RAF Regiment - or Army?

[BEagle]

This is a simple query on behalf of someone else:

What attracts someone to join the RAF Regiment as a commissioned officer rather than the regular Army?

Given the choice for a school leaver, precisely what are the pros and cons of RAF Regt vs. Army?

....and I do know, of course, that there's more to being a Regt officer than just being in charge of the bananas and looking after station GDT/ODT/CCS or whatever 'gas and guns' is called nowadays!

[Big Unit Specialist]

I would encourage any school leaver to join the Regt because.....well the main thing is it's different form the army.
You are in the first instance going to be employed amongst air-minded people - always a good thing?? Secondly you are not tied to any particular specialisation for your whole career - Infantry (Field Sqns), Air Defence (Rapier - but for how long?), NBC (nuff said), Force Protection, Combat Survival Training, Training establishments various, Forward Air Control and then there's the out of branch (whoops - out of Corps) tours - with the Army (16 Air Assault, OPTAG, Sandhurst (instructor), etc, etc.
You can now go all the way (almost) to the top - NB the increasing numbers of 2* + that there are.

19 Years man and boy in the Corps. "Proud to serve" and never a dull moment.

Oh and let's face it you usually have both your bed and your toilet provided in a sturdy non moveable form.

Downside is that you will probably be deployed 8 months out of every year.

Oh yes and there are the NATO jobs.

Greetings from Kabul!!:ok:

[TC27]

There seems to be a big push to get new recruits to look at joining the RAF regiment.

[PPRuNe Pop]

Never seen a better drill squad! Except the US marines - maybe!

[Big Unit Specialist]

There is one more thing.. no girls (in the regulars).

Now I'm probably opening myself up for some abuse/intelligent debate.

If the policy were to change I for one would be very welcoming as long as they passed the same selection/achieved the same training standards ...... other branches discuss?! :}

[althenick]

For your entertainment - I heard this one from a mate of mine so don't shoot the messenger....

ROCKAPE - A Crab, who dresses like a Pongo, and thinks he's a Bootneck.

Mate had just joined the Marines BTW:D

[Big Unit Specialist]

Question: Who were the last UK unit (other than special forces) to parachute into an operational theatre?

Answer: RAF Regt - Sierra Leone

Tell that to the Paras (tee hee!):D

[jwca]

Was that the "operational" para drop that had a crowd line?

[RubiC Cube]

But do remember recent newspaper rumours that the Regiment was going to be taken over by the Army.

[Grimweasel]

Army means better postings and a larger choice of jobs. The RAF Reg are very good at what they do, but really, its just for poofs that are too scared to join the Army!!

Stag on and guard that airhead rock ape!!b

[Blacksheep]

That RAF on the front of the word Regiment stands for "Royal Air Force" Says it all really. Utter superiority over the hiking and sailing fraternity. Why would anyone settle for second best?

[force_ale]

If they are so good why is it that their place of work has to be protected by techies and admin clerks.:D

[whowhenwhy]

Possibly because their "leaders" aren't sadistic enough to send them out on guard as well as train all day and spend 8 months every 12 away on ops! Besides, if you've got some other bu*ger to do something, why bother putting your own name down??

[Pontius Navigator]

jwca,

Crowd lines go with modern warfare. But then they went with Napoleonic warfare too.

Remember the macho invasion of Somalia? The newsie, standing up,who helpfully pointed out the the grunt, head down in the sand, that he had dropped his wrist watch?

Remember the crowd lines in Umm Quasr and Bagadad?

Accuracy and precision from well trained forces means that civilians are relatively safe if they are separate from the bad guys. Even Afghanistan had a crowd line and cheering crowds as our friends lowered the profiles of the mountains.

[flygunz]

Whenever I worked with the RAF Regiment I found them to be highly professional and motivated. Whoever created the idea of aggressive self protection for the RAF did a good job. The downside as I've always seen it, and you pompous gits in the RAF are terrible at this, is the way the Regiment is looked down on as the lowest form of life that the RAF can produce.
I tried to promote the idea that the AAC should have an 'AAC Regiment' based on the the same principles of the RAF Regiment providing protection to the fleet of utility and Attack helicopters. The repsonse was typically short sighted by the AAC hence no protection exists for a very expensive asset.

