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Lukeafb1
5th May 2004, 16:28
Why is it that learner drivers in Britain are taught to keep their hands at “ten to two” on the steering wheel and “pass” the wheel between their hands in the same position, when turning? No experienced driver would dream of doing the same thing, cos’ it’s a) positively [email protected]@dy dangerous and b) totally against the natural instincts of steering a car. Watching a learner practicing “three point turns” (OK, I know its not called that these days), is positively painful!

Also, why is operating the tape deck/CD player, or radio, not considered a danger, but using a mobile phone is. We’ll soon be stopped from changing gear, because it means taking one hand off the steering wheel!!

And anticipating that someone will accuse me of encouraging dangerous driving. How many experienced drivers can honestly say they use the “ten to two” method of steering??? If they do, I only hope they don’t use the same roads as me!!

And for those who thought this was a lesson in improving your golf swing. Sorry!!

fishtits
5th May 2004, 16:37
Luke,

I accuse you of encouraging dangerous driving, you bold brat...

PS Rally drivers use a quarter to three position on the wheel so it can't be that wrong!

PPS I think I heard TIM phoning the filth.... Watch your back...

:E

FT

Lukeafb1
5th May 2004, 16:42
Yep, I knew it! It took all of 30 secs!

Rally drivers, off road hooligans!!

Does TIM know how to use a phone?? Wonders never cease.

And as for you, a sack is being stiched as we speak.:E :E

airship
5th May 2004, 17:03
Never seen Micky Schumacher doing more than a 270° on his steering wheel. Must have something to do with the no. of turns required in normal cars (3 x 360°?) from lock to lock. And the advent of power-steering. Old habits die hard. Like not changing gear when cornering. How else to keep up with Madame Dupont on the inner lane?! ;)

fishtits
5th May 2004, 17:12
Luke,

Sorry to hear you ripped your sac - hopefully not whilst driving - you really should get a doctor to stitch that for you though...

:ooh: :E

FT

Paracab
5th May 2004, 17:15
Luke,

Have you any evidence to sunstantiate your claim that the 'ten to two' method of steering is dangerous ?

Why do you think it dangerous ?

It is actually the safest known method as both hands are kept in contact with the wheel as much as possible therefore the driver is able to deal with any emergency/unexpected situation that may occur.

Of course you may know something that I don't, but please let me know any inside info, and I'll advise the facility that taught me incorrectly during my advanced driving course....

The Nr Fairy
5th May 2004, 17:23
I use the 10-2 method most of the time (I'm not an emergency services driver, so I can afford to be a bit lax!). As Paracab says you've always got one hand on the wheel, ready to firmly grasp it if needed.

Try this for a demo - you'll need a friend. Hold an A4 size piece of paper in your hands, like a steering wheel in the 10-2 position. Ask the friend to try to surprise you by trying to snatch the paper out of your hand.

Then repeat, but with your hands crossed as if you'd turned a steering wheel through 180 degrees without taking your hands off.

Any difference ?

The Invisible Man
5th May 2004, 17:58
Lukeafb1 my dear friend,

When I was in the military ( cant say too much official secrets act you understand!!!) I was given an advanced driving course. On my test, I drove around the streets and lanes of Germany doing everything to the book.

Arriving back at the base, the examiner said I was crap and would never keep up with anyone driving like that. He took control and I had the ride of my life, we broke every speed limit, mounted the kerb a couple of times, and his hands were all over the place.

Thats how to drive he told me, you try again. Of we went and I broke all the rules in the book. I passed!!!

I think you only ever drive "properly" once in your life and that's when you take the test ( or not in my case).

Please disregard all the comments about me from others, you know we are good friends and I would never stitch you up. I love contributing to your threads and hope I can continue to do so in the spirit of trust and friendship.

Your Friend,

T.I.M.

:D for you

mini
5th May 2004, 18:45
TIM, Couldn't agree more.

