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View Full Version : what do you want from economy plus?


answer=42
29th Apr 2004, 18:08
There have been a lot of threads recently about pax being generally disappointed with premium products. So, let's do our own market research and see what we really want. I'll start with the newest class, long-haul economy plus eg World Traveller Plus. This is what I want:

Seat width: same as economy
Seat pitch: good enough so I can use a laptop computer, even when seat in front is reclining. ie considerably better than most economy class.
Seat entertainment etc: entertainment same as economy. Socket for computer etc recharging. Internet would be nice.
Meal / drinks / goodies pak: same as economy
Lounge access: access to business lounge
Frequent Traveller points: same as economy
Price: Automatic entry when on full price economy class ticket. This might be considerably more than a reduced B-class ticket. Many clients specify econ class rather than give price ceiling.

atco-matic
29th Apr 2004, 19:05
I would like, in no particular order and considering that premium tickets often cost over 1000:

- to not have to stand the same queue as economy pax at check in (doesn't cost much to change the signs on a couple of desks)

- to be able to pay a bit extra at the airport to get in the airline lounge subject to space being available (thereby taking extra money from pax when lounge is underused)

- a free newspaper (cost 50p ish?)

- a drink before take off (even if it's only water or orange juice which costs a few pence) as it can be a long time between boarding and take off, especially at LHR

- better entertainment than economy class with seat back TV (already in place in WTP)

- wider seat than economy and more legroom (already in place in WTP)

- same meal service (already in place in WTP)

- to sit upstairs in the hump on 747-400s - surely this cabin is just the right size for world traveller plus and would it not make more sense to have all the club seats downstairs together?

- a curtain and PA's to discourage economy pax from wandering through the cabin willy nilly and using the toilet that SHOULD only be for us

- more frequent flier points to reflect the extra money spent

- NO FRUIT SALAD AND CAKES FOR BREAKFAST!!!!!! what's wrong with cereal?

I wander what the chances are of actually getting any of this though... :hmm:

Globaliser
29th Apr 2004, 21:11
You do get a free paper in WT+. Also, discount WT+ tix are often much cheaper than full fare economy.

Separate check-in would be a great bonus. In fact, if it's too expensive to have a dedicated WT+ check-in for the small number of WT+ pax (as W capacity is less than J capacity), J check-in privileges would add very little cost for huge "attraction" benefits.

mini
29th Apr 2004, 21:12
atco-matic,

Wher do you get off mate?

"not to have to to stand in the same que as economy pax at check in"

upgraded economy class is all about legroom and screwing you for "better service".

I'm sorry if my BO offends you as I line up for my economy class flight. How long do you wait at an airport that you feel a Lounge is neccessary?

Buy a newspaper, it won't break the bank.

- a curtain and PA's to discourage economy pax from wandering through the cabin willy nilly and using the toilet that SHOULD only be for us

What centuary do you belong to?

Heh Heh, this has to be a wind up - Right?

atco-matic
29th Apr 2004, 22:24
Oh dear, there's always one who takes exception to the fact that some people can afford to pay a bit more for their ticket than everybody else. I don't ''get off'' on anywhere, anything or anyone, but I do expect to receive a service comensurate with the price of ticket I have paid.

I don't care about your BO, ''mini'', but I hate standing in a queue for an hour with 300 other people. I don't really think it's unreasonable, if I'm paying 1200 to go to New York and you've only paid 189, to expect that I shouldn't have to wait so long for my boarding pass. After all, it's only the same thing that happens when you buy a club or first ticket, and I don't see you complaining about the attitude of those people.

The comment about the curtain was made because it irritates me, when I'm trying to sleep on a night flight, and some divot who shouldn't even be in the cabin is incapable of going through the gap in the curtain and insists on unfastening it and leaving it open so all the light floods in from the galley, then bumps into me or grabs the back of my seat as they stagger back to their own. After all, you aren't allowed in the club cabin if you haven't paid for it, so why should you be allowed in the premium economy cabin?

No lounge at any airport is necessary, but neither are back seat tv, extra legroom. hot food, alcoholic drinks, free newspapers, amenity kits, drinks before take off, hot towels...come to think of it neither is premium economy, business, or first!!!! They all, however, make the experience more enjoyable - especially if it means you can get away from people like 'mini' and his copy of The Sun... :D :D :D

By the way, to return to the topic (which was what we want in premium economy, not what other people think of what we want in premium economy) BA's world traveller plus seat is not very comfortable - did I mention that? And the last time I flew in World Traveller plus, we didn't get a free newspaper.

Tiger
30th Apr 2004, 06:08
Premium Economy is basically just more room, which you get. Wider seat, loads more leg space -I`m 6`2 and large build and find the seats comfortable: they remind me of the older style club seat. Start adding all these extras (OJ/Water etc.. and next we have a mini club service, which it isn`t nor was it planned to be. But its like everything; given a little then we want more.

bealine
30th Apr 2004, 08:54
Separate check-in would be a great bonus. In fact, if it's too expensive to have a dedicated WT+ check-in for the small number of WT+ pax (as W capacity is less than J capacity), J check-in privileges would add very little cost for huge "attraction" benefits.

In theory, Globaliser, what you say makes very good common-sense and would provide another plus point to the service.

The only trouble is, we've extended "F" Class check-in courtesies to Gold and One-World Emerald card-holders (which, looking at the current EC promotion, now includes Star Alliance equivalent card-holders!), and "J" class check-in for Silver and OW Sapphires. At certain times of day, the queues for "Premier" check-in are longer than for bog-standard Economy! This then means that when Lord Reginald Fortescue-Smythe III makes his entrance with his 5000 First Class ticket, he waits behind Mum Dad and Aunty Flo who are "friends" of a Gold card holder (not strictly above-board, but you wouldn't believe how many try to use this approach!!!)

