Accumilating hours

[Andy_20]

If i was to undertake a modular course from Cabair, and recieved my ppl, would i be able to accumilate hours flying in say america where flying is cheaper?

Im unsure whether to undertake a modular course or save and complete an integrated course! Which would be the easier route?

[Pole Hill]

Andy_20,
There's plenty on this forum regarding integrated versus modular; if you seach this subject I'm sure most of your questions will have been answered. The 'easiest' route will be the one that suites you the best...
If you are taking the modular route then there is no reason why you have to hour build through Cabair. You can hour build where you like, just like you could do any other part of the training elsewhere. This is the beauty of modular, you are not binded to one FTO. E.g. You could do the PPL at Cabair, Hourbuild in the USA, do the CPL at Multiflight, the ME at Oxford, the IR at Tayflite....
Hope this helps,
POL.

[Squak2002]

Hello,

Please, for the love of God, don’t mention Integrated and Modular in the same sentence. It’s not worth the inevitable fight that will follow. :{

Any hour you fly in your training will all stand to you, no matter which country it is. There is no problem in you completing your PPL in Cabair and heading to the US for your hours building. Providing the organisation is approved and the aircraft is certified (goes without saying).

Happy flying!

[Jinkster]

Integrated or Modular,

try getting "the guide to getting a cpl" by clive hughes, excellent book and shows the pitfalls and benfits of both modular and integrated.

Available online and from transair.

All the best,

Jinkster

[Stoney X]

Squak2002,

You said
Providing the organisation is approved and the aircraft is certified
If I'm reading your post correctly, you are saying that hour building can only be done in an aircraft belonging to a JAR approved FTO. I do not think this is correct. I'm sure I can head off to South Africa, where there are no JAA approved FTO's at present, and use a friends aircraft to do hour building. Is there anything in Lasors that says I can't do this?

Regards
Stoney X

[Pole Hill]

Stoney X,
To the best of my understanding, I agree with you. Do the hourbuilding where you like, but you can only receive the JAA training from approved FTO's.

[Charlie Zulu]

The above is correct in that you can hour build in any aeroplane and any country whatsoever.

If you decide to fly in America though you'll have to ensure you obtain an FAA PPL.

Quite a simple process of sending a fax to the FAA (in America) and one to the CAA (UK). They'll match the two up and the FAA will send you a letter of verification.

Once you have one of those you can head to America, go to the FSDO (local FAA office - one in every major town) and obtain your FAA PPL for free!!! Then a checkout with an instructor at the school of your choice to ensure you're safe to fly.

So go and get your JAA PPL at Cabair (or anywhere else) if you wish and then go and hour build in the USA!!! Don't limit yourself to JAA approved schools in the USA though - you can go to ANY school or club in the USA to rent an aeroplane.

No Visa is required if you're just going to be hourbuilding in the USA.

Best wishes,

Charlie Zulu.

[onehunga]

And just to make it 100% clear who is approved for JAR TRAINING the following link to the CAA should help:

JAR-FCL Approved FTO's (http://www.caa.co.uk/publications/publicationdetails.asp?id=1211)

[FlyingForFun]

Charlie Zulu is the only person who's so far attempted to give a full answer to Andy's first question.

His post is basically correct. You can hour-build anywhere you like. I have no idea why anyone is talking about approval or certification for hour-building... if it's an aeroplane, and if you can log time on it, then you can hour-build on it, whatever country it is registered in.

In order to fly an N-registered aircraft in the USA, you must (as CZ has) have an FAA license (according to the FARs). CZ has described the basic process for this well, other than two minor points. First, you need to send a cheque to the CAA along with the form that CZ mentions. Second, the "checkout with an instructor" that he talks about is more than a checkout - it is also a Biannual Flight Review, which needs to go into your logbook, and is a legal requirement for being able to use your FAA license. Any reputable FAA school will be able to help you through this process, especially those which deal with foreign pilots regularly.

FFF
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[BillieBob]

I think Squawk 2002 is probably referring to the bit in JAR-FCL 1.155 that states:

Experience. An applicant for a CPL(A) who is not a graduate from an integrated flying training course shall have completed as a pilot on aeroplanes having a certificate of airworthiness issued or accepted by a JAA Member State at least 200 hours of flight time.

Provided that the aeroplane is operated by a reputable organisation in an ICAO member state, I doubt that there would ever be any questions raised about its acceptability.

[Charlie Zulu]

Hi FlyingForFun,

Thanks for correcting my post, I meant to write a bi-annual flight review is required to validate the FAA PPL.

As you say the bi-annual flight review consists of some ground school and a flight. Its what a checkout would include anyway, especially one in a foreign country, going through the airspace and procedures on the ground.

Just ensure you get the BFR signed off (instructor endorsement) in the back of the logbook...

I was in between study sessions on module 1 of the ATPLs (distance learning)... thus the rushed and half-correct post! :O

Best wishes,

Charlie Zulu.

PS. Oh and how silly of me to forget the CAA processing fee of £15!!!! ;)

[onehunga]

FFF - errr, cos 99.9% of these posts end up off thread with people asking about PPL's or hour building then bolting on training and thinking they can do the professional licences nearly anywhere cos they are mislead by "creative" marketing in the back of magazines.

[Andy_R]

if it's an aeroplane, and if you can log time on it, then you can hour-build on it, whatever country it is registered in.

Would that include PFA types or does it have to be on CofA ???

[FlyingForFun]

Would that include PFA types or does it have to be on CofA ???I was certainly under the impression that a PFA type counts (as long as it's an aeroplane, not a microlight etc). The CAA certainly didn't question any of the time I logged on PFA aircraft. But BillieBob's quote suggests that may not be the case.... I may need to do some more research to check up on this one, unless anyone can say definitively!

FFF
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[Charlie Zulu]

I wouldn't mind knowing the definitive answer as I have an offer to buy a share of a Jodel (the offer is still open).

Although I have many more hours than necessary for the JAA CPL, I still need to ensure any hours will count towards the issue of a JAA ATPL (eventually!).

Without checking any documentation I would have thought that a Permit to Fly, whilst not necessarily a full CofA is still recognised by the CAA as a legal certificate for an aeroplane's fitness to fly...

If this isn't the case then how about the FAA's "Experimental" category of aeroplanes (a little like the Permit to Fly)?

[AppleMacster]

As FFF says, any hour flown in a Permit type counts, so long as it's a Group A aircraft. There is a link to the list on this page: PFA (http://www.pfa.org.uk/aircraft_technical/accepted_aircraft/) (I didn't link to the document as it's a pdf).

AppleMacster

[Charlie Zulu]

Hi Pressman,

Er... hour building on an integrated course is not required.

This is for modular courses normally...

But if its a modular course that you're undertaking at an integrated school then NO you don't have to do your hours building with them. If they say you are required to then I'd suggest going elsewhere!!!

Best wishes,

Charlie Zulu.