Aeromadrid

[Daniel_109]

Can anyone tell me how much Aeromadrid charge for their ATPL course??? and could you tell me what their training is like?? Also if you have any info on Aerofan that would also be helpful!!
Cheers
Danny:ok:

[eolas]

Hi Daniel,

Aeromadrid is an excellent FTO in Madrid its a very large school employs a staff of 200 people. Its a very professional set up an excellent facility and has the biggest A320 Sim. I believe in Europe. I spent a day in Aeromadrid all tuition is through english and they have students from all over europe.

I spoke with students while there you get the best infomation when you do this they all spoke highly of the school. Cost for an integrated including accommodation is €74 K that includes 15 hours on the A320 sim as part of your MCC.

Cost of flights from Dublin to Madrid you can get for €170 return. They also offer Spanish classes.

I spent several days at Aerofan not as big as Aeromadrid and I found it equally as good and more friendly. Cost of course similar to Aeromadrid is €48 K at Aerofan. Accommodation is not included.

Madrid is a great city lots to see and do and public transport is excellent.


Have a look at my posting " Wannabes forming ATPL syndicate " posted lst month.


Hope this is of help !


Eolas

Dublin

[BillieBob]

Yet more marketing hype from eolas. How long do Aeromadrid take to complete the integrated ATPL course these days? Anything over 56 weeks is unreasonable.

Just to put things in perspective -

There's nothing special about the sim, I've flown it a few times. It's a Level D A320, just like every other Level D A320 in Europe (and elsewhere for that matter). As a matter of fact, it's actually owned by GECAT and operated by Aeromadrid under contract. There is also considerable doubt among training professionals whether it is really advantageous to do a MCC course on an advanced jet aeroplane.

Consider also that you will have to sit exams set directly from the Central Question Bank - the CAA employs two full-time experts whose main task is to translate the raw CQB questions into understandable English before including them in UK set exams.

Finally, if you take this route Spain will be your 'State of Licence Issue'. Nothing wrong with that except that all subsequent ratings and renewals will have to be handled by the DGAC in Madrid unless and until you formally change the state of licence issue. It's not difficult to do but it's extra expense and hassle.

If you go to Aeromadrid or Aerofan you will get the same licence and ratings as you would at any other JAA approved school. There's nothing inherently wrong with either organisation but you need to know allthe facts before making a decision.

[Blinkz]

being a spanish school, does it teach in english or spanish?

[Daniel_109]

as far as i know they teach in both!

[OPEN DES]

they teach in both languages. i am in the first english class and about to finish the course. the course lasts about 18 months, including lots of holidays. i am very happy here, and am not connected to the marketing in any way. :ok:

eolas: correction: you get 30 hours on the 320 sim during the MCC

as well as 32 hrs on a b200 FNPT2 (MCC/LOFT)
20 hrs on a b1900c FNPT1 (MCC/LOFT)
16 hrs on a PA-34 FNPT2
43 hrs ATC-810 (basic twin IFR)

i have found this to be very useful for obvious reasons. if you have any questions you can email or pm me.

[Odlix]

Billibob said:
There's nothing special about the sim, I've flown it a few times. It's a Level D A320, just like every other Level D A320 in Europe (and elsewhere for that matter). As a matter of fact, it's actually owned by GECAT and operated by Aeromadrid under contract. There is also considerable doubt among training professionals whether it is really advantageous to do a MCC course on an advanced jet aeroplane.

I have to disagree. Everything is special about the simulator being available for ATPL students. How many schools d'you know that give their students the opportunity to "fly" a jet for 30 hrs on a Level D?
And about training professionals not being sure wether this type of jet sim being advantageous or not.... who are these professionals? With more and more airlines hiring low houred pilots for jet positions, this kind of training at an earlier stage can only come as a benefict.

Best regards.

[Daniel_109]

open des are u in aeromadrid or aerofan?

[BillieBob]

odlix - RTFQ! You are reacting to a statement that was never made. In response to eolas's hype, I simply pointed out that there was nothing particularly special about the A320 sim at Aeromadrid in comparison with every other A320 sim in the world.

As for the training professionals, let's start with most, if not all of the TRIs and TREs that I work with, who find it frustrating to have to re-teach basic MCC skills to people who have spent too much time playing with the shiny knobs and switches and too little concentrating on the job in hand. Flight instruction of any sort has no place in the modular MCC course, a fact that JAR-FCL 1 makes abundantly clear and which is supported, quite forcefully, by the CAA inspectors who approve the courses.

