How would you do it if you were in my shoes?

[buster172]

Dear Ppruner’s,

I would like to ask you for your opinions on the two options I have regarding the route to an ATPL(F) I'm just a little stuck and wondered if I could have some help.

I have a JAA PPL + Night rating, I am a CGI for a Volunteer Gliding School and have a valid class 1 medical.

This is where I am at the moment with regard to my experience. At present I have arranged finance through HSBC for a modular route of training. I am planning to do the 14 ATPL's through Bristol ground school and then, well, here's my dilemma.

Part of me is leaning toward doing the ATPL grounds, then the CPL and FI rating. I would ideally work at a flying club or school for a year or so and building around 500-1000hours before doing my ME/IR and MCC. I think this route would allow me to spread the cost a little better recouping perhaps a small fraction of the initial outlay and hopefully developing my skills as an instructor. I was hoping that with my added experience the ME/IR may be a little easier and the extra hours perhaps more attractive to a potential employer?

I really enjoy the instruction I do with the VGS and while I do want to fly turboprops in a few years I don’t see my self as purely hour building. I hope to continue instructing throughout my career.

The other route is to just bite the bullet and head off to Jerez in Spain after my ground school and complete my CPL/ME/IR. To hope for a job and a means of paying off the huge loan repayments that would entail on my return. I would also do my FI rating at this point and hope to work as an instructor.

As you know its a huge decision both in time and money. I am becoming increasingly frustrated at work and would like to get my plan together ASAP so I can arrange the money and begin the distance learning.

Would it be possible for you to give me your opinions on what may be the best route? What would you do in my shoes? I have researched Pprune and attended flight training fairs at Heathrow, spoken to a range of pilots but seem to have stalled at this point.

I guess only I can make this decision but hearing the voice of my fellow wannabe’s will at least give me some food for thought and hopefully some encouragement for the long road ahead!

All help, suggestions, opinions very greatly received.

On a slightly different note. I posted a few months ago about my experiences raising the finance through HSBC. I hope to have my plan finalized in the next few weeks to show the bank. I will of course let you know how I get on and if successful what I did.

Thanks again for your time and I look forward to your replies.

Kind regards,

Buster172






:ok:

[FlyingForFun]

I found myself in a very similar situation. Finished the exams, had a CPL, wondering whether to do ME/IR or FI next. I also like the idea of instructing (but no experience of gliding like you). Here was my reasoning:

First option: FI asap, and ME/IR/MCC later:

- Less money to spend now
- Gets you out of the office and into aviation quicker
- There seem to be quite a few FI jobs going at the moment
- Very poor pay as an FI

Second option: ME/IR/MCC (and maybe FI) asap:

- Need to find more money right now
- Longer time before you're ready to look for work
- Very few jobs going
- But if you can find a job, it'll probably pay better than the FI job

For me, it was a no-brainer - the first option wins. Especially since instructing appeals to me a lot more than watching an auto-pilot all day (or all night). The second option only has one benefit, and that's a salary that you can reasonably live on.... but the benefits of having a better salary are pretty meaningless if you can't find a job!

Hope that's given you something to think about.

FFF
---------------

[mad_jock]

Its a doubled edged sword.

If you have the full set you are ready for any job that comes along while you instruct.

If you don't oppertunitys may arise which you can't take due to havinga 3 month lead time to get the rest of your ratings. But you will find the IR a bit easier with instructing hours under your belt.

I personally would go for the get all the ratings. Things change very fast and if there is a employment rush the schools will fill up very quickly. Getting FI hours under your belt is pretty good idea if you are wanting a TP job. I havn't heard of a TP operator yet who prefers 220hrs wannabies.

