Will Qf Hire From Short List

[QANTASTIC]

Hi guys... Just wondering what the go is !! Has anybody got any info re new hire.. As the short list expires May 28 with mention of new hire mid year.. With all the 2 new rouets and extra flying you would think they would need people ! It seems strange for QF just to extend the waitlist for 2 months when they could have thrown everybody of if they felt they were never going to need new people in the next year or so!! Has anybody got any further goss,, news ,, Its on about 6 weeks away. If QF are going to recruit they would already know how many people they need and when !! post anything you might have heard around the rumer mill !!

[Q-Tee]

I heard today that there will be a national recruitment drive in July ... but again, just a rumour - but from a fairly decent source.

[AIRBUST]

My thoughts go out to you as it is such a effort presenting to the interviews, medicals and having to wait so long. Never give up keep applying and focus on next time.

I wonder how many have received the extention letters and how many received the expired letters and if the port has anything to do with the selection????

I am in Melbourne and I received an extention.
Maybe we could conduct a little survey on here to get some idea of where we are?

I believe that QF will need to taken on crew as more jets are heading our way and we do have things like the Commomwealth Games approaching. They are also adding some extra routes.

My fingers are certainly crossed.

Any body heard any galley gossip?

;)

[easternboy]

I have three friends that were on the shortlist. 1 received an extension until 28 May via e-mail but received a letter in the mail today advising that his application will now not be taken further. The other 2 were not extended and received a letter in the mail on Friday.

[GalleyHag]

I know of one person that was also not extended either, he received a letter on Friday from QF. I thought he said to me that he also received the e-mail extension to 28 May but not 100% sure.

[ozskipper]

Groan...

I hope I don't receive a letter in the mail then...... I got extended also (in Melbourne) and so far nothing else.... Hope it stays that way, apart from being offered a job that is!

[fourplay]

I am so sorry to hear what you people are going through regarding this on hold extension crap.
I cannot put myself in that situation ever again with QF and their subsidiaries.

What you people have been through is indeed a disgrace and very un Australian.
My heart truely goes out to you all.

Surely to God there is a higher plan in the scheme of things for those of you who have received a letter...something much better in store.
For those who are still on a string I know it is all consuming for you and has been for sometime, I really hope you get an answer soon to allow you to go forward with your lives.

thinking of you...Mr Mark

[AIRBUST]

Mr Mark,
Thank you for your warmth and feeling for us waitlisters. I guess when I asked the question earlier in this post if other had been expired I didn't believe I would be reading the reponses that I just have.

I am amazed that the company I so want to work for is leading us on. I seems that Sydney waitlisters are getting the expiry letters but it suprizes me that they have also received the extention letters.
What kind of games are they playing with us?

I so badly want to work and dedicate myself to Qantas and this kind of thing is taking the polish off.:confused:

Has anyone from Melbourne received an extension? I wonder how many there are of us? Has anyone received an expiry?
I am so curious to what our fate is and whats going on.
Keep posting!

:uhoh:

[ozskipper]

From what I've been able to work out it seems those who have been extended more than 3 times have been knocked out - although this is only from anecdotal evidence....

Most Melburnians have only been extended twice as we went through one of the last recruitment drives. Our first 6 months started as a lot of others were finishing their first.....

That seems to be the only pattern we can find - again, its subjective and only a few people really know I guess.....

As to whether we'll be employed or not - well we'll know in around 6 weeks or so....

[604chic]

I'm in MEL, have been extended three times, commenced interview process Nov 02.

I'll be changing my username to BitterandTwisted if I get a "your application has expired" email anytime.

:*

604chic

[ozflyboy]

Let's hope that QF are not going back on their word after sending out extensions until the 28th May????

Have contacted a few ppl who are on the shortlist (and all of us have received e-mail extensions) from all 3 ports, and none of us have received the dreaded letters...thank God!! SO sorry to those that this has happened to - how awful.

Here's hoping we all get thru yet ANOTHER interview in 6-8 weeks time and end up in ground schools shortly after that!! (Wishful thinking, I know, but it's all we've got after 14 months!!)

Keep the info coming guys.......

OZ xox

[Trollywally]

I did my initial interviews with QF back in May 02 for A MAM casual position based in Brisbane, like everyone else I recieved an extension until 31 Mar.. but have not yet heard anything else.... are there any other MAM people out there that have either got a further extension or a thanks but no thanks letter????:confused:

[yellow rocket]

1 received an extension until 28 May via e-mail but received a letter in the mail today advising that his application will now not be taken further.


Oh my gaaawwwd!!!!!!

[Mr Seatback 2]

I'm really surprised to hear that people have been getting knocked back from the last round of extensions! Wonder what criteria they're using to cull us applicants?

What I would REALLY like to know, apart from the obvious 'what the interview will be like?' question, is just how many shortlisters remain? Given that some went to MAM Short Haul over the last 6-12 months, and others are sadly no longer with us...just how many remain?

All other news most welcome!

[cloud nine]

I checked my post box today, and have yet to recieve any notification that my short list application has ceased. I know 5 others also on the short list, and we are all still on hold.

Easternboy.....your friends that are on the short list, are they EAA FA's?

[Trollywally]

Recieved my thanks but no thanks letter today.... basically saying that i have been on hold for 18 months and my application had now expired... back to square one

[cloud nine]

My theory is that the applicants that applied for MAM are now being deleted from the short list, due to the fact that there will be no external recruitment into shorthaul for quiet some time ( if ever). If applicants are to be used from the recruitment drive that has just been extended untill May 28th, its all pointing towards longhaul. Which will be great for some, but no so good for others.

[AIRBUST]

Cloud Nine, I like your theory. I am on the Melbourne list for Qantas recruitment not MAM. I marked on the application I was happy with longhaul flying. I was talking to a techie friend today and he was saying a few more big aircraft, I think 747 were on there way, as well as some 737. Maybe a qantas employee could confirm that. It so yes long haul will need crew. If they don't recruit off shore.
Keep posting and we will see some pattern I am sure.

[Mr Seatback 2]

Who knows what theory they're using - so long as we all stay on the waitlist, I'm happy...pending a permanent, full time position in the division of our choice!! LOL!

I do know QF have been shopping around for some extra aircraft (only a rumour)...but so far, nothing concrete as to their plans. The only thing in our favour is the increase in Intl flying to Shanghai and Mumbai later this year...as for Short Haul, with the new Regional Flying agreement (well...the signed off one) - who knows...

Fingers crossed we all get what we want...cause lord knows we've waited long enough for it!

[ozskipper]

Didn't apply for or through MAM. I'm in Melbourne too and marked that I preferred Long Haul.

I think I've been on the shortlist for a little over 12 months....

Its an absolute bummer for those who have been taken off the shortlist.

[Mr Seatback 2]

The MAM people were those who ticked "ANY" employment in their application on StaffCV. QF rang those people (as I understand) and asked if they'd be interested in joining MAM, as they needed their permission to hand the applications over to MAM since they're a separate company.

As for QF HR, never believe anything they say. The right hand rarely knows what the left hand is doing.

One of my close friends (who was put onto a shortlist before I was - he was part of a language speaker recruitment) rang HR and asked what was happening...they said "thanks but no thanks - you're finished" and then 1 week later received an extension to his shortlist!

So many things happen in QF HR that the person you speak to rarely knows all that is going on...hang in there people, without hope we have nothing! Except each other! :p

[easternboy]

Cloud nine

No my friends are not from eastern. They all went through the November 2002 recruitment drive. The one that received an extension to 28 May but than got the dreaded letter in the mail was an external applicant, the other two were internal applicants.

I agree I think it will all be long haul, according the FAAA short haul still has a surplus of some 200 cabin crew. God knows how they come to this conclusion when MAM crew are getting full rosters and crew are being asked to work on days off etc. Maybe if you add up all the crew on mat leave, leave without pay etc thats how they get the surplus.

The other rumour is as well that external applicants will only be offered fixed term or casual, as QF may only take short term leases on more aircraft etc and they want to see if they can get the number of overseas based crew up during the next EBA meaning they will than require less Australian based crew.

I know of 2 internals at eastern that have both been extended to 28 May, so QF must know there will be some permanent positions available to them, otherwise they would have just got rid of them with the others, you would think but than again it is QF afterall.

[Jetstar_Virgin]

geeze, i didn't realise there were so many problems with cabin crew recruitment. you guys have it worse than us pilots with some regard!

is it a bad reflection on an airline if they're the supposed spirit of a country when all they do is stuff around the occupants which keep it afloat?

[Mr Seatback 2]

I have heard about the Short Haul surplus, but with the last Short Haul to Long Haul transfer, the numbers that transferred across were 150 as opposed to the normal 50 within a financial year period.

Hpoefully the surplus won't be an issue once regional flying, etc. is all sorted out.

As far as contracts are concerned, the current Long Haul EBA states that contractors cannot be held on a contract for more than 12 months without being offered permanent employment or having their contract ended. The last time contractors were hired they were on 11 month contracts as I remember.

Most of the rumours doing the rounds right now are that we'd get 3-5 year contracts. Without a dispensation, or negotiations within the next EBA changing that, 3-5 year contracts can't happen.

News just released that Hong Kong Govt has reached an agreement with Australia for onward traffic from Hong Kong to Europe, in exchange for Dragonair to start flights to Australia in SYD, MEL & PER. Hopefully, this means more aircraft and more flights for QF - meaning employment for one and all!

SO...fingers well and truly crossed that all works out for us and others waiting patiently on the shortlist.

[GalleyHag]

News just in Qantas to add Hong Kong to their London, Mumbai, Joburg, Singapore and Shanghai wish list of overseas cabin crew bases LOL. Thought I would get in before Mr/Mrs Dobber predicts all the doom and gloom.

[Q-Tee]

Will QF hire from the current shortlist? It sounds like no

In writing, from a management Q&A regarding crew :-

Q:Is there any recruitment planned?

A:It is anticipated at this stage that recruitment for a Shortlist will commence in mid 2004


Sounds like they are ready to create a new Shortlist, not actually employ new crew.

[Mr Seatback 2]

Never say never Q-Tee...

The rumour that recruitment will occur again for a shortlist (new or otherwise) is not a new one...could it be, thinking on a positive note, that the new 'shortlist' is being recruited to replace, for example, the CURRENT shortlist?

Wishful thinking I know...but it's always better to try and find the good in a situation. Otherwise, we'd all be basket cases and on medication by now with the run around we've received from this shortlist!

BTW, Q-Tee and others - did you notice in that Q&A that the new term for 'down-sizing' is now 'right-sizing'...I mean, really...who came up with that one? LOL!

[QANTASTIC]

I myself like Mr seatback 2 is trying to be positive. I also have heard today the anouncment re the HKG to Lon direct with QF . I belive this will be used with the extra slots that QF purchased this year. I have heard again nothing concreat that they have already received the allowed numbers of permanent positions. They thought that they would have got a biger number for approval. Since they didnt they have had to reduce the short list further as they know after this there would not be any further permanent positions in the near future. I do belive we have got 6 weeks left before we get advised anything further. A friend advised me that they must know when the next schools are starting that is why they only extended the short list to 28 May. They could have easliy done it for anither 6 months since I have only been on the short list for 11 months now and max i think is 18 months..special from reading the threads. I do however feel for the short listers that are no longer with us. Its sad that you give it all, spend the money wait for about 4 months before you even know if you have been succesfull to be on the short list. I do however belive if its somthing you do want to do be positive and apply again and again. The rumer is that there eill be a further recruitmant drive in jun-jul some time to get a new short list happening. It does make me wonder how many people are still left on the short list. I am in Mel and know of about 12 of us who are still on the short list. All based in Mel and are all internal QF staff.. Is there a patter there?? I do see however from the threads that a lot of SYD based staff have been knocked back. I think this might be becouse they have been given ther go ahead to expand the L/H base in Mel. Extra flying and trip also to Lon. Who else know of others on the short list and were are they based and are they QF internal staff of external staff ... Lets keep us all informed and again to those not on the list try again. YOU CAN ONLY GET SOMEWERE IF YOU KEEP TRYING !!

[easternboy]

REALLY, I'm sure you all feel soooo bad for the people that have been thrown off the short list, as long as it's not you right?

I tend to agree with Q-Tee its only a matter of time, but by all means be as positive as you like but dont come on pprune complaining after you have received the dreaded letter!!

[QF skywalker]

easternboy ,

The members of this cabin crew forum who are on the shortlist are very "caring" people and I am CERTAIN that they are genuine in their dissapointment of seeing others being removed from the waitlist.

In case you don't know "Caring" is one of the qualities listed as part of having the Qantas spirit and these people would certainly have not been chosen as potential employees if they were not genuine caring people.

Thank-you.

[Mr Seatback 2]

Who are you referring to easternboy? I don't believe anyone here has posted a 'phew, thank god it's not me' post on this thread...but in any event who can blame them? You're still on there, but your friends aren't - right?

Quit with the 'you guys don't care' routine easternboy - I'm a veteran of 11 FA interviews over the years, of which I've been through the whole medical routine only to be told later 'thanks but no thanks'.

No one more than me knows what it's like to go through the whole process, wait for what seems an eternity only to be told 'thanks but, you know, not right now..." - after spending hundreds of dollars on a multitude of tests...of which you receive none back!

I genuinely feel for those who were eliminated - but the sooner you make the choice to either a) continue applying or b) choose another industry, the better. Waiting for sympathy won't get you the job, nor will it make you a better applicant.

You either be positive, or be eliminated. Very simple.

And if you agree with Q-Tee that the whole world will end, and that's there's no hope for us on the shortlist, etc...then I feel sorry for you. For without hope, you have no direction.

And if that's what a job application for an airline does to you - what would a major disaster do instead?

I don't normally lose my temper, but pull your head in easternboy. You're talking to someone - and indeed to many other people on this board - with an inordinate amount of time served in this industry and in interviews. Don't go there with the whole 'you don't know me or my friends' routine.

[Flying_Sarah747]

Well contrary to some people's beliefs ;) Im truely sorry to those of you who have been kicked off the QF shortlist. It really does suck what QF are doing to everybody. I received the e-mail about the mid 2004 recruitment thing, but it's not all that positive. I mean it said there MAY be recruitment, not will be, so it just seems like more games to me.

Just to throw a spanner in the works, maybe QF doesnt need crew because of the training courses they were doing through Adecco, the CHEAP LABOUR company who hire Thai's and New Zelanders. I'm afraid after hearing that I lost a lot of respect for QF. As somebody else said, very un Australian.

But if they do recruit, I wonder if it'll be long or short haul? If it's long haul and they offer me a position I don't know what I'll do. I love it here at BA, but London isn't home, but then again, are QF as good to work for as BA are? All my friends at BA would have me believe they're not, but I'm sure their vision is slightly clouded. What does everyone else think?? BA or QF?

[ozflyboy]

How RUDE Easternboy!

Sorry, but our words of sympathy ARE genuine, mate. Most of us posting here have been doing so and supporting each other throughout this whole thing.....so yes, we feel for those who are taken off the shorlist at this late stage.....how awful after all this time!

I'd be very careful jumping on this particular thread and posting random messages.

On a lighter note, the clock is ticking once again folks, we're finally gonna know one way or another soon....fingers crossed for you all - yes ALL of u.....

:cool:

[cloud nine]

That was very out of line to say that we do not care about those that have been shafted from the wait list. If it has ever hapened to you, you would understand how dissapointing it really is.

Most pruner's are very supportive to each other, and thats how it should be.

[Q-Tee]

Mr Seatback2

Please dont take a swipe at me for providing information, as delivered to me. I am not taking 'the whole world is ending' line, just trying to pass on what I have been told and read. That is the second time that you have swiped at me for providing you guys with information. Either you are thick or you do not read my posts .... your comment The rumour that recruitment will occur again for a shortlist shows that you cannot read. It is not a rumour. As stated by management - it is 'anticipated' which means it is planned, ie not a rumour. Recruiters have already been told to be prepared to be called.

The fact is, if new training schools were going to happen in 6 weeks time, they would already be planned within learning and development. The time it takes to remove trainers from flying, book classrooms for that length of time, EP's etc is huge. Learning and Development have no plans for new schools, bar from the announced NZ based crew.

In future I will not post any further information regarding recruitment, as it would seem you will swipe out at anyone who posts anything other than what you would like to hear.

Good luck, but if your temper is that short - QF's crew and customers will eat you alive mate.

[QANTASTIC]

I am sorry if I sounded smug easternboy but I mayself have gone throught the process a couple of times and yes I am happy I am on the short list but if it so happens that we will be all thrown of you cant be upset with the world. If you realy want it you will apply again and again. I know its fustrating but thats how it is and we dont have any control. Only time will tell what will happen but If there isnt going to be further new class I am not sure why they dont send everybody a letter and be done with it. There must be a reason for QFs HR madness!!
Keep smiling all and remember be positive !!

[Mr Seatback 2]

Oh Q-tee, temper temper....