If the person with the choice wants a fully rounded career as an Officer then he should join the Army, if a more narrow field of expertise is what he wants then the RAF Regiment fits that bill. Incidentally, I don't see it as a downside having girls around but perhaps that's because I'm heterosexual!

PPrune Pop - I suspect you have never seen proper drill, go watch the Trooping.

[lasernigel]

Agree with Grimweasal,being ex REME(the very best) it's a matter of names. Does Rock Ape sound more appealing than Woopert or Wodney?Don't know what it's like in the RAF but know that SNCO's run the Army and officers just sign things.

[adrian mole]

Only problem I found with the RAF Regt is they cannot get their head around shift workers. In both Afghanistan and Kuwait they would assume anyone sleeping in a tent during the day were skiiving and would drag 'em out to fill sand bags, never listening to reason...

[Big Unit Specialist]

Entertaining debate starting here - as far as the RAF treating RAF Regt as the lowest form of life, I would suggest that that is now not true. All of the Drivers Airframe and associated oily mechanic types seem to enjoy having us around now...could it be that we have proven to be useful in ensuring that:

a. The Gods of the sky have somewhere safe to take off from and

b. It's still there when they get back!

Oh, and shift workers are all skivers and should be grateful for the experience of filling sandbags etc....... only kidding!

One further final(ish) point, I tried the army; found it far too much like hard work and opted for the easy life. Or was it that I saw the light? You decide.

All for having girls in the Regt - I say again, they should pass the same selection/entry criteria.

And yes it was far tooooooooo hard in the army all that polo practice and those riding lessons at early o'clock, played havoc with the social life don't you know!

:ok:

Ed C is now a civilian doing something in the city (owning most of it) and is still a gentleman.

[BEagle]

Aircrew in the RAF don't 'look down' on the RAF Regt - maybe banter them a bit, but that's all part of the game.

Plus getting on with the Regt SNCOs during CCS is a smart move. Show interest, ask the odd intelligent question and understand their role in life - and you might get away with one less CS pellet in the RTF if nothing else. Grumble about "B£oody waste of time this NBC farce" and deserve all you get!

RAF Regt has a good reputation for esprit de corps - and looks after its own very well.

[Bill O'Average]

What purpose do the RAF regt serve? Now you may quote airfield defence etc but as we all know, most in theatre airfields are so far back that the laundry has to get sent forward. As for Rapier? Say no more.

I spent an awful lot of time training Rocks at Catterick back in the good old days when the RAF had a proper fire service, also trained at said establishment. I just
don’t see the need for such an expensive resource in this day and age of massive cuts.

As for the AAC requiring an equivalent of the Rocks to defend the shiny new pointy thing. They do, it’s called the Inf or to be more precise, the Parachute regt. (Cant see them chucking themselves out of a C17 collecting medals in the future, can you?)

BTW, maybe the reason for the time of this posting is because I’m not actually in Blighty? There’s a thought!

[STANDTO]

The Regt was actually my sixth branch choice at OASC

Passed pilot, failed nav (2 down)
Failed Fighter Controller (3 down)
Failed ATC(4 down)
too young for Provost Officer (21 then, so 5 down)

But I wanted a commission, and having looked at it long and hard, it allowed me to be in the service I wanted to be in, doing something 'operational' rather than blunting.

As it turned out, my lickle legs were never built for all that running about, and I ended up a pensioner. Great bunch O' lads, and offers something a little bit different on the CV. Ed C was a case in point, rather than joining some Army outfit with more silver than long John himself.

Anyone out there went through IOT with him? I am just wondering what eventually happened to a chap on his flight, who was chopped pilot and went Nav. PM me if Uthink you can help

[Big Unit Specialist]

Bill O'average

Are you trying for a bite? You'll have to get up a bit earlier if you want some sport......
Incidentally it appears that your information is a little out of date as far as where the Regt works: in the current spat a Regt Sqn was in amongst it in the Al Rumalya oil fields and other Sqns were securing forward HLSs and refuelling points etc well beyond the reach of most laundry services... does this count as a bite?....bug#er!
Whatever, 'tis fun and we're usually pretty far forward. In GW 1 a certain unnamed Regt formation cw refuellers outdistanced the forward recce elements of UK armour!!! That was a bit of an error but none the less we were in front and actually could have done with the forward laundry service!