Its obviously important that there are guidelines for the uninitiated (where to hold the wheel) but the safest place to put your hands is where you feel you can control, be it 10 to 2 or 1/4 to 3 etc. 1/4 to 3 will actually give Mr Average more instantaneous leverage. There are no scientifically proven "rules". As for the feeding the steering wheel through your hands crap... went out with 30 mph, non assisted, worm & roller steering boxes.

Rally drivers will hold the wheel anywhere they can get hold of it... trust me, ever wondered what that bit of bright tape at 12 o clock was for? :E

Incidentally, the late great Ayrton Senna was adamant that the steering wheel should at all times be pushed, i.e. down hand up, and NEVER pulled, try it some time...

:ok:

BombayDuck
5th May 2004, 19:15
yeah i was taught the same, but nobody I know drives like that. Dad drices with hands at five to one (or five past eleven) and I have them at ten to three (or quarter past ten). My right hand generally rests on the bar between the wheel and the shaft...

chiglet
5th May 2004, 20:01
No 1 son [police driver] says do NOT put your thumbs inside the steering wheel. Why? 'Cos if you happen to hit summat, and the wheel "jerks", you won't at best, break a thumb, at worst, a wrist
watp,iktch

ShyTorque
5th May 2004, 20:01
I believe there is a historical reason for the 10 to 2 position.

At the time the police wrote their "Roadcraft" manual, the cars used were big old Riley Pathfinders. These cars had such heavy steering that it WAS best to use 10 to 2. This allowed maximum leverage on the wheel. I think it is inherent in the system even now.

I speak only as someone who never had a formal driving lesson in his life (I read a few good books, taught myself on a Fergie tractor and an old clapped out Austin van in a field, later borrowed a mate's car and his mum (with permission of course, officer) and passed the test at first attempt).

Also, I have always gone across the gearbox to the most relevant gear rather than changing down through all the gears. Having passed my test I was later criticised for this technique by an older, more experienced driver who insisted the only correct way was to go 4-3-2-1. I see the driving schools prefer my method now, at least judging by my sons who have recently had lessons.

Send Clowns
5th May 2004, 20:55
ShyTorque

The Telegraph Motoring Section's advanced driver recommends on modern cars not to use the gears to slow down. The reason he gave that it used to be important was to avoid brake fade, but if you have a problem with modern brakes (even my dodgy Rover TDi has all-round discs) then you've gotta be doing something more serious wrong!

Agree about the hand position - apparently current police driving is to keep hands at the bottom of the wheel at least at high speeds, as this is more stable. Overly hurried movement in an emergency is less likely to spin the car out. The ten-to-two position just has toio much leverage, and the hands pulling down steer too far.

Chiglet

I was taught the same, but only for driving a Navy Landie across Dartmoor. Never hit anything that hard on the road, as crap as the maintenance is now!

Slim20
5th May 2004, 21:01
I spent a rather frustrating 5 minutes (yes, FIVE and i was counting them) yesterday waiting for a laydee driver to 3-point turn her gargantuan Mercedes ML55 Panzer tank in a rather narrow road.

She stuck rigidly to using the 10-2 hands position, conscientiously passing the wheel thru her fingers on each laborious turn of the wheel.

When she had finally completed her 5-minute, 28-point driving meisterwerk I was free to continue my journey.

Needless to say, I don't condone the 10-2 steering position in all driving manoeuvres in the real world.

ShyTorque
5th May 2004, 21:15
SC,

Yes, the old front drums couldn't disperse the heat like today's vented discs with modern friction compounds.

Having once suffered complete brake fade (even though the car had vented discs) just as I started down a twisty 1 in 4 hill after a "spirited" cross-country drive, I can say it's not much fun, especially the 90 right onto the narrow stone-walled river bridge at the bottom...

I'm very conscious of this as my "fun" car has drums all round!

Another reason for going 4-3-2-1 was that some older gearboxes didn't like going across the box, especially the non-synchro ones.

