newbie question - good flight school in sydney?

[edddie]

Hi guys,

Just considering a flight school to do my PPL. Had a friend recommend me Sydney Aerobatic School and I heard Basair is good as well.

do you guys have any thoughts on the schools or other suggestions?


thanks very much

[KLN94]

www.afts.net

[citationdriver]

If you were getting your PPL 5 years ago, AFTS would be a good choice! Now? Another Failed Training School....

[Irishwingz]

I hired a 172 out of Basair in February as I was there on holidays. They were friendly, very professional and the aircraft was in good condition despite being old. Wouldnt hesitate to recommend them. Prices were competitive too. Seems like a busy place, lots of spotty students and instructors:p hanging around.

Enjoy!

[Atlas Shrugged]

Tell me, have they still got the old girl (VH-JTB) on line there?

AS

[Garrylous]

Yup and JTJ.

Many years ago, when JTJ had little numbers on the clock Brisbane center asked me to speed up in descent, I said I was going flat out, they said must be a hell of a head wind.

A little later (about a minute) they realised I was not TAA DC-9 TJJ.

Woof.

[Gear Down & Welded]

Same thing used to happen to the HARS Connie EAG, as EAG is right in the middle of the QF B767-200 allocation.

[swoz]

curtis aviation in camden is good fun... but whatever you do, avoid aerospace aviation in bankstown...

[Northern Chique]

Curtis Aviation for PPL stuff! Good range of aircraft and if Jim Drennan is still there a really good, sound training training ethic. The mentality there was flying is fun, and is taught by folks who enjoy their roles as teachers. They have a wide range of aircraft exposure as well. Nothing like aeros at the end of the day....

Cheaper than Bankstown in the long run.

The other school I recommend would be Whitworths, esp for the more advanced stuff if you choose to go that way, although not sure what Curtis offers in that field.

The other thing is dont pay up front. Pay by the hour... too many folks have some pretty bad stories about lost money and or bad service.

Have fun :D

[Garrylous]

I see my post defending a reputable flying school from an anaymous attack from an ex employee has been removed. Why do that and leave the attack in place.

One of the problems with GA is backstabbing, that attack was backstabbing, removing it by whichever Woomera brings this site into disrepute.

(perhaps a woomera with a dose of the the snivelies over being beaten by that flying schools owner in the AOPA election)

It was actually done by a Scouser in the UK who won't put up with you threatening a poster offering their opinion. Paranoia is your right but this is a private site, completely unadvertised and unpromoted. Care to dispute that??

You found us, we didn't come looking for you. You agreed to our terms. Our site, our rules. Don't like it? Put your energy into creating a site in Australia that can actually get an audience.

Rob Lloyd

[apache]

There is a new school operating at BANKSTOWN, I believe that it is called Bankstown Aviation College, on Drover road (in the AEROLINK hanger).

The owners are both instructors, and have vowed NOT to make the same mistakes of other flying schools, and teach students properly. They DO NOT have any "hour building" instructors, and CPL students are expected to behave like the commercial pilots they want to become.

This school, hopefully, will do well... and they have a social side as well ... like the old Aero Club days!

A breath of fresh air.

More info, call MICHAEL on 0414 669 677.

BTW.. I am NOT michael, nor do I have anything to do with them... but I have been there and had a look( just out of curiosity!)

Good luck

[edddie]

thanks very much guys... alot of varied opinions!

I think I will look into atfs and the camden place but camden might just be abit too far away...

thanks guys

[aerocom]

Dude,

Give BASAIR and AFTS a miss especially Basair. That new Mob at Bankstown that are operating out of the Aerolink hanger seem to be a good bunch. All new facilities and there chief pilot has been around for a long time at BK. I think they are called Sydney Aviation College. All the best with your training.

[brianh]

Woomera Lloyd

Does that also give you the right to remove MY totally non paranoid non threatening non "personal attack" post asking Garrylous to put up the substance of his defence of AFTS????

I note Garrylous was also strongly pro-AOPA on the now closed thread. Having seen your response to another pro-AOPA poster who for some strange reason was banned - and wouldn't I like to post that response up here - I find your removal of my request quite unsurprising but quite understandable.

Now remove this! But first explain why you removed MY post. Let me guess - it may have incited a riot?

[brianh]

Woomera Lloyd

For some reason I cannot edit my last post, therefore let me add that I am now advised that one other than you was also involved in the censorship so my remarks need to be directed two ways rather than at you.

