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Rugz
11th May 2004, 19:05
Right or wrong? Should it be left as it is or not?

http://www.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,30500-13088069,00.html


BBC bosses are editing an episode of the nation's favourite sitcom Only Fools And Horses for being racist.

They are removing a four-letter racist slur relating to Pakistanis from the episode, first shown in 1981.

The corporation's chiefs cut the line - uttered by Del Boy's granddad in the episode The Russians Are Coming - after a complaint from a viewer.

A BBC spokesman said the word's "perceived offensiveness has increased significantly over intervening years".

The Beeb is also considering cutting two racist words from an episode of Fawlty Towers, which are muttered by the bumbling Major.

The spokesman added: "Each programme is considered on an individual basis."

Only Fools And Horses recently topped a nationwide poll to find Britain's favourite sitcom.

Formally Known As
11th May 2004, 19:13
Whatever next in this P C shambles the country is in now?

OneWorld22
11th May 2004, 19:18
You've opened a can of worms here!!

Rugz
11th May 2004, 19:22
Quite possibly.

The reason I ask is that I don't personally find this offensive and after a discussion at work with a number of people from a variety of cultures, everyone agreed that they should leave it as it is.

Just interested in the views of the Pprune mob

Snifferdog
11th May 2004, 19:23
Dago's the lot of them!:E

Ozzy
11th May 2004, 19:23
No reruns of "Love Thy Neighbour" or "Til Death Us Do Part" without the censor's blade then. This is a hard one. Time does move on and attitudes change as does language and its usage. I would venture to say that censoring works of art, which is what a show is, is getting on the slippery slope. Who determines what is acceptable or not acceptable. If viewers do not appreciate the show they have control over it with the on/off button on the remote.

Ozzy

ssultana
11th May 2004, 19:26
Would they edit it if an anti-christian or anti-american statement was made?

Do you think that the way people generalise about americans being ignorant (or islamic people being terrorists) is similar to the way people generalised about the jews being selfish in germany, circa 1930. I do.

People who do generalise about races are the same as those who supported the Nazi cause.

I don't have an opinion on this but here's a fact.

You couldn't go on a comedy show in the UK and joke about Islam and terrorists, but you can joke about catholic priests and paedophila.

I understand sensitivity, but i also recognise double standards.

The media never shows the truth, or remains objective.

OneWorld22
11th May 2004, 19:30
Catholics are fair game in this day and age ssultana, you can slag them off and say the most offensive things about them and nobody bats an eyelid,

But say something about Muslims? Slag them off on TV? Have an Islamic "Ayatollah Ted?"

No chance!!

spork
11th May 2004, 20:23
George Orwell had it right - we need to clean up all references to everything that offends. Now just remind me, who is it exactly who decides?

Davaar
11th May 2004, 20:38
Young Men's Christian Association.

Delete "Young": ageist;
Delete "Men's": sexist;
Delete "Christian": religious discrimination;
Delete "Association": discriminates against non-members.

Drap-air
11th May 2004, 20:49
Will the 'turbanator' episode be scrapped?? Pure comedy at others expense!! But we love it

tony draper
11th May 2004, 20:53
None newspeak double plus ungood.
thought crime, big brother see all hear all kick arse.
**** em all.

Underneath the spreading chestnut tree dee dum dee dee.

Good one Mr Davaar. :rolleyes:

Boss Raptor
11th May 2004, 20:56
A lot of what we watched then is now concerned offensive - utter rubbish - do we censor older stuff which is equally as questionable?! no...it dictates the social state at the time (which hasnt changed!)

Not the Nine O'Clock News 'walking on the cracks in the pavement, having an offensive wife...being in possesion of big lips...Mr. Winston Codogo...tell me PC Savage would he happen to be black? Ah I dont know sir I hadnt noticed...' classic

pilotwolf
11th May 2004, 22:40
Usual crap with the loud mouthed minority claiming to speak for the majority...