HalesAndPace
5th May 2004, 21:21
Incidentally, the late great Ayrton Senna was adamant that the steering wheel should at all times be pushed, i.e. down hand up, and NEVER pulled, try it some time...Er, considering his demise, maybe his cornering technique/manner of steering isn't to be recommended... :E :E

Watch out for the "Hip-Hop" one-handed steering method, other hand outside window, slapping tune on the roof in time to booming :mad: music, or, the Italian no-hands method - one hand grasping mobile firmly & gesticulating to person he/she is talking to with other hand!!:\

A Comfy Chair
6th May 2004, 00:11
During my somewhat limited time so far as a driver, I have been under the impression that the reason for "feeding" the wheel through has to do with the airbags fitted. If you have your arm across the wheel when it fires, you get a nice arm into the face, which I would believe could cause some fairly hefty injuries based on the speed at which they inflate.

(Maybe Paracab or someone with experience in this field would have some more info?)

I do, as always, stand to be corrected.

Northern Chique
6th May 2004, 01:07
Defensive driving techniques include standard use of 10-2 positioning on the wheel as as earlier stated there is always at least one hand firm on the wheel and slippage is minimised. Never place part of your hand or arm through the wheel as even a decent pothole will ruin your day as the wheel effectively dislocates or fractures it. (extremely common in even low speed vehicle collisions).

Another risk to crossing arms or hands across the body of a steering wheel is airbags. Airbags are designed to be inflated at a specific rate to a fully inflated bag that has a predetermined distance allowed for travel and inflation to minimise interference with the driver and thus optimise survival as the driver hopefully is cushioned by a deflating airbag. The integrity of the airbag will also be compromised if something pierces the envelope on deployment.

Anything in front of a deploying airbag envelope and within the inflation range will break and / or propel the object in the direction of travel of the inflating airbag. While there is the argument that steering wheel deployed airbags can injure or kill, in many cases, the victim is not wearing a seat belt, is too small for the recommended seat size, has a foriegn object (stainless steel travel mug in one injury case) between the deploying airbag and the face, undeployed airbag was not secured and deployed post accident and so on.


The apex of the turn is much smoother and the tendecy to over react in or out of the turn is potentially reduced. Arm over arm and "palming" are not deemed to be appropriate. Even one handled operators use handles attatched to the steering wheel to reduce the incidence of uncontrolled steering wheel slippage.

Lock to lock on a modern car is by far a much reduced effort compared to years previous. 10 to 2 is easier now than was then! Just because some mercedes driving lady upset your day, is not reason to condem a technique. One wonders if the turn she was making was making full use of the space available or the vehicle has a large turning circle.

Some of the SUV's and large sedans have lousy turn circles and thus take more room or more turn adjustments. A home example is our Mercedes vans will turn on a dime, where as our older F150's take the equiviant area of a 3 trailer road train to turn a circle!


Father dear father still races and for arguments sake did Paris Dakar using the standard defensive driving methods. The fast pace, turns and jumps are hard on vehicle and driver. Hard locks arent recommended as is places undue stress on steering assemblies, bearings and suspension. My emergency driving also employs the same technique although is quite uncomfortable in the van verses the more traditional car type angle of steering wheel. In the vans I use 1/4 to 3 but even then its tiring. To shift the seat foward sufficiently results in my knees being impaled on the fire wall.


Gearing used to be sequential, then with the advent of synchro and no longer needing to double dance on the clutch, one could drift between apropriate gears. The time has once again come full circle as most electronic sequential gearboxes have reduced to sequential gear changes again. Mercedes van gearboxes are a notable pain as the sequential jarring between gears both up and down are apparently an acceptable fault!!!!!!!!!!!

Not good for the patients... So adaptive measures are being used and Mercedes have come out with an after market stop gap gadget that reduces the lag but is not standard with new vehicles, but believe me, most manual gearbox drivers would do better. So most of our crews prefer to drive the things in manual mode. Why they couldnt make an automatic gearbox with a manual over-ride instead of the manual gearbox with an electronic shifter is beyond me. They have their good points though.

