faa ppl(h) help!!!!

[aerialimages]

I flew 600 plus hours in an R22 on a Faa ppl(h) in the 1990's. After a break of 5 or 6 years I now want to self fly hire. So I get my class 3 faa medical, have a few hours refresher traing by faa instructor (any suggestions?) do a BFR (all for about £1000)and hire an aircraft and take off...or do I?

BHAB website says that before I take off I now need,aswell as the above wait for it, (cough);

A JAA class 2 Medical
JAA Air Law ground exam
JAA Human performance ground exam
Radiotelephony exam
JAA PPL (H) skill test pass
It ALSO MENTIONS THAT FOREIGN LICENCES LIKE MINE THAT HAVE LAPSED ARE SUBJECT TO OTHER PROCEDURES(?), BUT I CANT FIND ANY MENTION IN JAR FCL 2.

About £500 extra pounds!!!! £1000 if you include 2 extra hours instruction to cover the pass/fail element of the JAA ppl Skill Test.

So £2000 plus and some hard work and two medicals just to get in the air, remember I have 600 hours + (and Im only 37!)

Is this true, cant I just hire a n reg aircraft, after my BFR? Are there any to hire in Thames valley?

Please help Rotorhead crew...

[Robbo Jock]

I think that lot's if you want to revalidate a JAA PPL. If you want to revalidate your FAA one, and only intend flying N reg aircraft, your initial idea is probably true.

[aerialimages]

thanks for the quick response, from what I glean from the BHAB site its for non JAA licence holders! I dont have a JAA ppl(h) to revalidate in the first place!

And someone must know if theres any n reg r22 available for sfh in Thames Valley area?

[pilotwolf]

...don't know the answer to your question but as you have an FAA licence maybe you 'd be better off checking the FAA website or call a US based school?

There is NO legal requirement, except for the RT licence, to do anything else, to fly in the UK as the FAA licence is an ICAO issue. However the school you SFH from may make up any rules they like as you ve spent your money in the USA! :(

PW

[mattpilot]

All you really need is a Flight review (and your medical) to make your Faa license current again (assuming its not dependend on a foreign license). Then you can fly N reg aircraft anywhere in the world + foreign registered aircraft within its own countries boarders.

[aerialimages]

Thanks friends, feeling alot better, checked around for FAA BFR, found London Helicopter Centre who do this, still to find out if they will sfh me though....I dig this forum thing..!

[chopperpilot47]

What you were told by the organisation you approached is fortunately all untrue. This happens a lot. I can't make my mind up if they just don't know or are trying to extract your hard earned money.

Let's take things in turn:

Your FAA licence is for life, there is no expiry date. As long as you have an FAA medical and a BFR you are good to go. You do not have to pass JAA/CAA airlaw, human performance, RT or a skills test. You do not need a CAA medical. You hold an ICAO licence which is valid in all 187 contracting states. You can fly N registered helicopters and G registered helicopters both in the UK and abroad. Not being able to fly abroad is again, an inaccurate rumour. The DGAC for example have stated they are quite happy for FAA licence holders to fly G registered helicopters in their airspace. Germany the same.

Some organisations in the UK will invent rules to require you to do all sorts of things. We had a student who was told the same thing by a major UK company (PM if you want their name). I telephoned saying I had an FAA PPL(H) and could I fly their helicopters please. They told me exactly the same thing, CAA medical, air law, performance, RT, flying test etc. When I said I had spoken to the CAA and they had told me I didn't need to do any of those things they agreed immediately but said it was their own company rules. It therefore could not have been ignorance, they clearly knew the rules but wanted my money.

There have been a number of previous threads on this.

Regards,

Chopperpilot47

[pilotwolf]

aerialimages.. if you are talking about LHC at Redhill, they were happy to sfh to me on a FAA CPL with about 1/3 of your hrs, although if I wasn't studying for JAA ATPL they would have preferred I did the Air Law PPL exam. If he's still there try talking to Tim - he trained in US and id very helpful.

chopperpilot47.. to use RT outside of US on non US aircraft you need to complete a form and send it off to someone to validate its use outside of US. There was a thread on this in Private Flying a while back - started by the moderator - Keygrip - maybe a PM to him to clarify the exact details.

PW

[chopperpilot47]

I have sent a PM to keygrip and I await his reply. I must say this is the first I have heard of this. I'll post a reply when I have one.

Chopperpilot47

[pilotwolf]

Found thread it's here... (http://pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=123660)

First I'd heard about it too!

PW

[mattpilot]

I can confirm what keygrip is talking about. I got a license from the FCC too. It costed me around $50 in registration fees.

There are 2 types of licenses. The Restricted one, and the restricted-limited. They are both the same, with the exception that the limited is for foreigners and basically means you can not use it to work in the US. But the form should tell you that.

[chopperpilot47]

Hmmm, I am grateful for the information on the FCC requirement. I don't think they have jurisdiction outside the USA as a matter of law so I have asked them for a ruling on that. I will report back as soon as I receive a reply. The requirement for USA pilots for the FCC licence was done away with some years ago.