Defamation must have different meanings offshore. I note that the acronym defaming AFTS remains despite protestations about the need to remove personal attacks.

[ugly]

It was actually done by a Scouser in the UK who won't put up with you threatening a poster offering their opinion.But disgruntled people are allowed to discredit their former employers under a cloak of anonymity?

This citationdriver might have a grudge against management of of AFTS - but by posting this sort of crap he is also affecting the livelyhoods of many instructors who work at this school.

Ugly, We've looked after wannabees for 8 years without taking a penny from them - if a school is good it will get good reports here. Discerning readers take especial notice of good reports from those with a varied, extensive and reasonably long term posting history - they get the measure of the person writing from the quality of their posts not their name and give due deference to their views regarding any particular school.

No post passing comment on the quality of this school for or against has been removed. Is that clear enough for you as a 'web designer.' sir? Every action on this site is logged, time IP address, ID and status user, mod, super mod or as in my case admin. We stand by the logs and they have already been proven and used in an investigation that resulted in life imprisonment. Clear enough!

Don't pass on nonsense to me regarding instructors. This site was conceived, created and always run from the rebel city of Liverpool in the UK. It appears I wasn't clear enough earlier.

We have never advertised
.
We have never issued a press release

I met Geoffrey Thomas in a lift at the Paris Hilton once but nevertheless we haver never been interviewed by any part of the Oz media

Each one of you found us and not the other way around.

The gross oversupply of commercial pilots in your country and Nzed is none of our doing. In the UK a 200 hour pilot typically goes straight to a turbo prop or jet. PPRuNe has done more than any other single source on the planet to let Oz pilots know where there is work and how to get it. The feeding frenzy to repeat your nasty, backbiting hand to mouth cycle has nothing to do with us and all to do with a training industry that is collectively a series of underfunded, undercapitalised hobby and vanity busnesses run by overweening egos in Australia.

At PPRuNe we have only one aim - to allow aviation professionals around the world communicate. We're damn good at it - you seen a competitor for us in the last 8 years? To put it in context we started when there was no such thing as Google, Amazon, Yahoo, internet chat, broadband.

Citation driver expressed an opinion - that's it. I got rid of someone using bullying threats of legal action. End of story.

It is a very competitive world out there - If you don't like the way this site is run use an alternative.

Rob LLoyd

[flying_phonebox]

Whats wrong with Basair???

[ovum]

This thread looks like becoming quite heated as there's something strange going on with removing posts etc. I personally don't agree with censorship on DB's as it sort of defeats the purpose. If you're going to remove posts and enforce your rules however, be consistent as ugly suggested.

As for flight schools...take a few hours to do some door knocking and do some 'hands on' research. You'll find out quite a bit and be able to compare a lot easier than with what you read on here. Just make sure you make up a list of questions and ask the tough ones!! If they can't/won't answer them then look elsewhere. In the end, if you're not happy with the service, it's not that hard to change schools and don't feel bad about doing so if you're being screwed around.

flying_phonebox, the only reason I can think of why someone would suggest not going to Basair would be because it can be quite hard to get an aircraft at times esp. on weekends. They're quite busy and unless you get in early it can be up to 2-3 weeks before a slot frees up on a weekend.

ovum

[Dogimed]

Would recommend AFTS. I moved interstate and still fly there!. But I figure that considering DJ offer $80.00 flights, its worth the trip just to maintain a good flying instructor/school.

Will probably move but Jeeeeeeeeze you gotta love buzzin around in a tobago over the crappy 172's

Curtis in Camden is also a gooddun.

Cheers

Dog

[Northern Chique]

I dont get it some days......

All our dear poster was asking was a recommendation for a good school... and what do they get, a slanging match. I strongly believe in editing as folks can write some pretty unfounded and mean stuff at times, and the damage may well and truley be done by the time they get around to fixing their post.

Some schools dont agree with some folks..... others might... its horses for courses really. There are some dubious instructors around the traps, with some weird and wonderful ways of treating machinery and students, but that is not the topic... just suggest a good school you have been at, and let it go at that. It would save a lot of errant material on posts such as this and the poster can go visit and formulate his or her own opinion........

If you have serious concerns, why not personally email the poster....

[flying_phonebox]

Thanx Ovum.