Most defensive driving techniques are about preparation and consideration. If you corner effectively at an appropriate speed, you probably wont have to shift you hands much at all! Bad driving is hard on equipment, fatiguing and eventually it is bound to end up bending something.

Jerricho
6th May 2004, 01:32
One thing that has surprised me here in sunny Manitoba is some of the things you do in your driving test.

I took my original driving test 14 years ago in Australia, and there were some big no-nos that if you did you would fail your test immediately. The big one I remember is while reversing you required 2 hands on the wheel at all times. Not required here. The picture they actually show you in the highway code shows matey with they old arm draped over the pax seat. And when turning at an intersection, I was always told you should never point the nose of your car into the intersection while waiting (Incase you got rear ended and pushed into the path of oncoming traffic). Once again...........taught and encouraged. And it also says that when your being overtaken, you should slow down and move over. Now, if I'm doing the speed limit and some **** decides he wants to break the speed limit and overtake, that's fine. I'll maintain my speed, but me slowing down for this just ain't gonna happen.

But the thing that me in fits of laughter was what happened to Mrs Jerricho. When she was taught to drive (in UK), she was told that a full stop at a stop sign required the hand brake to come on. We'll put aside the right or wrong of that for a second. On completion of her test, she was told she nearly failed because of it. The reason.......the testing person told her that doing that was wrong because the person behind could smack into the back of her. When she fronted him and said "It says in black and white in the book that if you run into the back of somebody, it's your fault". The tester then replied "Well, you're gonna annoy somebody!". And this was his reason for marking her down on her test.

Northern Chique
6th May 2004, 01:35
Reversing is a whole new ball park!!!!!!!!! Gimme a set of decent wing mirrors anytime.

Jerricho... has your lady unstrung the basterd yet????

henry crun
6th May 2004, 01:40
A Comfy Chair, the practice of feeding the wheel through the hands was recommended many years before airbags were even thought of.

Jerricho
6th May 2004, 01:51
N.C. - I was kind of hoping I was going to get the same guy for my test and do the exact same thing and see what he would do. And I had her 'debrief' sheet with me. Oh boy, I was going to have some fun.

Instead, I had some **** who told me I started my reverse park in the wrong position. He said I should have started the procedure with the back of my car inline with the back of the car I was reversing on. I questioned him whether I was too far from the curb, was I too far from the car infront or behind, had I touched the curb or other cars....basically, what had I done wrong with the procedure. All he could say was that I didn't start in the correct position. I told him I didn't have to reverse as far. Once again he told me I didn't start in the correct position. I asked him had I passed the test, and when he said yes I said to him "Good, you're full of shit now give me my licence". (Yeah I know. I'm a big tough guy.)

West Coast
6th May 2004, 04:33
In LA....

one hand on the wheel, the other on the pistol.

fishtits
6th May 2004, 09:17
Rally drivers will hold the wheel anywhere they can get hold of it... trust me, ever wondered what that bit of bright tape at 12 o clock was for?

I'm not so sure that Rally drivers would agree that they hold the wheel anywhere they can get hold of it, although they do cross their arms.... The white mark on the steering wheel is a quick visual reference to ensure steering wheels are in the straight ahead position.

FT

MadsDad
6th May 2004, 10:17
Having spent many years watching rally drivers at work from close quarters (the adjacent seat, generally while screaming something like '100 to sharp hairpin left' or something) I can guarantee they will hold the wheel anyway they can if necessary.

With one exception. You will NEVER see a rally driver put his thumbs inside the wheel (except, possibly, for his first event. But after that, and after the doctors have taken the plasters off and his thumbs have healed, never again). :E

Mr Chips
6th May 2004, 10:28
No experienced driver would dream of doing the same thing, cos’ it’s a) positively [email protected]@dy dangerous

Funnily enough, a friend of mine is a qualified driving instructor, and always uses 10 to 2. Having driven with her many times, she has more control of the vehicle using that method, than I do using any other method. I drive vans quite regularly, and it is far safer to use 10 to 2 (or close) to control the vehicle.

