Irish Air Corps to airline career

[pilatuspc9m]

Hello folks,
I'm going to be finishing a degree in mechanical engineering at the end of May (hopefully) and I have applied to the Irish Air Corps for a cadetship. The chances of getting a cadetship are miniscule (approx. 1 in 35 I think) but I want to be prepared in case I do. As a condition of the cadetship I would be required to sign up for 12 years, with a little over 200 hours flying a year. My question is, how do airlines regard time spent in the Irish Air Corps? Given that I spent four years in university, I'm now 22 and would be leaving the Air Corps at 34, with about 2500-3000 hours under my belt. Would I be in the runnings going for a job with BA/Virgin/Aer Lingus/etc?
Without wanting to sound like an arrogant pr1ck, I happen to be in the fortunate position that I could get my hands on the funds required to go to OAT or somewhere. My point is that my reason for joining the air corps is not to have my training paid for so that I can become an airline pilot, but purely because I think it could be a very interesting experience. However, if I thought spending 12 years in the air corps was going to seriously jeopardise my chances of an airline career then I would probably head straight for somewhere like OAT. This decision will most likely be made for me, but on the off-chance that I do get awarded a cadetship, any help would be great.

Apologies if this is not the appropriate forum for this question.

Thanks,
Pilatuspc9m

[prizefigher]

hey its tricky to get in and iv few mates flyin with them at the moment. rumour is it blackhawk will be new rotor when they get rid of allouette's n dauphin's. if your interested in airline career try sponsorship. havin a degree will be a bonus for you. do u have ppl? its very expensive self sponsoring yourself. well all the best with it man. whichever way ya go?

prizefigher

[Squak2002]

Hello,

I think the most important thing is to find some current pilots there and get the skinney from them. It may say in the brochure that you'll get 200 hours a year but the reaility may be something alot less. Heard a few stories of pilots sitting around for months on end, not too sure how true they are.

Also, you would have to be 100% committed to giving 12 years of your live to the Air Corps, so know what your getting yourself into.

Might be worth taking a trip to Baldonnel and stopping anyone that looks like a pilot!!

Best of Luck!!!!!

John

[stargazer02]

Hi there
just a word of caution.......what happens if you sign up for the Aer Corps and don't make it to the Wings course for whatever reason..
you are then committed to them on your contract for "x" number of years.....and you won't be flying.
Plus knowing some of the lads there you won't be doing too much flying....
My advice is if you have the money for an OAT course then go do it and forget about the defenders of the nation if you are looking for a career in the airlines and not the military.
:cool:

[pilatuspc9m]

Thanks for the replies lads, appreciate it.

prizefigher
Yeah, I realise its tough to get in. I've heard rumours about the blackhawks too, pretty cool. Thinking about a potential airline career though, it'd probably be better to go fixed wing (I think they'll try to accomodate your wishes, but if they are short of heli pilots, thats where you'd be sent).

Squak2002
Your probably right, the only way to get accurate info is from the horses mouth. I have heard though, from what I believe to be fairly reliable sources, that 200hrs is reasonable to expect.

stargazer02
If you don't pass the wings course are you still contracted? That would be a pain in the ass! Something I'll have to look into. As regards the money to go to OAT, I could get my hands on it but it wouldn't be a decision to be taken lightly. I'd be paying it back for a long time. As I was saying, joining the air corps would not be a means to an end. I'd be joining to get the chance to do some pretty cool flying and enjoy the craic of air corps lifestyle. Maybe I'm looking at it through rose tinted glasses, thats something else I'd like to find out.

If (and I realise its a big 'if') I got out at 34 and got into an airline, I'd could potentially have 31 years flying commercially. It would be nice to know if this a realistic prospect. I wouldn't fancy starting from scratch at 34, but surely 12 years with the air corps has got to carry some weight with airline recruiters?

Thanks again lads
pilatus

P.S. - having re-read what I've written, I want to point out that I don't for one minute think that I have an airline career sitting on one plate infront of me and an air corps cadetship on another. Both are long shots and I realise I'd be bloody lucky to have either. Just thinking, thats all.