[sittingstress]

I joined the Regt for several reasons, one of the minor ones being a point my Father raised. He used to tell me that the mark of a service was how you were addressed. In the Army it is "Oi, YOU! Swear swear etc.". Whereas in the RAF it is, "Gentlemen.......". So far, (20 years and 6 months later), he has been proved right.

As an ex-Stn and Recruit Training GDT Rock I worked it out that I have gassed approximately 30,000 people! What job, and I get paid!!!

Now I just strip them down and have "chats" with them in Cornwall amongst other places.

B.U.S. Where you ever OC of the Winged Wheel Flight?

Regards

ss

PS It is nice to read the comments dishing the praise out. Thank you.

[scroggs]

My brother is the son of a 2* fighter pilot, the brother of a truckie pilot, and spent 17 years in the RAF Regt., rising to the dizzy height of Corporal. He retired (medical) about 6 or 7 years ago, yet he has more friends in more branches of all the services (and at all ranks) than his Dad and brother put together. He fought in a number of wars (very much at the sharp end where people get Hurt), and loved every minute of his service.

Through direct contact with him and his colleagues, I can vouch that the RAF Regt. is one of the most respected, professional and highly-motivated elements of any of the Armed Services, and that, pretty much to a man, none of them would rather be doing any other job.

I can't think of an outfit I'd prefer to be a leader of.

[BEagle]

Thanks for all your help, peeps, the youngster who PM'd me to ask for this info has been courteous enough to express his thanks to you all!

..and I've never EVER seen a scruffy Rock! More than you can say for some eccentric cavalwy wooperts, I regret to say!

[Pontius Navigator]

Rock guard airfields are REMF?

No, many airfields are so far back that the country between the forward elements and the airfields is essentially empty and available to be contested. The very potential of the RAF Regt to patrol this middle ground keeps it safe.

My daughter was in the Aux. When on exercise in the US they were treated as SF.

Incidentally the exercise was called Rolling Rock. Sense of self-humour? The yanks had an SofH too, let her drive a tank and lead a section. She got three 'kills' before her position was over run. Only because on of the US reservists had compromised the OP when he came back with some cokes!

[Bill O'Average]

When on exercise in the US they were treated as SF.


The Yanks treat the Salvation Army as SF. Not exactly a plus point is it?


Remarkable that everyone is blowing smoke out of the Rocks botties.

In the Army, we have what used to be called the Royal Pioneer Corps.;)

[EJ Thribb]

An interesting thread, I thought we all disliked them in equal measure but clearly they do have their fans.

However, amongst all of this apparent adulation I can't bring to mind a single person who has achieved fame in the RAF Regt. I can reel off hundreds of famous soldiers and even aircrew types. Can anybody put me straight on this?

[Big Unit Specialist]

Bill O'Average,

Were you frightened by a Rock early in your life or are you just ignorant (and I mean that to be taken in the context of it's true definition - ie not knowing) of what the Regt really do? As a Corps they are employed in a wide variety of specialist roles and have proved their worth in all of the recent spats in all areas - front line, rear areas, at home with mum, bits in between and very significantly embedded in high level combined/joint HQs.

The USAF at the behest of Gen Jumper have even formed specialist units - Contingency Support Groups - based on RAF Regt lines although they have all the toys the Regt can only dream of - A sqn of transport aircraft, 1 or multiple Coys of specialist highly mobile (and RANGER trained!!!!!! - tongue firmly in cheek) defence forces, a HQ Group, force protection assets up the ying yang (incl med techs, flight surgeons, OSI (sneaky guys), fire and rescue, EOD etc) and material without end...

As for famous Rocks, we tend to be modest don't you know and actually don't need the smoke blowing thingy 'cos we know we are that good! ;)

Check out recent London Gazette Honours Supplements (the operational ones) and you may be surprised by the number of Rocks listed there ...:p

[EJ Thribb]

BUS

Er, that will be a no to any famous Rock Apes then?

[Big Unit Specialist]

EJ Thribb,

I think you may have something there - as you well know we are employed guarding the laundry etc so what chance does one have of becoming famous.........

Any further banter would be welcomed. Oh and please name all of those hundreds of famous aircrew and army types......go on I dare you!

Pontious Nav,

Served with some Aux Regt girls in Kuwait - very good at what they were doing, in some cases putting the regular young lads to shame. Top lasses.

[EJ Thribb]

Er...Right, OK then.

Lord Flasheart
Capt Blackadder
Tommy Atkins

Hows that for starters?