Racing driving is different - you are taught to cross your arms, but lets face it, that isn't exactly normal driving!

So, in the absence of anything qualifying the above comment about it being dangerous.....

Jerricho
6th May 2004, 11:29
I drive vans quite regularly, and it is far safer to use 10 to 2 (or close) to control the vehicle.

You mean it's far safer when your not on the road, my friend! :p

Lukeafb1
6th May 2004, 11:55
Danger signals are flashing. T.I.M. is being friendly! Is it because Mad Dog and Gut Muncher are closing in? Don’t think I’m fooled for one second, Proot!!

Paracab,

Yep, been driving for 35 years without using the “ten to two” position and never had an accident (apart from being shunted in the back).

Mr Chips,

You’ve rather damaged your argument by admitting that your driving instructor friend is a lady! Ladies (in UK) should stick rigidly to the left hand seat and hand out the sarnies’ and coffee, but NEVER, NEVER try to read a map!

Dons Kevlar jacket once again.
:p :p

Mr Chips
6th May 2004, 12:36
You’ve rather damaged your argument by admitting that your driving instructor friend is a lady! Ladies (in UK) should stick rigidly to the left hand seat and hand out the sarnies’ and coffee, but NEVER, NEVER try to read a map!
Now now Luke, surely driving instructor is an ideal job for a lady. She sits in the passenger seat and tells the driver what to do without actually driving herself.... a job most ladies are born to do

Can i share your kevlar?

of course, none of the above applies to the ladies of the expedition

Chips
happy to be the one that checks the contents of articles of clothing....(if ya get my meaning!)

DishMan
6th May 2004, 12:41
I do think Ms Blue Diamond should enlighten us here. She is one of the few posters who really has held a "special driving skills required" job!

Paracab
6th May 2004, 13:16
Yep, been driving for 35 years without using the “ten to two” position and never had an accident (apart from being shunted in the back).

Well, thats that sorted then. Overwhelming evidence.

We've all been doing it wrong without even realising it, I stand corrected.

BillHicksRules
6th May 2004, 14:48
Dear all,

The reason that I was told to use the 10 to 2 position was to teach the learner driver the correct approach speeds for corners, junctions, roundabouts, etc. The logic was that if you could not make the turn correctly and in time using this method then your approach speed was too high.

Cheers

BHR

timmcat
6th May 2004, 14:53
Did a bit of race driver training in my youth, and one of the first things tought was the 1/4 to three - 1/4 past three position on the wheel, but the hands rarely leaving that position except for sharp hairpin turns. I still use the technique where possible - not text book stuff I know but very precise when driving swiftly (crap when parking though).

lasernigel
6th May 2004, 15:06
Best driving test ever in HM's. 40 tons +,tiller in each hand and big gearstick between legs...don't try overtaking in yer beetle mate might forget which side of the road I should be on.

Bob Brown
6th May 2004, 15:13
10-2 or 9-3, both work, but the 10-2 position is better.
Having passed my IAM test at 18 (many years ago) it was forced on me then, but I still use it most of the time now.
The reason is, in any situation, you will have enough leverage with one hand on the wheel, whilst using the phone or changing gear, to be able to steer around any unforseen dangers.

A good driver, will be no slower using this than any other method. Have yo tried to keep pace with a trained police driver?

Biggles Flies Undone
6th May 2004, 15:36
with one hand on the wheel, whilst using the phone

Can't help noticing that you live in Crawley..... ;)

Lukeafb1
6th May 2004, 15:51
Bob Brown,

You mean all the trained police drivers who consistently exceed the speed limit when not on an emergency? Are they trained to do that??:E :E

Binoculars
6th May 2004, 15:58
I suspect Ms Blue Diamond will be here shortly, given that her attention has been drawn to this thread, so there is something I have wanted to ask said lady when she arrives.