MJ

[GusHoneybun]

I personally followed the CPL/FI route, build some hours and then planned to get the ME/IR. All went to plan and found a cushty job grabbing oddles of hours, then rumours start to fly about new routes and FO being sought out. So I need to get my IR done sharpish. However, I was still working as an FI and my boss, although happy for me to gad off during the week, wanted me back and working at the weekend. Believe me, IR during the week and instructing at the weekend with no time off inbetween(and a nasty 120 mile drive each way) almost killed me. I was a wreck by the end of it and how I managed to cobble together a successful IRT is anyones guess.
However the experience that instructing gives you, the stamina you have in flying 5 hours a day, the familiarisation with being airbourne, confidence on the radio and your all round airmanship that you cannot help but develop being an FI, this all helps you in your IR.

However, for once I have to agree with MJ :uhoh:

If I could do my training again, I would get myself fully minted with CPL/ME/IR/FI. Only then would I go and start sniffing out my first FI job. I would only start to make a nuisance of myself to the TP operators once I had clocked over 1000 hours and not before.

[buster172]

FFF, mad-Jock and GusHoneybun,

Thank you all for your replies. I have made up my mind now with your help and after a lot of head scratching/banging :{ chosen to do the FI rating after the CPL. I am not in a huge rush for an airline job and whilst its something I do want to do I also want to instruct and climb the ladder so to speak.

I have spent much of today outlining the timescales, trying to calculate best and worse case scenarios and have a plan. This I will take to HSBC this week and see what they come up with. After that I am going to shop around further banks to see what’s the best deal and hopefully, in a month or two have the funds to begin. Looking forward immensely to receiving some shiny new books courtesy of Bristol GS.

I’ll let you all know how it goes with the bank and hopefully I can pass on some pointers, if successful!

Thanks for all the help.

Kind regards,

Buster


:ok:

[mad_jock]

Go for it buster and i wish you all success.

Make a plan and stick to it unless there is a real reason to change it

Enjoy your days as a FI its some of the best flying you will ever do.

MJ

[boeingbus2002]

buster,
What sort of gliders do u use? Would you be able to get a job or even volunteer towing them as a means to build up hours? (Club members seem to get preference for these things!)
It could mean towing to build hours (a lot of towing required!), using your funds for ME/IR.

FI route is still valuable though, something im trying to save up towards after doing ME/IR and no flying job!

[PaddyMcGinty]

You didnt mention what kinda hours you have? I take it you have taken into consideration the 150 needed for your CPL. I'm also in your position with my PPL and NR but i have decided to go down the CPL/Instructor route. Best of luck with it.

Steve

[buster172]

Mad-jock, Boeingbus and Paddy thanks very much for your posts.

Its great to get support like this. It is very daunting when you have people telling you they wouldn’t do it and that its such a huge risk etc etc. What would we do without Pprune ?

Boeingbus

I fly a Grob Vigilant motor glider. Its flown like a conventional aircraft except in the final approach. All the approaches are glide approaches. I do have friends who run a very successful gliding field in my neck of the woods and I have enquired about towing. I believe as you say they prefer the tug pilots to have conventional gliding experience. The Pawnee they use does look great fun!

If you’re having trouble raising the money for your FI rating have you considered a career development loan? If you do a search on these forums you will find lots of info but I believe you can borrow up to £8000 for a course. That should cover your FI rating with a bit to spare? Good luck with it as the little instructing I have done so far has been very rewarding.

Paddy,

I have approximately 70 hours TT on Cessna aircraft and approx 50 hours TT on the Vigilant. I contacted the CAA to see about my Vigilant hours but only a small percentage of those hours may be put toward a CPL. I am planning to do my hour building after the ground school. As much as I would like to pop off to the states just now for a wee holiday I thought the hours would be best spent immediately before my CPL training so that I am current on type with my standards as high as possible. I am looking at structuring the hours so that at the end I will be flying to a level in excess of that required for the CPL. Apparently this is possible! :}

Will be back again in a few weeks to post my experiences with the banks.

Thanks again for all your replies and encouragement.

All the best and every success in your own training.

Kind regards,

Buster


;)