JAA FTOs that don't need UK Class 1

[Blinkz]

Hey guys,
As some of you may be aware I'm still struggling to get a class 1. My main problem was colourvision, however I have now passed a JAA approved test in Germany (at one of there AMCs too) and so am hoping to have a full JAA Class 1 soon. The problem is that the UK might not accept my class 1 due to the fact that I took the colourtest with them first and failed.

Does anyone know of any FTOs (anywhere, I don't mind traveling) that can do JAA training/licenses that don't need a UK JAA medical? Most of the ones I've seen are UK based and need a UK medical. I would do the training in Germany but I don't speak anything but english. Any advice would be great!

[no sponsor]

I admire your determination. However, bear in mind that you may still need to pass an airline medical. I don't know what their standards are.

Luftansa flight training in Croatia will presumably accept you, or schools in Spain? There are plenty of others; just look in the back of Pilot or Flyer magazines.

[Blinkz]

most airlines accept that you have a valid class 1 and leave it at that. I agree BA will probably not hire me, but thats there loss. Thanks for the info.

[Blinkz]

One thing that I'm not very clear on is exaclty how the US JAA training works. Will I be able to use my German JAA Class 1 there? I have read that the only state at the moment to license FTOs outside itself is the UK. So does this mean that all the JAA FTOs in the US are UK affliated? Will I not be able to use my german JAA medical if the CAA don't accept it? Thanks.

[BillieBob]

LASORS states:

The initial JAR Class 1 medical examination can be
conducted at the UK CAA Aeromedical Centre at
Gatwick. Holders of a JAR Class 1 medical
certificate issued by another JAA Member State
should either contact the CAA Aeromedical Centre
at Gatwick or refer to the CAA-SRG website for
details on acceptability and mutual recognition.

The SRG website here (http://www.caa.co.uk/srg/med/default.asp?page=2576) states:

You must obtain a UK JAR Class 1 medical certificate before the CAA can issue a UK JAR CPL. The procedure to gain a UK certificate depends on the type of medical certificate and/or licence you already hold (JAR or non-JAR) and is shown as a flow chart/algorithm. If you have a current non-UK JAR Class 1 medical certificate, we require confirmation from the JAA state Aeromedical Section (AMS) which issued your original certificate that you have/have had no serious medical problems. You can do this by downloading a special form from this website and sending it to the AMS who issued your medical certificate. They should fill it in and send it back to us (via you if necessary). There is no requirement for your AMS to send any medical records to the UK. You will also be required to provide a copy of your valid JAR Class 1 medical certifiacte and an administration fee of £22 sterling. If it is inconvenient for you to contact your AMS, or if you hold any other type of Class 1 medical certificate (non-JAR) you will need to attend the UK Aeromedical Centre (AMC) at Gatwick for a medical examination. The standard you will need to meet at your medical examination (initial JAR Class 1 or revalidation JAR Class 1) will be determined by the type of medical certificate/licence you already hold. This is explained in the algorithm.

You must confirm with the CAA Medical Branch that your Class 1 will be acceptable before you start spending money on training for a UK-issued licence

[robione]

What a load of crap.Ref the above post.No disrespect to you BILLIEBOB.

Heres Blinkz,whos PASSED a JAA approved test,so is hoping to have a full class one soon,who obviously wants to fly in the U.K,being told that, Having a non UK JAR class one,that we require confirmation from the JAA issuing state that you have/have had no serious medical problems.What crap is that ?So the UK CAA in its infinite wisdom deems other JAA approved medical professionals as incompetant,unable to detect problems with peoples health and hand out class one medicals willy nilly.Its a JAA class one for christttttttsakesss.JAA is all about Europe isnt it?.Pilots from all over Europe are on the move with there JAA licences in the hands into varios European countries and getting jobs.Its all about being acceptable if its JAA.Why should the UK CAA poke its nose in, when, if its a JAA medical issued by a JAA state.The UK CAA are merely an issuing authority now governed by JAA, and about time to.We are not talking about a non-Jaa medical here.This system still needs some shaking to rattle some of the bizzare rules out of it.We had enough of a time dealing with the UK CAA before JAA arrived,seems like they arnt prepared to roll over and die yet.

[Blinkz]

Thanks for the posts, to be fair to the CAA they haven't said they won't accept my class 1 yet, they said they are going to discuss it and let me know. They are having a meeting on friday and I will find out then. The fact that they have to even discuss it I find slightly stupid, as the reasons stated above about the JAA.

I understand them not accepting the lantern test alone, since it is different to how they do it etc, but to not accept a full JAA class 1 I think it just ludicrous. I hope they see sense and let me transfer it.

[Regis Potter]

robione

Sadly, this is typical of JAA. Mutual recognition of medical certificates is only the tip of the iceberg. In my experience UKCAA are actually head & sholders above the majority of regualtory authorities with regard to acceptance of other state issued licences, certificates and approvals.

And no, I don't work for the CAA ! :rolleyes:

[IRISHPILOT]

hi there.

