View Full Version : Air Atlanta/Excel difficulties at the weekend

surely not
19th Apr 2004, 17:21
I believe it was a rough weekend for Air Atlanta.

A crew who had been 3 days in Lourdes were late to the airport for their return flight!!

Then they had problems starting one of the engines causing a significant delay.

On arrival back in UK the A/c was used to cover for Air Excel tech probs on Spanish holiday destinations.

A/c arrived back at LGW and they didn't have a crew to operate down to LDE to collect the disabled and fly them back to Prestwick. I believe it was a 15hrs delay?

When the aircraft was sent down to LDE it didn't have any catering on board plus it didn't have any tins for the bags!!! Ooooppps

So to mop up the bags that couldn't be carried by a German carrier ex LDE, Air Atlanta diverted a 747-300 ex ALC into LDE to collect the 200 odd remaining bags and took them to MAN. Then by road to Prestwick.

Not a good weekend then folks?

19th Apr 2004, 18:04
What a sad life some people lead...............

19th Apr 2004, 18:07
it was a cracking weekend i thought
a big congrats to everyone in ops and crewing who achieved miracles this weekend, and all the helpful crew who allowed us to cover everything legally, even if you dont recognise any of the dramas described above as being the one you worked through.
wish we had enough crew to leave some in LDE for 3 days!
Surely not - Air Excel - do u mean KLM Exel? Or excelairways? If you got the name right it would give the rest of the post more authority. Thanks for looking in though


19th Apr 2004, 18:13
Crundale check yer pm

surely not
19th Apr 2004, 19:20
It wasn't meant as nastily as it reads.

Well done to those who had to cope with the situations. It happens to most airlines at some time.

Oshkosh George
19th Apr 2004, 21:16
And there was me thinking a bag could not be carried without a passenger!:confused:

20th Apr 2004, 07:11
Oshkosh George, yes they can!. So called RUSH-BAGS.
When the pax traveled and the bags was left behind due
to operational reasons then the pax and the bag travel
diffrent. If the pax is a NO-SHOW then you better off load
the baggage for obious reasons.


20th Apr 2004, 08:24
Imagine your bag misses connection in LHR (happens all the time btw) during your transit stop there enroute to, say, LAX. When they do find your bag, you wouldn't expect them to sail it over the pond would you?

There are procedures in place to make sure that left-behind bags does not pose a threat, after which they are duly loaded and sent in the general direction of whereever you may be.

Airlines have entire departments doing nothing but tracing and sending left-behind luggage.

21st Apr 2004, 16:44
I do not know what the Air Atlanta does.

Their on time performance was 65% during Hajj Season, when they were flying for Saudia Airlines (wet lease).

I heard that they rostered crews to lay over at without send return back crew before the flight. Mis management, as I see. I think, they need a strong OCC.

21st Apr 2004, 17:45
1)aog 75/76 Friday Night - bad start to weekend

2) Crew had NOT been 3 days in LDES - they had arrived the night before -at 1800 - they were late to a-c due to having to return to hotel to check-out as they were then asked to the extra sectors and would not get back to LDE that night

3)Ops decided to run with delay to LDE next day...due abysmal handling in MAN, crew did not arrive in LGW until 2359z; needing 18 hours rest

4) Next day, crew could not do LDE/PIK and DUB/IBZ, a-c brought ex BZZ but RAF would not lend pallets - catering was loaded in LDE - that was always planned

5) a-c next day dropped into LDE to get bags - it was a ferry flight IBZ/MAN

21st Apr 2004, 18:58
Think AAI better operate under jar regulations.
Some ex AAI have moved on to high positions other airlines.
No lie anymore.
Truth is being told.

21st Apr 2004, 19:27
Just Like to know, if air atlanta icelandic/ iceland itself is now a full JAA member. And if so are AAI operating undewr these rules.

Phil Squares
22nd Apr 2004, 04:39
AAI is under JAR, however, they only adhere to it when it is convienent for them.

I can't wait till they get the -400. AAI is in for a big surprise when they start with that aircraft. I wonder how long it will be until AAI tightens their belt further!!!!

Believe me boys the grass is really greener elsewhere!!!

Say Mach Number
22nd Apr 2004, 05:16
'Crew needed 18 hours rest'

I take it I am right in thinking they must have had an 18 hour day to require 18 hours rest. In my time flying short haul dont think I have ever needed 18 hours rest after a duty.

Maybe just been lucky but that seems horrendous.

Staying put dont like the sound of that.

22nd Apr 2004, 11:01
No problems here in KUL. ;)

22nd Apr 2004, 22:53
Don';t know what happened this week end ( I managed to get home for 4 days, Thanks crewing), But over the past 3 years Atlanta / Excel has had a good on time performance.

