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View Full Version : "Enjoy the war, the peace will be terrible."


Lima Tambo
24th Mar 2002, 22:30
I see that the Austrians have caught up with their housekeeping and are finally burying the victims of Nazi 'experiments'. Quite a few Germans have told me that the Austrians were the 'worst of the bunch'.

Velvet
24th Mar 2002, 23:57
Well, wasn't Hitler born in Austria.

Tartan Gannet
25th Mar 2002, 02:36
Yes, Velvet, he certainly was. He had to petition the King of Bavaria to be allowed to join a German regiment when WWI broke out. Now if Hitler for some reason handn't been allowed to enlist and had been a civvie in the First War would he have been the man to make the impact he did on post war Germany? Discuss.

bugg smasher
25th Mar 2002, 03:09
Interesting thought tg, I imagine that if it wasn’t the unwitting corporal, then someone else would have filled those shoes given the dire circumstances of the time. That some Germans (according to LT) try to lay blame on their little ‘brothers’ causes some suspicion in my mind.

Velvet
25th Mar 2002, 03:55
As Bugg Smasher says the time was right - what makes an evil monster, are they born or made. . .. .Hitler didn't do it alone, not only were there people who actively assisted his plans for genocide; millions turned a blind eye to what was happening across Europe. . .. .Similarly with Stalin, there were people willing to carry out the deeds, as well as those who let it happen. . .. .Nothing happens in isolation, and no one person is responsible for everything that happens in his or her name.

Ivchenko
25th Mar 2002, 06:17
Back to the Austrians - in November 1956 Austria cleared no less than 200,000 refugees from the Soviet invasion of Hungary and saw them safely through to the West.. .. .Every country (and that definitely includes the UK) has its skeletons...

Ivchenko
25th Mar 2002, 17:24
Flaps - top post.. .. .Stories like that certainly bring the history books to life. I'm glad your parents were among the lucky ones.. .. .All the best

Lima Tambo
25th Mar 2002, 23:13
A few years before the Austrian 'buses' might have had a different destination!. .. .The Dutch of course are decent people, none better.

flapsforty
26th Mar 2002, 01:38
LT I have no wish to see you abuse my posts to score cheap nasty points.. .Sorry for making your kind words into a non-sequitur Ivchenko; hope you understand.

Lima Tambo
26th Mar 2002, 02:08
nonetheless true though flaps

Moritz Suter
26th Mar 2002, 02:57
One hopes so, Mr. Gannet. One hopes so.

Ivchenko
26th Mar 2002, 03:12
No prob Flaps. .. . <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="frown.gif" /> Another interesting thread wrecked.

Catt
26th Mar 2002, 03:38
(attempts to redeem wrecked thread). .. .did you know that Hitler was rekoned to be the longest surviving 'runner' of WW1, a job that had a life expectancy of three days? He survived for months apparently. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="eek.gif" /> . .. .Wow! That I can remember that from GCSE history says a lot for the theory that you can learn in your sleep <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="smile.gif" />

Moritz Suter
26th Mar 2002, 03:46
(attempts to embellish unwrecked thread). .. .After less than two months of training, Hitler's regiment saw its first combat near Ypres, against the British and Belgians. Hitler narrowly escaped death in battle several times, and was eventually awarded two (count them...TWO) Iron Crosses for bravery. He rose to the rank of lance corporal but no further. In October 1916, he was wounded by an enemy shell and evacuated to a Berlin area hospital. After recovering, and serving a total of four years in the trenches, he was temporarily blinded by a mustard gas attack in Belgium in October 1918.. .. .Hardy the hallmark of a coward, Mr. Merlin.

Tartan Gannet
26th Mar 2002, 04:05
Indeed so, Moritz Suter. Often there are awkward facts in history which do not fit in with perceived wisdom or folklore. Hitler's war record and its effects on him which influenced his later life and that of millions of others cannot be ignored. Whatever else he may have been, and most assuredly do NOT admire the man, he was no coward in the bloodbath of trench warfare in WWI.

bugg smasher
26th Mar 2002, 05:35
Moritz, define coward.

Moritz Suter
26th Mar 2002, 05:40
An Englishman, Mr. Smasher.