[Maxiumus]

Blackhawks are on the way alright. They're gonna complement the new F/A 18 squadrons and the whole shebang will be delievered aboard the new 85,000 ton carrier, the L.E. Charlie Haughey

[TwoDeadDogs]

Hi there
As with any military organisation, a pilot officer spends a huge amount of time on non-flying duties. In fact, he spends far,far more time on jobs/duties that are completely unrelated to flying.In the Air Corps, an officer is that first and a pilot second.It's not unusual for a pilot to find himself on some mind-numbing ground task for months on end,especially if he's a young,new guy,fresh out of the egg. If you go in with an engineering degree, you could find yourself in the Apprentice School at some stage,trying to wangle your way back onto the flying detail.
If you go before an interview board and tell them that you only want to join the Don to further your chances of getting an airline job, you'll get the bum's rush in short order. You have to go in and convince them that you absolutely, positively want to devote your self to Mary's Airforce and it's associated Army for a twelve-spot and you think of nowt else every waking day...it also helps if you are the sporty type......If you want to be an airline pilot, ask yourself if you really,really want the job(more than any thing else) and put up with all the attendant hassle and huge cost(paying for Oxford is only the start of the financial mountain you'll have to climb) of trying to get a "start" and are willing to prostitute yourself to the likes of MoL.
On the other hand, if you get into the Don as a pilot, you will have joined a very exclusive club and the old pals act will sort you out for an airline job before you finish your 12.
regards
TDD

[pilatuspc9m]

Lads,
how goes it?

TDD ,
thanks for the reply. You say "It's not unusual for a pilot to find himself on some mind-numbing ground task for months on end". Could you really go for months without actually getting to fly a plane at all? Or is it just that you would get relatively little flying compared to the amount of hours spent at ground work. Any idea of the hours? Do you know if there's any truth to the 200hr a year estimate?
You also mentioned "with an engineering degree, you could find yourself in the Apprentice School at some stage,trying to wangle your way back onto the flying detail". This is something I hadn't thought of. What could a mechanical engineering grad potentially be doing in the apprentice school? It actually sounds like it could be better than doing admin. Again, same question as above, would it be constantly in the Apprentice School with no flying, or mostly in the Apprentice School with some flying?
Also "flying detail", is this when you are assigned to a wing/mission - e.g. maritime patrols or cash escorts? If you're not on flying detailing do you do much flying at all?
As regards the interview, I have no intention of telling an interview board that I was only trying to further my chances of an airline career, largely because it wouldn't be true. If I was offered a cadetship (not likely) and I did accept it (very likely) I would have no wish or expectation to leave before 12 years. Aside from the flying, I actually like what the Air Corps has to offer. After 12 years then I would consider the airline career, but not before. If I thought there was very little chance of securing an airline job after 12 years, I admit I would be less keen to sign up (I have read numerous times on these forums about guys/gals over 30 starting out having great difficulty getting employment). However, the "old pals act" you mention would indicate that this wouldn't be too much of an issue. Could you expand on the "old pals acts"? Obviously I don't want any specifics, but do you reckon old Air Corps buddies would be in a position to put a word in where it counts once your finished the twelve years?

A ridiculous number of questions here TDD, answers to any would be much appreciated.

pilatus

P.S. - apologies for taking this slightly off track from the original airline job related question.

[TwoDeadDogs]

Hi there
As in all military forces, young officers are fodder for the ****ty jobs that the guys above them have moved on from. This is regardless of whether the fella is a pilot or not. As each new batch of fresh lieutenants leaves the training unit, they are allocated ground jobs, for their attention when they are not actually flying.Such jobs include such joys as Mess Officer and Rations Officer, Range safety officer,etc; all suitably ****ty jobs for a new egg to blunt his enthusiasm on. In fact, until a new pilot has been fitted into a squadron's establishment (it's actual amount of people and their function) or has been earmarked for a training course, he/she is in limbo and will be used accordingly. In the Air Corps, the ratio of flight hours to ground hours is firmly loaded against flying time. Unless one gets onto a particularly active Type, one will do as little as 200 per annum, or even less. Because the Air Corps does not operate to a schedule like the airlines, the flying is often erratic and much less likely to occur in the event of bad weather or a change of requirement. The training schedule is routinely shelved if the weather is unsuitable. An airline will fly unless the weather is absolutely appalling. The maintenance schedule also dictates the flying availability. Unlike an airline, where the Schedule is king, in the Military,the spanner-wielders can dictate the fate of the flight schedule(thru events both in and out of their control, such as availability of spares and personnel).
It is appropriate for the officer in charge of the Apprentice school to be of degree level, considering the level to which his charges must be taught. Previously, it was either a pilot(who had ****ed up in some way) or a spare(posted in from an outside source)officer who got the job.That position is usually filled by a Commandant, with a lieutenant flunkey.
The "old pal's act"!!! Well, the pages of PPrune could be filled with stories about that and it's application to job-seeking. Basically, what it means is that, your mates will favour you over other candidates, if they get into an airline before you and get into such positions such as Chief Pilot or Chief training Captain. It doesn't just apply to the Don,of course.It applies to all walks of life, at all levels. The GAA would be a prime example of it, as a non-aviation version.Air Corps pilots going for jobs outside have, like all military pilots, a much better chance than your average joe because they have experience and flight hours that the civvie simply can't match. In addition, the military pilot, by comparison, will have spent ****-all on his flying training and will, therefore, be in a much stronger financial position.
In twelve years time, you'll be a totally different guy, with all sorts of experiences under your belt. You really cannot predict, with even a faint degree of certainty, what you'll do or think in even a year's time, not to mind a decade. You might hate the military, you might love it. You might not even like flying as a job., which is utterly unlike flying for fun. You might fail!!! Who knows??It is certainly not for every one and is both extremely frustrating and rewarding at the same time. I have mates from my Don days that I'll have for life and I met plenty of bolloxes as well.
You should talk to an existing Officer in the Don and try to get an idea of what really goes on. It's not all about flying and can be extremely disappointing if you don't get what you need out of the place. Get your Careers Teacher to ring the Don and set up an interview with a pilot or two. Make it your business to be as fully informed as possible before you go anywhere near an interview.
regards
TDD