[Pontius Navigator]

BUS, I know one who should have been there. She did SS but decided to press on with her civ pol career even though her Chief Constable supported her for DS. Her GF was in the SAS and she was 6 foot plus!

[Bill O'Average]

Served with some Aux Regt girls in Kuwait - very good at what they were doing, in some cases putting the regular young lads to shame. Top lasses.


Say no more.:p

[northernmonkey]

Beagle wrote
I have never EVER seen a scruffy Rock.

You should have seen the tribe of misfits that represented the Rockapes on the display team last season. To punish them for thier scruffiness I swiped to Body locking pin and Cocking handle on thier SA80 & 9mm pistol and hoyed them in the sea:D

They perform a beach assault like the towns womens guild assault a fruitcake.

Always Gobby in Wilts would do well on the Display team, getting up by spotty children could be not only his hobby but his occupation too

[Always_broken_in_wilts]

Just got in from the pub I see NM:rolleyes:

all spelling mistakes are "df" alcohol induced

[Thud_and_Blunder]

Perhaps we were just lucky in the SH world - the Rocks we used to have looking after us were usually the best you could hope for. The ones with Soft and Fluffy Flight in GW1 proved themselves very capable; after our (second-hand, clapped-out) M134s were delivered the Regt lads volunteered to become our LHS gunners. Came with us on all the later, interesting jaunts - very much part of the crew. Same with the gentlemen in Croatia in 1996.

I also worked for/ with an ex-Sqn Cdr of 2 Sqn when he was a Contract Officer in the Sulan's Armed Forces in Oman. He was running the Security Forces in the northern, Musandam Peninsula - the bit that sticks up into the Straits of Hormuz. As competent, professional and downright pleasant an officer you could ever wish to meet. He still does ultra-marathons (or whatever they're called...) despite being respectably over 60.

Fame? You'll be pointing out - like the Americans did with their USAF Security Police in Vietnam - that if units aren't getting high body-counts or other attention-grabbing results, then they aren't worth keeping. The fact that the SecPols had prevented squillions of dollars worth of damage from NV/VC sapper/mortar attacks didn't seem to occur to their detractors.

RAF Regiment? Top job choice if you don't feel like going aircrew - but please PLEASE don't go Provost! (only advice my dad gave me after his 26 years as an RAF pilot was "all coppers is bastards" - he was right!)

[Boy_From_Brazil]

I understand that the Regiment is doing an outstanding and very professional job at Basrah. Well done lads, ignore all the cr@p in this thread.

BFB

[sittingstress]

I do believe the following esteemed gentleman once bore the Mudguards for Queen and Country:

Max Bygraves

I am happy to be corrected if someone knows differently though

Regards

ss

[Maple 01]

owever, amongst all of this apparent adulation I can't bring to mind a single person who has achieved fame in the RAF Regt.

The Butcher in Coltishall village used to be a Rock Ape........


-Nick

[EJ Thribb]

That settles it then! The RAF Regt's loss is Norfolk's gain.

[allan907]

Well.... he wasn't exactly famous but there was a certain SAC rock at Odiham at about the time that the Magna Carta was signed who was caught 'in flagrante delicto' (latin for act of committing a crime - I know that pilots read this) with a steward from the same station.

He was of course nicked and after the rest of the night spent in the guardroom (wonder if they put the steward in with him?) was hauled in front of his junior subordinate commander - a macho rock through and through.

Having remanded him to the Senior Subordinate Commander on his way to the staish and subsequent Court Martial he had him marched out and, as is the custom, brought him straight back in for the bollocking (couldn't miss the chance).

Apparently the flt cdr was virtually stumped for words and stuttered, "Jones, how, how, how on earth could you do that? You're in the Regiment!"

Jones, ramrod straight with his thumbs on the seams of his OGs replied,

"Sah, If you haven't tried it - don't knock it"

Now, with an attitude like that, that bloke is a hero and has to be famous!!

As told to me by one of my cpls who was the guy's escort at the time.

[Bill O'Average]

So, to summerise. The Rocks are a bunch of small butcher shop owning crooners with a penchant for 'blue on blue' and have the skills that a doris in the Aux wouldnt be proud of.