Firstly, I apologise if you felt offended by my post. The vast majority wasn't aimed at you, but some of it was related to your previous post.

When I read your post originally, it read as a very negative post (to me). On second viewing, it is not as negative as I first remember, but still not the best news to read when so much good news has been rumoured on the same thread.

Anyway, sorry for any hurt Q-T. Feel the love.

However, in response to your post, let me state the following:

1) By anticipated, do you mean the same 'anticipated' that was trumpeted 18 months ago when this recruitment process began? Qantas just loves the word 'anticipated'..

Anticipated, by it's very meaning (just like the word 'planned') means exactly that - is it concrete? No. Is it open to change, just like our anticipated recruitment 18 months ago - you know, right before SARS and Iraq started...??

2) I have never had anything against people such as yourself posting information - however disheartening - on this forum. Facts are facts and I've nothing against you, or anyone else, reporting them. In fact, without them, what is this board worth? Well, provided the facts can be substantiated like yours (I also read the same info minutes later on the Q&A Forum).

But if you re-read your post (as quickly as I did originally), it would be quite easy for it to come across as negative. Factual - but negative. There wasn't the slightest hint of a positive spin on any level! And trust me, for people who have been left hanging as long the shortlisters have, positive news, even negative news with a positive spin, is better than perceived doom and gloom!

I just try to look for the positive in everything I read, and I try my best to turn around those posts with 'doom and gloom' (however small) for the sake of others - not myself. Far too hardened to take it personally.

3) My temper is not normally that short - but you have to understand, for someone like myself who has been in this industry for many years now, it is insulting for someone (not yourself I might add) to insinuate that I - and indeed others like yourself - don't appreciate what it's like to be eliminated after enduring such a long process and wait time.

I flew off the handle and it's only reserved for those circumstances that deserve it.

4) As far as training schools are concerned, I am aware there are none forecast for this financial year - that's been stated repeatedly on Galley Gossip. So, effectively, we can't expect any real movement to occur prior to July 1 - unless, of course, something else happens...oh the change!

Remembering, of course, QF now have instant access to London via Hong Kong - something Dixon is really keen to take up ASAP from what I've read in the papers and online today.

In closing, I hope you accept my apology and that you enter into the spirit of PPRUNE like we all do.

[easternboy]

OK OK my post was a little harsh and I apologise.

Mr Seatback 2

You have issues, you come across so bitter and twisted and pleeease enough about how long you have been in the industry for, you are exactly the same as thousands of others in the Australian aviation industry.

As for Q-Tee he/she was just posting information directly from Qantas word for word. You cant blame Q-Tee for not putting a postive spin on the post. Its because of people like you that more and more QF people are choosing not to post on pprune (and it seems all these people are Impulse). Just because its not what you want to hear dont take it out on them.

Are you sure QF is the airline you really want to work for? From your posts it seems like you have so much cotempt for the airline, like it was QF's fault that SARS happened and not to mention the on-going war.

[Mr Seatback 2]

Oh easternboy

Don't mistake directness for being bitter or twisted. Just my way - don't take offence!

I already apologised for to Q-Tee for taking her post out of context. Kudos for jumping to her defence, but since I've apologised, what's the problem?

With respect to my length of service in the Australian aviation industry, I have no illusions that I am not alone in this regard - on the contrary in fact! Your post did, however, take a contemptuous tone against all of us in this thread who stated how happy we were to stay on the list. Obviously, hindsight on your part (just like mine) has provided an apology for our posts.

I like how I (allegedly, and single-handedly!) managed to scare away QF people because of news I don't like. I speak my mind and question info where, and historically at least, it makes little if any sense. Oh, and as for the dig at
(and it seems all these people are Impulse)
...I'll let others decide for themselves on that one. Found it quite funny actually.

I've never blamed QF for SARS or Iraq. Don't be silly easternboy. The point I was trying to make (which I thought then, as now, was clear) was that 'anticipated', by it's very definition, does not solidify anything! Just like the recruitment 18 months ago was intended to fulfil 'anticipated' crewing needs THEN, external influences meant that we have sat on the list for 18 months thus far - with ANTICIPATED needs possibly determining future recruitment mid this year.

From here on, I'd like to suggest to all (and this goes for me also - because my passion can sometimes cloud my judgement - particularly after a couple of sav blancs) the following:

We quit taking this whole thing so seriously and let what happens, happens.

Feel the love guys.

[ditzyboy]

What is wrong with Impulse people, Sweetie?

[I.B. Pilot]

What does the term "short listed" mean? Could someone please educate me. I have never heard the expression before.

Thanks

[Mr Seatback 2]

It's a way of saying 'you're ALMOST hired...'

[overhere]

You're on a waitlist basically for future vacancies but there is no guarentee of employment.

For those who have eventually missed out, if you're still interested in the QF Group keep an eye on Eastern, Sunstate, Impulse/Jetstar, Airlink, Jetconnect, Australian and the contract companies MAM and Adecco who all recruit for the group fairly regurally.

[cloud nine]

With risk of starting an all out squabble with you Easternboy, I must say a few words about Mr Seatback.

Bitter and Twisted are 2 words that are so far from the truth to describe Mr Seatback. For those that do not know Mr Seatback personally, let me tell you that he is professional, motivated, great at his job, and is the first to offer information/ help to friends or fellow Ppruners in regards to any Avaitaion issues that he is acquainted with.

I just can't see how that fits the "B & T image" at all???:confused:

I say, LOVE YA WORK Mr seatback! :)

[SydGirl]

This is my definition of what a shortlist is..

We have processed your application and now have you on hold for a position in a port/base or even company for which you may not have applied, for an indeterminate amount of time. We might call you, we might not. However don't call us. We will only give you updates when your shortlist expires, but then again we might not.

Look guys, being on the shortlist this time round definitely sucked. Be happy and grateful that at least you are there! There are still so many people that missed out, and others still that didn't have the opportunity to apply. Movement in QF is good for everyone, those at S/H, L/H and regionals - everyone wants recruitment to start again.

Good luck!
SG
:D

[yellow rocket]

*getting out guitar and putting on my poncho*

"...we shall not, we shall not be moved
we shall not, we shall not be moved,
just like a tree, standing by the waterside,
we shall not be moved."

[QANTASTIC]

Hi guys.. I have read some memos today sent to me via email and have seen that QF is planning a new recruitmnet drive to replenish the nearly non-existance of the short list. I think once we have been removed by the end of 28may ( 5 1/2 weeks to go whos counting??)there will be nobody on the short list. I think Q-tee has already mentioned this. Also they did mention that they have increased prductivity in the crewing areas meaning crew are better used. There was no mention that of any new schools soon except that they will not be transfering any short to long crew for a while from the sounds of it. They are wanting a hire number of casuels and the crewing level at this stage is good with some 100 crew to return from june to september that took leave without pay. (sorry if this dosent make to much sense i am rushing to post this.) So as i have spoken to my other friends who are on the short list they all seem positive even though they have found this out. They keep saying that the extension was there for a reason otherwise we all good have got the thanks but no thanks letter.. Only time will tell ... Just reading from the threads I am still not able to work out how many people could be on the short list. Mr Seat back 2 have you got any idea from your neck of the woods.. It would be interesting to know !! Any ideas anybody ??? lets all have a great day!!

[cloud nine]

Thanks for your post Qantastic, it all sounds promising ( fingers crossed)

I heard the waitlist had 200 or 300 on it, but that was when we first got notifcation that we had been successful. ( well kinda :suspect: )

5 and a half weeks? It's always the final leg that seems to take the longest :ugh:

[Mr Seatback 2]

Well...my info is as follows

1) Any recruitment into Long Haul will NOT be for casuals at this stage. Operationally, QF finds it really difficult to roster/assign work to casuals (apparently)...they're not getting the efficiencies they'd hoped for, in the same way as they do from the MAM Casuals (for obvious reasons, given the vast differences in their flying).

Long Haul only have a small number of casuals. Don't know if there's a limit on them, like the offshore crew. With the Long Haul EBA up at the end of year, who knows what else will change!

That's as of last week. Stay tuned for any changes of heart from Geoff and co!

2) Even with those returning from Leave Without Pay, a few reliable sources tell me that QF are searching for extra aircraft to start services SYD-Shanghai (PVG is the code from memory)-LHR. Although they now have the ability to go via HKG, a lot of work was put in by QF Mgmt to do PVG-LHR before the announcement. Well, for $47m you'd HOPE they'd use the extra LHR slots they bought before they're taken away from QF (because if QF don't use them, they lose em...)!

Which one they go with - either PVG or HKG - remains to be seen!

All the 747's should be back online by this September, or thereabouts, as they finish refurb (give or take a couple going through Skybed refurbishment)...that could of course, like all things, change.

3) I don't think Short Haul will be performing any recruitment for a wee while - except for more MAM casuals perhaps. Think it may all be Long Haul, and that the planned recruitment for mid this year is to top-up the current shortlist. As has been said previously, the numbers would have decreased markedly. Fingers crossed they don't do anymore culling of the list between now and end of May!

Have read in a magazine today that the next A330-300 is now due in November, with the others to follow. That would coincide with a lot of movement around the network, such as SYD-BOM flights, SYD-PVG and who knows what else! As more 767's go into Domestic (and the 1 other 767 into Australian), that means bigger aircraft requiring - dare I say - more crew.

Don't hold me to this info guys - change is in the wind!

Fingers crossed we all see each other in training schools later this year!

PS. Don't forget guys - Jetstar is recruiting like mad and will be for the remainder of the year.

[GalleyHag]

I also read the Q & A from QF that some are referring to and I couldnt find anything positive for current shortlisters. Sure they talk about recruitment for the shortlist mid year, casuals for short haul and the fact that casuals dont work well within long haul operations, but there is no mention of PERMANENT employment in either division nor anticipated employment in the near future. Dixon has made it clear PERMANENT is a thing of the past, and as there is no provision in the long haul EBA for 3-5 contracts I would expect if I were guys that if you are offered anything it would be fixed term 12 months. This gives QF a lot of flexability in terms of shedding Australian based crew if they get what they want in terms of increasing the overseas based crew in the next EBA.

However, QF require more aircraft, are starting new routes etc therefore you would think they will require more crew but if I were you guys dont expect permanent employment otherwise you will only be disappointed. The only permanent positions if any will go to internals I think. Hope for fixed term and anything better than that is a bonus.

The Q & A was wonderfully written but I didnt find much in that was positive at all, sorry. Maybe I'm just not looking at it from a shortlist point of view.

Easternboy

I cant even think of words to say to you, which is quite a shock for me!!

[Mr Seatback 2]

At least the ability exists for contractors to be offered permanent employment. But like you said Galleyhag, with the impending EBA and offshore crew matters - not entirely positive. Having said that though, never say never!

QF will be undergoing a great deal of change over the next 2 years with additional aircraft, new routes, etc. Whilst nothing overtly positive is in the Q&A, there isn't anything overtly negative either.

I'm not expecting permanent employment - all in all, I've expected contract work (12 mths) for some time. Anything permanent is a bonus! When was the last time QF recruited full time crew off the street? Was it about 4 years ago??

Keep the faith guys - like cloud nine says, it's the last leg that's always the longest!

[GalleyHag]

QF took something like 200+ people off the shortlist in early 2002 for permanent positions into short haul. From memory over at long haul people off 12 month fixed term contracts were called and offered permanent around the same time but not sure of numbers but some were without work for around 3 months.

For sure never say never and with everything happening at the very least you would think they would offer a 12 month fixed term contract. However I just wanted to make people aware that are on the shortlist that permanent positions are highly unlikely.

As you say Mr Seatback QF is undergoing major changes to the way we operate, therefore permanent positions for new entrants maybe a thing of the past but that doesnt mean they still may not be offered. I think QF like the try before you buy motto.

[Mr Seatback 2]

With the 200+ people going permanent in Short Haul - are you sure they were all from the Short list? Memory is foggy on my part, but I seem to recall a number of casuals (when QF had their own) and contractors all going permanent around the same time...

Not doubting your info, just don't recall an influx of people from one list.

On everything else, couldn't agree more with everything else you've posted.

[GalleyHag]

Now that you mention it, I dont think they were all off the short list. There were fixed term crew and mam casuals converted to permanent with the balance off the short list. I would say though that at the very least 100 were off the short list.

[Mr Seatback 2]

I don't think MAM casuals existed back then. Maybe they did - the old grey matter not what it used to be...I do remember (cause one of my best friends used to be one) that QF had their own casuals. They didn't have hundreds or anything (I think about 30-odd) and they, along with a number of contractors, all of a sudden became permanent.

100 odd from the shortlist sounds about right. I remember because a few of my colleagues were on the shortlist from 2001 - and some were extended, whilst others weren't. Those that were extended were eventually offered positions in either Long Haul or Short Haul.

So, if history repeats itself, maybe...just maybe...the future could be looking bright!

[cloud nine]

Now this is the time where one wishes they had not started their flying career. If I was not permanent Sydney based FA, I would personally be happy with any thing that QF were to offer me. However if fixed term is offered, I would have to do some very heavy thinking in regards to accepting it or not. Not sure if I could just throw caution to the wind and give up my perm flying job, which I do enjoy. I have been to many interviews, even as an experianced FA, and I know how hard it is to get through. Its definatley not something that you want to throw away with out good reason too.

What are others thoughts on this that are also waiting to hear?

[ozskipper]

Hmm.... its a difficult one....

I have a permanent, well paid and relatively senior position in the public service, so it would be an extremely difficult decision to make...

I'd probably still take it and see what pans out.... The old motto of high risk, high return.... (then again I could flat on my @rse)....

I'd prefer a contract a little longer than 1yr. 2 - 3 years would be much better....

Have to wait and see.....

[Mr Seatback 2]

What a great question Cloudy! This will get some debate flowing!

Originally, when this whole recruitment thing started about 18 odd months ago, I was not going to accept anything less than full time, permanent employment.

Now, with hindsight, and having the appreciation of an extra year and a bit under my belt, I'd be happy to take a contract position SOLELY for the purpose of doing long haul flying.

Is it a gamble, given that I'm already flying full time for an airline now? Yes - a bloody big one. But it's one I'm prepared to make, given my desire to branch into Long Haul (I much prefer long flights over short hops), and that even with a full time flying job, anything can happen that might stop me flying (eg. illness).

So - for me, I say live life to the full, and enjoy each day as it comes!

And if the contract thing results in no further employment for me - then maybe it's a sign for me to start afresh somewhere else?! Scary? Certainly - but I've been through tougher challenges (as I'm sure we all have). Change can be a good thing if you make it work for you!

Interesting to hear what others might think. As for whether or not the contract periods could be longer than 12 months (given the long haul EBA negotiations later this year), who knows. Between that and offshore labour, bit like being caught between a rock and a hard place.

[yellow rocket]

Ok, so if permanent is not an option, and say they offer fixed term...then I would want QF to disclose what the process is for selecting expiring fixed-termers to be made permanent.

I would not accept casual. I would be most unlikely to accept fixed term. Why?

Would you trust a 'rollover possibility' to an HR department that recruited you for jobs that don't seem to exist and then flicks you off a shortlist as it feels like it?

Glad I've got options.

[tea_coffee_me?]

Thankfully, easternboy, not all Easternboys have the attitude towards things as you do! Love to you all........ (except maybe EB...just kidding!)

[ozflyboy]

Well......

What a difficult call - I really don't know what I (hopefully it is a WILL) do.....same as Mr Seatback.....18 months ago I would have ONLY accepted permanent full-time, however, now after waiting for so long and wanting to give the long-haul thing a go, I just MAY take a contract....although, do u give up another well paid full time job??

Cant wait till we all get together - cause we r going to guys - in training!!

U r SOOO right - the last part is the longest....geeeee!!!!

Oz;)

[QANTASTIC]

I am not sure being an internal staff member that we do have a choice. Last I spoke to HR they advised that if you are a QF internal you can only be given a full time positions. If they offer fixed term 12 months etc they are only available to external new hire as we already work for the company they cant offer anything else. If I did have a choice I think life is to short to and take things when they come. Ok so its not full time but with QF everything starts if as a contract and it generally always becomes permenant some how. I know this as its happend to so many areas . You would be silly if you dont take it, that is the fixted term contracts. OZFLYBOY and MR SEAT BACK 2 how long have you guys been on the short list??? Have you been over 18 months ?? The reason i ask is that a couple of friends of friends received a letter from QF saying thanks but no thanks . They were on the short list 18 months. If you guys have been on it for that period or longer i would say its looking good becasue they could have say BY BY !! Anyone else internal(QF) or external on the short list more then 18 months?? Or do you know of anybody .. It would be interesting to get an idea of who is the longest torcherd person!! Ciao for now and yes Its the hardest whai this last bit. I do however hope and truly belive that we will all meet one day and have a big group HUG and many drinks in celabration. Like i said they being QF could have said TA TA to all of us if they had Noooooo intention of doing anything. Keep the post flowing !! Aloha for now !!

[Mr Seatback 2]

Qantastic,

I've just gone thru my emails (since this whole application began) and since I applied, the process has taken 17 months approx.

From the moment I was advised I was on the shortlist (4th Feb 2003), it is 14 months (with the interview, medical, etc. spanning an additional 3 months).

As far as being an internal staff member, what does that include? Does it include those strictly employed within Qantas, or more broadly speaking, those who work for subsidiaries as well (eg. Eastern, etc)? Not that it worries me, but as I work for a subsidiary, I'd be curious as to how far the internal aspect (from HR's point of view) extends, given that subsidiary staff earn profit shares, staff travel benefits, etc. just like mainline staff (and that includes ground staff, etc).

All the other people that I work with at the Pulse have been extended (to my knowledge), and all are of the same 'vintage' as me on the shortlist.

I'm really surprised, even now, that QF culled the list further. There doesn't seem to be any real method applied in who stays and who goes - but then again, has there ever been a clear, black and white method? :}

[Bodum]

In referance to the post made by Qantastic.

If a Qantas staff member applies internally for an advertised internal "Blue notice" position then the full time to full time conversion would apply. Qantas cannot legally offer casual or fixed term contracts via a blue notice..This also applies to subsidiary staff who ARE eligible to apply for "Blue noticed" positions, however subsidiary staff are forced to resign, and have to start all over again with the company, but it would still be on a permanent basis.

However... If a Qantas/subsidiary staff member applies via the external system,(staff cv) ie no blue notice, then that employee is treated as an external applicant and may be offered any type of employment.

Hope this helps :O

[Mr Seatback 2]

Aaah - that makes sense...

Presumeably, however, if you transferred over to Long Haul from a Ground Position (for example) via a Blue Notice, you would NOT have your years of service transferred across for the purposes of seniority, etc?

Career Progression (if memory serves), along with Divisional Transfers (to or from Short and Long Haul) are the only methods where this occurs, as I recall.

Correct me at will people - just idle curiosity on my part!

[QANTASTIC]

Morning... To a wet day here in Melbourne !!
Just wanted to let you all know that I have been told that my friend who flys short haul who applied for the position for the Interview officers later last year received a call from QF HIRE to start training for the positions as they will be conducting a recruitmant drive in the next bid period in ..I think starting in Jun/jul.. Well I guess that is now official and not rumour any more !!
I wonder how this will effect us short listers. As I said before there is not many of us left on there.I have been told that it is GOING TO HAPPEN by many crew as they are drafting SO MANY people and spending a a lot of money on overtime !! FINGERS CROSSED AS I AM SURE IT WILL BE SOOOOOON. ANY OTHER GOSS???

[Mr Seatback 2]

I guess the only thing to do now is just wait...patiently, ever so patiently, wait...

:ok:

[ozflyboy]

Hey Qantastic....

Sorry it has taken me so long....been away....

I am exactly the same as Mr SB2 - 14 months since shortlisting notice and 17 months since the whole process began.

Mr SB2 - did u go thru the SYD recruitment as well??

I just soo hope that they don't ditch us for NEW shortlisters....surely not.....then again.....

Fingers, toes, EVERYTHING that can be crossed will be team!

Oz xox

[cloud nine]

I had a paxing Longhaul FA on one of my flights today, and he advised me that QF are holding ground schools in July 04.

Hmmmm......interesting.......stay tuned ;)

[QANTASTIC]

Thanks for that info cloud nine !!
As I said before the email that we received saying "we may be doing new hire in Mid year" I am sure they already know how many people they need and as always mentioned in the GALLY GOSSIP they advised new hire can only occuer in fiancial year 2004-2005 not before as its not in the busget !! I know from talking to CSM that they said becouase of all the drafting of crew special crew that come back on the midnight horror service get asked to do a sydney return.. this has happend sooo many times that thisd is a signe more staff are required !! We will be there soon guys ...By the way doesent seem like anybody had been on the actual waitlist for more then 18 months ?? mm interesting..

[Mr Seatback 2]

Hey ozflyboy - yes, I was at the SYD recruitment. Small world this shortlist thing!

It's only April...this last leg of the shortlist is going to be the hardest I think!

[cloud nine]

Just over a month to go. Curious to know if they will wait till May 28th to call us, or if it will happen sooner.

Speaking to previous people on the short lists, they had to make their decision straight away on the phone in regards to accepting employment. So be prepared to accept or decline straight away when they offer fixed term, contract, in what ever base! If you ask for time to think about what is offered, you may be told that you are not guarenteed another call. Sadley we are just a number at this stage.

However, we have had well over a year to think about it.:}

I'm still sitting on the fence in regards to accepting/declining fixed term. have heard some pretty hair raising stories about people not being offered permanent jobs, or extensions on contracts.

What to do, what to do:confused: :confused:

[GalleyHag]

Galley Gossip dated 23/4/04 states that positions WILL be available mid year (which everyone was aware of) but at this stage they are unsure if permanent full-time positions will be available. I think ALL positions from the short list will be LH as QF are only looking to employ more casuals in SH and I'm sure they will just do another MAM recruitment for those positions. Good luck everyone I hope you all find out soon the state of your lives and careers. I hope a few of you are prepared for the move to Perth!!

[cloud nine]

Hmmm, permanent LH in Perth, sounds great. :)

Fixed term, with no staff travel to enable getting home cheaply to visit family and friends is a concern.:(

Love flying, but also love family and friends.:)

[jb_flyer]

I have only just registered here, and am relativley new to the QF recruitment saga, as it seems to be a very long one for all those involved.

The situation as I seem to have peiced it together, is that some time ago (perhaps 18 months) QF had a recruitment drive. I am assuming this consisted of advertisements etc... and people applied, then were interviewed etc. Those successful were then put onto a "shortlist" and told they would be hired next.

That was 18 months ago... with not many communication. Now there are rumours (albeit verry good ones) that QF will be hiring mid year, in the 2004-2005 FY, and all you shortlisted candidates are hoping to be top of the list. (and of course, you probably should be)

Now I submitted an original application via StaffCV on Jan 2004, then after I got all the other bits of paper (like renewed my passport, and got my RSA) and after a job change, have resubmitted 2 times now.

I have not heard anything back whatsoever. However, after seeing these posts, I take it this is not an unusual thing.

My question is that is anybody else here not on the shortlist, but is in my position in limbo, ie submitted an application but no response yet. I am trying to work out if it is just me, or if there are others in my boat.

My preference is for Short Haul flying, but only from a family perspective... because I will gladly fly Long Haul! (In fact, my real preference is Long Haul, but its simply my family choice... but I have lived away before... )

I am from Perth, so based out of PER would be ideal. I oculd relocate if it were necessary...

JB

If anyone would like to contact me, you shoudl be able to email me...

[overhere]

hey

qf will only respond to your staffcv application when they are running a recruitment drive, which they haven't since December 2002.

cheers

[Q-Tee]

Marsha,Marsha,Marsha !!!!

They need ' new blood' in LongHaul, forgive me if I take that a bit personally .... I happen to be LongHaul, and believe most of us are pretty damn good .... even if we are old blood :)

Oh, and ten years of ground work with QF ??? I wouldnt really consider you 'new blood' ... :p


Sorry, I have to go and manually retract my claws ;) (the automated retraction system was designed by Boeing, and therefore is U/S !!!!)

[OZcabincrew]

Hi Guys!!!

Gosh, i haven't been on this site for a long time! I was one of the 10 new SH casuals to start flying online the 8th of April based out of Perth and it is great, the people are all fantastic!

Just a question, i don't know if QF would do this so correct me if i'm wrong. This is to everyone on the shortlist, if you were to receive a call with the offer of a casual long haul position based out of Perth say through Adecco (if that's who it is done through?) would you take it? I don't know if QF would offer a casual position to shortlisters if it required them to move interstate? If someone has the answer to this that would be great. and does anyone know if it is correct about the Perth LH people transferring soon back to the east coast, the positions need to be filled, would they be casual or permanent?

OZ

[QANTASTIC]

Hi ozcabincrew..

I have been told that in the next bid period that they have actioned transfers from Perth to Melbourne and Perth to Sydney and Melbounre to Sydney and Sydney to Melbourne.
I am not sure if they can offer casuel positions in long haul. I dont think this is an option. This is only available via mam but only at short haul I am also under the understanding that Adecco are only via New Zealand and Thailand Long Haul not in Australia. I could be wrong however !! As i have mentioned before I have been also advised that in July they are going to be starting new schools for long haul , I belive this is for people on the shortlist as a friend of mine called QF HR as she is on short haul and is placed on the transfer list from short to long haul and advised they will not action any further transfers to the end of the year. !! So i can only belive that they might start taking new poeple !!
FINGERS CROSSED and not long to go !! 4 and half weeks to go!!
Any furhte infor Mr seatback 2 Or Q-tee??

[Bodum]

Mr Seatback 2.. You are correct indeed.

If a qantas employee transfers from a ground based position into a flying position, years of service, start date, etc remain and a "flying seniority start date" is created along with a "seniority number" If this staff member starts with external applicants for example, regardles of age, this person would be considered "senior" to their fellow Groundschoolers in regards to seniority as they were already within the company. This does not apply for a subsidiary employee applying via blue notice as they are forced to resign and given new start date etc.

Divisional Transfers, ie: Regional/Short/Long. Nothing changes..years of service, seniority, sick leave, holidays etc, remains.

Again hope this all helps. Good luck all. :O

[QANTASTIC]

Thnaks for the info Bodum..
Has anybody else heard anything around RE new ground schools starting this Jul/Aug?? My friend who flys short haul is undergoing training as a facilitator. She applied for this last year.. There must be somthing happening behind closed doors.. THE SUSPENSE is KILLING ME !! I assume no body else received a letter from QF saying thanks but no thanks !! chat soon??

[ozskipper]

Hmm....

Now I've heard a lot of rumours over the last 17 months or so....

I have been reasonably reliably informed that yes, ground schools new financial year, but expect to undergo another interview, medical and security check.

Interesting times ahead......

[Mr Seatback 2]

Ozskipper

Heard the same as you only the other day. Again, a reliable source.

Of course, anything could happen.

It's almost like a News Bulletin here, isn't it? ..."we'll have more news on that story as details come to hand..."

[cloud nine]

Another medical? Thats a bit steep, more dollars!

The hearing test could be a concern for those that have been flying on Dash 8's for a few years :}

[ozskipper]

lol @ MSB2

I don't mind having more checks Cloud 9 - I mean my preference would just give me a job, but appreciate its been awhile (tongue definately in cheek here) so not opposed and besides if the checks happen in the next financial year I can claim them on tax anyway.....

[GalleyHag]

I have heard that Security will need to be done again as some aspects of the security clearance have changed since you guys went through in 2002, there is also a time limit from application to employment if a medical is required again and from memory I think this is 12 months.

Unfortunately, instead of waiting for a start date it may mean waiting to hear when your next interview is and than onto medical/security again. But I'm sure it will be all cool for you guys fingers crossed.

[peanut pusher]

Both contracts and casuals positions will be offered around June & July. Straight from the horses mouth today.
Hope it helps

[TSSOV]

I've never been through any kind of airline interiew cattle call process.

You hear about those 'preperation courses'... are they good? I know its far from a garuntee... but, surely applicants who have not been "prepared" are sucsessful?

Airlines like to create 'profiles' that they like to fill when taking applications further, true? Can anyone (make an informed) guess as to what QF will be looking for this time? 2nd language speakers? Certain age range? x years experience in this or that? Men? Women? Very outgoing/outgoing/assertive personalities? Soft voices? Not too camp? These might sounds obscure... i just wanted to know your thoughts... even if youre not "in the know". Want to get more of an idea than what has been plastered in the QF FA employment page of their website for the past.. i don't know how long...
(eg high standards of grooming and presentation... experience... age, height, Snr 1st aid cert... blah blah and so on)

dunno if anyone else is interested in this.... am i off an a tangent?

p.s i love dizty's original posts re the JQ FA uniforms... if you havent seen it... go check it out for a good laugh:-P

ttyl ppl

SMILE!

[QANTASTIC]

Hi Peanut pusher.. Thast great news for external staff who could be offerd casuel and contract positions. I assume by this that maybe QF will not be offering any fulltime positions at all. Being internal looks as though from your comments that we then will not be offered anything as we can only be offered full time positions. Any further news on this. I to have been told that they will have new ground schools in JULY though not sure for what type of employmant ? anyone with any further info??

[Franck]

Could someone please tell me if and when QF HR offers a position to a shortlister would they give you a choice of contract or casual or do they tell you that is what you have to do? Does anyone know?

Hope someone can offer a response. Thanks.
:ooh:

[cloud nine]

Thanks for that info PP. Any idea what bases?

I called HR yesterday in regards to my application, and asked what the future holds for us. I was told that at this moment in time, they had no further details at hand. In a round about way, I was told to not get my hopes up, as there was still strong possibility that us shortlisters may not get used. But I guess, nothing can be said incase it changes at the drop of a hat...

However, I like what PP has to say.

Anymore info is always appreciated.

[GalleyHag]

Franck

I wasnt given any choice and had to decide right there and than while HR was on the other end of the line and was told that if I didnt accept they couldnt guarantee that I would even be offered anything else. However I was offered permanent Melbourne and that was my issue, the base not the type of employment.

[Franck]

Thanks so much for your info. It's great to get others' thoughts and experiences so we can all make certain decisions in advance should the need arise. :ok:

[Mr Seatback 2]

Just how many crew are still on Leave Without Pay and Temporary Part Time? Sooner or later they'll start to come back to work - anyone have any idea on the numbers left to return in both divisions (if any)?

[QANTASTIC]

In answear to Mr Seatback 2 questions as to how many crew are due back from unpaid leave. I do recal reading somthing last month and I think there were about 100 crew to return from Jul to september in long haul and a few from short haul. I cant recall the exact numbers for short haul. I hope this helps. Well its the 1st of May.. 27 days to go before we we hear somthing ... This will be the worst and longest 28 days...mmm Lets hope we get a call and get told somthing ......ANYTHING... I do however get nervouse with cloudnines coments about speaking to QF HR and giving him the impression not to hold his breath.. That is JUST NOT FAIR nor professional comming from QF speak to someone like that after they have been on hold for this amount of time.. I guess they can do whatever they like....CANT THEY?? If that is going to be the case we might as well ALL give upn now !!

[Mr Seatback 2]

Whoa nelly!

HR are simply trying to cover their behinds, in case another SARS or Iraq type situation occurs between now and when they anticipate the training schools occurring. Sure they can do as they please, but with as many chances as they have had to get rid of us, do you not think they'd have done so by now?

After all, why go through all the trouble of saying to people there will be another selection process (followed, presumeably, by another medical and security check) if you weren't interested in the candidates on the list?

Anything can happen - which is why I think HR are probably being very grey with anyone who asks them for a black and white answer.

Found this in the Dunnunda and Godzone forum, under New QF International Services:

"New QF International Services

At a tourism seminar on the Gold Coast on Thursday, Mr John Borghetti from Qantas announced the following new services;
- Mumbai. 3 x nonstop 747 services from Sydney per week from September 04
- Shanghai. 3 x nonstop A330-300 services per week from sydney from december 04
-14 new weekly services to London within the next 24 months to take up additional slots. 3 x services to London via Hong Kong to being early 2005"


So things must be looking good. Remembering of course, how good they were looking 18 months ago when we were shortlisted - right before SARS and Iraq started...

[Cart_tart]

Can anyone shed any light on what life as a QF casual is like? Would it be worth giving up a FT flying job for? How many hrs do you get? Do you earn enough to live off or do you have to have another job too?

What about the contracts? Anyone know how long they would be for? At what rate have contracts been renewed in the past?

Sorry for so many questions! I've just got a lot of thinking/evaluating to do if I get offered either of these options from the list!

CT
x

[Mr Seatback 2]

Oh and news just to hand from the IASC website (www.iasc.gov.au)...

"Qantas has applied for an allocation of capacity on the United Kingdom route - advertised on 23 February 2004 - Qantas application ( 65 KB Note: requires Acrobat Reader Version 5 or later) - Closing date for notice of intention to submit an application is COB 1 March 2004

Qantas currently operates 21 services per week between Australia and London via Singapore and Bangkok. Qantas is now seeking an allocation of an additional seven services per week in order to expand its operations to 28 services per week. As with the India application above this is the full allocation available to Australian carriers.

Qantas plans to operate an additional three services from November 2004 and the remaining four would be added over the 12 months to November 2005.

Qantas is seeking permission to price and market its services, and share/pool revenues/profits on the route, with British Airways as long as such practices are authorised under the Trade Practices Act 1974 or otherwise authorised by the Australian Competition Tribunal, in event of review by that Tribunal.