Driving in reverse gear at 100kph is something BD has apparently only just missed out on achieving. No doubt this was not achieved in a VW Beetle, but I have wondered since she posted it what sort of vehicle was involved. Given that reverse gear ratios are usually roughly equivalent to or lower than first gear, I can only assume that the vehicle involved was either a two speed automatic or an extremely high performance machine. Since the baddies from whose clutches these drivers are being trained to escape would be unlikely to be driving said Beetles themselves I suppose that's perfectly in tune.

But Bluey, put me out of my misery. It's an interesting concept, driving in reverse at 100kph. Definitely not for the faint-hearted.

Lukeafb1
6th May 2004, 16:17
Binos,

100km/hr in reverse? Dead easy, if you have a 1960s DAF.

Biggles Flies Undone
6th May 2004, 16:18
...... or back over a cliff....

BlueDiamond
6th May 2004, 16:22
You're correct, Dishman ... I have had a lot of highly specialised driver training, much of it to do with counter terrorist stuff and all of it involving the world-famous Hendon system (which advocates the ten-to-two steering position.)

There are many good reasons for using this method of steering and they are all related to safety. It would be difficult to go into each reason in turn without making this post several pages in length but let me say that it is the safest and best method ever devised for pointing a vehicle precisely where you need it to go while maintaining perfect body balance and line of sight.

An interesting exercise we used to do (race-track, not public roads) was an evasive manoeuvres one where we were required to travel the entire circuit as fast as possible in reverse and using only the external and internal rear-view mirrors. In the car with you were three fellow students whose function was to make sure you never turned your head and to cause as much distraction as possible. This they would achieve by turning the sound system on and off, running the windows up and down, waving their arms about, screaming, "We'll all be killed ..." and so on.

As you drove your circuit in reverse, another vehicle containing the instructors would be travelling at the front of your car with lights and sirens and the vehicle dodging and weaving from side to side. At odd intervals throughout the exercise, orange cones would be placed in narrow formation through which you had to travel without hitting them.

No form of steering was permitted except for the Hendon-prescribed push/pull and the instructors, being inches from your own car would soon see if you did the wrong thing. As you would all know, a vehicle travelling backwards is extremely sensitive to even the most minute steering changes and the only way those changes could be done with safety was with push/pull. The two guys who thought they knew better were the two who rolled the cars. They failed the course. What speeds did we reach? My own personal best was 98Kph (about 61 Mph) ... I always felt peeved that I never quite managed the ton but then nobody else did either.

The push/pull/ten-to-two method of steering is invaluable in keeping you safe whether it's on a busy road at 30 miles an hour or a closed race track at 98 kilometres an hour in reverse. Oh, and when I was rally driving, I never handled the car any other way and I know many other rally drivers who have always said they would never manage without it, one of whom was State champion here several years in a row. Once you have practiced enough to be proficient, it is the most natural and comfortable thing in the world.

If you think it can't be done at speed, get yourself down to the Metropolitan Police Driver Training School at Hendon and watch people doing it all day, every day. Real skill, real precision and absolute poetry to watch.

Binos ... just read your post ... we used two types. the Ford LTD Fairlanes because these, as our work cars, were the ones with which we were the most familiar and also the ones we would be using if anything "went down". The other cars were Holden Statesman Caprices. Both were six cylinder and not "worked" as we needed to learn these things in the vehicles we used normally.

Lukeafb1
6th May 2004, 16:23
Biggles,

Now you're being very silly!

On the other hand, yep, that'll do it!!:ok:

M.Mouse
6th May 2004, 16:29
Now, if I'm doing the speed limit and some **** decides he wants to break the speed limit and overtake, that's fine. I'll maintain my speed, but me slowing down for this just ain't gonna happen.

Ah, yes! The 'you're a **** but I am a bigger one for making the situation worse' syndrome.