Most of the coloureds/gays/lesbians/Jews/Asians/disabled/Irish/midgets/tall people/Scots/fat people/thin people/helo pilots/etc accept that jokes are made against each/all minorities and accept it in good humour as its meant, knowing no one is excempt and no malice is intended.

Its the few self-rightous to$$ers who ruin it for all including those they claim to be representing. Seem to recall a radio discussion a while back that said something like 7/10 complaints about coloureds, (use the word for all other than caucations for ease of typing), actually came from caucation complainers!

I have worked with people and have friends from various races/creeds and some of them were the worst for telling 'racist' jokes!

Yes stop racism/sexism/ageism if it GENUINELY exists but lets all grow up!

PW

ssultana
11th May 2004, 22:44
What get's me more than anything is anti-americanism, it's rife in our so-called educational institutions. I can't believe some of the biggoted racism i hear.

But it's the same people who accused me of polluting when i burned a TINY bit lino on a fire at a bbq in my own garden last week. When i pointed out that they all use electricity and gas heating they shut up.

Unfortunatley it's not how smart you are that gets recognition in this world, just how loud you shout.

Onan the Clumsy
11th May 2004, 22:44
You've opened a can of worms here!! That's right.

I always thought Only Fools and Horses was a pile of poo!

Miserlou
11th May 2004, 23:36
But what was the word?

criticalmass
11th May 2004, 23:46
I hope to be alive for the backlash against this sort of politically-correct insanity and those who propagate it with such fervour. Government by the unelected. Dictatorship by stealth. Call it what you will, it is simply a form of collective insanity.

I have a large wooden block and an axe which will assist us in ridding our world of such idiots. "Stone dead hath no fellow."

OneWorld22
11th May 2004, 23:52
Do people really think its OK to use the word "P**i"??

And no, Jews, Irishmen, Blacks, Asians, the handicapped I'm quite sure never enjoyed being the butt of distasteful jokes.

What kind of idiot thinks that a member of a minority group will not mind or will roll around laughing when told a joke about him when the joke is invevitably referring to some moronic sterotype like the Irish are thick or Jews are tight with money etc?

Practice Auto 3,2,1
12th May 2004, 00:06
No OneWorld use of the 'P' word is most definately not acceptable in this day and age.....but, when it was included in the OF&H episode it would not have been said in the same context as some use it today.

The same goes for the 'Major' in Fawlty Towers. As Ron Atkinson found out the 'N' or 'W' words are most definately tabo these days (unless of course you are black and use one of those as a term of greeting), but again when the script for the show was written they were words that Maj's generation of people would have used to describe coloured people.

I have to agree it would be a shame to have these edited from these classic British comedies just because of one complaint. As someone said in an earlier post, if you find it offensive, use the mute or the 'off' button!!

Just my £0.02 worth!!

:uhoh:

tony draper
12th May 2004, 00:08
Something strange the word Paki was never used up here, all people hailing from the Indian subcontinent were called Indians, no doubt this annoyed the folks from Pakistan, the name must have drifted up from the south, it has however entered common parlance now unlike most of the other words that are deemed none PC words that are used as a term of abuse or insult, the P word is in everyday use, ie I'm just off up the P***'s for some sugar.
Now my fathers generation had a word for Asian people I did feel was offensive, W *G, it just sounded downright nasty somehow, thankfully that has dissapeared from the language up here, but I am afraid the P word is here to stay, rather like Geordie or Scouse,

Paracab
12th May 2004, 00:11
Paki = Pakistani

Brit = British

But they are not the same because of the way they are perceived.

When that episode of OFAH was made the way those terms were perceived was not the same.

Brit almost didn't exist and Paki was a commonplace term.

What was accepted then is not accepted now. But it wasn't written now, and was accepted then.

What a dilemma, what to do ?

Leave it alone, if you don't like, don't watch it.




I appreciate this post is close to the mark, and will not be offended if you bin it

Animalclub
12th May 2004, 02:55
In a Rotary Club. of which I was a member, we had an Italian member with a dinner badge "Mr W*g". Sure it was a joke but he wouldn't let us change it. Mind you that was in the 80's.