I concur with the problemo Re: Booking of aircraft at flying schools and i think its a factor many people don't consider when going about flying training. SO (insert original poster's alias here!) be careful about signing up with a school as a "Professional Course Student" et al for your training as you may find that its short hand for "Will fly when an aircraft is not being used by a private student" .

Flying is such a costly thing to undertake that it might be worth it to try and get to talk to some current students of various schools at bankstown/camden/wherever and get some honest opinions.

For instance, book a TIF (Trial Intro Flight) with a school or two (usually cheap enough) to suss em out, then after the TIF engage a student or two in some conversation about how their training is going. I'm sure you'll get some bites as there usually at least a baker's dozen lying around waiting for either a plane to show up, the weather to improve or someone to sign something...

Whatever you do treat it with the same respect you would when buying a used car....

cheers

-ze box

[ovum]

Rob,

What's the best way to PM or email you? Standard site admin address?

Cheers

Yep - Rob

[Big Kev]

General Flying Services out at Bankstown are the best school. Been to a few others but GFS far exceeds all of them. They may be a little more expensive but what you pay per hour includes landing fee's, briefings etc etc.........nothing hidden and GFS is the only school that Qantas approves of to train their cadets so I think that kinda says something about their professionalism and approach to training etc etc.

All the aircraft except the decathlon are brand new and all come with GPS and Autopilots in them. Me-thinks that is important.

Big Kev.

[overhere]

The problem with the site is you have to get through all the crap to actually get an answer half the time.

But none the less, if all you want is a PPL then Basair or AFTS are fine.

If you want to end up flying jets etc then a school such as SFTC or GFS where you are more airline tuned early on might be better for you.

Would also recommend you stay clear of Aerospace.

Every school has its advantages and disadvantages, you really need to go have a chat to them all and see which one is best for you.

[Atlas Shrugged]

Yup and JTJ.
That's a blast from the past! Orange Tobago if I remember correctly. Last time I saw it was in pieces in the hangar and about to be retired. Only ever flew it once; I liked it but it didn't like me.

Years ago JTB was a pretty slick Trinidad and Jim W's personal transport when he was in town. Haven't seen her around for a while though. Wouldn't mind flying the old girl again one day - she always behaved like the perfect lady!

AS

[briangrinter]

Ugly, We've looked after wannabees for 8 years without taking a penny from them...
Dear Rob,
I've tried to reply all day - however it appears either I have some wierd computer problem or have been banned, as I am unable to log in as 'ugly' on 2 PCs even after clearing cookies etc.

All I have done is report a post I thought was defamatory. I received no reply for 2 days and sent 2 follow up emails and posted a further question here.

I can't see see any forum rule I've broken. I've said nothing libelous, never resorted to obscene language, been (reasonably) polite at all times. Compared to some posts that are allowed to stand this was hardly controversial :confused:

As I have already said to one of the Woomeras via email, whilst I mightn't agree with the moderation, after discussions I agreed that as its your 'train set' you can set the rules.

Can you please advise my account status?

We have never advertised
.
We have never issued a press release

I met Geoffrey Thomas in a lift at the Paris Hilton once but nevertheless we haver never been interviewed by any part of the Oz media

Each one of you found us and not the other way around.

I found pprune via a link on another website. According to google there are over 2000 websites with links to pprune. Who needs advertising with this sort of groundswell publicity? Obviously being the first with a service has enormous benefits. (except for Netscape...)

As a service to their students AFTS was one of the website providing a link to pprune. However you can hardly wonder why the owner has asked me to remove this link.

To put it in context we started when there was no such thing as Google, Amazon, Yahoo, internet chat, broadband.
umm.. on the front page it say pprune was started in 1995
IRC - 1988
Yahoo - 1994

Amazon - 1995
:ok:

[Farknel]

Just Great isn't it!

Someone asks a straight forward question and the thread turns into a slanging match for every un-resolved grudge in Aussie GA.

I don't propose to offer any suggestions, as I am also interested in finding out about any good flight schools that may exist - Can we get back to the original question without the bitching and back-biting!?

Fark!

[PPRuNe Towers]

Why not restart the thread - some cracking good generic advice a kind soul could cut and paste into an early post.

Posting history of someone offering an opinion and getting out there and spending half a day unnanounced with each on the shortlist should be top tips. Getting off visual axis and watching them deal with both another prospect and a few regulars will tell you loads. Don't matter if they talk martian - the body English on both sides tells the story.

Regards
rob