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Salvador
20th Aug 2001, 08:00
Now then, it is oft considered that exploring the flight envelope to the full is the territory of the nutter brigade. This may be correct. I am however very scared as a passenger when I know that in most cases that P1 up front has no idea of the exact capabilities of the machine, should he or she find him or herself at the raggedy edge. I saw famously recorded footage of an A340 landing at LHA with an undercarraige hang up. The Pilot cross controlled the machine to achieve minimum speed before the inevitable happened. It turned out that P1 knew a thing or two about aerobatics. P1 might have transgressed the rule book, but might also have have saved a few lives. I have much to learn, but I find it inexcuseable that flight training does not explore the envelope. I am Fair and I've said Enough.

Fairenough

compressor stall
20th Aug 2001, 09:27
You are not alone in that thought. Although aeros in a Decathlon or a Pitts are rather different to anything an A340 would normally do, initial symptoms may be recognised earlier.

BTW - Can you fly an airbus out of the envelope? :D

Tricky Woo
20th Aug 2001, 11:13
People are discussing aviation matters here in Jet Blast! What's the world coming to?

TW

Dave Incognito
20th Aug 2001, 11:45
Skills shmills.

Aerobatics = :D

chips_with_everything
20th Aug 2001, 12:07
Yes yes yes EVERYONE should explore aeros (FW) and advanced manoeuvres (RW)

Like teaching drivers to skid, steer with throttle, cadence brake, donut, double de-clutch, heel-and-toe, stall recover etc etc etc

Just HAS to be done.

It should be possible to tell the computers who is boss if you have to in an airbus too :D

Throtlemonkey
20th Aug 2001, 15:44
Aerobatics or at least spin recovery (from fully developed/auto-rotation not incipent spins) should be compulsary for all pilots at some stage in there training, its fun it improves flying skill, dexterity, confidence and it may save your life one day.

HugMonster
20th Aug 2001, 22:50
Salvador, you're referring to Tim Barnby. A very nice gentleman, a good pilot, and not at all a nutter, unlike one or two people I could mention here (even X's deleted here before someone sues me).

A Flight Ops Director of my acquaintance frequently cycles to work. In some people's books, that would make him a nutter. Another has difficulty remembering what EADI stands for (but he IS a nutter - allegedly :D).

Some people go skydiving. Others climb mountains. Yet others instruct PPL's (now that IS crazy - all my students seemed to want to kill me - come to think of it, not just the students...)

I have to confess a certain bias here. I'm a (reformed) ex-skydiver, I still go SCUBA diving when the opportunity presents itself, occasionally I wear (proudly) the team jacket of the mob with whom I flew team aerobatics in the States, and - craziest yet - I've been seen at quite a few PPRuNe bashes.

One man's nutter is another's genius... :)

Send Clowns
20th Aug 2001, 23:06
Yep, and as some have said, flying upside-down is fun. Even more novel in a chipmunk, 'cos the engine goes all quiet :eek: Always starts making noises when you put it right-side up again, though.

InFinRetirement
20th Aug 2001, 23:50
What Huggy says about Tim Barnby is absolutely spot on. A very nice guy indeed.

It might further interest you to know that as a Tiger Club check pilot I came across Tim in the middle 70's, and did a few rides with him to check his aeros. He was as you say an 'aerobatic nut' - we all were - but Tim showed a better than usual aptitude for it and certainly enjoyed them.

In Virgin I expect he will have already met one of his colleagues - another excellent aerobatic pilot - who is also a Captain on the B747. Oops! Tim is a Captain on the A340, but I expect they will have met.

Aviation is, as they say, a small world.

[ 21 August 2001: Message edited by: InFinRetirement ]