PPRuNe Towers
12th May 2004, 04:17
Sense has finally prevailed - the finest comedies are being re-run unmolested.

But it's not just you watching it. There are a number of young children with you. The program was originally perfectly suitable for the entire family - is this still the case?

Rob

Buster Hyman
12th May 2004, 04:52
Should we censor a film like "Blazing saddles" as well? It portrays the racism against an Afro-American (...if it's okay to say that?) and the Chinese in the West. They even say the "N" word in it!
Comedies like that can portray the futility of stereotypes, as the star of the show is the "vilified" non-white bloke. (...is it okay to say that?) Mel Brooks often faces questions about Blazing Saddles & his success at portraying the Nazis & Hitler, he argues that he's the only Jew to make a buck out of Hitler!
Archie Bunker is another that springs to mind. Deliberately portrayed as a racist, IMHO, but continually shown up by his "victims".
There is a fine line between derision & comedy. To try to apply the same standard across the board is futile. An individual is the only person that can choose what is funny or not.:8

Llademos
12th May 2004, 07:39
Quote ...

The corporation's chiefs cut the line - uttered by Del Boy's granddad in the episode The Russians Are Coming - after a complaint from a viewer

...

Sod the other 11,999,999

eal401
12th May 2004, 09:15
What staggers me is that this has been done due to a complaint from, wait for it, one viewer!!! One for goodness sake!!

How long before all the other decent sitcoms suffer as a result, can't people understand that these are from the past?

As for the use of the word "paki" this is deemed offensive due to how it is generally used. The way it was used in the instance mentioned, wasn't racist IMO, it simply refered to a corner shop, a large proportaion of which were and still are owned & run by people from the sub-continent. It wasn't saying "f***ing Paki" or "I hate f***ing Paki's" or anything else that is really offensive. Unfortunately, most people simply hear the word & go off on one!

Though a Pakistani colleague of mine took great delight in informing me that the word itself is not offensive, as it translates as "clean!"

surely not
12th May 2004, 09:31
There was a team of Pakistani cricketers in Crwley that used to call themselves 'Pak XI'. Not sure why they changes it, but it existed for a good number of years.

Also, whilst visiting a friend in L.A. we went to a comedy evening at one of the clubs. When the booking was made we were advised that the comedians and audience were predominantly Black. This didn't deter us and we went along to the show. I don't think I had ever heard the word Ni**er used so much before! Virtually every joke and every comment used the word, and of course as one of about 5 whites in the audience we were pointed out as 'nice to see some honkies in the house tonight' I wasn't offended by this, it seemed apt in the environment.

Edited to add, I see that the word Ni**er if written in full goes to asterisks, but Honky doesn't.

Maxflyer
12th May 2004, 09:41
My Father-In-Law is Indian and has fully integrated into English/British society. He is Sikh, but chooses not to practice his faith with the Turban etc (personal choice not because he is scared to). He likes Fools and Horses and laighed his socks off when watching the 'Turbanator' episode. He gets more offended when people criticize his gardening prowess!

What concerns me is the thought that the PC Bigade are alienating a lot of white British nationals who feel constantly under attack. This creates a feeling of distrust and isolationism, ultimately allowing groups like the BNP to flourish. If they were to achieve power I know I would be up against the wall along with my wife, kids, in-laws etc. This may sound extreme but something like this happened not too far away less than a hundred years ago!

nosefirsteverytime
12th May 2004, 10:42
next thing you know, they'll ban Looney Tunes and Tom & Jerry cartoons due to the amount of smoking in them (think about it..)

Biggles Flies Undone
12th May 2004, 12:09
Baa baa IC3 ovine creature
Have you any wool?
Yes person of equal social standing, yes person of equal social standing
Three bio degradable containers full*

*contents may settle after packing.