HugMonster
26th Mar 2002, 05:45
So, in MS's eyes we cannot accuse Hitler of being an Englishman.. .. .Yes, I think I see the logic <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="rolleyes.gif" />

ImNot
26th Mar 2002, 05:46
In which case Mr Stutter, Hitler was certainly no coward. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />

ImNot
26th Mar 2002, 05:54
beat me by a nano second Huggy. Ggrrrr <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="biggrin.gif" />

Moritz Suter
26th Mar 2002, 06:01
Communist-inspired insurrections shook Germany while Hitler was recovering from his injuries. Some Jews were leaders of these abortive revolutions, and this inspired hatred of Jews as well as Communists. On November 9th, the Kaiser abdicated and the Socialists gained control of the government. Anarchy was more the rule in the cities.. .. .Add that to the stupidity of Versailles, and hey presto! Genius.

Eric
26th Mar 2002, 07:00
Biscuit Chucker . .. ."From what I've read, he didn't really make that much of an impact in WW1. If only he'd stayed the underachieving, bland person he was as a child.. .. .--------------------. .Never fly the 'A' model of anything.". .. .Your post and sig says it all!

maxalt
26th Mar 2002, 07:35
Did you know...Adolfs father was a customs officer?. .. .Not a lot of people know that.. .. .Explains everything though.

swashplate
26th Mar 2002, 07:44
Wasn't Hitler an anti-semite because he failed to get into the Viennese Academy of Art about 1907?. .. .Apparently a lot of the Prof's were Jews....?. .. .This condemned him to a life of poverty, where he mixed with a lot of Vienna's dispossesed, many of whom were anti-semetic..... .. .Also, despite his bravery in the trenches, his CO did not feel that he had sufficent 'leadership' to be promoted above Corporal. . .. .Later on, in WW2, many of his staff-officers would (doubtless quietly <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="biggrin.gif" /> ) refer to him as the 'Bohemian Corporal'....... . . . <small>[ 26 March 2002, 02:48: Message edited by: swashplate ]</small>

swashplate
26th Mar 2002, 07:55
Additional:. .. .Hitler shot himself in 1945, 57 years ago this May.. .. .Since then we've had the Cold war, Vietnam, Saddam Hussien, Sept 11th etc..etc.... .. .Endless so-called 'crises' <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="eek.gif" /> . .. .But we still endlessly discuss Herr A. Hitler's life & career.... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="confused.gif" /> . .. .Surely a candidate for 'Life of the Century'? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="frown.gif" /> . .. .But that was LAST century....

Tricky Woo
26th Mar 2002, 14:01
Back to the thread:. .. .I'm glad that Austria is finally clearing some of the WWII skeletons from underneath its metaphorical bed. A shame that some of the other Axis-aligned countries don't follow suit. Easy enough now to simply claim that they were occupied countries, and them nasty Nazi's did all the dirty stuff.. .. .Humph, we know who you are.... .. .However, there were also some Axis occupied countries, (clearly occupied), that in part behaved rather badly too.. .. .Again, we all know who you are.... .. .We also have some unoccupied, neutral countries that have plenty to be ashamed of. I'm sat in one now.. .. .Finally, let's be honest, WWII was a hell of an inhuman mess. The Allies are still reluctant to admit that (er, in hindsight) we might have ever so slightly, in some cases, have overstepped the (er) mark a wee bit with regards to human decency.. .. .TW

Lima Tambo
26th Mar 2002, 18:57
Is it true that Hugs shares 'one' of Adolf's physical characteristics? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="rolleyes.gif" />

Big Tudor
26th Mar 2002, 19:53
Nah, he shaved is dodgy tache off years ago !! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />

aidybennett
26th Mar 2002, 20:46
Did Hitler, and do any of the other dictators that crawl out of the woodwork when things start to go wrong to 'restore order' believe in the propogander they peddle, or is it just or do they sit in their bedrooms with dirty mags/ train stasticis/ aircraft registration books until the oportunity arises to be noticed?

HugMonster
26th Mar 2002, 21:57
Sorry, Big Tudor - LT is quite correct. The moustache came back late last year, but with a beard as well. Mind you, I persuade myself that I look rather more like George V than Hitler, although without the bags under the eyes (most of the time).