Thought so.:p

[Always_broken_in_wilts]

Don't bite Chutley.........Old Bill gets a bit rude like that when he's been on the sauce:rolleyes:

all spelling mistakes are "df" alcohol induced

[Bill O'Average]

Doubt it. Used to have great sport at Catters in the old days. Get warmed up filling rocks in then move on to a proper fight.:E

So you're saying two blokes pillow biting is a manly occupation then?

[Big Unit Specialist]

Bill O'A,

The evidence is pointing to:

You were frightened by a Rock a long time ago;

You have an irrational fear of your own latent homosexuality;

You are making up stories to banish the memories of waking up with a crowd round you at Catterick some moons ago.

Or I might be wrong?:}

[Quagger]

A bit late on this one, but here goes:

EJ Thribb
I can't bring to mind a single person who has achieved fame in the RAF Regt.
Brian Clough and Peter Alliss spring to mind. Rocks tend to be a modest sort, so not suprised you haven't heard of many.

Bill O'Average you appear to be a knob of the highest order, keep taking the pills.....

[Roger the cabin boy]

Good idea to get rid of GBAD to the RA. In fact, what we should do is gather together the soldiers of whatever persuasion, and call it the "Army". All the aircraft and helicopters in the Forces, and call it the "Royal Air Force", and finally all boats and things nautical, and call it the "Royal Navy". Now that'd work!

You can be different and Joint at the same time.

Roger out!

[Argus]

Pardon me as a latecomer to this thread.

Years ago, when God was in his heaven, the Fleet Air Arm owned RNAS Lossiemouth, and operated various types of aircraft from HMS FULMAR. For those of us intrepid aviators who ventured to the skies at night, the primary water based SAR was some form of 'boat' that answered to the callsign of "Crash Boat One". OK, fair enough, perhaps some pathetic fishead attempt at humour. But said ‘boat’, allegedly some ex WW2 air sea rescue vessel that was berthed alongside in Lossiemouth harbour, was crewed not by Jolly Jack, but by HM's finest crabs a la Rock, and skippered by FSGT Mc........, who could be relied on totally to convey Glen Morangie from Tain to LM.

Now that's jointery!

[NURSE]

"However, while the budget for Britain's national security will be boosted by "significantly more" than the average, Geoff Hoon, the Defence Secretary, is preparing to make major cuts in the Armed Forces after receiving only a one per cent increase.

The Royal Air Force is facing the most far-reaching cuts in its 86-year history and Mr Hoon will tell the Commons next week that the service will lose up to 7,000 personnel - more than 14 per cent of its total strength of 48,635. The Royal Navy will lose up to 3,000 sailors and the Army is to shed at least four battalions.

The cuts are designed to "rebalance" the Armed Forces and to claw back a £1.9 billion budget deficit. They will, according to defence chiefs, have the effect of making both the RAF and the Royal Navy subservient to the Army, not just in strength but also in operational importance - a galling prospect for the Navy which has seen itself as the "senior service".

Under the shake-up, almost the entire RAF Regiment, which is responsible for security at bases, will be disbanded. The two remaining Jaguar squadrons will also go as will all of the RAF's 39 Puma transport helicopters and 79 GR7 Harrier jump jets. Up to five air bases will close. The cuts will also exact a heavy price from the Navy, which will lose at least six surface ships, two Type 23 frigates and four Type 42 destroyers and one, possibly two, nuclear submarines.

The Army is expected to lose at least four out of 40 infantry battalions and up to 50 Challenger II tanks and 50 Warrior armoured infantry vehicles. The Army Air Corps will also suffer the prospect of losing its entire fleet of 118 two-seat Gazelle reconnaissance helicopters.
"

Sunday Telegraph 11/07/2003

so the Rock apes have an impressive past but looks like no future.

[Big Cheese1]

I wouldn't look too much into the torygraph.

It seems to me that they're printing these sort of scare stories every other day, and as far as I know, gunners are the only 'trade' actively recruiting at the AFCO's at present.

[Flatus Veteranus]

It would be ironic if RAF protection were handed back to the Army.
The Rocks were formed during WW2 because the Army would/could not do that job.

It goes against the grain to be nice to the Rocks; our battles on 208 against the local Rock squadron at Abu Sueir left scars! Nevertheless, they are a highly professional bunch because they are led by highly professional officers who are not there for the social éclat and do not leave all the management to the NCOs. The origins of their ethos go back to the influx of ex-Indian Army officers into the Regt after Indian independence in 1947. And anyone who knows anything about the British Army will recognise that the best officers professionally, and the cream of the pre-war Sandhurst output, went to India - where they did not need to ponce around the London season.