No airlines are routinely hiring low-hours pilots to jet positions with the exception of the CTC/Easyjet programme in which the MCC training is separated from a dedicated JOC, which in turn flows seamlessly into a type rating course.

[eolas]

Hi BillieBob,

What Hype ! Are personal opinions now "Hype" ,

Why are you so negative ?

Regarding the Aeromadrid Sim. I was expressing an opinion that was related to me by Aeromadrid staff they were passionate about their equipment and said that it was the biggest of its kind in Europe. American Flyers inext door to Aeromadrid also have an A320 Sim but its no way as big as the Aeromadrid machine. Of course you have flown the Aeromadrid sim on a few occasions and its nothing special ! what's your problem ?

Eolas

[peb]

BillieBob
How many FTOs have sims Level D A320 or similar?
About the renewals you can do it in UK and then send a form via mail. You can also change your licence form DGAC to the CAA.

No airlines are routinely hiring low-hours pilots to jet positions with the exception of the CTC/Easyjet programme
You have check a bit a about that starting by LTE, Iberworld, Vueling has taken pilots fron there. And dont tell me that it is easer to find a job without a type rating that with it. If you are right I dont know why there is UK pilots doinf that without a job here.

Consider also that you will have to sit exams set directly from the Central Question Bank - the CAA employs two full-time experts whose main task is to translate the raw CQB questions into understandable English before including them in UK set exams.
Have you see them? I dont think that they are that bad.

[PPRuNe Towers]

eolas: One 320 sim bigger than the other?

You really are showing how completely naive, hopelessy inexperienced and open to disinformation you are. I can't work out whether to bar you from posting on Spanish schools or to ask you to write an extensive article for our humour section.

You are simply confirming the impressions the pros passing though here that there is one born every minute but you are hoping to recruit others to join your hopeless efforts at research.

MCC is tick in the box exercise as far as the training device is concerned and vitally important in terms of the wise and grey haired trainer you should be searching out to work with.

As with FTO's it is the quality of the teaching and instruction that is so important. As ever, personal reputation, not the brochures, not the website, not the marketing is the key to top value.

Rob

[BillieBob]

eolas - No negativity, I am simply pointing out, in response to your rather one-sided comments, that the A320 sim at Cuatro Vientos is no better and no worse than any other Level D device. In fact, there is another, identical in all respects, made by the same manufacturer to the same specification and approved to the same requirements, in Crawley.

peb - You make the same mistake as Odlix. The number of FTOs that have access to a Level D simulator is irrelevant to the comments that I originally made. Whilst the operators that you mention have taken (very) small numbers of low-hour pilots, they do not routinely recruit them.
And dont tell me that it is easer to find a job without a type rating that with it. I don't, and I didn't. This is yet another response to a comment that was never made. However, I will say that a type-rating without line experience is worth very little.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinions but I would echo Rob's implied position that the opinions of the experienced professionals are probably worth slightly more than those of the naive wannabees. However, if you wish to cling to your opinions in the face of all evidence to the contrary then be my guest - it's your life and your money.

[Daniel_109]

Come on people can we all just get along!!:D All i wanted was some info!! Thanks for that by the way,
Cheers
Danny:ok:

[OPEN DES]

Daniel_109:
i m in aeromadrid

[Odlix]

BillieBob said:
"As for the training professionals, let's start with most, if not all of the TRIs and TREs that I work with, who find it frustrating to have to re-teach basic MCC skills to people who have spent too much time playing with the shiny knobs and switches and too little concentrating on the job in hand."

That might be true, not the case at AeroMadrid though I would suspect. By the time students get to the "real" MCC on the A320 Level D Sim, they've had around around 70hrs of simulator working as a multi-crew (most hours FNPTII, some FNPTI).

BillieBob said:
"No airlines are routinely hiring low-hours pilots to jet positions with the exception of the CTC/Easyjet programme in which the MCC training is separated from a dedicated JOC, which in turn flows seamlessly into a type rating course".

Not true at all, as peb pointed out. Maybe in the UK it is the case but, talking about Europe in general, there are opportunities out there right now for low houred pilots to start flying jets.

[Island Hopper]

BillieBob: Anything over 56 weeks to complete ATPL is unreasonable.

Is it?
I thought it took many many many people longer than that?

IH