Mfts???

[BEagle]

I note from an item on Bloomberg TV that Serco has pulled out of the bid for MFTS. 't Bungling Baron Waste o' Space's bid had already been binned or perhaps they 'elected to withdraw' in fluffy-speak - so I guess it's now just down to 3 horses:

Ascent - Lockheed Martin, The VT Group and Rolls-Royce plc
Vector - Kellogg Brown and Root Limited and EG&G/Lear Siegler Inc.
Thales Defence Ltd & The Boeing Company

[lasernigel]

This is now confirmed on, www.forbes.com on their business page.Though Serco's home page has kept quiet.

[Gainesy]

Here's an idea, a bit radical I know but, why not form something called Flying Training Command...?
:confused:

[BEagle]

Arrest that Unbeliever!!

Big picture.....I hear what you say....jointery.....vision.....management initiative....mumble, mumble.

What - you mean an air force which both owns and mans its own flying training aeroplanes? Oh deary me no - that'd never catch on!

[pr00ne]

BEagle,

Why actually own a training aeroplane, what's the point? How many trainers do the world's largest airlines own?

BAES pulled out of MFTS over risk, they thought there was too much being expected by the MOD in terms of commercial risk.....

[soddim]

And we know how risky it is to give the job to BWoS.......

[BEagle]

And there was me thinking that BWoS had been downselected.....:\

And how many of the major airlines even bother with training at all? But then if it's thought that there are any parallels to be drawn between airline and military requirements.......:rolleyes:

And I know that convention requires that one shouldn't start a sentence with a conjunction - and that prepositions aren't things which sentences should be ended with;)

[whowhenwhy]

So now that you've "retired" BEags and got the hang of all these big words, any thoughts about taking a job at the Purple Learning Centre upsetting JOs who can only just write their name??:ok:

[BEagle]

No problemo. 30p per mile to get there and €100 per hour!

Having given the odd chum a hand with that tedious stuff that used to arrive in big manilla envelopes from ISS, the standard of written English of many folk left me somewhat aghast. I guess Cranwell don't bother with such things nowadays; it's of more importance that digi-yoof can carry logs across Lincolnshire at the double in Clockwork Squaddie 95 cabbage kit pursued by friendly Rocks than it is for him to be able to express himself in half-decent prose. (Yes - I know. Excessively long sentence alert!)

Split infinitives and the infamous grocer's apostrophe are become more and more commonplace, I fear.

[keithl]

BEagle - split infinitives are OK now, did you know? Heard an academic on the radio saying that they were only frowned on by the old school because Latin infinitives were a single word, therefore the 2 parts of English infinitives should be kept together!

Sorry to thoughtlessly wander off topic. I only wanted to helpfully bring you up to date.

[BEagle]

Well I don't accept split infinitives. Et Latina est langua mortuus quam mortissime! Which is about as much of my schoolboy Latin as I can remember.

Imagine digi-yoof having to learn amo amas amat or mensa mensa mensam at the age of 8 as some of us had to. No doubt it would "Do 'is 'ed 'in" or whatever the modern yoofspeak vernacular is!

Where were we? Oh yes - MFTS. All those in favour...??

[whowhenwhy]

Quo Vadis.....Ave Caesar!

Oh and as far as the actual matter in hand is concerned, AYE!

[Impiger]

MFTS like so many of the new contracted services or PFI arrangements is grounded in the right financial principles but carries extraordinary operational risk.

From the finance point of view owning training equipment when you can lease it is crazy under the current set of government accounting procedures. Not owning the instructors is more debatable - you need a balance between cost and inculcating the right military ethos.

What is crazy is that when folk in MFTS and elsewhere talk 'risk' they mean financial risk. When I talk risk I'm talking about risk of failure. Failure to deliver the output be it trained pilots or a service that delivers water and clears away my station's sewage under Project Aquatrine. The finaciers quite blithely talk of 'failure to deliver to contract means no payment' - and they smile. I say failure to deliver the service may mean I'm richer in cash terms but I've got no new pilots and those that remain are ankle deep in sh*t.

The big boys are leaving the field because MOD are indeed trying to place huge financial risks on their shoulders. They know (perhaps better than us) that they can't make a profit and maintain anything like the required output and they don't want to be branded as the company that left the RAF (literally in some cases) in the pooh!!

[BEagle]

"Project Aquatrine, the MOD and GB wide Water and Sewerage PPP Project"

Does this mean that MoD has finally given up trying even to get its own $hit sorted out - and is having to get contractors to do it?

I was once accused of 'well-poisoning' the MFTS debate by PPRuNery by some little tw@t from Binnsworth at a RIAT corporate hospitality session. Interestingly, a few minutes later I saw him sycophantically sucking up to some multi-starred wheel before commenting that he thought MFTS was a 'crock of $hit'. "How interesting", I interjected, "that wasn't your opinion 5 minutes ago when you accused me of criticising it!" Two-faced little pratt!

I share your concern, Impiger old mate. And I hope that there are a few more in the towers of power as honest and open about their concerns as you are!

[pr00ne]

Impiger,

The current systen has manifestly failed to work, just take a look at the current training system.
Whilst accepting your point about risk in a PFI concept, it also applies to the current set up, if the system turns to a bag of S***e what do you do?

The REAL risk in all of this is that the current crop of PFI projects will simply fail to deliver any meaningful commercial reward, resulting in contractors declining to bid.

Anyone heard much from FSTA recently?

[BEagle]

Really?? You reckon that the current training system has failed to work, do you? Careful, people could get into poo for suggesting things like that....

Just take a look back 30 years and see what we did; it worked well and turned out hundreds of well-trained pilots. But it was costly - as is anything else of high quality.

FSTA? As far as I'm aware, the process grinds slowly forwards.....as the 10s get ever older.

[pr00ne]

BEagle,

Well, look at the hours and experience the average stude has on reaching AFTS these days, streamed at the end of elementary phase ( primary in my day) and only do BFTS if you are selected FJ.

I suppose the percieved failure that I maybe rashly quoted is purely fiscal, leading up to the situation of; UAS, MELIN, Multi-Engined Trg and straight onto type?

30 Years ago it was, for me anyway, Chipmunk, JP T3, JPT4, Gnat, Hunter, OCU, and then onto type on Squadron. Maybe more expensive than now but less effective?

Oh, and what's a hold?

[BEagle]

Mate - that's exactly what I said in a private e-mail not so long ago. Some two-faced $hit leaked it and I ended up doing an Axminster shuffle. So make sure you stay well anonymous - the system doesn't like being told the truth!