[rmcfarlane]

As a dubliner cant believe i'm gonna say this, BUT, what about the RAF.

More flying time, more aircraft, more everything. And its a proven route to civil aviation.

[Global Pilot]

The next 12years flying for military in Ireland looks interesting with the arrival of new fixed wing and rotorcraft. There has always been an old boys club at Baldonnel that looks after its guys when you return to civilian status. There has been a click at City jet and Ryanair for years. Quite a large number of current drivers for both these carriers are ex-Don. I believe for a time a number of Ryanair captains (ex Job) were on a bonus for encouraging Air Corps guys to join them at RYR. I am sure this situation will exist in 2016 when you are out but rest assured by then you will almost certainly have to pay for a type rating.

Regarding the RAF, I would certainly explore this option. Far better career move if you want to be a soldier and fly stuff for the military. Real chance of seeing active service and their equipment is far superior. It is a proven route to BA and Virgin. With so many ex RAF there now and the young guys joining now will be senior captains in 12 years and will be in a position to give you the nod.

[recceguy]

For all the readers, please consider the above topics are only relevant to the Irish Air Corps, which is something very short of an actual Air Force. If I was from that country, I would be quite annoyed in fact.
I spent more than 20 years flying fighters for a well-known and respected european Air Force, including combat missions over Balkans, Iraq and Africa, and I'm now a Captain flying international long-range. I left the AF just because above 43 that sort of life was no longer available, and I joined the airlines to make some money on top on retirement wages, and to have the pleasure to put an aircraft on the ground from time to time.
The rest of the life (social consideration, social relations, people you have to talk with - mainly the cabin crew, career prospects, commitment to something) is quite miserable when compared to my previous life, but what can I do ? I need the money in fact, and I'm not going to run the clock backwards either.
But other people can have different views.

[corsair]

As a dubliner cant believe i'm gonna say this, BUT, what about the RAF.

Forget it you have to be a British citizen since birth or dual nationality. The RAF is a closed book for anyone Irish wanting to fly these days. Has been for some time.

PC9, Go for the Air Corps if you like. If you get it, take it. Despite the 12 year contract. You can leave if you want to earlier than that. The Air Corps barely resembles the sort of Air Force the rest of Europe has. No overseas service, no combat aircraft. It provides s no air defence capability, no offensive capability and cannot even provide a decent transport service for the army. The government took away their air sea rescue capability when the became involved in an unseemly squabble over money. It's more like a flying club than anything else. Even the newish blue uniform they adopted has a gaudy ruritanian appearance.

It will help with the airline career though.

Otherwise take the money on offer and go the airline route. With an Engineering degree you have a fall back option if all else fails.

You are in a good position take advantage of it.

[Hedski]

PC, if you get it take it! However at the mo youngish officers can expect less than 150hours per annum. Can increase later but also decrease again further on. So forget about coming out with 2500-3000hours. I know of one person leaving the RAF soon with only 1300ish after a similar length of time and he was on some of the best jobs!
No fear about being forced onto heli's, no new officers have been let near em recently as far as I'm aware. Talk of Blackhawks only follows the talk of AS350's, 109E's, S92's............ It'll be talk for a while yet!
They've lost SAR and are about lose the top cover element of same so CN235 hours will be slightly down aswell. Set your sights on that though or the new Learjet for best possible setup for the Airlines.
If you decide to go civvy think of places other than OAT as their groundschool in particular is expensive and over-rated. Go the modular route so you can change where you fly if you're not happy, it also works out a bit cheaper. Best groundshcool results come from Bristol GS, trust me!;)
Don't worry if you fail the course, won't happen anyway, but you're not bonded in til you get a commission and that won't happen til the end of the course.
Do look out for the sponsorships as they are making a welcome return. You'll end up with more hours and captaincy a lot quicker, even if you pay your own way RYR still take on low hours civvies!
Whatever happens, keep all options open. Hope this helps.
Hedski