Celtic Emerald
27th Mar 2002, 00:45
In my time I've met a few people who fought in the war on both sides. The most interesting story was perhaps the German man I met who was drafted to the Russian front in Czecheslovakia when he was just 14 towards the end of the war when Hitler was running out of cannon fodder. He claimed his family were anti Nazi but he had no choice. I said "Oh you must have been terrified of the Russians" to which he replied. "No the Russians didn't bother him as much as the Czechs cause you knew where the enemy was but cause the Czechs were engaged in guerrrilla warfare you never knew when or where they were going to strike". Needless to say he never recovered, I found a few Germans who had fought in the war still shellshocked with odd behaviour.. .. .Another Scottish friend of mine who fought was present when one of the concentration camps was liberated never got over the shock of seeing what man's inhumanity to man can do & became a confirmed atheist. . .. .I see where there was a programme on Sigmund Freud the other day & governments decided to explore his theories as a way of manipulating the masses to inhibit their more basic instincts to prevent such evil & savagery happening again which they felt was probably laying dormant under the surface of all human beings ready to rear it's ugly head again. The US gov was one, maybe they decided on mass incarceration, maybe this is how the idea of mass brainwashing of religious & moral beliefs came about. Did anyone see the programme, I'd like to know the details & what methods governments used?. .. .As for Austria, I've visted the country a number of times, found the scenery & people lovely, how evil could have thrived under such beauty is beyond me. Reconciling the beauty of Berchtesgaden & the Eagles Nest with what went on there was difficult for me.. .. .Emerald. . . . <small>[ 26 March 2002, 19:47: Message edited by: Celtic Emerald ]</small>

Moritz Suter
27th Mar 2002, 02:24
Good one, LT. Rather suspect Hemorrhoid Huggy has none at all. The little Austrian genius at least had one; jolly big it was too, two Iron Crosses and all.

HugMonster
27th Mar 2002, 03:58
MS, unless I am to count you as a pain in the bum, I have no problem there, nor have I any complaints in any physical respects, having an above average number of legs, arms, kidneys, balls, fingers, toes and eyes.. .. .I am particularly saddened that you describe Adolf Hitler as a "genius".. .. .He was very far from being a genius. If you so admire him, you are sadly deficient yourself in the brains, morals, and wit stakes. But then, we all knew that.. .. .As many people here have already witnessed, the only area in which you are not deficient is in the bile duct.

Tartan Gannet
27th Mar 2002, 04:16
Huggy, the person borrowing the style "Moritz Suter" ( I understand that the REAL M.S. was CEO of Swissair),is not stupid. I can deduce that he/she/it has some knowledge of many matters, I was for example addressed in the latest post on one thread by a Masonic Rank from one of the Degrees to which I belong, so MS has read more than cheap slushy novels, etc.. .. .What I cannot understand is the sustained campaign of hate against yourself. Okey, we have had our differences on JB , but have reconciled our differences. Again why MS's fixation with your sexuality? Personally, I couldnt give a **** whether you are butch straight, femme straight, butch gay, femme gay, bisexual, assexual, transexual, transvestite, or any combination thereof. I judge you as a human being and on your deeds, not on what part of yourself you may or may not stick into whatever orifice of another consenting adult human or have stuck into yourself by same. That's YOUR business, I only wish MS would agree on that point.. .. .All the best,. .. .TG.

HugMonster
27th Mar 2002, 05:23
Not stupid, no, TG. But then, nor is a dog.. .. .MS is no more than a boil on the neck of PPRuNe. Unsightly, often rank-smelling, oozing pus, and in need of lancing.. .. .I cannot recall any post of MS's on any subject that advanced anyone's understanding, amused, intrigued, interested, or did anything for me other than deciding me more and more that this was not a real person, but one who has had any possible redeeming features of a human, humane, understanding, compassionate, loveable personality removed.. .. .MS posts nothing except to annoy, insult, irritate, disgust and destroy. MS has no urge other than to amuse MS, and persuade him/herself what a funny, imaginative, clever and witty person he/she is.. .. .Sad that he/she has, in the process convinced everyone else of the exact opposite, unless you count LT, who, as we all know, is MS him/herself.

Moritz Suter
27th Mar 2002, 05:27
Poor, sad, Huggy. You still don't don't get it, do you?

somewhatconcerned
27th Mar 2002, 05:32
TG (and Huggy). There is no campaign of hate, Huggy just falls for the bait. My bet is MS has absolutely no passion about what he speaks he merely seeks attention and by taking the bait MS believes that he is placed directly in the limelight. What ever turns you on I guess.

HugMonster
27th Mar 2002, 05:35
Not sad in the least, MS. In fact, rejoicing, since I shall ensure that you get the point. Just as soon as TG has named a time and a place.

Moritz Suter
27th Mar 2002, 05:44
Looking forward to it, Granny. But he's a hundred men that you are.. .. .MS.