Not normally on this forum, but have to let you know that there are several places doing all JAA training (ground and flight) in English:

your small neighbour, Ireland,
Sweden (that's what I heard from Swedish colleagues anyway),
Malta (not up to date wether they are JAR)
not sure about the Czech Republic.

all these places are also cheaper.

Do a few searches on Google...

regards, IP

[robione]

Blinkz,keep us posted on the outcome,i still cant believe what ive been reading,Having a meeting my aaaaaaaaa.A class one is a class one is a class one.Thanks Regis Potter for your input,the UK CAA might well be head and shoulders above most other authoritys,but i really cannot believe that they are going to have a meeting about this matter.I mean again, a class 1 is a class one, regardless of how many meetings they want to hold.Have these people really got the power to say:Right then, lets hold a meeting and discuss Blinkz,s class 1 medical issued by blah blah,shall we say sorry cant accept it.On what grounds would they be able to overide a JAA medical examiners decision to issue a Class one,and then revoke it.Can they do this ? Surely there is a system of appeal should they decide at THE MEETING to not accept it.Sorry but this one has got right up my nose.The JAA put these medical examiners there and found them to be competent medical professionals and gave them the authority to examine and issue these medicals on behalf of the JAA.Who on earth gave the UK CAA the right to HOLD MEETINGS TO DISCUSS WHAT THEY THINK THEY SHOULD DO in regards to a medical already[sorry]which in all probability is going to be issued.I am flabergasted about this one. It would be interesting to hear any legal views on this issue,because if the UK CAA decide dont like this one,im sure that it will get really interesting

[PPRuNe Towers]

Calm down Robione,

Those of us who write elsewhere on the site don't do anything but praise the medical section.

We're the ones who due to their simply being a lot more of us than wannabees, are older than wannabees and suffer all the effects that come with that.

There are more than 10,000 of us in the UK and just a couple of hundred wannabees. Therefore our exposure to the medics in troubling times is many times greater.

Use the search engine to see if you can find anything other than this attitude: They bend over backwards to keep us flying.

Rob Lloyd

[robione]

Sorry, i might have got a bit excited about this,i just dont like to see the mighty powerfull ones coming down hard on the little ones,and it touched a nerve this chaps predicument.

[Regis Potter]

How about this for an example :

JAA CPL (Belgian issued) is only valid when accompanied by an appropriate medical certificate issued by a Belgian AME. UK issued JAR medical certificate is not (presently) recognised.

[Blinkz]

ok its offical. The UK will not accept a full german JAA Class 1 medical. You gotta love em :ok:

[robione]

Whats your plans and options now Blinkz?

[Blinkz]

Not 100% sure. First order is to actaully get a class 1 so I'll goto germany asap and do the inital medical and hopefully pass it.

Basically what this now means is that the UK can't be my state of issue and so training will be a little more complicated. Main options as I see them are training in either ireland, spain or germany. Obviously one problem is the language barrier as I only speak english.

One big concern I have is my employability. Since I won't be able to get a UK issued license I can't fly for easyjet or BA, not sure about the other airlines that need UK licenses.

Wasn't JAA supposed to fix all this? :}

Any advice is more then welcome!

[BillieBob]

Unfortunately, pressman's idea won't work. To change the State of Licence Issue, you must have a medical certificate issued by or rendered valid by the receiving state. If the CAA medical branch have stated that they will not accept your German medical then that will still be the case if and when you have a German (or any other State's) issued JAA CPL. Regrettably, it looks as though the UK can never be your State of Licence Issue.

Interesting that the same UK medical branch recently issued a Class 2 JAA medical to a person who had previously been refused by the French DGAC on the grounds that (s)he is profoundly deaf and, as a consequence, is unable to speak.

[Martin1234]

"One big concern I have is my employability. Since I won't be able to get a UK issued license I can't fly for easyjet or BA, not sure about the other airlines that need UK licenses. "

Is it really in accordance with EU legislation not to hire somebody on the fact that a locally valid certificate/licence is issued by another EU state? However, at some point or another all JAR certificates will probably be issued by the same authority.

Don't forget that you need to do the theoretical part of your training at a German FTO. However, you might want to look at JAR-FCL 1.065(b) but it's at the descretion of both authorities involved to accept the possibility to do your training under the supervision of more than one state (till you have your CPL issued that is).

[Blinkz]

I don't have a problem with the UK not being the state of issue, after how they have treated me to be honest I really don't want them being the issueing state. Like I said before I am slightly worried about the employability side of the coin.

Training will be slightly more difficult. I doubt very much that the UK CAA would agree to let me do some training here and have te licence issued in germany due to the fact they don't think I'm safe to fly. I don't care where I train, the only limitation I have is that I only speak english. Ireland is probably my best bet so I'm going to talk to them and see if they will accept the colourtest/full medical and if so will hopefully do my training there and get a IAA issued license. Spain is also an option since there are a number of english speaking FTOs over there. Germany is obviously the best choice in the fact that I have a german medical, but I am yet to find an english speaking FTO over there, but I will keep looking.

I'm not letting this small set back from stopping me flying. I will do everything in my power to become a pilot and hopefully I will oneday achive my dream. Thanks for all the advice guys, keep it coming! :)