However, to mark up a couple of desks as "World Traveller Plus" and put a small rope queue in front of them wouldn't break the bank and, when there are no WT+ customers waiting, the staff could supplement the main Economy desks. Why haven't BA's marketing boys thought of this one???

atco-matic - re Lounge Access - I'm sure it wouldn't be difficult to estimate the likely lounge throughput in advance so that check-in could advise WT+ whether or not it is available for a small charge. LHR is probably too busy (now that all the One World cardholders are added to the equation, but I'm sure something could be made to work at LGW. It's something Bluejay or myself could mention if we are ever able to get to a Forum with our management!

vast
30th Apr 2004, 09:17
atco-matic,

have you tried virgins premium product? You get a dedicated check in area, priority boarding, complimentary champ, oj, or b-fizz pre take off, wide selection of newspapers on board, upperdeck seating on our 747-400's, dedicated cabins curtained off, wider seats with more legroom .....

Just what you're looking for i believe..

Vast

Land After
30th Apr 2004, 12:15
For me, any premium fare is about space. For economy+, I'm looking for more leg and shoulder room (both BA and VS do this, BD does not, only standard seat width). A dedicated check-in is also good, but my FF status normally negates the need for this - the same for lounge access. However, I don't think lounge access should be provided for economy+: you can buy 3rd party lounges for around 15 if you really want it - the airline lounges are already full enough.

I'd like power at my seat. Upgraded food, drink and other entertainment are a plus, not a need. BA give you upgraded IFE, but it still does not beat the best VS system in regular economy.

For the UK carriers, I think VS have got it about right, BA could be there with the check-in and BD are lagging behind.

PeetD
30th Apr 2004, 12:19
more legroom and a bigger seat nothing else really matters.

lounge is nice but not essential.
i can buy a paper.
i don't fly for fine dining on board., so econofood is OK.

i'm 6'4" and i cannot do longhaul in 31". 34" is bearable. ( i like AA to the States and have used them 3 times in 12 months for leisure travel). 38" is good. i like WT+ and have paid for it down to SYD. BA have got to watch the price though on that route. MAS and Cathay both seem to have offers of around 2k LON-AUS in J when 2 travel together and i'm likely to use them rather than pay 1700 in WT+.

Boss Raptor
30th Apr 2004, 12:56
Slightly wider seat and seat pitch...dont need the full C Class though...

access to the C Class lounge, pre-take off drink...better presented meal...bar and IFE the same as Y

PAXboy
30th Apr 2004, 16:56
atco: vast has it about right, the VS Premium Economy has all of that. When I am in Y with VS, if the queue at PE is short or non-existant, I walk up and present my Flying Club card and state that I am in Y but may I possibly check in at PE? A smile is used and I make it a request not a demand. I have never been refused. For this, and other reasons (with which I have bored this forum in the past) VS is my first choice for long haul.

mini
30th Apr 2004, 23:08
Atco

Had a bad day, apologies mate. Way out of line. :(

BTW, don't read the Sun, fly j class & enjoy it...

paulo
1st May 2004, 13:13
AA is great for bargain legroom - 34 or 35" in basic economy.

jerrystinger
1st May 2004, 14:44
acto-matic......

I read with interest your post, but it is clear that you are a business class wannabe! Economy plus, World Traveller Plus or whatever it's called is still ECONOMY.

Those that can do, those that can't travel economy and moan.

TightSlot
1st May 2004, 20:18
jerrystinger This thread is an interesting one about what customers expect or wish for from an airline. It is not about scoring cheap points based on a perceived assessment of another person's experience.

Please play the ball not the player

bealine
2nd May 2004, 10:46
Seconded, Tight Slot!

Most of the suggestions aired so far have been fair and reasonable requests - not people wanting First class at bucket-shop fares at all!!!

I hope airline managers who happen to look in on this forum might get to see some of the suggestions as (a) they wouldn't cost much to implement and (b) would generate a bit of goodwill!

jerrystinger
2nd May 2004, 13:45
Can you define a 'reasonable' request? What you may want in Economy Plus isn't necessarily what Mr Bloggs over there wants and so where do you draw the line? If you start giving economy plus passengers everything, why travel Club? BA has seen a steady decrease in First passengers because its Club World product is enough to satisfy most top executives...the flat bed in essence!

I do sincerely believe that Economy Plus passengers like to think they are in Business class....I recently travelled WTP with BA to Tokyo and the guy sitting next to me wasn't content with the free newspaper offered and demanded a selection from the crew, who politely reminded the passenger what WTP were and were not entiltled to. He also whinged about not being able to have champagne on tap as in Club World and that he shouldn't have to eat at the crew's convenient times! It made for a long 12 hrs and it's not the first time I've experienced it. I think airlines that offer an economy 'plus' product should maybe produce a leaflet to remind the passengers that they have basically paid for a wider seat and extra leg room.....and that's it. You are not business or first class. Wannabes.

maxman
3rd May 2004, 18:34
Jerry.
I think you hit the nail on the head.
All I want from premium economy is more seat pitch, so I can stretch out a bit. I don't care about newspapers, better food, etc.

answer=42
6th May 2004, 15:53
Just to come back in again and say that I basically agree with maxman. What I want from Econ+ is to work or sleep. And that leaves me with three non-negotiable demands:
1. More legroom
2. Lounge access
3. Get into Econ+ with a full price Econ ticket.
The rest is nice but wont affect my purchase decision.

Must admit that I've never flown Econ+. Always either cattle or Business.