 2 way street when you left (I think), I'm not that convinced it is now, and it takes two to tango.;)

[L J R]

OK,


Excellent observation on the issue of Loyalty. But never forget that you are just a small pawn in the corporation's 'Big Scheme'..Unfortuately, as with most modern corporations, human resourcing is a small sub-section of the corporate 'Big Brother'. But unlike civillian corporations, the UK military, and indeed any other military organisation, is unable to effectively 'target' its 'high fliers' - or valuable human assets, nor does it have the ability to seduce retention with adequate packages or negotiations.






....and apologies for spelling... But you get the idea.....



.

[Open Sauce]

Anyone mind if I plug this website:

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/index.html

It's not mine.

[OKOC]

So, the 16th of July it is then.

The Commons goes on its hols immediately afterwards to let the flack die down hopefully before they come back months later when all is forgotton and some other crisis "hides" the bad news!

Surely they aren't scared of the immediate reaction are they?

[outlaw51]

I have it on pretty good authority(from within MoD) that next week's announcement, if any, will be strictly broad-brush. The detailed bad news is being saved for September, when the threat or reality of a fire brigades' strike and its manpower implications for the services will have passed.

[OKOC]

Outlaw--you were just about spot on!

[pr00ne]

OKOC,

No he wasn't!

[OKOC]

Has anyone any idea who is going to be made redundant from the RAF in the coming weeks? Will it be a mix of compulsary & voluntary or ageist or what?

[HOODED]

Mainly our overstreched engineers and some adminers as I understand it. Voulentary first in the order of 1500 the other 6000 going due natural wastage and not signing people on. I think they are hoping the PVR rate will increase too due to overstreching the overstrech.
My guess is it will be probably oversubscribed like the last redundancy package was. They'll then struggle, as those not selected for redundancy start to PVR anyway, to keep the numbers up to the new planned strength. Or maybe they've allready factored this in to their estimate of 1500 only required through redundancy.
We will undoubtedly find out in time for our Christmas away from our families again.:ok:

[Axial Flo]

What about the excess of multi engine pilots at the moment (I think Beagle mentioned it was about 70 or so)? Can I look forward to receiving a nice fat redundancy payout while I am still commited to serve after taking the aircrew retention incentive?

The airline market seems to be improving. For once, purely by coincidence of course, the men with lots of braid and no b****cks have got the redundancy timing about right.

Stand by for the stampede. :D

Flo

[BEagle]

'twas not I who quoted any numbers! Am comfy civvie filth without respirator or DPM nowadays (such a shame....), so have no idea of the current sitch.

[Axial Flo]

Sorry BEagle, my knackered old PAS memory must be failing. You are quite correct - 'twas not you but in fact MrBernoulli who mentioned the 70+ ME pilot figure in the recent assimilation thread.

Flo

[MrBernoulli]

Axial Flo

Yes, that is correct. Have a look at the ASSIMILATION - NO CHANCE thread for a little more info.

[Appo]

CinC Strike paid my unit a visit some weeks ago now and told us that the news regarding redundancies would be promulgated before the end of September - he told us that he felt it important that those who could be affected knew as early as possible. One of my colleagues was speaking to his poster last Friday who confirmed that this was the directive and that those involved in the work strand had an end of September deadline.

So I suppose we should find out this week...???

[BEagle]

".....those involved in the work strand..."

Is that Management Newspeak for "..those being kept dangling on the end of a string....."?

[Appo]

"...those involved in the work strand..."

No...I meant those doing the study and producing the recommendations that will underpin the outcome for those who are dangling.

Is the degree by which one is left dangling proportional to the angle of one's dangle :ooh:

[JessTheDog]

".....those involved in the work strand..."

Is that Management Newspeak for "..those being kept dangling on the end of a string....."?


Or is that Management Newspeak for those who should be strung up?

[Appo]

Hmmm...

I suppose that depends on whether the decisions they make are agreeable or not...I know what I want to hear:ok: But what suits me won't suit everyone:\

[Lord Trenchards Brat]

APPO

One of my colleagues was speaking to his poster last Friday who confirmed that this was the directive and that those involved in the work strand had an end of September deadline.

How naive!

No year was mentioned 2004, 2005, 2006..............

If you are like me Ive sorted my life out and will not be hanging on for a redundancy "windfall". Lets face it, the goalposts will be changed/moved as presently detailed in the AP by the bean counters, before they make the final numbers decision.

[Appo]

Lord Trenchards Brat

"Lets face it, the goalposts will be changed/moved..."

I am utterly shocked by your apparent lack of trust!

BTW RAF News reported today that confirmation of the redundancy programme should be completed by the end of November...

[Always_broken_in_wilts]

Prayers today quoted from on high 2700 ish.....but likely to be no redundancy package............just your cards then you can sling your hook:mad:

Don't you just love bean counters:}

all spelling mistakes are "df" alcohol induced

[brit bus driver]

Different to the gen we're receiving here then.......if you can call the rumour mill gen! 18 months pay, plus your gratuity etc etc...is the word on this particular street.

[Impiger]

Brit Bus Driver looks closest to the truth from what I've picked up. Those terms are similar or the same as last tme and I have also heard the 2700 figure bandied about. Mainly TG 1 & 2 but some officer corps posts right up to star rank. As always the age range of the target audience will be closely controlled.

[The Gorilla]

Right up to, but not including Star Rank me thinks!!

:p

[Mightycrewseven]

Gents/Ladies

Please click on the link to see attached the advanced copy of the Redundancy DCI.

Looks like we are in for a shafting on the redundancy.

Para 3 states that although they are looking for volunteers it may be necessary to reject some applicants, whilst selecting non-applicants for compulsory redundancy.

The redundancy completion date will be 31 Mar 2008, however, all those personnel that have their exit date before then will not even be considered for redundancy.

I am still trawling through this massive document and will put any further information of interest on this forum.

http://www.raf.r.mil.uk/live/General/Redundancy%20DCI%20Final.doc

M7 sends:(

[Radar Muppet]

Thanks M7 but I don't think we can the access raf.r website as it is an intranet site. Can you tell us how or download the interesting bits?

[Mightycrewseven]

It's a 23 page document so I will post a new thread with some of the relevant information and tables.

M7