The JAA / AAI FTL questions that come up often here, Well I would rather operate under the AAI scheme any day ( AAI Scheme does not allow doggy special schemes like the CAA which allow LGW BJL LGW day return with 2 pilots, AAI rules also give Augmented crew proper in flight rest too and when Augmented crews are used an extra 6 hours on top of the previous duty before we can go near the a/c ).

But I heard they are short of JAA crews this year and maybe that is causing some problems. Guess the CAA will have to give some validations out, That will solve any possible problems.

25th Apr 2004, 11:06
On time performance during the Hadj, Your having a laugh!
When they have mustered 465 bodies you go! simple as that.
The roster generally involves the probability of a flight in a 2 to 10 hour slot more like.
In all the years I have never seen anything like a schedule that the hadj authorities will have any chance of meeting let alone the Airlines flying it, and this is based on simple logistics.
The most organised hadj is that of the Indonesians as they are all on package tour type deals where they by and large remain together, however the Saudi Hadj is a different kettle of fish! Flights from Pakistan, Dakka, Egypt, France, Germany, Algeria, Morocco, Iran etc. Generally everyman for himself and many have no intention of returning home!
65 percent sounds amazingly good, I would like to know where this particular statistic came from.
Not Saudi thats for sure, more likely a figment of someones imagination.

26th Apr 2004, 20:15
Do I detect a certain amount of animosity towards Air Atlanta?

I bet most of you have a CV in with them anyway...;)

27th Apr 2004, 10:58
We work for these flaming idiots.
CV's are in with all the others., but with this airline's bad reputation and the slow market we are stuck for the time being.

27th Apr 2004, 16:45

Funny you should say that... so do I !!!!

27th Apr 2004, 18:44
The element of air atlanta influenced by the excel agreement is a better operation than the rest. it would be nice if the whingin scruffy element of air atlanta ******red off and let the excel crew do the work, job done. rome wasnt built in a day but i wasnt on that job.

28th Apr 2004, 06:19
Should you enjoy flying broken airplanes,exceeding duty periods
Hiding engineering problems then you surely need to get another proffesion.
Should Atlanta remedy these situations this would be a great company.
This is how they stay in the game when others declare bankruptcy an close shop.

29th Apr 2004, 17:17
The Excel operation is a small part of AAI and brings in an equally small percentage of the summer revenue. The rest of the operation, primarily the cargo ops is the year round money earner.
However by far the majority of the whinging and moaning comes from the Excel core. Why is that?
If you aint happy, b***er off! And let the rest of us get on with it.
Have a nice one.

29th Apr 2004, 21:11
Flybob, the problematical part of that equation is that you (Air Atlanta) have just bought a 40% stake in the "whingeing core", which does make it rather more difficult for you to tell them to b***r off or vice versa.

Then again, if you upped the stake to nearer 75%, you could probably just tell them what to do and they would have to get on with it, wouldn't they.

Now there's an idea. :ooh: :)

29th Apr 2004, 22:11
Now are we talking about the whinging core of air atlanta pilots (not all) that are flying the excel contract or are we talking about the whinging core of excel pilots whinging about the whinging core of air atlanta pilots whinging about air air atlanta , excel et al, who seem to think turning up for work in an array of costumes that would put panto to shame is acceptable in the uk market.( not to mention the array of validated cornflake packet licences) Come on guys you're on a pedestal in this market, let's at least look as smarmy, i mean professional, as we are percieved to be ,or actually are.( i hope)
Jacket pants , back pack and baseball cap,scruffier than a west country gypsy, all you need is a scrawny alsation and a pack of big issues. Come on, i used to fly in flip flops and shorts in the heat but there is a time and a place.
Dont be late cos you'll F@@K up the brand that gives you credibility here, and you own 40% of it now.:D :p :ok:

1st May 2004, 05:24
Flight rider.
Me ol mucker, my post was but a re-buttal to previous. Please read total.
Dicks, ....well said.
As far as I am concerned we all work for same outfit, AAI crewed and organised by excel, by AAI pilots, working airbourne contract. You work it out.
The crap is where someone says non UK crews flying to different law or rules, get a grip!
All either JAR licence holders or validated! End of story, by far the most UK based and that will continue to be the case.
Pay below standard as is terms and conditions, however the times are changing. Either live with it and negotiate or leave!
Your choice!
Every one is on their own deal, make your own!

1st May 2004, 20:15
Thought Air Atlanta Europe are set to crew most Excel flights when summer sched kicks in. Full time crews, UK AOC, G Reg aircraft,same rules, surely tidier for all once it happens.