New QF International Services

[jdoz]

At a tourism seminar on the Gold Coast on Thursday, Mr John Borghetti from Qantas announced the following new services;
- Mumbai. 3 x nonstop 747 services from Sydney per week from September 04
- Shanghai. 3 x nonstop A330-300 services per week from sydney from december 04
-14 new weekly services to London within the next 24 months to take up additional slots. 3 x services to London via Hong Kong to being early 2005

cheers!

[Keg]

Mumbai has been previously announced with the 743s.

Shanghai we knew about but hadn't hear of an aircraft type although I think all the smart money was on the A330.

The LHR services were also expected considering the slots QF had recently bought. Via HKG isn't unexpected considering the announcment a few weeks ago regarding rights.

Thanks for the goss on the A330 though! ;)

[Ushuaia]

All interesting stuff. There had been talk of Shanghai being either A330 or B767 but the A330 was always looking the forerunner. The extra slots to LHR - well, a few months ago they were seriously considering SYD-Delhi-LHR but then along came the HKG rights. Which are good to have but there will be heaps of competition on that route! I would have thought Delhi-London would have been smart - there are one or two Indians in England and a few more in India.... Maybe the future will see the Sydney-Mumbai service go through to LHR.

The future picture? Maybe Australia to Europe via Singapore, Hong Kong, India (either DEL or BOM) and......? I tell you, things must be starting to look grim for Bangkok. Currently just the QF1/2. That airport has priced itself out of the game. God forbid the day QF stops flying to Thailand though. :{

[neville_nobody]

Yeah I can see Mumbai being a big hit for an overnight with the operating crew!!!! :O
However it potentially could be a winner as a destination given the increasing middle class in India.

[Animalclub]

I've travelled QF MEL BOM LHR (may have been FRA) some years ago by 747, but I don't think QF had uplift rights ex BOM. The one crew member that I spoke to enjoyed the Bombay layovers. No, he was not Indian.

[separator]

Perhaps the green fees are making it uneconomic to use Bangkok?

sep

[fartsock]

bom-lhr (and to other eur ports) have plenty of capacity and are extremely competitive.

More one world hubbing options through Hkg


FS

[qfcabin]

QF operated through BOM to LHR some years ago for quite a long time..in fact, had a London base in place to service the LHR/BOM sectors. SYD based crews opt into BOM northbound and home from there. Opinions were divided about the place as a slip port but the majority enjoyed it.
And the green fees were quite moderate..it was the forward scout, the snake scout, the fences scout and their families who accompanied you on your round that cost the money!

[Ushuaia]

fartsock,

Very good point about oneWorld hubbing options through HKG. I hadn't considered that - it definitely gives us flex using a combo of QF/BA/CX.

However, what is all the capacity BOM-LHR ? Air India have essentially one daily, occasionally two, and 50% of the time it goes via DEL anyway. British Airways have a daily LHR-BOM. That seems to be about it - is there anything else I'm missing? Out of HKG, however, BA do 2 daily, sometimes 3, CX have got 3 flights daily also and then there's Virgin Atlantic as well. Definitely more competition HKG-LHR compared to BOM-LHR, I would have thought. For the comparison exercise, just consider London as the destination (i.e. don't complicate it with other European ports).

Not that it really matters, it's all good news whichever way you look at it: there are mutabaks and rotis in ALL these slip-ports.....

[Animalclub]

How can QANTAS hub at HKG? If the AUST-HKG-LHR goes ahead they will still only operate to LHR and Australia.

They connect with ONE WORLD carriers now at HKG and it is costing QF (lowering revenue) by transfering passengers to other carriers whether they be ONE WORLD or not.

So I can understand why they want to operate through HKG with pick up rights ex HKG.

With pick up rights ex MUMBAI to LHR (and a good wheeler dealer in India) they will do well... as all India/Europe services are well patronised.

[lambsie]

Betcha... SYD - HKG - LHR in an A340. That's right, an A340. Heard Chief Pilot took one for a spin (figuratively speaking) recently. QF seems to lurve Airbus at the moment. :ok:

[Capt Stabbin]

Yes indeed lambsie. The smart money is on an order for 8-10 A340-5/600's within the next couple of months.

[Mr Seatback 2]

Where did this come from?? Not doubting either of you...just a bit out of the blue.

But then again, nothing would surprise me. I would have thought the last thing QF needed was another aircraft type...or do they think the A330 & A340 are one in the same (evidently they're not, but curious to know what logic is being applied)?

[404 Titan]

Unless QF already has 5th freedom rights through BOM, I can’t see them getting them any time soon. CX have been trying to get additional rights from the Indian authorities for ages with absolutely no luck. Only just recently the Indian authorities called off their talks with the Hong Kong government for no reason. All I can conclude from this is that they are desperately trying to protect Air India from competition. Something they desperately need.

Mr Seatback 2
or do they think the A330 & A340 are one in the same (evidently they\'re not, but curious to know what logic is being applied)?
There is a lot that is similar between the A330 and A340. One of the biggest is the flight crew. Once CCQ’d this is a tremendous saving for an airline.

[Mr Seatback 2]

Well, when you consider the savings QF are trying to implement with their cabin crew divisions as to who flies the A330, I can only surmise adding the A340 would only serve to add more 'flies to the ointment' from a CC perspective.

From a Techie perspective, I knew about the CCQ - does that translate, or is it being considered, for the A380 also?

Essentially, for Intl ops at least, that means:

744GE, 744RR, 744ER, 743, 763, 763RR, A332, A333...and the A380 later on.

Commonality aside, doesn't it just add to the complexity? I can see the logic for purchasing the A345/6 for competitive reasons (eg. SQ & EK have them), but how would they fit in with everything else in the fleet?

Just wildly curious...will they replace aircraft (in which case, my concerns become moot), or in addition to?

Curious...very curious.

[Capt Fathom]

Qantas have input into, and fly almost every longhaul airliner ever built! Doesn't mean they'll buy it. They were heavily invovled in the B777 development!!!

[Left2primary]

Legend has it that QF very recently approached Boeing with an "urgent" order for 6-8 747 ERs expecting to be offered queue jumping preferential treatment .

QF have historically been given this preferred treatment given the very long association between both companies.

Boeing said, "sure, we would love to help you out, how does 2008 sound?".

[apacau]

Legend also has it that Qantas are on the verge of an A340-500 purchase.

[Mr Seatback 2]

Curious to know exactly how many A345's, and indeed where they will be used?

New routes anyone?

[stiffwing]

From as recently as last week, the men on "mag row" are categorically denying that QF are getting A340's in the forseeable future. I think L2prim is pretty close to the mar re -400's..QF wanted a couple off BA like -NLH but apparently work is picking up a bit in the old dart so they wont release them.
Re aust- uk via delhi..Ops were v. keen but commercial wanted the service to arrive in Lhr early AM..Ops pointed out that to do this the service would be often payload limited as an AM arr into london means a midnight arr into VIDP which is fogged out for 40% of the year
, requiring either mumbai or chennai as alternates...lots of extra gas! Commercial would not budge on the matter so thats where it stands.