SAX cadets

[406pilot]

hi guys,
i just came back frm south africa and there was a lot of critisism over the competency of the cadets and their attitudes toward Flying in general...i also had the oppotunity to jumpseat on one of the dash8 with a cadet on the right seat and quite frankly he was very competent and friendly,so i really dont know wheather these rumours are true..or just envy
quite frankly i would have given anything to be a cadet at the start of my career.

406pilot

[George Tower]

Some guys get where they are because of the colour of their skin, some because of the colour of their money and others because of the colour of their noses.......brown in such cases.

Whether your ex-military, self improver, or a sponsored cadet if your friendly and competant I think everything else is irrelevant. Having a whitnessed a bit of a Pprune spat today best we lay of the old AA chestnut for a while me thinks:p

[skyvan]

I have flown with a number of the ex-cadets recently, and I know a few of the most recent SAA ex-cadet intake. As much as I hate to disagree with some of the more senior folks on Pprune, there is nothing wrong with them.

The operation with an ex-cadet or a self achiever is very much the same. Some of the self (or Daddy) sponsored pilots have attitudes, as do a few of the ex-cadets, as do a few ex-SAAF types.

So what? We are all human, and we all have attitudes, of some kind or other. That is why we do CRM courses.

As GT says, so long as someone is competent and friendly, they will get on. Those who have bad attitudes eventually end up like a self-fulfilling prophesy, and move (or get moved) on.

[Check Revs]

It is with interst that I read all the comments re the SAA cadets.

I am personally involved with the training of the SAA cadets at one of the flying schools (not 43 Air School) As for the standards - no student will qualify here if they don't meet the required standard. We do not qualify all the students that get here. If they can't cut it they do get suspended.

The students mix here with cadets from all over the world (Cathay, China Airlines etc.etc.etc) and what may come as a surprise to a few Pruners is that they can hold their own. They compare extremely favourable to the cadets of the other airlines.

Having spent 20 odd years in the SAAF (Helo's and Inst) I believe I know where I am coming from. All of the present students here at the moment will, at any time, pass the SAAF Pilots course. And that would be without any political pressure.

Just a couple of thoughts - use it don't use it
(Must say I haven't heard that one for a while - for obvious reasons)

Check Revs
:ok: :ok: :ok:

[406pilot]

hi guys,as regard to "attitude"
i meant a f/o actually walked into a cockpit wearing a red FERRARI hat,lowered the seat all the way put on the darkest pair of sunglasses he could find,strapped himself in and put on a pair of gloves.
no offense to ferrari but is this the kind of attitude to expect frm a cadet? in the good old days the pilot used to be the image of the company,but i guess it was a lot hotter cause there was no a/c in the good old days:}
The above mentioned criterea was narrated to me by the PIC.

no more 406pilot

[skyvan]

I'd be interested to hear the PIC's response.

The Captain sets the tone for the flight, and is responsible to maintain it. If the F/O did that, he deserves a "Little Chat". But the PIC must deal with it at the time, whether the F/O is ex-cadet or whatever.

I must admit that this example is the first that I have heard of in such a vein. There are plenty of stories about F/Os pushing the limits, some even about guys who are now senior captains.

Very often all that is needed is a small "re-orientation" to address the errant behaviour, and it doesn't happen again. The occasional lapse in decorum should not brand a pilot as a "maverick" forever.

[406pilot]

hi skyvan,
well the captain(training capt) did eventually manage to bring this particular f/o's atttitude to the ground,how he did it is,is another story all toghether,but we must constantly be reminded of the mistakes that we keep making over and over again.
maybe its the youth or the "topgun"attitude

no more 406pilot

[Deanw]

Hey 406 pilot

Don't keep us in suspenders, tell us the story :)

Yours in antic-i-pation :ok:

[406pilot]

hi deanw,
well i suppose i would have hit him on the head with the hyraulic hand pump lever located behind his seat but NO,this capt,was much more civilised thn myself so he had a loooooooong talk and knocked sence into him,i guess CRM does come in handy at times...

no more 406pilot

[contraxdog]

I dont think the isue is really weather or not they are competent or not, but maybe why the industry should be saddeled with SAA's training responsibilities. If they want them and they want to train them, why dont THEY use them? Why does SAX and Airlink have to experience, them for SAA? Oh yes I forget Rossair and lately NAC.

[406pilot]

nicely said contraxdog,
u seem to know the burdens to carry sax cadets, could u share ur experiences with the rest of us..it would also be interesting to know if you urself were ever a cadet or did it the hard way like myself

no more 406pilot

[Deanw]

Thanks (no more) 406pilot :cool:

[GUSTO]

Hey 406 pilot ,

Are you a cabin crew now ? for me it will be a brandy and coke with peanuts ...

When are you putting your two hands on the big baby ? What happen to your job ? Who is flying the 406 now ?

Cheers and good luck .

Gusto

[406pilot]

jambo uncle oli,,
well i dont know when these suckers are gonna let me loose on the big baby, how about urself bro??
till thn i remain to be "no more 406pilot"

ps:my old job is still there like u know its hard to replace me..

no more 406pilot

[contraxdog]

406,
Sorry I took so long to replie.

When I wrote the previous contribution, I promised myself not to get emotional about it. It is one of my pet hates.

No boet, I waited long, paid for my self, struggled, begged, and still am, scratching for a living.
Take a hypothetical situation where I decide to fill all my RHseats with someone's Simbionic Air Lines Cadets. Wonderful! Saves me to advertise for crew, train them and evaluate them. My L/H seaters babysit them for a year or two, until Simbionic Airlines invite them back. Suddenly some of my L/H seaters get jobs with Simbionic Other Air Lines or try to. Now suddenly I will be frantically looking for new L/H seaters because I have not been making L/H seaters, because I was busy "experiencing" Simbionic Air Lines's Cadets. I cannot use some of my R/H drivers because none of them have the License it reqires to fly my equipment, because they are career L/H seaters.
The only thing I can do is to start poaching. I will normally start poaching down the pecking order or side ways.The part of the industry that cannot afford to do the trainig of new drivers sits with the bill and the responsibility. Because they cannot afford it they go bust, or start skimping on the training. But that doesnt bother the bigger Simbionic Air Lines because they need more seats filled not to make another record loss wich must be carried by taxpayers, which was partly caused by their social conciousness to train cadets. So the Other Small Airlines get less and less. And so the vicious circle continues.

And here I stop now. No more ranting. But again I say, the issue is not the Cadets its to Cadet or not.
If they want them, let them train them to the point where they can use them!




...the tme has come the walrus said to speak of many things, of pirate ships and sealing wax, and cabbages and kings...