The best staff officers at the Officers Advanced Training School, Bircham newton, when I did the course in 1953, were ex-Indian Army rocks - including the Commandant.

[Always_broken_in_wilts]

The thing I find most ironic is that despite 30 years of service I can't think of anytime in my past where I actually found "rock's" defending an airfield:}

Techie's, Bluntie's and even Aircrew have always guarded the gate while the rock's just fecked guys around on an annual basis :yuk: So guess what goes around etc!!!

I for one will not mourn their passing however the alternative scares the living crap out of me:sad: Those who thought Rock's were mindless individuals have a huge wake up call once the Pongoe's take over..............CCS with squadies...god help us:rolleyes:

all spelling mistakes are "df" alcohol induced

[Quagger]

Aircrew doing gate guard......I don't think so. :suspect:

I didn't think the Rocks were supposed to 'defend' UK airbases, more the overseas expeditionary stuff. The Regt Sqns seem to be away a lot, so they must be doing something.

Hmmm, CCS with the Army - can't wait. :uhoh:

[Always_broken_in_wilts]

So Aircrew don't guard the gate.........tecnically you are correct cos as Guard Commander you are not actually on stag...........:rolleyes:

However come to Wilts and see how many ALM's and Eng's do that task in the course of 365 days and I bet it's a **** sight more than our lovely rock's.............or scuffers for that matter....do :}

Hence they will not be missed:ok:

all spelling mistakes are "df" alcohol induced

[Quagger]

Don't know how many Regt are in Wilts, but I'm betting there's loads of ALM's and Eng's :}

Interesting how you judge someones worth by how much gate guard/Guard Commander they do:rolleyes:

[Always_broken_in_wilts]

Sorry Quakker but guessed you missed the irony in my posts.........I was merely pointing out that everyone guards our lovely Wiltshire base.............apart from those whose advertised role is that of Airfield Defense...........

"The RAF Regiment is an elite fighting force that provides ground and short-range air defence to RAF operational assets anywhere in the world".............taken from the RAF Careers website.......but I think it should say "anywhere in the world apart from UK":E

No judgment call made......just a life time of observation :ok:

all spelling mistakes are "df" alcohol induced

[Quagger]

Fair one. Quak Quak!! :D

[Navaleye]

Times have changed. We are not facing hordes of Spetznaz trying to attack our airfields or ammunition dumps. Perhaps it is time to recognise the changed circumstances and integrate to Regt into the regular army as their is a strong overlap between the two.

[I_stood_in_the_door]

Naval,

My oh my. If there is no job for the RAF Regt (II Para as they like to call themselves - we know there is only one 2 PARA lads. Remember cyprus?) Disband the chaps in blue and free up more slots for a group of people who want to be in the army - not just play it when they feel like it.

If the Regts primary aim is airfield or installation defence (I may be wrong, standby), shouldn't they have a trade behind them and guard bases as part of force protection like all the other SACs and LACs that do a fine job when there stag comes up and still manage to fix planes or whatever they do (sorry to generalise peeps, but pork sausages are not blessed with top typing skills!!)

Integrate my A***E. Disband the buggers!!

Regards to all

ISITD

lfogootfw

:}

[Big Cheese1]

Well as far as I know, the entire field force was in full swing during telic1, so there must be a demand for them.

However, I'm justa mere wannabe so don't take my word for it.

[ORAC]

If one was being cut and replaced by the other a case could be made for it, if the costs of reorganisation could be shown, over time, to be less than the savings accrued.

But, of course, they won´t be. The Regiment will be chopped, the Treasury will take the money and the army will be given the job with no additional funding and told to fund it through "efficiency" savings.

So the tasks presently undertaken will never get done, as they will have a lower priority than the ones the army are struggling to meet now......

[Rotary Pongo]

My Word.......


Not like the RAF to get bitter and abuse any anti-RAF posts.


Thank god I joined the Army.

Flatus Somethingus wrote

'they are a highly professional bunch because they are led by highly professional officers who are not there for the social éclat and do not leave all the management to the NCOs.'

Oh dear...have you ever actually been on ops with an Infantry Battalion?

I wish I'd spent 6 months at Sleaford Tech and then run around telling all how I could well be SF.

Cheers lads.