Tricky Woo
27th Mar 2002, 14:21
Er, back to the thread?. .. .TW

Celtic Emerald
27th Mar 2002, 16:14
A funny story relating this topic, even in the worst subjects humour can be found.. .. .A very famous Irish comedian & pantomine queen called Maureen Potter, was introduced to Hitler surrounded by all his top brass thugs before the war.. .. .She greeted him in Gaelic with perhaps the most widely used insult in Ireland "Pog mo thóin" meaning 'Kiss my ass'. Smiling Hitler enquired what does it mean to which one of her embarrassed Irish entourage quickly pipped up with something like "How do you do" or some other pleasantry. I'd say she was one of the few people to insult that murderous gob***** & live to tell the tale. Only our Maureen would have had the nerve. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="eek.gif" /> . .. .Emerald. . . . <small>[ 27 March 2002, 18:07: Message edited by: Celtic Emerald ]</small>

Moritz Suter
27th Mar 2002, 21:59
It intrigues me that, given how close Admiral Karl Döniz came to strangling Britain in 1941, the Brits are, once again, dismantling their Royal Navy, piece by piece. Do they think that with the Chanel Tunnel, they are no longer an island?. .. .War is littered with loss, and as an interesting aside, Admiral Karl Dönitz lost both his sons to enemy action during the war. The younger, Peter Dönitz, was killed while serving as watch officer on the U-954 when the boat was sunk with all hands in the North Atlantic on 19 May, 1943. . .. .After that loss the older brother, Klaus, was permitted to withdraw from combat duties and started his education as a naval doctor. Klaus however kept in touch with his former comrades and on his 24th birthday on 13 May, 1944 he convinced his friends to take him along on the fast boat S-141 for an attack on the Selsey on the English coast. The S-141 was destroyed and although 6 of its crew were rescued Klaus Dönitz was not among them.

Lima Tambo
28th Mar 2002, 02:22
Celtic, . .Did not 'your' Roger Casement have a similar bent?

Paterbrat
28th Mar 2002, 04:09
Hmm... wonder if MS isn't a closet jackboot wearer, admiration for the little monorchid bordering on the sycophantic is a touch worrying MS. Musn't let too much slip out, we already have the homophobia and dislike of British institutions and military on display. Doesn't like Beleraphons best either. Tut Tut, whatever will slither out next?. .LT, you shadow far too closely, you'll intertwine if your not careful.. . . . <small>[ 27 March 2002, 23:11: Message edited by: Paterbrat ]</small>

Moritz Suter
28th Mar 2002, 05:11
Mr Peterbrat,. .. .The hero Belleraphon had been given the task of killing the evil Chimera and needed the help of Pegasus. He caught the magical horse by throwing the golden bridle, a present from the goddess Athene, over Pegasus' head while the stallion was drinking at Peirene, another of his wells. This caused the wild horse to become tame and obedient, and he willingly flew his master to the lair of the Chimera. The lithe stallion was much more agile than the ungainly monster and enabled Belleraphon to kill the beast by evading it's blast of flame.. .. .Lets see now, that would make me Belleraphon, you Pegasus, and that malignant old cur Hemorrhoid Huggy the beast Chimera. I realise how you must long to have me astride your back, Mr. Paterbrat, but there's no need to delve into the ancients to hide your affection for me. Just ask me out....don't be shy. You know you'll ultimately be as charmed as Pegasus just as soon as I throw my rope around your neck!. .. .MS.

Lima Tambo
28th Mar 2002, 15:10
I sense Paterbrat 'bridling' already. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="biggrin.gif" />

Evo7
28th Mar 2002, 15:56
Tell the whole story, MS.. .. .In the end, Bellerophon decided that he could ride Pegasus to Mount Olympus and visit the gods. Zeus quickly put an end to his trip by sending the gadfly to sting Pegasus and throw Bellerophon. He survived his fall but, was crippled. He spent the rest of his life wandering the earth. No man would help him because of his offense to the gods. He died alone with no one to record his fate.. . . . <small>[ 28 March 2002, 10:57: Message edited by: Evo7 ]</small>

Lima Tambo
28th Mar 2002, 19:52
Oh my goodness. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Embarrassed]" src="redface.gif" /> Almost as bad as being banished by El Presidente. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />

Moritz Suter
28th Mar 2002, 21:03
Quite so, Mr. 7,. .. .But unlike Belleraphon, I intend to retire my nag to the glue yards BEFORE he carries either one of us anywhere near apotheosis. Zeus Fyne will approve, I'm sure.

Evo7
28th Mar 2002, 21:09
Dr. 7, old chap. If you feel the need to use a title, use the right one <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="smile.gif" />