Update:

On 27 February Backpacker Xpress notified an intention to apply for capacity on the United Kingdom route - applications close at COB 24 March 2004. Backpackers Xpress has now submitted competing applications on the route. Backpacker Xpress application on United Kingdom route ( 350 KB)

On the UK route Backpackers Xpress has applied for three services a week and Qantas for the 7 seven services per week that are available.

The Commission is now calling for submissions about the applications from both Qantas and Backpackers Xpress. The closing date for notice of intention to submit is COB 6 April 2004.

On 1 April 2004 the Commission allocated the 4 uncontested services to Qantas."



Having read the report from the IASC, Qantas needs to take up at least 3 of these 4 services by 30 November 2004. The remaining 1 can be taken up after this date, whilst the other 3 slots (being contested with Backpackers Xpress) await determination from the IASC.

[Elle]

I don't have any positive or any news for you all, all I want to say is I hope you all get some good news from them soon.

You have all been in limbo for so long and it sounds like you are all going to make great FAs for Qantas or any other Airline.

Good luck everyone :D

[Mr Seatback 2]

Hey Cart Tart

Can't comment on casuals, but historically at least, contract conditions have been as follows (info provided from friends who were contractors in the past for Long Haul):

a) Pay and conditions as per Long Haul Agreement
b) Length of contract not to exceed 12 months. Normally 11 month contract applies.
c) Contract cannot be extended beyond this time - choice by Qantas to either make you permanent or finish the term of contract (and that's that!)

Long Haul have another round of EBA negotiations later this year. Presumeably the issue of offshore labour will rear it's ugly head again (ie. an increase of the current 370 cap). How this will affect our employment (if at all) remains to be seen. Furthermore, QF may seek an extension on the length of time someone spends on a contract.

Who knows what's planned...I just hope we all get what we want! ;->

[vdd]

Hi Guys

Just passing on some positive news.

A Long Haul F/A mentioned to me today that recruitment would be in July. Also said that Melb base will be expanding and will be needing more people.

Cheers :ok:

[Left2primary]

Good luck to all those crew on the short list. I hope that the long wait works out for all concerned.

Whilst I cant verify the truth to the rumour it seems that GD has said very recently that QF "intend" employing Australian nationals, based in London as a way to cut it's international ops costs.

The long haul FAAA have stated that they will do all in their power to resist any change to the status quo [negotiated aggreement] re overseas bases and have unanimous support from the membership.

The last communication from the FAAA indicates that they expect and are awaiting an announcement from QF re these issues.

It seems that the future employment prospects for long haul CC will be determined by this announcement.

If QF decide to breach the aggreement that they have with the FAAA re overseas bases and open more or substantially lift the numbers in the existing ones they may well find that the chaos caused by the last stop work meeting was just a walk in the park.

L2P

BTW, starting salary for a BA FA I understand is around 9000 GBP and analysts have been predicting a 1 billion AUD profit this year for QF.

[Q-Tee]

A simple fact .... if QF opens up a LHR base .... we will have to force Aussie staff to be redundant .... not employ new staff !

It is already our most visited port, if they employ the rumoured 500 crew there, then we will have to make the equivalent Aussie crew redundant. We still have over 100 staff to return from leave without pay in LongHaul, and they are still saying they will be offering leave without pay again .... as we are overstaffed at the moment ....It makes great business sense, anyone can see that..... but it will be a bad thing for jobs in Australia.

If they do open the proposed UK base, the FAAA will make them suffer in the media, that is certain ..... 'The Spirit of Australia' will be made a mockery of.... we already are not seen as the Spirit of Australia because of our overseas based crew ... if the hire a load of Brits, then there will be a bcaklash from the public ... the most common comment I get on a Europe trip from Aussie pax is " It's so good to hear an Australian accent .."

:*

[yellow rocket]

Adecco will be recruiting for more AKL base crew in June.

[QANTASTIC]

Thanks for that infor YelloRocket !!
I wonder how this will effect the short list. Since they will be hiring via Adecco in New Zealand I am wondering if they have made their minds up and decided not to go full time ... mmmm
Any idea anybody ?? Should we start to cry now or wait another coupld of weeks??

[Mr Seatback 2]

Correct me at will people, but wasn't this planned Adecco school in June budgeted for originally? As in, it made no bearing on the shortlist positions unless something major affected the plans of QF (ie. another SARS outbreak, etc)?

I seem to recall earlier in this thread someone saying that the planned AKL schools were a result of topping up the base to it's planned numbers (due people resigning, etc).

I wouldn't go crying yet Qantastic...just wait and see - at least until 28th May, if not, the start of the financial year!

Heard more rumours today that recruitment will commence in approx. 5 weeks time for the shortlist top-up.

Fingers crossed for all!

[ozskipper]

I don't think there's any need to panic just yet - the 28th is only a few weeks away. I'm sure QF will let us know soon enough.

I'm reasonably positive that things will sort themselves out.

[QANTASTIC]

Thanks for the positive word Mr Seat Back 2 and Ozskipper. Might as well think about a positive outcome !! Well if we will get another interview or if we need to get another histyory check/medical I am sure QF will advise us prior to the 28 May.. Since this process alone take about 4-6 weeks this might bring us to the new finacial year .. Wouldnt it be great if they offer us positions then... That would be FANTASTIC.. power of positive thinking.. WE WILL ALL GET THERE !! Is anyone else feeling like its been a very long and hard rollercoaster ride.??..WOW this will make us stronger people !!!

[QANTASTIC]

I have just read this !! From the Qantas Internet under Employmant !!
"Qantas now have opportunities to register your interest in Flight Attendant positions. Opportunities are for Permanent, Casual or Fixed Term employment in Sydney, Melbourne and Perth.

Has anybody have any idea how long this was on the internet.. I do recall having checked this a couple of months ago and this wasant on it. It has been changed. Interesting ... It seems as though somthing will be happening shortly ..Maybe??

[littlemissmel]

as far as I know, that has been on the QF website for at least a year now.... I think what it means is that you can register ur interest with QF-your resume will be put of file.

[Elle]

I'm pretty certain that has always been there, on the Qantas Employment section. Well since I've been checking, since hmmm maybe November last year.

[ozskipper]

Yep, its been there for ages and ages.... I remember seeing it from around November last year.

[QANTASTIC]

Guys thanks for that info !! I didnt notice that it had been posted there for years !! I got exited seeing that ....thought maybe there is somthing going to happen.. I did hear from a good friend form SYD that they will be doing a recruitmant in jun/jul and they also said they will be taking people from the short list as they are really short STAFFED !! Stay tune not long to go !! Any other news?? This post has been a little quiet with goss !! whats going on?? Has anybody heard anything !! Have a good one guys and cant waiti till we all get together !!
Ciao

[MelbGirl]

Thanks for the good news Qantastic, I too am a fellow shortlister with the extention to May 28. Fingers and toes crossed that they do start recruiting in Jun/Jul, It's been ages since they last recruited.

Good luck to us all...as they say 'good things come to those who wait'...

:O

[JonBoy80]

People,

I have been reading throught all your posts and I can easily say that you have been F***ed around by this airline. Why dont you all people move On. You are professional, intelligent and genuine people who deserve an airline who will take you on rather than keep you on a thread.

[ozskipper]

Its not quite as simple as that I'm afraid.... Whilst I agree we've been waiting a long time most of us think its probably worth it...

I'd be annoyed if QF was recruiting during this period, but the fact is that it hasn't recruited at all (apart from MAM) so Ii don't feel particularly messed around.... I'm just glad that I'm on the list and still got a job given what's happened over the last 18 mths (SARS, Iraq, Bali) - unfortunately there's a lot who don't have jobs...

I've been round the aviation industry long enough to know that nothing is certain and you just have to roll with the punches.

At the end of the day, I haven't considered any other airline so its not really a case of me moving on so to speak.

Appreciate your thoughts, but I'm not unhappy at where I'm at at the moment.

[QANTASTIC]

Thnaks for the comments jonboy80, but i can speak for my self and maybe a few others. Once you have got this far on a short list you dont want to be thrown of .. Its so hard to get to this stage ..So while we wait we have other jobs and hope that we get the good news that we are all waiting for. I havent applied for any other airline as it hasent interested me. Its 3 weks to go and COUNTING ! This forum has been a little quiet.. Whats everyone up to and surprising that nobody has anyfurther goss?? How is everybody feeling??I you are all feeling positive !!
see you all very soon .......in training ??

[ozflyboy]

Well, I'm still here....watching quietly from the sidelines......contemplating whether or not I would take a contract/casual possie - if anything is offered at all (of COURSE it will be!)

No more goss...come on Peanut - surely u can help us out in these final hours mate!

Hang in there team!

Oz xox

[QANTASTIC]

Thanks for that info MARSHA !! I have been told the same thing as well with the CSM being asked to work as fa.. I can also confirm the transfers from per to syd and mel.. I know somthing will happen sooon as QF cant operate as they are at the moment.. The money on drafting crew and getting csm to work as fa cost a lot of money ... So hang in there guys as i am sure once QF get the report on how much on ot they are spending we will get the call.. remember its all money at the end of the day..
Were is mr peanut ?? we haventy heard from him??

[cloud nine]

Interesting. I was under the impression that "if" us shortlisters are to be called, we were def going to be offered something at L/H. However with all the talk of S/H being so short in staff, who knows.

My friend at S/H advised me that half of the schedualed flying hours for the month were not covered by FA's, hense all the overtime available.

Yes, where is PP? Maybe being called on his day off to fly? :p

[ozskipper]

Hmm, I'd also heard LH was a possibility if recruitment were to happen.... although this was qualified with nothing is certain in this industry..... amen!! ;)

[QANTASTIC]

So guys ....less then 3 weeks to go and counting !! rumers with us maybe getting the call for long haul..Then long haul helping short haul..Short haul desperate for staff !! Gosh what do you belive !!! SO ARE WE GOING TO GET THE CALL ??? That is the 1 million dollar question?? Its like a rollercoster ride..some days you get positive info others not so positive and yet you still know as much as you knew before !! NOTHING !! Well fellow shortlisters I do hope for our sanatiy after all the extensions and rumers that we hear somthing soon!!! Or do we et the letter in the mail "thanks but no Thanks" Whats everybody thinking ! We havent had a post from Mr Seatback 2 ?? were is everybody !!
chats soon and hope to hear from you all sooner rather then later !! STAY POSITIVE !! focus on getting the call !! !mmmmmmmmmmm

[Mr Seatback 2]

Have spoken with one of my colleagues who was recruited as part of the Language Speaker recruitment just before ours...

Was given a "thanks but no thanks" letter along with other language speakers, because they were on the shortlist for too long (according to him). QF apparently are keeping them on file for future recruitment, but are unable to apply for the upcoming recruitment in the next few weeks until their 6 month waiting period expires, allowing them to reapply.

Looking at us, it would seem we may just get in by the skin of our teeth given the time on the shortlist. However, we must remember that QF spent a great deal of money on this recruitment, given many aspects were outsourced (1st stage phone interviews, staffcv records, etc).

I'm continually hearing rumours that training schools from July-August onwards.

Fingers crossed all works out! Don't stress guys...what will be, will be.

[yellow rocket]

...and just think, all of those base transfers approved for PER crew have to be filled from somewhere...

[vdd]

Anyone know when this upcoming recruitment drive might be?
I've heard July. Does anyone have anymore info on this?

I wonder if QF will update their FA recruitment website page for the next recruitment drive? They might put in new requirements etc for their new destinations.

Hang in there everyone. We'll all get our turn soon. ;)

[JonBoy80]

Good luck to you all. You are very patient people and Im sure good things come to those who wait. ( Its true, I can admitt to that). From what I can see, I think they are just taking their time and In doing so they are forgetting all the "shortlisters" who are awaiting anxiously. Remmember at the end of the day it all comes down to HR and what is cost effective regarding recruitment..

Hope it all works out..


Goodluck.
fingerscrossed

[Q-Tee]

If there are vacancies in Perth, they will be filled locally... QF has had a lot of trouble with people from over here in SYD being recruited for the Perth base, then wanting to transfer out as soon as they get there (and getting rather grumpy when the transfers take so long!!)

From what I have been told, they will only look at hiring locals in the Perth and Melb bases from now on, so as they will want to stay there.

People from states where there are no bases, they will try and put closest to their home state.


I have heard that there will shortly be some more MAM casuals employed, in all bases.



Oh and as a foot-note, the rumoured 30+ transfers from Perth is just that - a rumour ..... it hasnt happened. But I believe they are still short staffed.

[jb_flyer]

Perth is fine with me! as I hail from this side of this great country of ours...

Fingers crossed for me and all you Shortlisters out there!

JB

[QANTASTIC]

Hi Q-Tee... Reading your thread. "there will be further MAM schools in all bases.. So do you think that QF HR have decided to go the contract way and not have any permanent positions. We have 12 working days !! I think if we would have ben thrown of the short list we would have received a letter by now. I am sure HR QF already know what they will do with us shortlisters!! Lets hope they do a good thing !! Mr Seatback 2 ..Your friend that was interviewed before us.. Was he an external applicant or a external one. Its stange hoe they can say we will KEEP YOU ON FILE but you cant apply for 6 months??? Amazing isnt it!!
I keep hearing positive info re new schools planned as well for Jul-Aug ... Fingers crossed. I thought early on the threads we thought that we might need to do medicals and security checks again !! I would have thought they would have told us something.. Unless they will tell us in the next couple of weeks and drag it on for another 6 weeks after that?? Any thoughts??
Its getting interesting !!!!

[SydGirl]

The QF Cabin Crew website says that there is no recruitment planned for 2003/4 financial year. However it does say that they are anticipating recruitment shortly after that, however not necessarily for permanent full time positions.

If you can "read between the lines" I believe that says that they will only be employing FAs on contracts and casuals.

It is quite possible that all (cabin crew) employees will now have to be employed on a contract first before they are made permanent, or given a kiss goodbye. It makes much better business sense to do that, to try before you buy.

Anyway I wish all the shortlisters the best of luck and I hope you all hear some positive news soon.

SG
:}

[OZcabincrew]

Hi guys!!!!!

I am too on the shortlist until the 28th of May, but i am also a casual MAM Flight Attendant based out of Perth and it is fantastic!!!! Fair enough we don't get things like staff travel, but there are so many other benefits, in no way are you separated because you're MAM. I know in Perth all Managers and crew treat everyone equally, full-time long haul crew are the same as casual short haul crew etc and that makes for a comfortable working environment! All i can say guys is, don't all get your hopes up for permanent LH positions, just keep an open mind and be willing to take whatever is thrown your way (if it is viable) There are 10 SH casuals in Perth and we are all on rosters for this month barr a couple who chose not to be for other committments etc which is fine, but the workload is expected to continue into future months. Don't think, if you're casual your going to have to work 5 other jobs, you obviously do have to have in the back of your mind that there will be quiet months and you just adapt to that appropriately. Just remember because i got caught up in all of this, just about everything on here is RUMOUR, don't believe any of it until you see it. I wouldn't believe i had the job until i was standing there in the uniform and the contract was signed etc! but each to their own.

Good luck to all shortlisters, i hope it all works out for everyone at the end of the month. If everyone gets offered full-time L/H positions fantastic well done, and if everyone get's offered casual/contract S/H positions fantastic well done.

Oz
x

[GalleyHag]

So you applied to QF like everyone else and QF passed your information onto MAM and you secured a casual position Perth base and you still remain on the QF shortlist until 28 May?

[QANTASTIC]

Marsha !! RE "For those of us who applied via blue notice, I would say there would be too many legalities involved if they decide to scrap the short list and start recruiting again June/July. For externals, also told they have a position when one becomes available." I have to say I have been told by a friend who is on the short list who also applied via a blue notice..That they investigated this with the union and was advised they WILL not be able to drop the waitlist and recomce recrutmant in Jun/Jul !! They will have a lot of LEGAL issued with this. So I guess that makes me feel better !! I have been told again as mentioned this si a RUMER page but were there is smoke there is fire that we will all be fine on the short list. As there is not many of us that in the new financial year all will be advised !! I am sitting on the edge of my seat for some any type of contact!! I do have to ask OZcabincrew !! How can you be on the shortlist still but work as a MAM !! I was under the impression once you take the MAM position that you cant be on the shortlist!! I cant remember but early on the threads there was mention that we might have to get a security check and medical again .. Can anyone confirm this ..If this is the case they might advise us soon to start movement on the whole process!! I was told by a very reliable source as well just the other day that there is a VERY SMALL amount of shortlisters that are on the shortlist !Mostly all internal at this stage !! AMAZING !!! lets keep smiling !

[OZcabincrew]

Hi Guys!!!!

I had absolutely nothing to do with MAM whatsoever until the job offer was there. I went through the whole QF recruitment process (never applied to MAM) until i got a call (coming up to a year on the shortlist) from Qantas HR asking that if there were casual MAM positions to be available in Perth, would i be interested in taking it? Of course i said yes, because i was willing to take anything. This also applies to the 9 other MAM casuals based in Perth. Infact one of the girls asked the HR person at the time if we still remained on the shortlist for QF and the reply was 'yes'. Then during EP/service training in Melbourne, we all received and email saying that our positions on the shortlist had been extended until the 28th of May this year, so.......

Thanks
OZ

[GalleyHag]

Thanks for the info Ozcabincrew. You are in a great position, very lucky.

QANTASTIC

You will have to do security again (well maybe not you personally as you are internal and you should have done the new security clearance). But externals that applied over a year ago will have to for sure and this is currently taking 6-8 weeks to process.

[QANTASTIC]

OZcabin crew thanks for that info !! I am glad your happy and doing what you love !! I hope we all get a chance at it as well !!

GalleyHag thanks for that info ! I would assume if they did the security checks again would they have to get everybody to complete new forms ! Or would QF be able to resue the old ones!! I guess if it is going to take that long to get security cheks even if they start nowe it would be close to the end of June or mid July before they get clearance ! mmm Sounds interesting !! It will be interesting to find out what is going on !! I guess time will tell as we get closer to the 28th !! It would be interesting when QF start to advertise for NEW CABIN CREW !! Mr Seatback 2 how have you been ?? You havent heard any goss latley ! I have to say you have been keeping quiet !! Take care until next I read the posts !! Hope to hear if Marsha had any more news..specialy re the blue notice position !! Maybe you can PM me marsha !! We ALL NEED TO STICK TOGETHER Ciao!!!

[Q-Tee]

Sorry QANTASIC

QF is very conscious of legalities

neither internals or externals on the waitlist have been told 'they have a position once one becomes available' .... QF recruitment would never be that definite, not without a following clause along the lines of ' however if you are not called within xxx months, you will have to reapply.... ".

They never promise anything, and that is the smart legal strategy .... trust me - anyone who tells you they have some sort of legal claim against QF for not recruiting from the shortlist is seriously deluding themselves .... it has all been tried before, many,many, many times !!!

Sorry to burst a bubble, but also .... you think if anyone launches some legal claim against a large airline they would make it through training school without QF finding a reason for them to be fired??? methinks not .... it aint that hard ;)

[GalleyHag]

Qantastic

YES there are new forms which need to be completed and they are sent to the relevant agencies including ASIO before the new ASIC is issued. As a QF employee you would be aware of this right? All current ASIC cards expire on 30/6/04 and all staff were supplied with the new forms and it is currently taking 6-8 weeks before clearance is given and the new card is issued.

Therefore as an external applicant they will be issued with the new forms than they will have to wait before clearance is given and they can pick up their ASIC that is of course if they are offered a position.

[ozskipper]

Qantastic...

I believe you (or your friend) are referring to s.53B Trade Practices Act which relates to misleading conduct in relation to employment.

Basically, a company cannot engage in practices that may mislead a person as to the availability of employment (there's a bit more involved, but for this post this is the relevant bit).

QF have only indicated that opportunities exist to register your interest in a position with QF. They haven't actually indicated that positions are available.

I have to agree with Q-Tee on this one, I doubt whether this claim would have any legs in front of a Tribunal.

But see where you are coming from....

Cheers

[AIRBUST]

Well, with positive thinking and a good chance QF will need to recruit come July. I am hoping that by setting the expiry 28th May. Hopefully, we may be contacted in the next 12 days that we need to resubmit our security check info so it can be processed and an offer can be made and training start early-mid July.

All sounds good that if the previous rumours are correct QF L/H and maybe S/H do need to hire (particularly in Mel). It takes time and $ to process new applicants and get them to the stage we are at. Stage 5.

QF had big plans to add additional routes and aircraft to it fleet back in Nov 2002. We where good enough then! The world events caused this big company to take action to secure its profits and align with aviation trends. Now the world is moving forward again and as is aviation. Customer are feeling more confident to fly again and the market looks healthy to an extent once more. We have the commenwealth games in the near future thus creating more travel and tourism to our country. How are these people going to fly? The 'Spirit of Australia' sounds good to me.

All waitlisters should take a sigh and think all good things come to those who wait. 12 more days and we should know our answers and with all fingers and toes crossed hopefully it will be our turn.

I have good feelings and hope to see others in future training schools.

Good luck to every body esle and keep positive.

[cloud nine]

QF HR just called me this morning, advising of what they have to offer. Longhaul, 10 months fixed term contract. Ground school to start in July. Not sure what base at the moment, but they are taking prefrences.

I was told that I will be called back soon to be given more details.

Who else has received the call???

[ozskipper]

Haven't heard a peep.... Are you an internal applicant or external?

[ozskipper]

Ok, just got a call from QF HR.

Absolutely no promises of a job - in fact they took great pains in explaining this wasn't a job offer, just a gauging interest in contract positions.

Essentially, 10 month contract with absolutely no promise of anything at all ongoing - in fact she said it was unlikely.

All that they wanted to know at this stage was whether I was interested in a 10 month contract with Long Haul and what my base preference was (they had already assumed MEL).

Apparently, IF they decide to proceed we will get a call back sometime. No time frames at this stage as to when. Also, no time frames for when actual training might start, but possibly June onwards.

Its all terribly exciting in a non-commital kinda way. :)

Footnote: I'm external in Melbourne.

[MelbGirl]

Wow congratulations on hearing from Qantas..I'm still anxiously waiting by the phone...I'd take anything they're offering. It definitely sounds like you've got a foot in the door!

Are you internal or external? I'm external in MEL so i'm keeping my fingers crossed.

[GalleyHag]

10 Months!! These fixed terms are getting shorter and shorter.

You really have to look at both sides of the coin. You will of course hear all the stories about fixed termers being made permanent in the past but there were also a hell of a lot that werent and still are not flying today and havent heard a word from QF since their contract expired. We are in a very different aviation environment now as apposed to the last time fixed termers were employed by QF and this is something you have to take into consideration.

But on the other hand, if you accept good luck and enjoy the 10 months while it lasts.

[AIRBUST]

I got the call at about 1600hrs today. I was told that we would be terminated at the end of the 10 months therefore April. Iwas told we would be put back on the waitlist for a period of 6 months to Oct 2005.
Nothing else was specified only that we may have to attend a panel interview as we have been on the list so long.
10 months will go so fast but you have got to be in it to win.

[ozskipper]

I agree GalleyHag - 10 months is a little shorter than I would have liked, but at the end of the day I think the experience would be worthwhile.

I had kinda figured that there would no way a permanent ongoing position would have been offered so I'd braced myself for 12 months or less.

Whilst there's no guarantee of anything at the end of it, I'm hoping that I might have a foot in the door if something does come up later on, but I'm realistic ;)

Anyway, at the moment its all still a big rumour until they actually give me something in writing! :)

[gigs]

for what its worth and based on my passed experience and what qf want to achieve 10mths to help in setting up os bases.england being the first one.hope this industrial stuff sharnt rain on anybodys parade.youd love to be a fly on v wall but 10mths does seem for a purpose with no carrotts either??????for any job after?????? good luck all.n guess if you do it youll see some great places and get paid for it.

[cloud nine]

Totally agree Gigs. I spoke to LH FAAA today, and they are almost positive that the UK base will go ahead. With two more o/s bases planned aswell.

When I received the call earlier today from QF HR, I was WELL informed that this type of employment that may be offered will no way in any shape or form become permanent.

I do understand that QF must say this to cover themselves legally, and also in fairness to make all applicants totally aware of the grounds of employment.

But going on the fact that o/s bases are on the cards, and the fact that Dixon wants to cut permanent employee's. Id have to say that it is a big risk if you are going to accept this contract hoping that you will eventually be made permanent.

At the end of the day, we all have different circumstances and goals for the future. I understand that some people will be more than happy to experiance LH flying for possibly only 10 months and thats it. If thats for you, I wish you all the best, and hope you get what it is you are looking for in the end.

However, personally, I couldnt do it. And where I am in my flying career at the moment, I cant take the risk of having nothing at the end of a contract. Its a gamble, a gamble that I dont want to play at this time.

Once again though, I do wish all those that accept the position the best of luck, and look forward to hearing all your experiances.

[Q-Tee]

gigs

there is a little language we call English ;) you obviously haven't come across it .... no offence intended :)

[SocialFlyer]

Hi Cloud Nine,

You definately raised some valid pints in your post. Can I just ask are you still working for Eastern or have you left now?

SocialFlyer

[QANTASTIC]

Well guys !! I guess the time has come that you all will have to decide whats best for you!! If tou do take the 10 months Is it worth it?? Even if you do have a full time JOB?? I would hate to get the tase of it and then of you go back to a waitlist and then nothing could come of it !! Well good luck to you all if thats the choice you make !! I being an internal havent heard nor have my friend on the short list heard anything !! I guess they (QF) have made there minds up and goingt he contract way!! If this is so we can all say goodbuy to the short list as we dont even get a choice to be asked.. So guys i think this could be it ..Maybe a letter in the mail soon !! sad sad sad !! Well what do the other internals on this forum think??? Let us know and well I guess keep smiling until next Friday !! .....

[gigs]

good on yah q..tee no offence taken.can talk english just cant type it unless it was to save my life.think i got v point across though.signing out out this topic now . thats my way of saying no more typing........happy flying folks.

[jb_flyer]

Now that things seem to be happening.... And the great rumour mill is turning, and being added to by ACTUAL calls from QF HR... I have a question:

Has anybody heard any more about the PER base? I read that a lot of staff are headed back east, and that staff are being called in on days off and under lower duties to man flights, so is there any plans for recruitment in PER? I know LH has been discussed here, with the theory of 10 mth contracts, but what about the SH PER Base?

On a similar subject, the PER SH Base isnt listed in StaffCV as a prefered base, Im guessing its because nobody has updated it since the PER SH base opened.

So any takers?

JB

PS: Id also love to hear from any PER bases Cabin Crew, who would like to chat to me and I can ask some questions? Im sure you get asked this all the time, but the worst that could happen is a free lunch/ coffee...

[cloud nine]

Hi SocialFlyer,

Im still with Eastern, and it doesnt suit me right now to take a contract with QF. Im happy where I am, and wont risk it.

Just a longshot, has anyone thought that QF are offering contracts first and then maybe ( fingers crossed) will offerer internals or anyone in the Qantas group permanent? Highly doubt it, but its softening the blow at the moment! :(

Maybe the internals/Qgroup will have their waitlist extended yet again:confused: Oooops...hang on...a purple pig just flew past my window! :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[ozflyboy]

Guys, guys,

Gee.....don't know what I'll do when (if!) I am faced with this decision......did miss a "private number" call yesterday morning with no message left (very QF) so maybe......

Am the same as cloud nine - don't know if I would give up a great full-time job for 10 months - different if they said that we MAY be made permanent/extended after this.

Where is everyone who are getting the calls based now?? I know of one in MEL - any SYD or PER ppl got the call yet? Come on guys - it has gone all too quiet at the last minute!!

Oz xox

[cloud nine]

Dont worry too much about your missed call. A friend of mine was flying at the time, and QF HR left a message for him to return the call. I do know of 3 other FA's that have yet to receive the call. So it's anyone's guess as to what is going on. :confused:

Roll on May 28th, curious to know what the FINAL outcome is going to be for us all.

[Cart_tart]

No call for me or any of the 7 other people I know on the list in PER.
Perhaps they're only offering it for eastern states bases? Maybe there is another agenda for PER?
Who knows! Fingers crossed for everyone!

[Q-Tee]

The current ( and very persistent) rumour regarding perth is that the LongHaul base there will close, and all crew become shorthaul .... this kinda makes sense as the shorthaul crew can now do all of the flying that the Longhaul Crew do in Perth (they have new duty hour limitations within their award).

So it may only be a shorthaul option for perth. I have heard again more MAM casuals are happening for all bases.

[QANTASTIC]

Thanks Q-Tee for that info ! It just confirms that there will be more casuels working within QF Cabin Crew. I guess QF wants to be as profitbale as possible. I spoke to a friend today and they belive the LON base will be on the cards by mid next year. The current QF EBA with CREW i think expires some time mid to end of this year. So I feel they will have this placed in the award to expand of shore crew ..If they do base a local crew in LON as QF will have more flying there..with additional capacity via HKG it makes sense from the cost cutting side of things, from the moral point I think it will be bad. She can see the domestic doing short to mid flying as the short haul crew turn around is less and therfore cheaper. Having crew base in LON they wont have to crew the aircrafts all the way to Lon..SO from what they told me there are going to be big changes in store if QF gets there way !
So who knows what they will do with the curect waitlist. From the sounds of it they will offer externals LH casuel positions and the internals either nothing "see you later letter" or make this the last permanant schools that go through!! Lets hope that will be the case. I guess and keep saying if they wanted to drop us of the short list they could have done that in March as they would have know then what they were planning to do. Nearly there guys ! ..Whats happend to MR Seatback 2??? chat tomorow!!

[ozflyboy]

Hey Guys.....

Yeah, got the call just after I posted on here this morn.....so now, we wait again......

Really don't know what to do - the lovely lady on the other end of the phone was VERY clear in getting the point across that it is VERY unlikely that we will be made permanent or offered anything past the 10 months......IF we are offered anthing at all!

What to do?? Give up a perfectly enjoyable and well paid current flying job so that one can experience a short amount of time in Long Haul (with no staff travel, mind you) and move interstate?

......but who knows - we may be lucky enough to become permanent in March next year.......

Come on insiders (PP!!) - is it worth the risk?

HELP!!

Oz xox

[Mr Seatback 2]

Crazy, crazy goings on...

MS2 has been really busy absorbing 3 new manuals of new procedures, a new aircraft type and it's all learn it now now now!

This is while I'm trying to enjoy the last of my overnights while they exist (sigh!)

As for this whole 10 month contract thing...pfffft! Just changed my staffcv application to say "Permanent" so they get the message. Will it lessen my chances? Right now, with all that's going on in my neck of the woods, I'm too busy to care!

I've heard many rumours, similar to those already posted here. Sadly, nothing positive (that is, anything that can improve on what little hope QF are providing people).

I haven't been called yet, but then I have been flying like mad these past few days. Maybe they don't like my voicemail greeting??!

Busy busy busy...between shortening my 7ft long trousers (apparently we haven't heard of 'hemming' with this uniform), making sure my lapels are as orange as they come ('pull here in emergency') AND inhaling the paint fumes of the crew room (I mean, bright orange walls. Relaxing I don't think).

You probably won't see me for another week. Launch is in T-Minus 7 days...and counting!

[GalleyHag]

Since my last post a lot of short haul crew have been speculating on the purpose of a 10 month contract. The most common form is that these fixed term crew will be used as "Strike Breakers" and to fill the void until the new overseas bases are up and running.

QF have plans to only increase international flying and more aircraft so everyone is wondering why only 10 months when the plan is for expansion.

Im sure as a fixed term crew member you can become a member of the FAAA International Division but I'm unsure if you would be protected like permanent crew if it comes to striking therefore putting you between a rock and hard place should this action be taken later in the year.

Also heard yesterday that QF regionals that applied externally WILL NOT be offered fixed term positions any truth to that rumour? If so anyone know why the change in attitude considering QF regionals in the past have been offered fixed term positions with QF.

[QF skywalker]

Two friends of mine both working for subsidiaries of QF ( one regional, one AO ) have both had an offer of a 10month fixed term contract.

Both declined.

My friend told the lovely lady at QF HR this......" so you mean to tell me you have made me wait 14months to offer me a 10month contract ????? "

Of course the QF HR lady was speechless :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:

[JonBoy80]

I cant beleive they have made you all wait so long. If you havent heard anything by now and they constantly telll you to "wait", then I would move on. At the end of the day, your talents will be shining if you were to apply for another airline. Your not the issue here, THEY ARE....

...

All the best.

[cloud nine]

Im flying for Qantaslink. I was called by HR and offered ( well kinda ) a 10 month contract.

I was then called back a few hours later to be told that because I am in the QF group, I can only be offered permanent work, no contracts. So Im now back on the wait list till May 28th.

I did apply EXTERNALLY, no blue notice, no managers permission. I applied like everyone else off the street so to speak. ( no offence in my wording).

I was always lead to beleive that when I was given a start date by QF, that I then resign from Qantaslink and start a fresh with Qantas. I am sure this has been done before. I def know its been done with Shorthaul. Maybe longhaul is different. Dunno :confused:

So my choice was made for me in regards to having to take the risk of accepting the 10 month contract. However I was swaying towards not accepting it anyway.

Anyway thats my little story...just hope I am either kept on file for permy work, or offered it before May 28th.

The plot thickens.......

JONBOY80..... Just moving on is easier said than done. Even after waiting so long on the wait list, I still want to fly for Qantas as much as I did when I first went to the interviews. I just want something more stable than what they can offer us right now. Thats all. I dont think anyone that has declined the offer of a contract would be that "over it" to not accept permanent employment if it was offered.
I wouldnt say that QF have issue's, It's more like they are thinking from a buisness side of it all. Totally accept that, avaiation has changed over the past few years, and thats something that we all have to accept. The days when you were offered permanent employment right from the start are very few and far between. Its all about being cost effective from QF's side of it, but unfortunatley it doesn't always work in our favour.

[QANTASTIC]

mmmmm interesting !! Things happening!!
Well not long to go before our fate hard work and waiting will come to an end. Next Friday is around the corner. Its interesting though that QF HR have contacted people externaly but has made NO contact to any internal staff member. I wonder why?? Would it be becouse they are doing a big post of the letters next week to say TA TA or are we going to be extended again or will we be told somthing !! The rumer mill is so big at the moment I could be here all day. All I can say is for us who havent been told anything is to remain calm and not belive anything until we wither get a call or get somthing in black and white. Until then we have to be positve !! Any internals heard of any other internal been contacted ??? I belive good things will happen !!! stay tuned !!

[ozskipper]

Thats a bummer Cloud Nine. Never know a better offer may be around the corner for you.

[Franck]

I am an external shortlister and I too received a call from QF HR and has been offered same as everyone else thus far. I have accepted the potential offer hoping for 10 months I will gain some wonderful experiences. However, if I had a great full time airline job like Cloud Nine, I would not hesitate in declining the offer. We all have to prioritise our needs and work out what is most important to us.

The one problem I would have is if QF was to use crew on contracts to be 'strike breakers' as Galley Hag suggested. Let's just hope it won't get to that.

I just wish that the whole dragged out saga ends sooner than later and both internal and external shortlisters can have a positive outcome.

Keep the faith everyone!

[jb_flyer]

Does anybody know how many people remain on this shortlist? And any ideas how many staff QF is looking to put on?

The reasoning behind my question is that there are people not from the shortlist (myself included) who are keen to try and work out if there might be any jobs left over after the first right of refusal goes to all the shortlisters.

JB

[Mr Seatback 2]

Well - they didn't forget about ME!

QF HR called me this morning to ask me firstly did I work for Impulse/Jetstar or Virgin. Strange considering there isn't a hint on my application that I work, or have worked, for Virgin.

I replied Impulse/Jetstar.

The response was as follows:

"OK...um...ahhh...so you're already employed by the Qantas Group.

We were just checking who you worked for. Um...ahhh...um....that's okay.

Just needed to confirm that detail. Don't know why we thought you worked for Virgin.

Okay...um...just disregard this call then, okay?"

So...reading between the um's and the ahh's here, it would appear they were on the VERGE (oh yes, the verge) of asking me to join the 10-month contract list...BUT WERE STOPPED! YES - held back by the fact that I'm in the same position as Cloud Nine (with ya girl!)

I now return to learning my A320 drills and equipment, secure in the fact that when all around me looks like crap for the QF shortlist, I at least have a permanent full time flying job like Cloudy!

OH yes - we're not moving till we're offered permanent!

[QANTASTIC]

Well it seems reading this forum that they have jsut about gone throught he whole list of external perople ! I do wonder however if you applied as an external why they wouldnt treat you like one like you Mr Seatback 2 and cloud nine !! Why would they care and isnt the choice yours at the end of the day even if you did want to take out a contract !! Strange ... Guys why do you think that might be the case ..Even more strange asking you if you work for Virgin!! I guess they would have called a few people and the shortlisters that appled externaly might have also appled with the Virgin Group and have started with them but still remain on the short list!! Like at the end of the day not sure why it matters, surley you got on the shortlist becouase they want what you have got. mmmm dont understand!! Can anybody shed any light on this ongoing DRAMA !!

[ozflyboy]

What on earth is going on with these ppl??

Firstly, when they called me, I WASN'T asked where I currently worked (but I AM now flying full-time - I wasn't when I was initially placed on the shortlist) - but I HAVE changed my StaffCV profile to indicate that I am now flying and no longer working in the profession that I was in November 2002. So why I wasn't asked the same question, I don't know........

Secondly, I know of several ppl on the shorlist who are NOT internals (all flying with different airlines) who HAVEN'T been called as yet.......

Strange, strange happenings......I guess all will be revealed in the next few days.

Keep us updated folks - let's see if we can work this thing out!

Oz xox

[Q-Tee]

well, if you think about it QANTASTIC, it would cost the Qantas Group more money to hire an internal for a once-off ten month contract than an external.

If they put a Jetstar f/a (or another internal staff member) onto this contract, they not only have to pay for the training/ uniform/admin of that contractor, but the Group also has to pay to replace the internal, with another employee. So they are in effect emplying two people (with all the associated costs). And paying the costs all for one employee that will be with them for only ten months.

If an internal goes to a full-time position within flying, they still pay the costs of replacing them, but it is a better investment as they are getting a full-time employee, who will presumably work for years to come.

If they give the contract to an external applicant, then they are only paying to employ that person, as it doesnt create a vacancy in another part of the group.

Just myn personal view of the situation !

[QFshort30]

I received a letter from QF the end of Mar. saying that "im out of list after I was on the shortlist over 1 year and 8months"

But i got a call from QF this morning if Im still interested in working with QF (10monts contract or something...)

Are they kidding me??? Who do they think they are?

They interviewed us when there is no job going on and made us spend a lot of money as if we all got in.
I almost quit my job after I made the final interview(lucky I didnt)
Not everyone is expert like you guys on here.
(I dont know anyone from QF, and it was my first interview with QF)

what is this short list stuff??
after I gave them my updetate detail a few times, they still sent me letters with no contact number to my old address.
I found my letter from QF in the bin next my mail box.
This is so disorganized.

Well, I think people here are too nice.
I guess I was the same untill I got cut...
When I think about all the stuff we did. (effort, time, money etc)
I waited long enough, I dont deserve to be treated like this.

I am not interested in working for compny like this.
if its like this in the interview process, just imajine working with them.... Get real QF:mad:

Well, this is only my opinion...
Hope you guys will get whatever you after. Good luck.

[QANTASTIC]

QFSHORT30.... All I can say its amazing !! I am just amazed !! Just when I think I have heard it all.. I read this !! I cant belive you were on the short list for 18 months then got a thanks but no thanks and then they call you today to ask you if you would like to work for 10 months !! I hope you voiced your thoughts because I dont think what happend to you is good at all. It realy gives the company a bad name.. So did they explain to you why they are calling you after they said you were out of the picture?? I have a feeling that they are getting a lot of people saying NO to the 10 month contract therefore they are running out of people who the can call so they thought they would try their luck with you guys !! sad isnt it!! I have heard if anybody does take this 10 month contract they WILL NOT get any extention nor will they be made full time !! I hope they dont get a lot of interest and maybe they will call you next time and ask you if you would like a full time positions!! I would if I was you write a letter of complaint to the General manager of Humen resources and explain everything.. I am sure they would be shocked what has happend as I belive they right hand dosent know what the left hand is doing !! I bet they would be surprised with your letter and if they get more letters they will maybe think about how they treat people with interviews !! Go fo it !! You have nothing to loose !! See what response they give you !! Lucky you didnt leave your job!!

[JonBoy80]

Guys, Listen. Just move one. Dont u understand. They will NOT HIRE you and if they do it will be for a pissy 10 months. Cant you guys respect yourselves?. I have read every post (nearly) on this topic and its all negative. Why bother joinining an airline who tell you "congrats welcome to qantas, you have made it but your on our shortlist we MIGHT contact your in 18months, thanks". Pathetic. QFshort30 at least you have seen the light and can realise what a disorganised airline this is

[34R]

STRIKE-BREAKERS eh!! If that is the rumour among shorthaulers does that confirm their intention to strike? Or do they think the company expects industrial action and are just covering their bases?
I am a little confused, and I must say if there is industrial action I fail to see the point of it given;

1. How easily you are going to replaced in the short term,

2. The state of the industry right now. You would want to be very secure in your position if you are thinking about striking.

What a deplorable state of affairs. QF are just showing their contempt for people who are investing their own time, money and effort in actually wanting to be a part of this group.

I have to concur with JonBoy80. I would be extremely surprised if anything permanent is ever offered straight off the bat. If you aren't prepared to take a contracted term i think your long term prospects are futher reduced. Why would QF invest time and money hiring one group, who did what the company asked of them, yet 10 months down the track brush them aside and hire a fresh load of recruits for a permanent spot, all of whom may have rejected a prior offer? Sound ludicrous? Probably because it is. Whilst it wouldnt surprise me to see some of those who take this deal end up on the F/A scrap heap in 10 months time, unfortunately I really think your only shot at a full time and permanent job with QF is to have whatever contract you may be on extended. If that sits well with you, good on you for trying and I wish you luck. If it doesnt you better start applying to someone else. I dont think AN hired any F/A's full time in their last few years (non casuals) and that was pre 9/11, pre war and pre sars.

Being positive is commendable, being realistic can be a little harder.

[ozskipper]

Jonboy

With respect - I think we're possibly old enough to make our own minds up as to how we see our careers moving (or not moving) forward.

Your views on Qantas are valid and completely understandably however many of us have invested an incredible amount of time and effort in our application to Qantas and its not a case of moving on. I think it would be fair to say that may of the applicants here have a particular desire to work for Qantas and simply moving isn't really an option. If I were just looking for a airline job I would have applied to many different potential employers, however I particularly want to work for Qantas. I like the product, the potential future career advancement and I even like the aircraft in service. Now thats not taking away from the other carriers and the excellent job their employee's do - it's just not what I'm looking for.

I've spent a considerable amount of time considering my position (read soul searching!) and whether it would be a worthwhile exercise to take up a 10 month contract, if its offered at all. Sure, 10 months isn't what I was ultimately looking for, however its an opportunity to experience what I've been looking for and if it only turns out to be 10 months - well thats better than not experiencing it at all.

I think the important thing to keep in mind here is that Qantas is considered to be an employer of choice and its a business. They owe us nothing ultimately until we're actually employee's.

I hope this provides some insight as to my motives and perhaps the motives of some of the other prooners.

[leemo]

Qantas HR appear extremely disorganised when it comes to hire on new crew, but this is borne from other depts. flight planning, ops etc. who decide on new routes/extra flights at the last minute. HR are then left to fill vacancies but company directives to 'right size' mean they have to be careful not to hire crew who may not be needed later on.

The contract situation is perfect for QF. Offer 10 months and if things are looking good at the end of it you might be kept on. If you aren't kept on at least its good experience to have on your resume.

I took the gamble a few years ago and accepted a 6 month contract with QF. At the end of the contract I was made permanent. Some people were not, I don't know how the company decided who they kept but I feel it was more a numbers game and they didn't look into performance when making the decision.

The company are extremely short of crew at the moment. They have asked crew to cancel leave and in short haul they have asked people to volunteer to work on their days off with a guarantee of 8hrs IPD (time and a half) pay whether you work or not. The company's official line is that they are short due to unplanned flying and crew courses but I read that as 'we got the numbers wrong again due to lack of foreplanning'.

The company also have to allow SH crew to drop hours and I don't think they had factored in how many people would drop to 65hrs and leave heaps of flights uncrewed. The casual crew were hired to fill this 'open time' but they still don't have enough people to cover it.

34R - Actually I think you will find it long haul crew who are heading for industrial action. The company are planning to open a London base in 2005 and this would mean a huge change in our flying patterns. We have Auckland and Bangkok based crew already so a London base would devastating for Australian based crew, in particular junior crew who can only get London trips.

The plan so far is to have the London based crew operate Heathrow to Asia (Singapore, Bangkok, Shanghai, Mumbai) and have Australian crew operating up to Asia. The cost savings for the company would be no overnights in London so saving money on hotels and allowances which have to be paid in UK Pounds.

The problem with this is that Junior Australian crew need LHR trips in order to make a liveable salary. The fact is you just can't live on the base wage in Sydney / Melbourne.

To save costs in London the crew will not work for QF but for a labour company (Similar to The Kiwi and Thai crew who actually work for Adecco). QF would not have to pay super / sick pay / provide staff travel etc. so saving a lot of money. Although they would need to pay a substantial base pay for people in London because its just so expensive to live there.

So where would Australian crew fly to? Thai and Kiwi crew already do Jo'Berg, LA, Auckland, Bangkok and Frankfurt.

Our EBA has a limit to the amount of o/s crew and the company is trying to raise this. As much as I hate to say this I think it will end in industrial action and for an extended period of time so it hurts the share price (which is also G. Dixon seems to care about).

I don't want to inconvenience out customers with cancelled flights etc. but why should Australian jobs go o/s? We have to stand up to QF and not let them erode our working conditions.

QF knows industrial action is likely so can use the 10 month contractors as strike breakers. They did this last time LH crew went on strike. QF gave SH casuals 1 day 747 training and then passengered them all over the network (on Virgin Blue, Cathay Pacific, United) so they could operate flights!


I've cut and pasted a recent memo from the FAAA :


-OVERSEAS BASES-

THE FAAA POSITION

Last week I contacted Qantas in relation to the mounting speculation that Qantas was seriously contemplating the opening of additional overseas bases and the employment of more overseas based crew. The speculation centred particularly on the establishment of a London base and the possibility that Qantas will want to remove the current cap restriction on overseas based crew (370).

The Company responded to my queries in similar terms to the newsletter issued by Mark Hassell to you dated 31 March 2004.

The FAAA believes that it is the intention of the Company to establish a London base with approximately between 350-400 cabin crew employed by contract. We further believe that if the base is established that Australian Long Haul crew will not be flying to London.

Let there be no ambiguity, the FAAA will oppose by all means available any attempt by Qantas to remove the 370 cap on overseas-based crew. The manner by which Qantas resolves the Divisional Flying negotiations and the issue of overseas bases will be the litmus test for its likely behaviour in EBA VII negotiations later this year.

The outcome of these two issues will determine the industrial stance that the FAAA leadership will adopt in the coming months. Cabin Crew should be under no illusion that an expansion of overseas based crew is a direct threat to your working conditions and to the ability of Australian based crew to obtain favourable outcomes in future EBA rounds.

The FAAA has had discussions with Shane Enright the Aviation Secretary of the International Transport Workers Federation (ITF) about this issue on 26 March and the ITF will assist the FAAA in relation to this issue if required.

I will be writing to you very shortly about further steps that the FAAA will be undertaking in relation to this issue. The FAAA will also ensure that measures are taken to ensure we have sufficient funds on hand to mount a comprehensive campaign against any announcement by Qantas to further expand overseas bases.

[JonBoy80]

Ozskipper. Yes I understand what you are saying and Yes Im sure you are old enough to make decisions, no doubt about that. If you did your soul search and research into airlines, why did you apply for Qf if you knew what you were going to get into. I.E The short list wait which dissapears after 18months. Pathetic I say. Remmeber the saying. When one door closes the other one opens. I think a few wannabes here have actually taken that step.. But hey, once again your old enough as you say.

Cheers.

[ozskipper]

If you did your soul search and research into airlines, why did you apply for Qf if you knew what you were going to get into. I.E The short list wait which dissapears after 18months

I went into this process fully aware of the fact it might take 18 months before I was employed (or even at all). You'll note from my previous posts that I've not actually complained about my length of time on the shortlist.

I was also prepared for the fact that it might only be a contract position - I wouldn't have applied if I wasn't and unfortunately its less common to be offered a permanent ongoing position anywhere these days. Again, a contract was not what I was ultimately hoping for, but I'm not complaining.

Qantas have only ever said that I'm on a short list for potentially a position in the future - so if nothing is forthcoming then disappointing yes, but this is always the risk when you apply for any job. I'll just apply again when they next advertise.

[JonBoy80]

I really hope you ALL make it and do what you have always wanted to do. Ozskipper is their any way of calling them and asking them, what is going on Or do they have an answering machine. ?

[QANTASTIC]

WOW ..Its good to see that people are positive out there !! I guess what I am trying to say again this is a RUMOUR FORUM and generally things that get posted here are rumer !! Sure some things might be true butr not all !! Not that I have my head in the clouds .. We haven all people told of what will happen to the shortlisters that are left over. If and only if we do get thrown of the list there is not much we can do !! I guess I am happy I have a full time job and do enjoy working in the role that I am doing at the moment but like my friend said they are till on track to comence recruitmant in ju/jul !! Why would they throw us of the short list and then start over agin !! WHY SPEND THE MONEY !!! People stay positve !! What will be will be will be !! Lets face it if they decide to have a crew in Lon and akl and BKK Jet start in australia I guess the people who should be worried is the curent crew !! Lets stop and think about their jobs !!
STAY POSITIVE

[Dondi]

I was with a friend who works with a Qantas subsiduary on May 19th when they received the call from QF HR offering a 10 month contract. An hour later, they were called back to say HR had made a mistake. Another hour went by and yet another phone call - this time informing them there will be a round of offers to be made by the end of May for permanent Longhaul. How can you trust them? It must be so infuriating having your hopes raised and dashed so many times!!! Let's hope someone has some definite good news to post over the next week!!!