OneWorld22
12th May 2004, 12:22
I think my favourite story is the one of the English council somewhere in Manchester I think bannong the sale of Hot Cross Buns because they figured they were an insult to non-christians!!!

tony draper
12th May 2004, 12:24
I think someone has already mooted the banning Loony toons idea, they apparently contain extreme interspecies violence, seriously thats not a joke.
Some thing that happened to me, not exactly PC but the similar mindset, working on the Tyneside Metro system, had finished installing a PA system for HM to officialy open said system, slef and mate took a ride downtrack to finish some work on another staion,PAX phone in equip roonm rings,one answers,tiz metro control center
,"Tony can yer do us a favour, we got nobody spare",

"indeed" replies drapes"anything for you fellows"

"Go out on to the North platform you will see a advert for ladies tights,can you loosen it off and put it on tother side of the advertizing hording please?"

Drapes "What the **** for?"

"Lizzy Windsors train will be passing that side in twenty minutes and she might look out the window see it"

Drapes "**** off one is busy"

One kids you not.
Said advert was full size of lady bending over sans skirt wearing tights, about as erotic as a bag or rivets totaly inoffensive IMHO.
Now had said lady been performing the same act wearing stocking and suspenders, well hmmmmm.




:rolleyes:

Buster Hyman
12th May 2004, 12:35
:E MMMM, Rivets...GROWWWLLL! :E

OneWorld22
12th May 2004, 12:36
Mmmmmmm, Trains..............................:E

Idunno
12th May 2004, 13:08
Hi OneWorld...thought you'd be interested in this.....

Who put the cross on the hot cross bun?

With a little delving I discovered that small cakes were baked and offered to goddesses at the beginning of spring in a number of ancient cultures including the Assyrians, Babylonians and Egyptians. The goddess being honoured was Ishtar, or Hathor, the goddess of the moon, associated with fertility and renewal. These cakes were marked with a curved shape representing the horns of an ox, the animal connected with the moon. The Greeks and Romans also made cakes for their moon goddesses, and again marked them with ox horns. In fact, it is thought that the Greek word for these cakes, 'boun’, meaning 'ox’, may have given us our word ‘bun’.

Soon, Europe was full of variations on these little buns to mark the start of spring and they eventually ended up in Britain via the pagan cultures of northern Europe. The Saxons worshipped Eostre, the goddess of dawn and spring, this word deriving from the Norse ‘eostur’ meaning the season of the growing sun. Eostre gave her name to Easter, the month-long festival to honour the arrival of spring and the passing of winter, and during this festival the Saxons made buns to offer the goddess.

So what about the cross? Well, it seems that the pagan cross, long used to represent the four phases of the moon, was the symbol of choice for the Saxons wanting to honour their goddess Eostre, so they marked their wheaten buns accordingly. When the Christians gained a firm foothold in Britain, their leaders banned the pagan Easter rites, and it was not until 782 AD, having found a way to incorporate some of these rites into the Christian ones held at this same time of year, that they decided that substitution was easier than fully-fledged conversion. The cross on the buns conveniently echoed the traditional Christian cross and the Easter festival became dominated by Christian traditions, the original pagan rites slowly sliding into obscurity.


So the humble Bun is in fact a Pagan motif rather than a Christian one! Leave the buns alone!

However, if you want to be really PC....

In 1683 Vienna was besieged by the expanding Ottoman Empire. A group of bakers heard the sound of the Turks tunnelling under the walls of the city, and alerted the army.
The Turkish attack was repelled and their army withdrew shortly afterward.
As a reward, the bakers of Vienna were allowed to bake pastries in the shape of the Islamic crescent symbol thereafter to forever commemorate the Turkish defeat.

So no good Muslim should ever eat a Croissant as it is a Motif of Christian supremacy (and probably not Halal anyhow), and Croissants should be banned altogether because they are not PC. :}

Animalclub
13th May 2004, 03:26
I've been told that there is a pub in the Black Country (no pun intended) called "Loves Labour Lost". Only white do gooders have complained about the sign. The local black community think that it shows just how stupid white people can be.

The sign? Two white women scrubbing a young black boy in a bath.

Can anyone confirm that this pub and sign actually exist?

Uncle Cracker
13th May 2004, 03:40
That reminds me of a pub up in t' ills called "The Quiet Woman." The sign? A headless lady. And this pub does exist!