If pilot unions could stop maintenance outsourcing, would they?

[natedog74]

Came across one of those ‘frequent flyer beware’ articles bemoaning airlines’ trend toward eliminating in-house MRO in favor of independent companies and, increasingly, Latin American providers.
Just got me to thinking: isn’t that a nice dilemma. Either find yourself thumbing thru MEL more and more often and be more jittery about every indication discrepancy knowing that your $30/hr A&P buddies have fallen by the wayside to make room for underpaid, FAA unsupervised union- (and benefit-) free Mr. Fixit, OR (try to) put your foot down, watch company bottom line decline, and your job go!
So it’s them or you. But at what price? I know I’m exaggerating but one must wonder how far will the beancounters go to save a penny….

[AA717driver]

Dog--I've never liked the idea of outsourcing mx. From the first time I heard of it when Crandall tried to set up an operation south of the border to the Turkish overhauled engines that blew up on Delta and ValuJet(nothing against Turks, there are plenty of sleezy operators in the U.S., too.) I had a problem with the lack of FAA oversight.

If a JAA or FAA repair station is used, I don't have much heartburn but "back alley overhauls" scare me. IMO.TC

[Blacksheep]

EASA (JAA) and FAA registered aircraft must be maintained by an MRO that holds the appropriate authority and submits to the consequent audits and supervision. The idea of widespread sub-standard 'backyard' maintenance is often mentioned but rarely substantiated. Those pilots that do fly aircraft registered under flags of convenience are presumably aware of the attendent reduction in regulatory oversight. That said, we've done (we're a JAR145 approval holder) maintenance for operators registered with authorities such as the Seychelles and found them to be just as fussy about standards as the FAA or JAA.

If we're going to have allegations about low standard MROs lets have some verifiable facts instead of generalised finger pointing. Meanwhile, if your aircraft is registered with the FAA, EASA (JAA) or 99% of the world's regulators there's little to fear - the maintainance is done to the standards laid down by those authorities.

Whether EASA or the FAA and their standards of supervisory oversight are up to scratch is another subject and another debate. Their audits for the grant of approval are certainly stiff enough and EASA's regular follow up audits certainly keep our QA people awake at night.

[Nineiron]

The trend towards approved organisations has removed the responsibility from individual maintenance licence holders to a 'corporate responsibility' situation.
We now have to rely entirely on the integrity of regular audits as the only control over the beancounters who increasingly regard the MEL as the 'Maximum Maintenance List'
Outsourcing is not the bogey its made out to be. Even with an 'in house 'operation much of the component overhaul work is often sent to third parties anyway.

[TURIN]

Blacksheep
Meanwhile, if your aircraft is registered with the FAA, EASA (JAA) or 99% of the world's regulators there's little to fear - the maintainance is done to the standards laid down by those authorities.

With all due respect.

COBBLERS!

I wiil not elaborate anyfurther as I value my job. :uhoh:

[oldebloke]

A lot of Big Co's would like the opportunity to reduce their 'Line MTC people'to simply having a skeleton Daily Inspection crew(fluid/press' checked ,and signed out ,once every 36 hrs),and have 'contract' people available for the big jobs etc...IF this was fully authorized by the FED's I couldn't see a pilots Union having a say(they don't pay for the MTC)....But can't see it happening soon due to the MTC unions....:confused:

[Ignition Override]

Anyone who is under the impression that the (US) FAA has one set of standards for passenger companies AND smaller freight airlines is totally naive about the cost/benefit formulas and bureaucratic, eh---"oversight", shall we call it.

When pilots from two cargo airlines are told that they WILL NOT declare emergencies for an engine flame-out (during cruise flight), possibly even flying with an engine on fire, because they could be fired, says something about their employers. THAT former freight pilot spoke with me recently in upstate N.Y. The tower controller asked them if they were ok-they never declared an emergency, even with smoke and flames coming out of the old recip plane. He previously had flown fast jets for a 'European' Navy squadron. Imagine how much shoddy maintenence record-keeping could meet the light of day! Imagine the expense as the s**t hits the fan@@@@@@@

Knowing that the FAA would probably not back up the pilots says even more.

The former owner of one of these companies, quite a legend (has chased pilots around his planes...punched an FBO worker in the face when the rental car was not ready), taxied away from an FAA inspector during a ramp check, and took off solo in a Learjet.:E I guess certain FAA mid-level guys were afraid of the owner, the way the county sheriffs were afraid of a local violent redneck family near Len Lew's (east of Starkville, MS) in the early 70's........one victim airlifted by heli.

Ever heard of Valuejet? You don't anymore. They "erased" their former name after they bought another airline. Unique solution for changing its (very besmirched) name. Valuejet's first pilots were Eastern scabs, but this was merely a coincidence. The GOP's governmental blessings which allow corporate sharks to totally bleed dry/cannabalize airlines (i.e. Lorenzo [3 bodyguards]/Icahn) +upper level FAA indifference toward line inspector's concerns=dead passengers or crewmembers. The classic example.:ouch:

[Nineiron]

And it gets worse with US reg aircraft round the world that do not fly over US territory. The FAA aren't the only culprits though, they just happen to be the biggest.

[Blacksheep]

TURIN - I stand by my statement but do please note that I didn't pass judgement on those standards in practice. I merely said that they apply standards during audit. Let me share a story.

Our local airport had a contract with the FAA to perform calibration of the Airport navaids - ILS, G/S DME etc. The day they were leaving they couldn't start the aircraft and they asked for our help. I went into the aft compartment to check the battery and found the remains of a clapped out old lead acid battery hanging by its cables. The battery tray had almost completely corroded away. I wasn't too impressed with the overall condition of the rest of the aeroplane either.

We serviced the battery (two days work), rebuilt the battery tray "to sample" as a 'temporary repair' (we're not an FAA Repair Station) and adjusted the generator voltage per AMM. The pilots got a clearance from Head Office to return to base with the temporary repair and off they went. If the FAA can't keep their own aircraft in satisfactory condition according to their own regulations, what does that say about their standards?

It doesn't matter where you go for maintenance, study the MRO's own internal standards rather than the price. You might be surprised by the high quality of work offered by many of the cheap off-shore MRO's. Take note of my location at the bottom of my post. That's what the 'unexpected treasures' means.

[Ravintola]

Come on, Blacksheep; your comments smack of glass houses and throwing stones. All is not perfect in that facsimile of Disney Land that is Brunei, as recent posts on "Far East" and "Rumours and News" indicate.

[Ignition Override]

The facility in Dothan, Alabama (nice humid climate-no air conditioning) almost lost a major contract when the FAA, to their credit, discovered some serious problems.

The company (which constantly outsources its work) now keeps its own airline supervisory mechanic at the hangar, in order to allow the facility to keep the contract. Too many planes had six or eight major system problems, never mind those less serious, after flying one or two legs following an overhaul. A few fairly minor glitches can happen, even at a 'real' airline hangar.

In the 80's a Navy Reserve CV-580 (NAF Washington/Andrews AFB) crashed after departing Dothan. A final check of the elevator cables had been forgotten or checked wrong. Everytime the control yoke/wheel went forward, it would bind and could not be pulled back. I wonder if anyone at a Navy office in the Pentagon was proud of the money which was saved by doing work there. :ugh: