How old is too old to start a new career?

[Voodoobones]

I had an interesting argument with my wife the other night. I got out some aviation study books and started reading. I noticed that my wife gave me a look of disapproval. I asked her what was wrong?

She told me that I have to many irons in the fire and I need to concentrate on one thing and one thing only. She brought up the fact that in my 36.8 years of life I have been a helicopter mechanic, a radio disc jockey, and a computer tech. She said that I needed to finish my education before I started to get back into aviation.

At this point the conversation turned and she wanted to know what I wanted to do with my life. She said if I could pick any career what would I want to do. I told her I always wanted to fly for a living but it just never worked out. She tells me if that is what I want then we will sell the house and move in with her parents so I can finish my flight training and become a commercial pilot.

I told her that was a nice jester but I did not want to move in with her parents and I was to old to start a career as a pilot. I have come to terms that I will never fly for a living and I am content with the idea that flying will always be a hobby.

My question is:
Am I right in thinking that I am too old to start a new career as a commercial pilot?

I have known so many people who got their CFI and never were able to make a decent living. It seems to me that if you are going to be a commercial pilot you better start early and get a lot of education under your belt.

I have 29 hours towards my private fix-wing.

[Send Clowns]

Hehehe, your in mate, hooked and sunk :ok: Glad you have the missus behind you.

Education is not required, beyond O-level standard maths and physics. You are not the ideal age, and must not expect a career ladder to BA captain. However you would be some years off the oldest in my ground school class at the moment. I have taught people up to their mid 40s. Some have suggested that prospects are getting better for older pilots, with small airlines wanting employees to actually stay, and with discrimination legislation.

If you want any further advice don't hesitate to ask more specifically here, or send me a private message - I work for a major FTO so am happy to answer any questions that people have.

Good luck :)

[Voodoobones]

Thanks,
I'm sure I'll have plenty of questions.

[Damo29]

Hi, My question is along the same lines really. I'm currently 29 and like so many others I have decided to pursue a career as a commercial pilot.

I've done a lot of reading around the subject and currently my plan is to self fund myself (with the help of HSBC) through an integrated course. I'm going back to night school first to retake my GCSE maths, and I'm selling my care to clear an existing debt, but all being well I am hoping to enrol at FTO next summer.

I know that there will be alot of challanges to get past before I ever end up at a FTO and I was willing to face all of them. Then i read a few posts that suggested 30 was to old to gain employment with a major airline, and so now I'm wondering if there is any point putting myself through all the hoops.

I would be 30 by teh time i finished my course and then I guess that I would ahve to set about hour building (don't really know much about that yet) and I assume that it will take another year or so to get up to the 2000 mark.

Secondly I wondered if you could give me some idea of the specific mathamatical areas generally tested prior to acceptance at an FTO, and then employed by pilots in their daily duties. Getting my maths up to scratch will be a challange for me, and I want to make sure that pay specific attention to those areas most likely to be needed.

Kindest regards

Damo.

[Send Clowns]

May I ask why integrate? You could save up to £20,000 for your hour building by going modular. There is no real benefit to an integrated course unless you wish to join BA as a first job, which is seriously unlikely, even for those much younger than you are.

You are unlikely to have 2000 hours in a year, certainly not legally for any paid flying! Maximum commercial flying in the UK is 900 hours per annum (that is a lot). If you are going to hour build rather than go straight for the airlines I suggest an instructor rating as soon as you finish your CPL/IR.

As for the maths although most FTOs don't test before the course the areas used are trigonometry, algebra (for manipulation of formulae), geometry (circles and triangles), unit conversion, fractions and standard index form. This is all to GCSE level so will be fresh to you, but should also be covered in the course too. Many schools offer maths classes as part of the course (we do so as required by a class). In your flying the most important will be mental arithmetic.

[Pilot Pete]

It might just be worth pointing out that Voodoobones appears to be based in the USA where some of the specific advice offered may not be as true as it is here (in the UK).

Damo. As Send Clowns says, it's maths to a basic level. I was 29 when I started flying and I had O level maths from many years earlier. I could not remember most of the rules and things as I had not used it for so long, but the maths required for the flying exams is simple enough and usually your groundschool text books take you through what is required in plenty of detailed explaination. As long as you have a basic understanding of maths it is quite easy to get the concepts and then it's just a case of practice, practice, practice. What I found is that because it was something I really wanted to do, the desire helped to make the maths (and all the other subjects) less of a chore and really something of great interest (even though the sheer volume wasn't overly pleasant!)

