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boofhead
27th Mar 2002, 01:48
I read a book called 'The Hab Effect' or something like it many years ago and the premise was that with global warming the ice at the Poles grows due to warming of the polar atmosphere allowing greater snow fall and ice accretion. This causes the wobble of the Earth to increase to the point that the whole mess topples, like a gyroscope would, and take up a new orientation.. .As 'proof' there is fossil record and magnetic record in the rocks that show the Earth has had many different alignments of the magnetic lines of force, and there are signs that the present poles were at different times tropical. This toppling and re-alignment happens periodically and I was wondering if there is any real science out there on this subject.. .I was reminded of this theory when I read that a large part of the Antarctic ice shelf has broken away, because the sea temp is up 2 deg or more, and yet the ice in the interior is building up. At the same time the Arctic is losing ice, which must put a strain on the balance of the globe? Is life imitating fiction?. .Do I need to worry yet?

Slasher
27th Mar 2002, 02:49
Nah you NEVER need to worry. The polar ice caps have advanced and receeded countless times through history. The Earths magnetic alignment has even done 180s.. .. .The gyroscopic action of the Earth requires a bloodey humungus intervention of mass or energy for it to topple that far, like if the moon suddenley disappeared or the sun blew up. The mass of polar ice (even if it was 5 times its present size) isnt enough to do it. I think someones pulling your pud.. .. .And btw this "global warming" fad will probabley be revised back to "global cooling" again in a few years like it did in the early 80s when people got tired of it. The masses periodicaly need something to keep themselves occupyed.

pigboat
27th Mar 2002, 06:46
There's a local comedian that does a short bit that goes: . .I was eating supper the other evening when my doorbell rang. When I answered, the guy on the step says, "Do you know the Arctic ice cap is melting?". .I looked out the door, expecting to see an Eskimo in a kayak surfing down the street, so I asked him when this event was supposed to take place.. ."In about a thousand years," he says.. ."In that case, you don't mind if I finish me f****n' supper then, do ya?". .Sums it up pretty good, I thought.

henry crun
27th Mar 2002, 08:35
On the same subject, for all the fans of the theory that global warming is causing the worlds oceans to rise.. .. .The Flinders University of Australia has been investigating sea level changes around the Pacific.. .. .On two of the threatened islands, Tuvalu and Kiribati, over the last 7 years the sea level dropped by 8.69 and 11.74 cms respectively.

CoodaShooda
27th Mar 2002, 09:43
The oceans are falling, the oceans are falling...... .(Well someone's gotta say it.) <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="biggrin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="tongue.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="rolleyes.gif" />

Flip Flop Flyer
27th Mar 2002, 15:33
Well, personally I am in favour of Global Warming albeit on a regional scale. Would hate to see a large number of pictoresque tropical islands disappear beneath the waves, but on the other hand coming from a rather cold corner of the world if do have this longing for warmth and sun. So there, regional warming for me please. Not too regional though, would still insist on skiing the Alps in wintertime ... ahh, the splendid outdoors adourned by skibunnies and made perfect by Jaegertee and beer. Oh, and racing carvers of course <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="smile.gif" /> . .. .Few lessons for the red slopes: Fear Mode to &lt;Stand-by&gt; ... Style Mode to &lt;Full Auto&gt;. .Few lessons for the black slopes: Fear Mode to &lt;Full Auto&gt; .... Style Mode to &lt;Off&gt;. .. .WARNING: If Style Mode is in Full Auto, Fear Mode will not capture .... (As I found out whilst trying to expand the bank envelope of said racing carvers on a rather black piece of Tirolean mountain ..... damage to Pride only and a reminder to have Fear Mode running in the background at all times). .. .Any other passionate skiers / Jagertee drinkers out there ?

X-QUORK
27th Mar 2002, 16:24
Flip Flop Flyer,. .. .If I said Snow Queen, would you think I was :. .. .a) Being odd and a little camp.. .. .b) Mentioning something you might have been involved in in the past ?. .. .Answers on a post card.. .. .Your reference to Skibunnies makes me think I might know you....I wonder ! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />

X-QUORK
27th Mar 2002, 16:38
Oh Yeh, Global warming........not good.. .. .Have heard that here in the UK we might get colder as the rest of the world warms up. It seams the Gulf Stream in the Atlantic might be shifting which would mean our climate would become more like Canada's eastern coast.

Hugh_Jass
27th Mar 2002, 17:48
Load of Bo!!ocks if you ask me.. .. .The Earth's mean temperature has been rising and falling for 1000s of years. and our "high" temperatures (which must be coming from global warming, so get out of your cars and hug trees or else) is still 3 or 4 degrees short of the temperature in the 1300s, the so called "Medieval Warm Period". . .. .And before you go on about how there are "no records of temperature in 1300" etc, it was calculated from Tree Rings. . .. .HJ

Send Clowns
27th Mar 2002, 21:10
Boofhead. .. .Is the book pre-1960s? The theory is.. .. .Every science has gone through a revolution at some point, and for Geology it was plate techtonics. These theories first received broad acceptance in the 1960s, although they were first put forward as early as 1918. Since then vast areas of geology have been revised to take plate techtonics into account. The fact that the Earth's magnetic field was different at some stage in the development of Antarctica, for example, may be because that continental plate was over a different part of the Earth. This would tend to produce different fossils too.. .. .Of course more recently Antarctic was forested, but the forest was conifereous (ie cold-climate forest) and the Earth had no Southern ice cap, and a smaller northern ice cap if any. Remember we are living in an ice age (number 6 or 7 in the Earth's known history, if I remember third-year lectures correctly), even if we are lucky to be in an interglacial period. That does concern cimate change but as has already been mentioned the Earth's climate chages contiuously.. .. .The toppling suggeted by your book can probably be disproved by fairy simple physics. Any turning motion (such as a topple) involves angular momentum (the rotational equivalent of linear momentum). Like linear moentum, this must be conserved, so for the Earth to topple there must be some great input from somewhere, aother body to take the opposite angular momentum. Now unless someone flicks the moon off into space somehow, I can't see where.. . . . <small>[ 27 March 2002, 17:15: Message edited by: Send Clowns ]</small>

phantomwray
28th Mar 2002, 00:44
Boofhead,. .. .This "toppling" of the Earth that you talk about, you're kind of on the right track. The Earth doesn't just suddenly topple periodically because the poles get greater concentrations of snow and ice. It does however behave much like a spinning top. The Earth's axis of rotation precesses slowly (over about 23 000 years) in a circle. A top when spinning away on a table will be fairly stable but the direction that the vertical axis points to is constantly moving around in a circular-like motion. When the Earth is viewed in this manner, Polaris (the North star), will not always be our North star.. .. .Now, the different magnetic alignments that the Earth has had throughout its life is due to the flow patterns of the iron in the interior. This flow changes and even reverses over time, which is responsible for the altering of the magnetic field, and obviously the location of the magnetic poles.. . . . <small>[ 27 March 2002, 23:07: Message edited by: phantomwray ]</small>

tinyrice
28th Mar 2002, 01:08
There must be global warming, the temperature in Minneapolis this winter barely dropped below zero Fahrenheit for oh, two maybe three days max - 'onest! You could go outside with as little as 3 or 4 coats on.

Notso Fantastic
28th Mar 2002, 02:52
I read something about the Atlantic Conveyor (the Gulf Stream and the reverse flow deep down). The reverse flow current has decreased 20% over the last 30-40 years or so. It's possible that the Gulf Stream could weaken to a certain level and collapse completely. Whatever. What is guaranteed-it will get cooler in the UK and rain more (hang on.....this winter has been the mildest I've ever known- no snow at all down south). Perhaps we're warming up? Can't see the sea rising though- difficult to measure- damn thing keeps going up and down and in and out.......