Very fuuny. When was the last time we used the RAF Regt to launch (a real) assault then?

They parachuted into Sierra Leone did they? First I'd heard of it. They're all Para trained all of a sudden? I bet the Paras will transfer in their droves.

This should be funny.......

[Big Cheese1]

Rotary Pongo,

I took the liberty of finding out the various jobs that 'the Regt' undertook on telic1.

1 sqn : Joined 16AAB to secure Rumalyah oilfields
2 sqn : Cat 2 support for SF
34 sqn : Provided force protection for elements of 3 Cdo Bde, and paired with a RM Coy
51/QCS : Provided support for joint helicopter force and took Safwan airstrip with USMC armour

Now obviously this is just the field force, and is just a generalisation of what their field of tasks were. I'm in contact with a serving Regt officer, so if you would like more gen I'll ask.

In regards to them being para trained, they must be referring to 2 sqn, which is para trained and jumps on a regular basis.

Hope this has been of interest for you!

[Eagle 270]

They are damn good at marching though!

Grosse frommage, nice collection of badges by the sounds of it.

Transfer the lot, the pongos could do with the man power.

[The Burning Bush]

I'm sure the Royal Army would love some extra well trained manpower, it's not going to happen though. Loads of Army bods transfer over to us, and stay. I only know of 2 Regt bods transferring to the Army, guess what, they are both civvies now.

Funny how many Army posters there are on this thread, normally with a gripe about us. Jealousy is a terrible thing, my advice; stick to ARRSE. The Regt's main advantage over the Army of course, is that the average Gnr is invariably more intelligent than his Army counterpart (Infantry), we also reward and encourage initiative in the lower ranks, something I have noticed is actively discouraged in the Army (Inf).

Yes, we probably will lose GBAD to the Army, despite proving recently that we can operate the kit much more effectively. I gather most of the Army kits were operating - No IFF, Wpns Free :E Well, if you pay peanuts..............

So, GBAD goes. Well, so what. We have many more strings to our bow. The Regt is quite safe, thank you very much. Trainee Gnr courses are running at max rate. Not like the ATE Nr Camb 20 trg teams sitting around doing nothing - no students:{ Or is it another investigation;) Retention is good, and promotion is also back to cold war rates. Not complacent, just confident in our worth:ok:

[Eagle 270]

Bush, as long as you are happy. I think some of the pongoes may have a bit of a sense of humour failure at some of your comments! But I doubt they will understand the irony.

[airborne_artist]

The infantry are primarily trained as offensive forces, ie take ground, hold it, move on to take more. Defence is something they do (for quite a short time, in open warfare) as a result of a successful offensive phase.

RAF Regt are trained to protect and escort RAF assets in an active environment - which is not the same as above.

Particularly with the infantry being amalgated in droves (see Telegraph 16 July) it is probably more effective to have a dedicated RAF protection force, rather than rotate Army infantry through what they would see as a secondary task.

The parallel I'd draw is with the Marines. In all the recent discussions no-one has suggested, as far as I know, moving them to Army control, despite the fact that they are probably far more integrated with the Army (they have attached REME, RE, Gunner units all the time) than RAF Regt.

[pr00ne]

The "Delivering Security in changing world: Future capabilities;" published on Wednesday lists the force structures required in a range of different sized scenarios. In every one of them the line on RAF Regiment lists '9 RAF Regiment Field Squadrons'.

Being bored I looked at the RAF web site and can only find 5 of them, plus two to be brought up to full deployed size ( 3 and 63). Does this mean that the Rocks can look forward to forming two more Field Squadrons, or maybe re-role two of the Rapier squadrons for the chop?

(Sister married to a Rock Flt Lt, he would like to know but isn't allowed to ask......)

[rivetjoint]

The rest are RAuxAF I'd guess, not to be underestimated!

[Vortex_Generator]

I am glad that the RAF Regiment haven't been chopped. Had they been, all the ugly WRAF would have been forced to look elswhere!

[A D ENUFF]

BEagle
I understand your friend would like to know the difference between the Army and the RAF Regt. The answer will depend on WHAT he wants to do. Presumably he has the desire to be a soldier of some sort. If thats the case may i suggest that he considers the Marines. Undoubtedly the BEST soldiers in the British military.

If he's leaving school and seriously cosidering it then tell him to set his sights on the top and not to accept second best from the start.

Dash..............down...............crawl...............obs erve.

Awaiting incoming !!!!!!

[polyglory]

Next to the 27th Foot,

I agree:D

[Tony Chambers]

hey good question and im a bit torn myself was army air corps and now considering rockapes well the infantry offer not very much and the RAF offer a better lifestyle so i say RAF REG.

[TheBeeKeeper]

Surely this is all more a question of breeding..... the RAF accept people into the Regt for who they are, not for the size of thier bank balance, proof of £30k external income every year to support the 'Mess Life', and being related to Fin Tim, Lim Bim, Bus Stop Ftang Ftang Olay Biscuit Barrel.

Admittedly, not talking about Infantry Regiments here.... entry requirement - A Pulse!

TheBeeKeeper
(DH82b)

[Jerry Can]

I agree with A D Enuff, if you want to be an officer and a soldier the Royal Marines is the way ahead.

So long as you don't mind a spot of naked drinking!!

You'll be in the company of some of the finest people in the British Armed forces. It's a banter rich environment, much better sense of humour than the pongos!

http://www.royal-navy.mod.uk/static/pages/141.html

[Always_broken_in_wilts]

"I understand your friend would like to know the difference between the Army and the RAF Regt. The answer will depend on WHAT he wants to do. Presumably he has the desire to be a soldier of some sort. If thats the case may i suggest that he considers the Marines. Undoubtedly the BEST soldiers in the British military."

What utter tosh..........the BEST soldiers in the British Military have long hair and Mexican tashes....end of story :E

all spelling mistakes are "df" alcohol induced

[BATCO]

Always broken etc
Without doubt you are right. The hooligans get my vote (and that of Uncle Sam).

But do the maths: 4 x sqns of 4 x troops of approx 16. Add HQ, trg, and that's under 400.

Add some TA to cover the weekends, some with Green hats for the wet stuff. Can't do the maths but that's still not many, and as debate elswhere argues 'quantity is a quality'.

Oh, and I don't think they take direct entrants so prospective 'BEST in the British Military' has to start somewhere. And a good enough proportion have made that start in the RAF Regt.:cool:

Original Question with personal answers:
1.What attracts someone to join the RAF Regiment as a commissioned officer rather than the regular Army?

2.Given the choice for a school leaver, precisely what are the pros and cons of RAF Regt vs. Army?


1. 3rd on the list after RM and Inf but they wouldn\'t have me! (Honesty is the best policy)

2. With loss of GBAD fewer pros than last week. Remaining pros: RAF Regt much like the Army but without some of the more tiresome aspects of mess/regtl life (some guess work there but notwithstanding answer 1, I\'ve spent most of my career with Army! next tour also and I\'m still :D ).
Cons: no real command above sqn level. Old whinges I know but there is no RAF equivalent to the saying " there\'s a Field Marshal\'s baton in the knapsack of every Private".

If I was 18 again...........................1.RM 2.Army 3. RAF Regt (with apologies to all Regt colleagues from last 23 years)

[airborne_artist]

But do the maths: 4 x sqns of 4 x troops of approx 16. Add HQ, trg, and that's under 400.

Not only is there no direct entry, but there is no "guaranteed" career in the regt on passing selection, for JNCOs or officers. A good 50% of JNCOs return to their parent regt. on completing 3 years. Even those who stay at that point do not get on the Regt Cadre for another few years.

Officers get a troop command, some come back for a Sqn command, three get a Regt command. (The two TA Regts have reg Lt Cols as CO).

From a career perspective I'd agree with others and suggest RM as being an excellent career choice for a young wannabe officer. Second option would be Royal Engineers, who are superb in my experience, and have Para and Marine elements.

[BATCO]

So fellow PPRuNers the tally seems to be to either go ahead and join the RAF Regt or the RM. Let's get this straight then.... if you want to do some soldiering you join the ground combat arm of either of the 2 services NOT the Army! Being different might account for this...or not.

Big Unit Spec. You never answered about service on the Winged Wheel, so did you? Were you at LUNGI? Enjoy Kabul.

Greetings from
Dad'sBag

[Big Unit Specialist]

BATCO,

Didn't serve on the winged wheel, nor did I serve at Lunghi - not quite old enough for that though I do still know how to use BATCO..... sad I know!

Regards,

BUS

ps Tardiness of reply due to leave......... a whole month, but in my defence I was moving house.