As for your training plan. Well, I would consider modular for the financial benefits, but search the subject here as there are pros and cons for both routes. Be sure to choose what suits you and your lifestyle and your learning ability best. You may find the flexibility of modular would actually benefit you (as well as the cost saving), but there again you may feel that just getting away from home for the year or so and concentrating solely on an integrated course may be what you need to be successful.

As for after qualification, do have a backup plan in case you don't get employed straight away (which is the most likely scenario). I spent 3 months applying to every man and his dog and got nowhere, before signing up for an instructor rating to increase my flying hours. As for your hour building Sending Clowns has correctly pointed out that it is going to take considerably longer than 12 months for you to get to 2000hrs. I would point out that 2000hrs is not a figure that would necessarily spring to mind as a target for building hours after qualification for me. Your options are limited as to where you can get these hours and have them paid for by someone else. Flying instructing is definitely one method and should certainly be considered. As for potential hours per year, I would have thought that 500hrs instructing was on the 'achieveable' end of the scale at a busy school, certainly some people will achieve more, but depending on how busy the school is, some may achieve many fewer. The other thing to bear in mind is the time of year you qualify. If you get your Commercial Licence issued late in the year or early the next year then you will be well placed to get an instructor rating in time for the spring recruitment that flying schools traditionally have to gain instructors for the summer. If you qualify late spring or sometime in the summer, it may take you several months to even find an FI job and then you are not going to build many hours until the good weather of the following year arrives....................

Hope that helps.

PP

[Send Clowns]

Pete I would be interested what you consider the pros of an integrated course. Even Oxford Blue couldn't manage to tell me any, and he was advocating the course from the point of view of an employee of a course provider. My employer only offers modular of course.

I didn't notice until after I posted that Voodoo was from stateside, but I would stand by my advice, except to change "...BA captain..." to "...AA Captain...", and explain that O-levels were to show competency for age 16, so he can judge that level of maths against his own education.

[Damo29]

Hi guys,

Thanks very much for taking the time to respond to my post.

I was looking at an integrated course because I had inferred (perhaps wrongly), that this was the route preferred by the large airlines, and was therefore the route most likely to lead to employment.

I didn't realise that the modular route was so much cheaper so I'll look at it again, although I have to admit that a year away from work appeals to me.

Currently I work in a relatively well paid / secure job, and there is scope for me to take a years career break. My hope was to do just that, and then return to my current job in time to start repaying HSBC!

Does the modular route take much longer? I guess given my age I need to get trained as quick as poss :)

Incidentally I applied for a GAPAN (Guild of Pilots & Navigators) PPL scholarship last week, and although I don't really think that I have a hope in hell of getting it, I suppose you never know. If I am successful then I would be looking at commencing my PPL this June (Haven't told the boss about that one yet)

Thanks very much for the info re maths, it was really helpful. Perhaps naively I'm determined to succeed at this and like you I'm hoping that my determination will get me through the maths.

Kindest regards

Damo

[Send Clowns]

You can still do the year away from work! There are a few companies (including most of the integrated course providers) who will even provide a full, modular course zero to frozen ATPL. I admit to having an interest, as I work for one of these. You can complete each module where you feel happiest, so if you decide after a certain stage that you don't like the way the FTO runs the next module, you can look elsewhere. That allows you to pick and choose as you are in the environment and learning more about flight training.

In fact with a modular course, which you can expect to take a little over a year full-time, you could save 6 weeks of that by completing your PPL, and perhaps a few more hours this spring/summer then starting your career break. Then you might be out for slightly less time than for an integrated course.

Remember even the latter often takes a little longer than planned.

Three airlines I know of say they only take integrated graduates on direct entry from training. I know one of them takes modular students, as a friend of mine was on course with two (FlyBE). The other two have never taken low-hour direct entry pilots anyway (BA and Emirates).

[Voodoobones]

Thanks for all the info. You are right that I am in the states. I live in the Pacific Northwest. I had mentioned earlier that I had 29 hours but looking at my log book I found that I forgot to add the last page so that brings me up to 30 hours! Woohoo. I know, big deal right? Well, to me it is.:D

Do you think a person could go from Private Pilot to ATP in three years? I have heard of people building hours by flying mail. I don't think you need an ATP to do that do you?