Slasher
28th Mar 2002, 05:40
Why is it someone says something and someone else repeats it a few posts later?

Rollingthunder
28th Mar 2002, 05:58
You can't count on global warming.. .. .Cut Vancouver Island off at the sea floor and tow it to just off Oahu, outside US territorial waters.. .. .Sell lots. Build casinos and airports. Make billions.. .. .Now, there's a plan.

somewhatconcerned
28th Mar 2002, 06:39
Bring back the winters which made men of boys, the ones which meant playing a game of rugby involved loosing the layers of skin which held you elbows joints and knee caps in place which in turn became a warm up for the mid match fight.. .In the UK at least our winters have definately become warmer and wetter only ten years ago if you wanted to break the turf you needed a kango drill today you need diving gear. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="frown.gif" />

boofhead
28th Mar 2002, 13:56
OK, I will not bother to start worrying.. .. .On maybe the same subject, my 9 yr old daughter asked me why the equinox is not on the same day every year. Not knowing that was true, I waffled about the Earth's wobble and the eliptical orbit to explain it, but I know she is going to look it up and confront me. Can anyone give me the real reason?. .. .And on Global Warming, if it is true that we are having an impact, it may be that we are delaying the return of another ice age, and future generations will thank us.

tony draper
28th Mar 2002, 16:03
Water level is rising because the Earth is shrinking.. .Drillin holes at the pole whats done it, the earth stuff is leakin away. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />

Blacksheep
29th Mar 2002, 11:35
Global warming may or may not be real. The hole in the ozone layer may be growing and the polar ice caps may be melting. The point is, how do we know that this is the result of human activity or that changing our ways will reverse the trends? We appear to be in danger of conducting some very risky experiments on the basis of flimsy evidence and weak hypotheses.. .. .**********************************. .Through difficulties to the cinema

Slasher
29th Mar 2002, 14:27
There was a humungus hole in the ozone layer in 1956. No one realy got upset because the fad wasnt in back then. But if it was Id garantee the blame would fall on the Russians and their dumpin of toxic waste at Novoya Zemlya. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="rolleyes.gif" />. . . . <small>[ 29 March 2002, 10:31: Message edited by: Slasher ]</small>

Slasher
29th Mar 2002, 14:40
I reckon your theorys partialy right Drapes! Look at the number of the volcanos throwin the Earths guts inside-out since "global warmin" became a hit. All that lava stuff displaces the ocean water and causes it to rise! See? Its not GB at all. Its them bloodey volcs!. .. .Do your bit for the global community - BAN VOLCANOS from YOUR neighborhood! No volcs is good volcs!. . . . <small>[ 29 March 2002, 10:41: Message edited by: Slasher ]</small>

Send Clowns
29th Mar 2002, 14:41
Remember Boofhead that an equinox is effectively the Earth being at a given direction from the sun. With a stable orit, this translates to a given position on that orbit. Now this is always the same position, but the day is artificially superimposed on the year, and one year has 365.24 of them. The position of the Earth on given day shift slightly each year, until it is corrected back on a leap year. So conceivably the Equinox could change by a day, on a four-year cycle.. .. .Send Clowns. .. .Nav instructor for the newly-formed Bournemouth Commercial Flight Training Centre

tony draper
29th Mar 2002, 15:00
Its obvious that land is heavier than water, if sea level rises a lot of land will become sea, and the earth will get lighter, because its now lighter because theres less land, the earths orbital distance will increase moving us further out from the sun, thus making the earth cooler,so the water will freeze at the poles again.. .Don't know what every fecker is worried about.