Binoculars
6th May 2004, 16:43
Yep, Jerricho, not one of your smarter posts. The whole problem with multi lane driving derives from people whose attitude is "I'm doing the speed limit, anybody who wants to pass me can get stuffed". Smugness personified, and demonstrating a critical lack of understanding of the dynamics of smooth travel.

In my neck of the woods there is nothing wider than two lanes either way, and that is rare, but I recently drove a few times the 100km from Brisbane to the Gold Coast on a four lane, sometimes five lane freeway. The middle lane was the outside one I used, and that was only twice; the rest of the time I spent in the inside two lanes. It staggered me watching the inside lane empty ahead of me while drivers sat on each others arses in the right hand lanes.

But as BD has said here or elsewhere, everybody who posts on these threads about driving thinks they are the best. Maybe we have to start with that attitude.

I of course am exempt from scrutiny because I'm a great driver.

:sad:

Out Of Trim
6th May 2004, 18:05
I usually feel must comfortable using a 9 - 1 technique for most situations - as in a rhd manual car with left hand doing the gear changes it gives your right hand slightly more range of steering input either way under most conditions; however my car is twenty years old with a rather larger size steering wheel - (without Airbag) than you find on more modern cars these days.

However, I find myself using varying techniques automatically at different times and conditions and with different types of vehicle on or off road. ie. No technique will be perfect for all circumstances.

I suppose the 10 - 2 technique is a good starting place when learning, then most drivers will experiment later with feeding the wheel or not at certain times with experience.. ;)

25 years without an accident - and I don't exactly hang around!

Dr Jekyll
6th May 2004, 19:02
10-2 or 9-3 is OK. Anything else, crossing arms, steering one handed while changing gears/holding the roof on with the other, is ludicrous.

Where do people get the strange idea that passing the wheel through the hands takes longer than crossing arms? And what do the hand crossing people do when their wrists meet in the middle?

Jerricho
6th May 2004, 22:51
Hang on a second Mr. Mouse. This directive as per the highway code manual is taught for both single lane and multi lane situations (looking back, I guess I didn't make that obvious). Let's take the situation of driving on a single lane road. This isn't, as you so eloquently put it "'you're a **** but I am a bigger one for making the situation worse' syndrome", which I definately don't subscribe to. When I was taught to drive, when being overtaken, you maintain a constant speed and direction. If somebody decides they are going to overtake and this requires exceeding the speed limit to do so, that is their choice. I didn't imply I'll accelerate to make their life difficult or swerve into them in an attempt to baulk them. I will continue at a constant speed. I've seen instances of somebody overtaking in this situation and realising they have misjudged it and hit the breaks, to have the car they are overtaking hit the breaks at the same time..........and that's where it get's very nasty indeed.

Guess I should have explained it a little better. But in no way do I condone the good old outside lane sitter "I'm all right jack stuff you!" attitude that's apparent the world over.

Actually, I've just read through the post you're referring to. Doesn't sound very intelligent. Sorry folks.

Aussierotor
7th May 2004, 00:44
Im guilty-------only use one hand when driving the endless miles of country roads.
Now ,when having a bit of fun in the wet and dirt roads or even just an extra fast run somewhere i,ll use the 10-2 position.

A lot of racing cars dont have much steering lock so you hardly ever adjust your grip on the wheel.Try the same on an old yank tank.The push pull method would have you up a tree in no time.

If you know your car its not a problem.But to know your car and where the wheels are pointing you first have to go and have a bit of fun in it.
When i went to a power steering car i was over correcting like mad------bit of practice and now a piece of cake.
When doing rally style driving on the dirt in a large rear wheel drive sedan the hands are going mad like holding onto a hot dinner plate--no time for 10-2 push and pull method.

ITS ALL ABOUT KNOWING YOUR CAR

looking back over the years i dont know how i survived---i was a loose cannon behind the wheel ,i must admit but my only accident(rollover) was racing speedway.
The oldman upstairs has worse in mind for me i think