[QANTASTIC]

Thanks for that info Dondi !! It just goes to show how things can change not only in a matter of days but hours !! I guys gus this is the last week and I am sure we are all feeling a little nervouse !!
Again I have heard so many things in the last couple of days !! People contacting me to tell me what they have heard !! I have tried to remain positive...some days have been good and yet some days i fell like i am over it. I am sure the other shortlisters what know what I am trying to say !! Since this is the last week I would like to say a big thankyou to all on this forum..for all the information weather it has been positive or negative. It goes to show that even on here it helps knowing there are other people in the same situation and that are feeling like i am !! I am not even going to bother posting any goss here today !! All I wanted to say was GOODLUCK guys and remember out paths have already being written..........GOOD LUCK AND HOPE WE WILL ALL BE TOGETHER SOON IN THE TRAINING SCHOOLS !!

[Marsha Brady]

Hi guys, just to let you all know that I to have been on the short list for Qantas also, since early year. I to got a extended e-mail, till 28 of May.. So time is ticking. Will keep all posted.. I have not yet got a letter. Keep smiling guys..:)

[cloud nine]

PERMANENT Longhaul???? What the?

Dondi, which subsidary does your friend work for?

Thats very strange that HR called your friend back to advise that. Why wouldn't HR just offer it then and there? Saves another phone call.

I will beleive this when and if I get the phone call. Till then, I beleive that we are going to receive the thanks but no thanks letter.:{

[MelbGirl]

What's going on guys...there's been not much chitter chatter on here today. Less than 4 days till it's D-day. I wonder what's going to happen and when/if they will offer anyone the 10 month contract.

How many people have 'expressed interest' in the contract?

Stay positive peoples...it's not over till it's over.

good luck to us all!



:O :ok:

[AIRBUST]

Agree Melbourne girl.

I feel like a child who has been handed candy and told not to eat it yet! I too am from Melbourne. I hope we hear soon.

The recent posts are interesting about offering permanent positions. I will believe it when i see it. I accepted the offer for 10 months so i hope they take me. I wonder if we will have to complete another interview as well as security and/or medical?

Anyone with any gossip? This wait is killing me!

[Q-Tee]

Mark Hassell ( the General Manager Cabin Crew) was at an upline forum last week in Singapore, he said that the increased flying would be catered for by increasing productivity and efficiencies by the current staffing levels ---- that we have 'the perfect amount of crew' for our current and near future flying needs , and that there are no plans for recruitment in longhaul.

He also basically said the London Base will go ahead, that current Aussie based crew would be offered secondments there (rather than hiring new crew from the UK), but on 'different' conditions. I couldnt afford to live there on my current wages and conditions, let alone 'different' ones :hmm:

No-one mentioned contract positions, so that may still be happening.

I beleive MAM will be recruiting in late June for casual shorthaul positions.

[leemo]

Q-Tee,

Had EP's today (emergency procedures 6 monthly training) and an EP trainer told me they have been told to expect 300 or so new recruits for training in initial EP's. He didn't know if they were going to be long / short haul casual / contract or permanent.

Mark Hassell has been saying he has 'right sized' the cabin crew numbers recently but obviously this isn't right otherwise they wouldn't be asking crew to cancel leave / work on days off etc. They are desperately short of crew yet again!!

As for the London base, the FAAA have not agreed to any increase in the cap on o/s crew (as agreed in the legal binding EBA). I don't think the company would have any luck attracting crew to the London base unless the t+c's are very favourable.

Time will tell but I think its just Mark pulling info from 'thin air' as he seems to be quite good at!!

Hope those on the waitlist get a call v. soon.

[Elle]

I received an email today from MAM saying that they are seeing people for possible casual FA positions early June. Not sure if it's for that 10 month contract you are all talking about.

I wish you all luck and I hope you don't keep getting the run around and know what is going to happen once and for all.

Best of luck all

[RaverFlaver]

Found this on the MAM website......

Maurice Alexander Management's Aviation Support Services has been chosen to provide Casual Flight Attendants to Qantas. MAM are now looking for people to join its operations in Melbourne, Sydney and
Brisbane as MAM Casual Short Haul Flight Attendants for the Qantas account.

Not sure how long it has been there or if it is recent.

Anyway,

Best wishes,

Raver :)

[jasmin]

I would assume that if the London base goes ahead (???) then if it enables crew to transfer ( on same terms and conditions) then they may have a few who would like to do it- otherwise they will do the same as other foreign airlines which have crew based in UK and have separate terms and conditions similar to UK cabincrew counterparts. If that is the case and it all goes ahead....they will have no problems recruting for a London base, so long as applicants hold EU passports ( ie. Any UK/Europe citizen could apply).

[joni girl]

Hi RaverFlaver,

That info on the MAM websight is not new it has been there for quite awhile.

[QANTASTIC]

Its like the calm before the storm !! only 3 days to go before we get told anything !! I guess it is good so far as they QF would have already mailed us the thanks but no thanks letters!! It is interesting that not all the externals have received the call re the interest for the 10 month contracts.. This is going to be a hard three days!! goodluck !! I to have been told by a friend who works in crewing that qf are realy realy short staffed and with everybody being overworked there is a lot of people calling in sick !!! everybody you speak to says somthing has to be done soon ..Lets keep the posts going !! chats soon!! I to have been told what leemo has been advised !! Its as per usual the right hand dose not know what the left one is doing !! AGAIN!!

[Iguanahead]

MAM have been emailing registered applicants for interest in an Assessment Centre process.

The email says they are conducting a recruitment process in the next 2 weeks for possible future MAM oppportunities.

The form attached has to be sent back by 1400 hrs EST Thursday 27th. Which seems very urgent don't you think as it was only received today at 1700?

Anyhow I think we can all see where this is heading. Good luck to all who apply.

[ozskipper]

A bit of trivia for all interested...

Geoff Dixon spoke today at the National Press Club and used the opportunity to raise the prospect of outsourcing more positions to overseas locations and to express his concern about the 49% foreign ownership rule.

He indicated that these issues need to be debated and given consideration to ensure the long term profitability of the airline.

He also indicated that based on current figures an estimated $25M could be saved if a particular staff group were located in a first world country with first world pay & conditions (presumably he's talking about FA's in London).

The media (especially the ABC) has given the concept a bit of a caning mentioning that QF is one of the most profitable airlines and that its the flag carrier for Australia and it already has outsourced approximately 350 jobs to other countries.

The ASU (and presumably the FAAA will also) have come out swinging accusing Dixon of trying to soften up employee's for the next round of EBA negotiations....

I tried to find a transcript on the National Press Club website, but its not up there (yet)....

Anyway, this is stuff everyone pretty much knows, but on the bright side it seemed from the reports I heard that its not very popular with the media outlets.....

[AintNoMtnHiEnuff]

I am shortlisted - out of Mel - and got called last Thurs for the 10mth contract. Have heard nothing since.

I wanted to clarify a few points about the contract and tried to call QF HR today but couldn't be put through without a name of the HR person that called me!

I think her name was Louise or Amanda - or maybe I am just imaging things?

I wanted to ask (& will post answers when I have them) would those on the contract be offered permanent work if it becomes available during that 10mth contract?

Are the contractors able to accept casual work with another airline during that time.

Can anyone else remember who they spoke to?Louise or Amanda ?

[Q-Tee]

The contract positions (based on past ones) are full time, but for a set period of time .... you wont have time to work for another airline !!

And no, QF employees cannot work for another airline due to conflict of interest reasons, and confidentiality reasons ( I have asked before when enquiring about leave without pay). The only circumstance you are allowed to work for another carrier whilst employed by QF, is if you are seconded by QF to work for that carrier.

Hope this helps.



And as for 'unky-Geoff's' speech ..... when he was talking about outsourcing a particular group of staff, I believe he meant telephones sales/ Res ..... heading to India (as he called reference to Telstra and the banks - thats whta they have done).

They are still saying the LHR base will be offered to current QF crew first .... but with lesser conditions, so I doubt many QF crew will apply to transfer there....

[QANTASTIC]

Well 2 days left !! And we know as much as we knew 2 months ago !! NOTHING !! ozskipper !!!! I to have read the talk at the press club in Canbera that Mr DIXON had. I have read the whole thing Q-tee and I double checked and it realy had no refrence to telephone sales. I guess reading it you can take it any way you like. I feel it was heading towards more the crew jobs as there is a lot of talk as you know youreslf with crewing going of shore !! I belive the last figuers i read they would save at least 13million dollers by having a london base. I to have heard a lot of crew are not interested going to London however I belive QF are already in the process of going full steam ahead with it!! Also stong talks witht he LA base. I guess what I am trying to say is that in 1 year the crew as we know it today will not be operating as it is now !! Its sad but as my friend pointed it out JAL have local crew at home and a base in LON contracters as well as Cathay and I belive SQ are planning to do the same !! So if anyone has anything to loose it is the current crew with the overnight slips in europe. My friend tells me the plan is all long haul crew would only fly to points in asia and the lon crew would take over from there !! Not much flying is there after all these changes ! Sad but true ! My question is WHY ISNT the UNION doing anything !! They are letting QF getting away with murder and exporting current jobs os !! I guess if we dont hear anything the long term plan is beciuse the current crew might not have jobs either ! Gussing thats why they only want 10month contracts !! Any thoughts !!

[Wirraway]

Thurs "Sydney Morning Herald"

Qantas plan to shift 25pc of cabin crews overseas
By Cosima Marriner and Scott Rochfort
May 27, 2004

Qantas is planning to base a quarter of its international cabin crew in London from next year to save on hotel and meal costs, a leaked internal document reveals.

The cabin crew "resource planning" document emerged hours after Qantas's chief executive, Geoff Dixon, publicly argued for sending more of the airline's jobs offshore, but denied any decisions had been made.

Mr Dixon told the National Press Club that Qantas "would be a lot more efficient" if it hired workers overseas. "No one wants to do this, but we're going to have to face up to it," he said.

Mr Dixon said there were "no specific plans at the moment" to boost Qantas's offshore workforce. "Right at the moment I've got nothing on my desk about it."

But the leaked document outlining staffing requirements for 2004-05 reveals the airline's "target" to eventually base 25 per cent - or 840 - of its international cabin crew overseas. Six per cent of Qantas's 35,000 employees are now based overseas, including 350 flight attendants.

Mr Dixon said he would discuss the issue with 250 managers next Tuesday and then meet union representatives.

The leaked document says Qantas plans to hire 150 crew on eight-month contracts by August "to bridge the gap" until its London base is established.

The plans appear to breach the agreement Qantas signed with unions two years ago to cap the number of cabin crew based at its two existing overseas bases - Bangkok and Auckland - at 370.

The Flight Attendants Association said Qantas's Bangkok-based crew are paid 20 per cent, and its Auckland based-crew 60 per cent, of the wages of their Australian counterparts.

The association said it was "absolutely outraged" by the plans. "We've been talking to the company in the past few weeks about a London base," the head of its international division, Michael Mijatov, said.

"What Qantas management told us was that no decision had been made. If they don't give us an absolute answer we'll be calling meetings with our members to discuss this issue."

In his press club speech, Mr Dixon said offshore employment was a "sensitive" issue but it was inevitable that Qantas would shift more jobs overseas as part of efforts to maintain its international competitiveness.

"We're so far away from the rest of the world, Qantas would be a lot more efficient by sourcing labour from other areas than we do," he said. "We've resisted this and we continue to resist this as long as we can get the necessary savings in Australia, there will be times when we have to."

He said Qantas could save $20 million a year if it moved 400 workers from one of the airline's larger divisions overseas to a developed country.

It is believed he was referring to plans to base some cabin crew overseas, which would cut hotel and meal allowance expenses for crew rested in long-haul destinations. Mr Dixon refused to quantify how many Qantas staff he would like based overseas. Nor would he estimate how much money the company could save with more offshore staff.

===========================================

Thurs "The Australian"

[b]Qantas offshore job plan
By Steve Creedy and Sophie Morris
May 27, 2004

QANTAS is considering sending one in four long-haul flight attendant jobs overseas – up to 1020 positions in total – in a cost-cutting bid that has incensed unions.

Internal Qantas documents obtained by The Australian suggest the airline could send up to an additional 650 jobs overseas as part of a plan, codenamed Hawaii, believed to involve a base in London. An agreement with the union already allows it to hire 370 overseas flight attendants.

News of the proposal angered the Flight Attendants Association of Australia, which could not rule out industrial action during enterprise bargaining later this year.

FAAA international assistant secretary Michael Mijatov accused Qantas executives "of padding their own pockets at the expense of Australian employment".

The union was also upset at what it believed was a plan to employ 150 flight attendants on fixed-term contracts and dump them when offshore jobs came on line, he said.

"We're outraged if this document is true," Mr Mijatov said.

"Qantas . . . in the public arena trades on its being on an Australian carrier – how dare it even use the words Spirit of Australia?" It presently employs 330 foreign flight attendants.

Yesterday's leaked document indicates Qantas employs 3756 long-haul flight attendants but it projects this to rise to 4072 by next March.

If that happens, the airline's 25 per cent "target" would equate to 1018 jobs.

The document emerged after Qantas chief executive Geoff Dixon warned at the National Press Club in Canberra that the airline needed to send more jobs offshore to remain competitive in a "psychoid" global aviation market.

Mr Dixon confirmed last night that the issue was under consideration but said no decision had been made "on any offshore employment for any area of Qantas".

"I intend to discuss this issue and the challenges facing Qantas with 250 senior managers at a meeting next Tuesday," Mr Dixon said.

"I then intend to meet with all the unions represented at Qantas and representatives of the ACTU to take them through all the issues, including consolidation and offshore employment."

Mr Dixon told the Press Club that labour was the airline's most expensive outlay and said employing offshore was the best way to cut costs.

He said moving 400 jobs to a First World country, offering First World salaries and conditions - believed to be a reference to the London plan - could save Qantas more than $20million a year.

But Mr Mijatov said it would deprive Australians of a chance of a job with Qantas.

"The Australian taxpayers built this company and the Australian government paid off their debt at the time of privatisation. If this is the thanks they think they owe to the community, I think they've absolutely got their priorities wrong."

============================================

[JonBoy80]

After reading that article, all I have to say is "Good luck" and remmember their are other airlines hiring at the moment, without monthly contracts.. :)

[QANTASTIC]

Hi Guys !! It been a little quite on this thread !! I thought afte todays news there would be lots of news!! Well We have reached thursday and no news yet.. I say since there hass been no letters in the mail that we can only expext good news.. I have howeder heard not sure how true ...... That once they QF have the Lon base up and running in LON that they are going to get a lot of the domestic short haul crew doing the reginal flying.. They are being trained on this in the next couple of minths. I was told it very obviouse that they are wanting to squeeze the long haul crew completly as the labour costs are different to the short haul crew.. I do however find it amazing that the union hasent already called meetings even after todays info seesion from QF . I guess they are wanting the 8-10 month contract for long haul to cover the shortage until they have about 1020 crew set up in lon !! interesting times ahead .. Like my friend said that flys long haul he is a CSM .."the good times with long haul with QF are going to be gone very soon" I hope everybody sticks together and makes sure they get a fait deal with the company !! Any thoughts?? Well lets see what Friday brings !! over and out!

[SocialFlyer]

Hi Guys,

Just wanted to wish all you guys on the QF shortlist good-luck tomorrow. As I understand your shortlist is due to expire tomorrow, hence expecting some response. My fingers are crossed for all of you, as I have followed the emotional roller coaster you have all been through and know you deserve this more than anything.

Let's hope we can soon change the title of this thread to
"QF HAS HIRED FROM THE SHORTLIST ":eek: !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Good-Luck and please kep us all posted....

SocialFlyer:ok:

[Elle]

Good luck Guys and Girl. I wish you all the best!!!

[GalleyHag]

27 May 2004

Attention all Qantas Long Haul Flight Attendants
OVERSEAS BASES
On April 8 and April 27, 2004 the FAAA communicated to members, the rising speculation that Qantas intended to establish an overseas base in London with about 350-400 cabin crew employed overseas under inferior wages and conditions.

Recent media reports and a detailed Qantas staffing plan, confirm that the company’s plans for overseas bases go much further than the establishment of a London Base.

The national media reports indicate that Qantas now intends to move to a position where 1 in 4 cabin crew jobs will be moved off-shore. This move will have major ramifications for current Qantas cabin crew as well as young Australians hoping to one day get a job with Qantas.

Existing wages and conditions will come under threat as cheaper overseas labour provides an economic incentive for Qantas to drive down local wages and conditions and continue to shift more and more Australian jobs overseas. Of course with the constant threat of moving more jobs overseas the bargaining power of cabin crew is weakened.

The FAAA believes that the establishment of these new overseas bases will also affect the rosters and flying offered to Australian based crew. It is likely the great majority of European flying will be performed by overseas-based crew if Qantas are successful in establishing the London base. In the future if Qantas succeeds in implementing its stated target of 25% overseas-based crew, the rosters and flying offered to Australian based crew will continue to decrease.

The Qantas plan also outlines the company’s intention to shift more and more regional flying to the Qantas Short Haul Division. This means Qantas Long Haul crew are getting squeezed from both ends.

The company has also recently confirmed they intend to offer 150 fixed term contracts to Australian based crew for a period of 8 months. The company indicated this was to cover a spike in flying. However, the company plan explicitly says that this is a stop-gap measure to cover extra available flying until the London base comes on line. When the overseas base comes on line the FAAA believes that Qantas will move these jobs overseas and the hopes of a career with Qantas will be dashed for 150 Australian Workers

The FAAA intends to fight the establishment of these new overseas bases with all means available to us. In the very near future the FAAA will be calling meetings of all members and encourage crew to become involved in fighting this career threatening move by Qantas.

In the meantime we intend to continue the media campaign to inform the Australian public of the move by Qantas to de-Australianise this Australian Icon. Cabin crew can also have their say on the move by Qantas to shift 1 in 4 cabin crew jobs overseas by email on [email protected]



This newsletter was written and authorised by Michael Mijatov, Divisional Secretary - International

[SocialFlyer]

The Qantas plan also outlines the company’s intention to shift more and more regional flying to the Qantas Short Haul Division. This means Qantas Long Haul crew are getting squeezed from both ends.

Guys, excuse my lack of understanding but what exactly does this mean?

Cheers

[Left2primary]

Socialflyer

It means that the shorthaul division [domestic FA's] have alterered their conditions in the last EBA to allow them to fly regional international ops around asia.

At the moment this flying is being and has always been done by QF international crew and is very popular as it offers respite from living much of ones life in a fog of perpetual sleep deprived jetlag.

Oh, it also enables longhaul FA's to maintain relationships/families by giving them a break from 9,10 and 12 day trips.

Rumor has it that in the domestic's rush to take this" family friendly" international flying they forgot to negotiate satisfactory slipping formulas, hotel standards, allowances,crew rest and flight duty limitations.

L2P

[ozskipper]

So where will Long Haul FA's be flying to in the future? If LHR is potentially out and presumably other European destinations and then Australasian flying is done by Short Haul - whats left? American flights?

[yellow rocket]

You can blame Lesley Grant, not Dicko for this.

Lesley introduced a London base for Air New Zealand crew during the 90s. Saved NZ $25m per annum in hotel and allowance payments.

Lesley, unsustainable full service budgets, and arrogance, nearly killed the Koru, they are not going to work at QF either.

[GalleyHag]

Even though we have been aware of Qantas' plan to extend the overseas bases I am appalled at the size of the plan and where this leaves people in Australia that wish to pursue a career as a flight attendant with Qantas.

The options for Australians wishing to work for Qantas long haul seem to be move to Auckland, get an EU or Thai passport and move to London or Bangkok and work for a Swiss labour hire company, or get the odd fixed term position when QF need some crew to fill the void from time to time.

Domestically work as a casual for the rest of your career through an Australian labour hire company.

I appreciate that Qantas needs to make money and shareholders want to see a return on their investment, however how much is enough and at what cost.

What can we do as crew and potential cabin crew? Anyone have any ideas or do we just sit back and let it all happen? I'm short haul crew but what is happening to long haul will have a flow on effect to all cabin crew within the QF group and who's to say QF wont consider overseas bases to crew short haul regional flights in the future. We can already see the effects of Qantas strategy to employ only casuals in short haul and how this has impacted on regional progression as an example.

Like ozskipper I would be interested to know where exactly will long haul crew be flying in the future and what sort of life will they have, only time will tell.

[DUCKS]

I agree with GH that Australian passport holders have limited options for working with QF.

I call Adeco NZ yesterday to get information on recrutiment for QF and was told that interviews were being held yesterday and today and that if I could get myself to Auckland in the next 24 hours I could attend the walk-in interviews. When I asked if they advertised these interviews in Aust the relpy was no and that QF only gives them a weeks notice to hold interviews. Not giving people from outside of AKL the opertunity of attend. Unless you already have days off or holidays organised.

It seems that QF do not want to give Australians a "fair go" at even getting a job anywhere in the world.

[Qwannas]

I have been reading this post from time to time, expecting to see a positive result - after everyone has been so patiently hanging in the wind for 18 months. (Reads: messed around)

I really hope (after all of this) that QF dont offer short term contracts to you poor things purely for the purpose of using you for strike breaking. (Personally, I dont doubt them being so cruel.) I find it all a little too ironic that these announcements/revelations for overseas bases come at the same time that the short list has come to the end of its extension. :suspect:

I'll just leave it at that for now, untill more news is delivered to you.

Thinking of you.

[GalleyHag]

Maybe I was wrong in my post above about regional progression. Just heard from a friend at Eastern that more regional prgression is happening but no details as yet does anyone else have details on it?

[SydGirl]

Hi GH,

The FAAA only today issued a notice stating...

"We are pleased to advise that on 28 May, 2004 your Association reached agreement with Qantas to allow permanent positions in the Short Haul Division to be offered to current regional flight attendants.

The number of positions will be as follows:

Eastern Australia 15
Sunstate Airlines 9

Please note that the bases to be offered is still to be determined by Qantas.

The timing of the offers is also still to be determined between the relevant airlines.

As further details become available, members wil be updated accordingly."

Good news for those on the progression list though now the question remains... where and when!

SG
:D

[GalleyHag]

Thanks for the info SydGirl.

Finally some good news after all the doom and gloom of the past few days. I am very, very pleased that QF are looking after the regional crew.

Now lets see some positive news from QF for the shortlisters!!

[Mr Seatback 2]

Further to the above update re:FAAA Career Progression...

Jetstar crew will receive 8 positions, in addition to those listed above for Eastern and Sunstate.

[AIRBUST]

:ugh:
Has anybody heard, been offered anything? Today is D day. They said they would get back to us today. Does this mean we wake up tomorrow and our dreams and hard work was for nothing? I am sick with anticipation of the outcome to the telephone call I received last Monday 17/05/04.

I will remain positive as last time we expired 31st March they where several days late.

Has anybody got any news?
Keep posting.
Warm Regards,
AIRBUST:confused:

[cloud nine]

My calendar says 28th May, what does QF's say?

Heard **** diddly twot! :* :* :*

[ozskipper]

Nah, I haven't heard anything either..... Thought that there might be something in the email box, but have arrived home and found zip....

I must admit I'm not that surprised - I had an inkling we wouldn't hear anything today - I suspect next week we'll be contacted one way or another.....

[GalleyHag]

Mr Seatback 2

How funny for those poor Impulse people (im assuming the 8 would be original Impulse). Another uniform and even more aircraft to study not to mention service training.

Great to see Jetstar are also coming does that mean you and Ditzyboy will be over here soon?

As we know career progression is only activated when external permanent recruitment occurs, does that mean it has or will be anyone know? Maybe the shortlisters will be contacted about permanent short haul positions. Or is QF finally realising how stupid that clause is in the progression document.

[QF skywalker]

Good news for Jetstar/Sunstate/Eastern Crew - FAAA update just issued today !


Short Haul Permanent Recruitment/Career Progression

We are pleased to advise that on 28 May, 2004 your Association reached agreement with Qantas to allow permanent positions in the Short Haul Division to be offered to current regional flight attendants.

The number of positions will be as follows:

Eastern Australia 15
Sunstate Airlines 9

Please note that the bases to be offered is still to be determined by Qantas.

The timing of the offers is also still to be determined between the relevant airlines.

As further details become available, members wil be updated accordingly.

[AIRBUST]

Galley Hag, maybe the media shake up has made QF think again. If what you say is part of the EBA re progression and external recruitment, do you think they maybe about to ask shortlists to be permanant? Could this be causing the delay? What's your gut feeling ?
Thanks

[Mr Seatback 2]

Right now GalleyHag, I don't think our 8 progressee's to Short Haul would mind AT ALL about changing uniforms and learning more aircraft.

Our more senior crew (those that have been around from the start - like these 8) are not too happy about the Jetstar thing. Not because of anything particular, but they see it as going 'backwards' from what they were offering until last week.

These are the guys who want to give away free food, drinks, have legroom, allocated seating, etc. Because they've already DONE the low cost thing before, I think it's fair to say they're over it and want to go back to the 'full service' aspect of flying. Which I can understand.

Ditz will transfer ahead of me - he's WAY senior girlfriend!! :p I'll be down the list for some time - but I'm happy. This whole low cost thing is new to me, so I'll go with it for now!

Remains to be seen who will go across, particularly our SEQ crew, who will do anything to stay in QLD.

[QANTASTIC]

Hi all !! good to hear from you Mr Seatback 2 !! So what does the latest news mean to everybody ! More so to the curent crew that have applied as externals but work for sunstate jetstar and eastern?? Has anybody got any idea !! Plus now with this happening does anyone have any idea with what might happen with the internals s the externals look as they might be going to long haul 10 month contracts ! ANy thoughs??

[ozflyboy]

I wonder when we will hear ANYTHING?? Especially after the calls last week......

Have heard both positive and negative ideas from those in the know on the whole 10 month thing.....maybe there is a reason they are making us wait - could go either way i suppose!

Anyway guys, we are nearly there one way or another......what a ride it has been!

Good luck ppl!

Oz xox

[GalleyHag]

AIRBUST

Regional prgression has always been based on permanent external recruitment. However, recently Qantas took regionals into the Perth short haul base when there was no permanent recruitment therefore maybe the precedent has been set. No one is aware of any permanent positions being offered to external applicants off the short list but regional progression has been confirmed maybe this is the way of the future if you want a permanent position with Qantas short haul.

Mr Seatback 2

I highly doubt Jetstar crew will get a QLD base being Brisbane. QF Skywalker maybe able to confirm this but the Sunstate girls and boys have never been offered Brisbane it has always been Melbourne until recently where Perth was offered for the first time. But you never know. But the last time I looked at the transfer list there is a lot of current crew based in Sydney and Melbourne that are trying to get a Brisbane base so they have to slot in after these people after they complete ground school. I dont know how long the Sunstate crew have had to wait in the past before getting back to Brisbane.

[Mr Seatback 2]

You're right GalleyHag...me thinks there will only be a handful of eligible crew who from QLD who would take up Progression, given the UNLIKELIHOOD of ever getting a BNE base.

As you mentioned, Sunnies crew have had to do without for a while re: Brissy base. Ours may well consider their options and see what becomes available to them.

But - with QF - you never know do you?!

[yellow rocket]

Adecco is holding walk-in interviews in Auckland for AKL base L/H crew today.

[AIRBUST]

Well, I called QF HR today as I wanted to know where I was heading. The lady was friendly but unable to help with any information on our futures. She reconfirmed it was just an expression of interest re: the telephone call regarding 10 months contract. I asked about the expiry date and what will happen to us. She replied that QF management have not made any decisions and that shortlisters will still be considered at this stage.

What is happening?
It seems a tail spin has been created with the leak of the document re London base.
I still hold hope. Time will only tell. I guess I wasn't told any negative news.

[Bodum]

Galley Hag..

The 6 regional crew who transferred over to Perth were actually linked to external recruitment that took place for the opening of Perth Base on April 1 2003. Their transfers should have been actioned at the same time, however they were not actioned until a year later in April 2004!

The regional transfer school prior to this one that started FEB 2003 based in Melbourne, should have also started earlier in 2002, when Qantas recruited externally on a permanent basis in 2002.

The current transfer schools still seem to be running about a year behind where they should be.

Why this is, I dont know :confused:

Hope this helps :O

[QANTASTIC]

Well Monday has past !! With no Email of further extensions and no mail to say thanks but no thanks ! Lets keep focused on the prize and be positive !! Like always through out my posts I said had they wanted us of the list they could have sent us a letter already to say GOODBY !! Lets hang in there and keep positive !!!
How is everybody feeling??? Take and chat soon !!

[GalleyHag]

Rather than start a new thread this ad appeared in the Sydney Morning Herald on Saturday 29/5/04.

Sydney, NSW Full Time

Flight Attendants
QantasLink, operating as Eastern Australia Airlines is a wholly owned subsidiary of Qantas and operates a fleet of modern Dash-8 aircraft on scheduled services throughout South-Eastern Australia. We are currently recruiting Flight Attendants to join our dynamic team based in Sydney. If you have a proven track record of providing exceptional customer service and possess the communication and interpersonal skills to deal with a varied range of customer needs in a professional and friendly manner, please go the Eastern Australia Airlines section of www.cabincrew.staffcv.com and apply. We only accept on-line applications.

Reference No: 153969 Sector: Logistics, Transport & Supply
Date posted: Saturday, 29/05/2004 Sub-Sector: Transport

[SydGirl]

Nearly choked when I read the line "fleet of modern Dash-8 aircraft" !!!!!!!!!! *cough splutter*

Huge recruitment happening at Eastern, to cover progression as well as delivery of another 300 series aircraft.

SG
:}

[cloud nine]

Choke? Ha ha ha, didn't we all.;)

Well...I guess they were "modern" in there day. :E :E :E

[ozflyboy]

Well, into June and nothing.....I guess the waiting could be due to the whole o/s basing thing - sounds like no firm decision made on that.....yet! Very intersting also to see the ad for Eastern - expecting some movement there by the looks of it - lets hope it is because they are progressing regionals due to permanent external recruitment!!

Have a look a Wirraway's post in D&G reporting points - 2 interesting articles relating to the o/s base.......maybe we'll know more after the meeting Geoff is having today......

Still keeping everything possible crossed for all of us guys!

Oz xox

[QANTASTIC]

Well Tuesday is gone !! Still no news !! No email no letter no phone call !! I would hope something will happen this week !!
I have heard the regionals are getting trained in the next couple of weeks!! Also 50 long haul crew being transferd to short haul !!
I wonder when they will tell us when we start ????? Are all the externals going to the MAM assesmant days in Syd and Mel !!
Well Time is ticking and If your external and have nothing to loose by being casuel why not do !! Has there been any other news around the network?? LIKE ANY NEWS???

[QANTASTIC]

Its Thursday night and I havent had a chance to look at tje new postings !! I cant understand why we havent HEARD ANYTHING ...
From the sound of it I thought QF where planning a big recruitment drive..Well I guess I was wrong..They (qf)seem to be doing a big MAM drive !! Has anybody heard like ..anything?? I cant belive there has been no goss or news of any type..I am wondering by not hearing ANYTHING if this is good or bad news!! We havent got any letters so one can assume that we still must be in a good position of hearing somthing??? LEt hope to get a call at least before the weekend!! HAng in there guys!!

[cloud nine]

It would be nice just to know if we are on or off the waitlist. :ugh:

[Flying_Sarah747]

Hmm, I was really hoping for an e-mail from Qantas by now! I haven't been called by them, but that could be cause they dont have any of my details over here in London...I think I should change that.

So those of you who have been called, was it for a fixed term Long Haul 10 month contract?????? I REALLY REALLY REALLY want to come home, but I can't leave a full time cabin crew job with British Airways for a job that's not garanteed to be around after 10 months. :(

[Cart_tart]

Yeah. It would be common courtesy to contact us and let us know where we stand. They're rude and unprofessional. I'm offically over it!

[QANTASTIC]

Guys hope you have had a great weekend !! I am positive for us shortlisters..I know its fustrating but hang in there ! We have waiting this long another couple more days wont hurt!! I belive we will all be advised some time this week!! This came from a good source !! So lets hope its not more gossip but for a change a fact !! Goodluck and hope to read some positive posts from us shortlisters !! Lets face it !! If they are conducting MAM interviews why woulnt some of the externals be offerd casuel positions !! All crossed and feel positive !! Lets not loose sight of why we applied for this job !! AS always no letter in the mail as yet!! So it must be good!!

[jodiev1980]

Hi Everyone

Does anyone have a link to the MAM website? For the life of me I can't find it.

Thanx

[littlemissmel]

www.mam.net.au

[Cart_tart]

Is it a public holiday today in the eastern states too??

[Q-Tee]

Have any of you actually called Recruitment to see if anything has changed? If not, I would presume that their letter stating that the Short-list ending on the 28th May would be confirmation that your time on the shortlist has ended? Maybe you should put yourselves out of your misery and call them to see what is going on? Thats what I would do.

[QANTASTIC]

Thanks for the advise Q-Tee !! This has already been done by managment and the response has been "We are still on the short list until you receive a letter in the mail !We have a lot of issue to resolve and therefore we will be advised maybe this week as to what they will do with the externals and internals"
So again thanks Q-tee and no we shouldnt assume that our waitlisted as droped of !!

[JonBoy80]

NExt week you will be saying the same thing qantastic." we should hear something this week, and then again the following week "we should hear something this week.".. Call them and just be straight forward and say "when are we going to start our training".. C'mon, dont rely on other gossip. Just do it urself