Regards,

Chopperpilot47

[md 600 driver]

i have to have a fcc licence buts its for the helicopter not me [i think]

[2244robby]

Nonsense! Providing you have a full FAA license i.e. not one issued on the basis of a UK license then you need nothing further under ICAO regulations to fly in the UK.

It may be a different ball game if your FAA license was issued on the back of a UK license as you have to mainain the UK one in order to keep the FAA one (if you see what I mean?)

There have been several questions about this subject but the ICAO regulations are quite clear on this subject. The crux of the matter is whether you have an FAA license as a stand alone.

[aerialimages]

I think u are right Robby, Im glad I got the FAA licence,,,,

[mattpilot]

A little clarification:

When flying INSIDE the United states, you DO NOT need an FCC license IF you have an FAA pilots license.

However, if you fly OUTSIDE the United States using an FAA pilots license, you DO NEED an FCC license!

Look Here:

http://wireless.fcc.gov/commoperators/rp.html

First 'bullet' should answer your question.

[Lightning_Boy]

I've never had any trouble SFH on my FAA licence and I aint got no FCC. Not saying whether its correct or not, just had to take a standard check-ride from who ever your hiring from. (I didn't even know about the FCC licence)

LB :ok:

[mattpilot]

the problem should occur when you get ramp checked. Meaning a dude walks up to you, waves a FAA/CAA flag and demands to see your licenses (i.e medical, pilots license, and possible FCC one).

Now i say 'should' occur because it probably is very unlikely that anyone will figure it out. Its just like driving a car in germany with a US drivers license. I got pulled over once, showed them my US license and they spent roughly 5-10 minutes talking to each other and on the radio figuring out what the hell that was what i gave them. Now i knew i didn't have an International driving permit, which was required by law, but they didn't know it. So after said period of time, the chief came over and gave me my license back and i drove off.

What i'm saying is, as long as your lucky and never get ramp checked (or if you get checked by people who are inexperienced), your not gonna have a problem. The question is, is it worth taking the risk over? especially if it only costs 50 USD?

[Lightning_Boy]

MattPilot, this is really good to know, not that I do much flying in the UK because its so expensive. So is it just a paper exersize and just a matter of sending the 50USD to the right people or is it a bit more involved than that. I'd rather know I was LEGAL on the odd occasion I do fly here in the UK, my toast normally falls buttered side down so the last thing I'd want is to get picked up on this. It would be interesting to know how many people who fly here in the UK on an FAA licence, actually have a FCC licence?

Thanks for the advise!

LB :ok:

[mattpilot]

Its just a paper exercise. Pick up form 605

http://www.fcc.gov/formpage.html#605

and this form to pay:

http://www.fcc.gov/Forms/Form159/159.pdf


What you can also do is file online, which is what i did. Very easy stuff and no paper work involved :)


To answer your question, i don't think many people do it legally. There are 2 types of Restricted Radiotelephone licenses. The normal one, and the limited one. The "limited" one is for people not authorized to work in the US - or in other words, its for foreigners like us. I have the limited one, and according to my license number, only 999 have been issued when i got my license (2003). I don't know how many foreigners have FAA licenses, but 1000 doesn't seem like alot. Assuming there are a lot more foreigners with FAA licenses, then most people never bothered to get a FCC license, or they lied on their application form and got the Regular license.

[chopperpilot47]

As I have said in an earlier posting I have e-mailed the FCC asking for clarification. To date they have not replied, when they do I will post what they say.

It seems to me that the FCC could require pilots to have a certificate if they fly aircraft FROM the USA to foreign parts. I really fail to see what jurisdiction the FCC has within a foreign country such as the UK. If flights do not begin or end in the USA I don't believe the FCC can require pilots to have an FCC licence. It's a question of jurisdiction. The situation could never arise that someone from the FCC could check you at Biggin Hill, for example, and prosecute you for not having an FCC licence. What offence could there be in the UK and what court could deal with it?

Regards,

Chopperpilot47

[Lightning_Boy]

Thanks for the links MattPilot, much appreciated. Does make you wonder why only about 1000 people have this licence when there must be 10's of thousands of FAA licences issued to people all over the world who fly in ICAO countries.
ChopperPilot has a point as well, what jurisdiction does the FAA have when your flying outside of the USA. Could this be a grey area that needs investigation? Is there any regulations inforced by the ICAO agreement? It will be interesting to hear Chopperpilots reply from his email.
Has anyone got any first hand experience of this situation or have been "Ramp Checked"

Once again, thanks for the links Mattpilot.

LB :ok:

[chopperpilot47]

Lightning Boy,

We are not talking about the FAA here, we are talking about the FCC. Out of interest there is nobody from the FAA or FCC in the UK authorised to do ramp checks.

Regards,

Chopperpilot47

[mattpilot]

The likelihood of this, well thats another matter entirely

not very high, me thinks :) - Although i must admit i've been checked 3 times sofar (in the US) within 2 years. Maybe thats why i'm so careful? :rolleyes: