Kentish Town to Park Lane - An applicant's analogy?

[bazzaman96]

Just as Eliza Doolittle in Pygmalion was transformed from a 'draggletailed guttersnipe' to a distinguished lady, I'd like to ask a question about education in applications for sponsored schemes.

I'm a big fan of equality for all, and this question might seem a little biased from a Cambridge student...

Do sponsorship schemes and training providers look at your degree, and if so, how much emphasis is placed on it? I realise that this will provoke lots of 'you can't tell' answers, but surely it must play a factor? Would, say, a 1st from cambridge help, or is it irrelevant?

The reason I ask is because up until today I was quite optimistic that I would have been good enough as an applicant to these training schemes, but having discovered this site just 2 hours ago I didn't quite appreciate just how many people are applying!

How 'important' is this site in the industry? I.e, other than airliners.net, is this a seminal site, and are the people posting on these forums the 'majority' of those looking for jobs, or is it only a small proportion.

I'm determined to pursue a career in aviation, as a pilot, but want to get some sort of perspective on what my chances could be...and of the thousands of people aiming, how many are wannabes, and how many seriously have a chance.

geesh, that sounded all class-ridden and arrogant there, but i didn't mean it to be! I just wanted to see whether I'm wasting my time really...as the statistics aren't too hopeful...

chin up!

[easyflyer]

Providing you come across in your application as well rounded, and to be honest a good deal of Oxbridge (in addition to non-Oxbridge and non-university) students do, it can only help. From then on in, it's on pure merit - psychometric testing and then to interview - success is kind of regardless of your 1st from Cambridge, but more about you yourself and your fundamental abilities (academic, and perhaps more importantly, beyond).

Fellow Oxbridge grads (I'm a dark blue....) have been known to suggest it's actually a disadvantage.... when you compare a typical 30yo ex-Oxbridge bankers lifestyle to a 30yo airline pilot, recruiters alledgedly often ponder the strength of your attraction to the city - where streets are paved with gold - after a few novelty-wearing-off years flying. There was also one criticism that recruiters didn't "understand" Oxbridge, and in fact were just frightened by it. Please note, this was communicated by just one individual, so I've no clue as to the validity, nor am I entirely sure what she meant by "understand".

To summarise, you've as good a chance as anyone - but expect no special favours....

[bazzaman96]

That's very interesting - thank you! To be honest, I can't think of anything worse than working in the city, which probably sounds a little odd coming from a lawyer!

I don't think many people understand Oxbridge anyway. Sometimes I wonder if I do...

Thanks,

Baz

[no sponsor]

I'm too old for the sponsorship schemes. However I did have a conversation recently with the head of one of the FTO's who runs a couple of the selection procedures for the airlines here in the UK, and he said that the degree did have a bearing. However, unfortunately for you, it was more the subject than where you did it. It was idle chit-chat, but he stated that preference was given to those with an aeronautical-related degree. The reason for this was it gave a far higher chance of the person completing the ground school with first time passes. He also looked for Physics and Sciences at A-levels and GCSEs.

He did not mention the degree result; if a first is looked on more favorably than a 2.1 etc. So if you have a first in physco-babble from Cambridge, I don't think it really matters. In summary, we’re not talking about the same criteria some of your colleagues would have been subjected to when applying for the FCO or certain banks in the square mile.

Personally, I would look long and hard at Flybe before I committed the emotional cost of going for their scheme without the requisite science and aero background. Of course, this was only one scheme, and not representative of them all; I get the impression that British Airways, on their old cadet scheme, did not weed out candidates in this manner.

The nature and style of your question raises some further points you must consider. If you won't apply to sponsorship schemes because too many others apply, then I would say that you need to examine your motivation for the career. Secondly, if you are only looking at doing the career if you can get sponsorship then, again, you need to look at why you are doing it. Sponsorship schemes are highly over-subscribed, and your motivation MAY be looked at closely.

As for this site PPRUNE, well some refuse to look at it, other say they don't, but secretly look at it, and there are certain ops rooms that print topics out and leave them around for people to browse. Generally it is a good source of information for the wannabe. Reading the message at the bottom of all forums will tell you that there are occasions where people hang out their dirty laundry and there are others who have hidden agendas.

[bazzaman96]

Hi 'no sponsor'!

thanks for your comments. I, of course, will apply to sponsorship schemes even if many others apply - I think I've got just as much chance as anyone else - I was not saying that I would give up.

I don't think it's a sign of a 'lack of motivation' to be realistic about these issues though, and question one's chances. It is a tragic shame that the past five years have left everyone in this DIRE situation.

Equally, the comment about suggesting I wouldn't go for it if I couldn't get sponsorship. The simple fact is that there is no way on Earth I could afford it. Again, I'd like to be realistic. I'm willing to chase my dreams, but for several tens of thousands of pounds it would cost to train...well, they don't come everyday. Including, of course, the fact that during this time I won't be earning.

Of course, air travel WILL pick up as more people are travelling by air every day, but with thousands of people screaming for sponsorship, it's tough. And as a career move, even if it's something one loves to do, would it be sensible to invest, say £30,000 and by the time I am 25 be left without a job, and a huge loan to pay back? In honest, I think not.

That shouldn't be a ground to question my motivation, and those who do are probably fooling themself that they are somehow more motivated. Just because you'd sell your right arm off to get on a sponsorship scheme doesn't mean you're doing the scheme for the right reasons, or even that you'd make a good pilot. Hence the reason I asked how 'representative' these message boards are, and how many people posting on here are, in reality, serious candidates.

However, I've tried to do as you suggest, and find a means of funding myself. I'm 21 and launching my own company this Autumn throughout every university in the UK, and some in the Northern USA. I'm co-director of another company at uni. Not many 21 years can say they are director of two companies.

So, to end this mammoth post, please do not think my post reflects negatively on my motivation - I ask merely out of curiousity. For me, it should be about the best person getting the job, and I hope everyone here believes that they are that best person. I am, it is admitted, slightly concerned to read some of the posts to see whether it really IS the best person getting the job - whether the selection procedures really are indicative. As they say, 'one man's rubbish is another man's treasure' - at times it seems like two different companies are looking for completely different things from their sponsored trainees:

Science education/ Non-science
Flight experience/ no flight experience
Good grades/ Good experience
Young/ Experienced

One day we'll know...but that day will be when we've been accepted onto a scheme!

To everyone here, by the way: good luck. And thank you for the replies to my post as well. 'no sponsor' - i didn't mean this reply in a negative way, I just wanted to clarify a couple of my points. Your response is thoughtful, and highly valued.

Regards,

Baz