Feeton Terrafirma
29th Mar 2002, 15:32
If the earth is gona get warmer I wish it would hurry up. It's bluddy cold here today, and if the sea rises by about 240 meters my wife would be happy. She always wanted to live by the sea.. .. .And why is it someone says something and someone else repeats it a few posts later?

phantomwray
29th Mar 2002, 23:43
I wish this discussion wasn't in Jet Blast because it's not always obvious when someone isn't treating it seriously. tony draper, I can't tell if you are joking or not because it is conceivable that some people (perhaps including yourself) may believe what you said. After all, there are some who still think the Earth is flat and who have no trust of science. I have a feeling you are kidding around, but only you really know <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="smile.gif" /> . .. .Anyways, the Earth will not become lighter as the land disappears into the sea. It is still there. In fact, if anything, the Earth is getting heavier. The meteors and meteorites that hit the Earth's atmosphere and the surface are slowly adding material to the planet. As far as I can remember, there's not really any way that matter is leaving the Earth. Space missions by humans not included. Even with our excursions into space, I'm sure that the matter coming in outweighs what we send out by a significant factor.. .. .On another note, my pet peeve about people's writing is the improper use of "its" & "it's".. .. .it's = it is. .its = possesive pronoun. .. .Of course, my writing is far from perfect, but that's just one thing that really bothers me.

Gash Handlin
30th Mar 2002, 00:03
Don't worry drapes, we can make the world heavier again just by makin all them plane things wot are in the air all the time stay on the ground, in fact if the earth does start to wobble off in one direction why dont we just make all the planes go to the other side . .. .or the other way to do it would be to make all those chinese jump up and down when china is on the opposite side of the earth to the sun, equal and opposite reaction and all that, bound to send us back in towards the sun. . . . <small>[ 29 March 2002, 20:04: Message edited by: Gash Handlin ]</small>

Foss
30th Mar 2002, 00:08
Flip Flop Flyer. .. .Personally for the red slopes I think it's.... .Drink mode &lt;Full Auto&gt;. .Fear Mode &lt;default OFF&gt;. .Gravity &lt;default ON&gt;

Flypuppy
30th Mar 2002, 00:10
Have you noticed how some people repeat the same things a few posts later?

tony draper
30th Mar 2002, 01:45
Well, twill be a cold day in hell when Drapes posts anything serious on JB.. .One wrote a long and clever solution to sea level rise here about a years ago.. .Can't remember it now, but I,m sure it would have worked. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="tongue.gif" />

GlueBall
6th Apr 2002, 03:42
To be sure, a nuclear winter will take care of global warning! :eek:

Mycroft
6th Apr 2002, 15:14
It does appear to be an attempt to explain continental drift without Plate Tectonics. The Earth's magnetic field is due to it having a liquid nickel-iron core which effectively becomes a dynamo. This means the field is unstable, not only with the Magnetic Pole not being geographically fixed, but also reversing frequently (in geographical timescales). This reversal is a proof for Plate Tectonics, as when rock is formed at the mid-oceanic ridges its magnetic characteristics are fixed as those extant when it was formed. This can be measured today (best done underwater as you can be certain that nobodies messed around with it) and shows regalar bands of N or S polarity, proving that the oceanic plates are growing.

Whirlybird
6th Apr 2002, 15:32
I just found this thread, and I love PPRuNe. I LOVE PPRUNE.I LOVE PPRUNE!!!!!!!!!!!!!! .

You see, I keep saying that I'm not sure that I believe all this global warming crap, but if it's true, gimme some of it cos it's bloody cold in North Wales. And people get all upset, and tell me it must be happening cos they read it in print and scientists say so, and it's awful and terrible.

And now I come on PPRuNe and find a million different opinions!!! You're all wonderful. I LOVE PPRUNE :) :) :)

Caslance
6th Apr 2002, 16:39
Ignore global warming (or pretend it doesn't exist) if you want but just you wait and see.....your great-grandchildren will be amphibians.

Or Penguins.

Or Welsh.

Now that's really scary!!!:D :D :D

Standard Noise
6th Apr 2002, 16:49
Whirlybird, you lucky, lucky, lucky, lucky [email protected] If only you knew how I dream to live in a warm southern climate such as yours! (Oh yeah, but over to the right a couple of miles)
You should see our heating bills up here in the Costa del Petrol bomb!!!!