Type Ratings outside of FSI/Simuflite

[trags]

Hi guys and gals
Just wondering who out there has experienced obtaining biz jet Type Ratings out side of the traditional (and somewhat expensive) realm of Flight Safety and Simuflite?
There are other options as I'm sure we all know such as utilising a private Company with FAA approval and conducting an in house ground school then utilising ones own a/c to conduct the Flight training. obviously this limits the type of in flight activities one can take part in and also the length of training as opposed to a simulator.
Is however, FSI a little overrated when comparing the extreme costs of training there and the style of their long, drawn out courses that do seem to drag on for days and days and d...., when in reality; is it possible to do a TR JUST AS SAFELY, in a smaller period of time and cost far less money, considering of course the background and relevant experience of the pilots undergoing the training.

My experience thus far has been always using the traditional organisations mentined above.
If anyone has any inputs based on their own personal experience with using an 'inhouse' type of training I'd love to hear your comments!
Cheers:E

[johnnypick]

Try flightcrewsystems.com they're based at Palomar airport Carlsbad California. The guy you need to get in touch with is Stuart Illian.

[trags]

Thanks for the directions to a school....
Not exactly what I was asking.
To repeat; I was wondering if anyone would be able to share any personal experiences they may have regarding the obtaining of TR's outside of the FSI realms??
I know there are plenty of schools out there willing to take a bite but I'm interested in peoples opinions as to how their experiences were with regard to Training quality....

Take it away!!!

Cheers again!:8

[bluesafrica]

Only on heavier types. Training was still pretty close to FSI syllabys as systems are systems and simulator training is simulator training geared to pass a set FAA / JAA type ride.
I personally feel that out of FSI course price a large portion may go to insurance companies ( product liability ).
Simuflite and Flight Safety are both offering the product that has been refined many years to suit typical bizjet operator. I wouldn't hold training center responsible of something that has been produced to satisfy worldwide aviation authorities. And as we all know, FAA, JAA or local PCA's don't care if it is expensive and time consuming....
Blues

[trags]

Bluesafrica
thanks for the response.
Chatting to a few people at my end there seems to be a feeling that WRT biz jets - types like the CL604 or the Falcon 2000 do require the in depth and lengthy sim sessions to adequately become familiar with the a/c.
There are Training organisations that utilise the operators a/c and conduct several hours only of flight training after 6-7 days of a groundschool of sorts. Whilst this meets the required legalities for the issue of an unrestricted TR I wonder if it is a truely adequate system of learning that equips the newly TR'd pilot to take a safe Command of the a/c.
This is an attractive option for people working on a very tight budget and timeline...
Maybe FSI and Simuflite are a little overrated due to the excellent marketing and advertising they project to the pilot??
I remain very open to more input regarding this from anyone with a thought or two!

:E

[BizJetJock]

I have had one experience of a type rating with other than FSI/Simuflite, and two recurrent check rides in the aeroplane rather than the sim. These convinced me that the money spent at FSI/SF was well spent!!!:ok:

[trags]

BizJetJock
Thanks. Would you mind expanding a little on your experiences? what was it that convinced you that FSI/SF was $$ well spent?
Cheers in advance! :E

[bluesafrica]

Just doing a course with Bombardier Training Center. This is like FSI some 20 years ago...
Very "stiff" to tell the least. Different exams needed for FAA and JAA, different checkrides for FAA and JAA. Even different copilot needed for FAA and JAA checkrides!
Questions are similar like in "Who Like be a Millionair" show.

Have Fun,
Blues

[BizJetJock]

Basically, training and testing on the aeroplane was the bare minimum to "tick the boxes", both from the point of view of cost (and available aircraft time),and because there are lots of items which you just can't do on the aeroplane. Genuine V1 cuts and many of the system failures are just not possible without a sim.
To be fair, both of the recurrent tests I have done the examiner was trying to do it properly - one was an FAA staff examiner, not delegated. The type rating course, however, was a joke. I gather that the proprietor of the "school" has since gone to jail!!!
I should qualify my comments by saying that I am talking about not using a sim, rather than specifically non FlightSafety or Simuflite. I see that Bombardier has been mentioned, but I have no experienceof them.

Have fun whatever you do!:D

[trags]

I appreciate responses
Would any of you say that after your TR conducted at "home" you were then dispatched to operate the a/c feeling less than qualified to competently do the job?

I understand the greater learning envelope the sim can give us WRT certain phases of flight but then at the end of the day if it is FAA approved - it is considered to be sufficient.
I wonder, is it really sufficient or is it more what we have come to expect far more from our training via the sim organisations, and what once was considered a luxury as far as training goes is now considered to be the norm and anything less is insufficient?

I don't mean to be thrashing the point here but am interested in anyones comments and am also trying to keep the thread (as boring as it may be!) alive!
Cheers!

:E

[trags]

All quiet out there??
I thought there would have been quite a few people who may have opinions or first hand experience of this situation...?
:E

[con-pilot]

Trags, the biggest problem using someone other than FSI or Simuflite is not the FAA or JAA. It is the Aviation Insurance Underwriter Companies.

Nearly all aircraft insurance policies state in the pilot endorsement “Pilot must have successfully completed appropriate training by Flight Safety International for XXX type aircraft.” All the insurance companies will accept Simuflite in lieu of FSI, however any body else will be a bit of a problem.

Good Luck!

[rotorrisk]

As Aviation Insurance Broker, I will agree the recognized type ratings will be with either FS or SF. These are the "approved" initial and recurrent training centers recognized by the dominant carriers.